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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Crazy on September 18, 2011, 04:31:31 pm

Title: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Crazy on September 18, 2011, 04:31:31 pm
At the moment, town control is mainly a TDM with a small reward, though the militia (that so much guys want to remove, because they only see the TDM aspect) add a bit of something else and allow winners to actually stay in the town. Though, I do think that few things should be added, to make this feature more interesting (as domination mode and new crafting locations will probably take it's place as the main battlegrounds), and it would allow to make a real difference when different gangs own a town. Some of these suggestion have been made before, but remind to dev they have been made can't be bad.


Radios

In Redding (and in BH as well), a GM spawned many radio on same channel at unreachable places everywhere in the town, which allow to spread informations and propaganda. I think it's a very good idea, and all TC towns should have those radios, automatically set on the channel of the faction controlling the town.
Second thing : militia should alert on this radio when attacked (more exactly : when one militia is killed, or radio will be spamed by bluesuits punching it). A message like « Badguy 657 is attacking the town ! » would appear, alerting everyone of who is attacking.


Laws

Militans are now close to mindless mercenaries, that attack only when attacked or when a member of faction owning the town attack (they should also protect the friends of the faction). But the members of controlling factions should be able to decide which laws are applied in the town by the militia, through dialogs with the mayor. Those laws would be :
Visible weapons allowed (or not)
Killing allowed (or not)
Stealing allowed (or not)
There could be also an option to make people pay a certain amount of money (decided by gang, for example 1000 caps per hour) to be protected by the militians (only if they are attacked of course, and not against member of the faction, so it's up to the wastelander to decide if they can trust them or not).


Billboard

Each TC town should have a billboard at the entrance, with written the gang controlling the city, the laws currently on, and a custom message written by owners of the town.


Militia

First, it shouldn't be possible to add mercenaries to militia, because it allow too much abusing tactics.
Second, they should loot the bodies of people they kill (only those they kill themselves), half would go in TC locker, the other half in the merchants of the town stocks, decided randomly (because if you kill someone using militia, militia will claim payment).


Caravans

Finally, to create interactions between towns, you could, each IRL day, decide by talking to the mayor to send a caravan of resources (gold in redding, uranium in BH...) to another town, sacrificing a part of your income to increase the income of this other town (the boost being bigger than the malus). It would be fixed commercial routes :
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: avv on September 18, 2011, 04:58:25 pm
Those are all good suggestions.

What I'm personally missing are activities inside towns. Something that keeps players inside so that they don't feel the need to go to worldmap and do previews. Currently most unsafe towns got shops and gathering locations but all those are just waypoints where players visit briefly and then go away. There needs to be places in towns where players actually spend time rather than visit briefly.

Example of spending time are caravan packing and shit shovelling but they are so unproductive and boring that it's basically nothing.

You can also camp the militia and shoot everyone who comes in, might get some loot but it's bad for gameplay because less and less player will eventually come.


Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Grommok on September 18, 2011, 05:28:16 pm
Like this.
The only i want to tell somethin' about are caravans.
Caravans cannot stop. They will keep doin' their work. You can "regulate" how many caravans can exit-enter your town, not stop'em.
You can try to "stop them" with a series of laws, actually damaging economy in the wastes (bonus for your town, so you can have a sort of "economical advantage" by selling your resource manually, without income being stealed by caravans) but in the same time this could lead to the "Black Market" phenomena (malus, this makes you gain less loot in the TC chest, and maybe makes people in town/militia weaker).
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: HertogJan on September 19, 2011, 10:06:49 am
I like the suggestions.

Quote from: Crazy on September 18, 2011, 04:31:31 pm
Caravans

Finally, to create interactions between towns, you could, each IRL day, decide by talking to the mayor to send a caravan of resources (gold in redding, uranium in BH...) to another town, sacrificing a part of your income to increase the income of this other town (the boost being bigger than the malus).

This one could be abusable by powerful factions and work like bank intrest for them. Especiall if they know how long the caravan takes so they can take the benefit spawn in the tc box shorty after.
To fix that, there are some possibilities:
- caravans leave at fixed times
- caravans can be encountered
- faction in control has to escort the caravan. If they die in ecounters or leave the caravan, they don't get a benefit but only the malus. Encounters should always be real-time
A combination of those options would mean that the faction escorting the caravan weakens their defense of 1 of their towns. Of course opposing factions wouldn't know when a caravan leaves, only the time it could leave.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Michaelh139 on September 19, 2011, 12:43:18 pm
Everything is good except for this:

Quote
First, it shouldn't be possible to add mercenaries to militia, because it allow too much abusing tactics.
 

How is this an abuse in any way?  You're paying 20-50 times more for the militiaman than just getting them from the sheriff but in return you can pick their weapon, and the choice of armor. 

More cash = more choice
less cash = roll the dice

It sounds pretty reasonable to me.  Besides next wipe we won't have the bank caps inflation so there won't be nearly as many caps to go around for a good while so you'll see less mercs.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Eternauta on September 19, 2011, 03:29:56 pm
Nice ones, Crazy! :D
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Grommok on September 19, 2011, 03:56:38 pm
Quote from: Michaelh139 on September 19, 2011, 12:43:18 pm
Everything is good except for this:
 

How is this an abuse in any way?  You're paying 20-50 times more for the militiaman than just getting them from the sheriff but in return you can pick their weapon, and the choice of armor. 

More cash = more choice
less cash = roll the dice

It sounds pretty reasonable to me.  Besides next wipe we won't have the bank caps inflation so there won't be nearly as many caps to go around for a good while so you'll see less mercs.
Maybe instead of "normal" mercs you could have a merc recruiter along with mayor/sheriff, so that you have the money you can hire also mercs to stay and protect the town, instead of having just militia. Obiviously militia would have to be nerfed.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: avv on September 19, 2011, 05:13:29 pm
Quote from: Michaelh139 on September 19, 2011, 12:43:18 pm
How is this an abuse in any way?  You're paying 20-50 times more for the militiaman than just getting them from the sheriff but in return you can pick their weapon, and the choice of armor.

So what, merc militia is too powerful. It can wipe out entire gangs in seconds. Players must be the main force to defend towns, not npcs. If the players aren't numerous or good enough to hold it, they don't deserve the town in first place.

3 guys with dual logs cap town when the owners are working/sleeping. They get some free slots for militia and when the original owners come with 10 guys, they face overpowering merc militia. Militia must never be stronger than its owners.

Quote
It sounds pretty reasonable to me.

It's not reasonable at all. With mercs and merc militia players can get overpowering force in their disposal just because they spent time farming outside the actual pvp event. Fights and superiority must be resolved in the battlefield, not in the farming grounds.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: T-888 on September 19, 2011, 06:59:11 pm
Quote from: Crazy on September 18, 2011, 04:31:31 pm

Militia

First, it shouldn't be possible to add mercenaries to militia, because it allow too much abusing tactics.
Second, they should loot the bodies of people they kill (only those they kill themselves), half would go in TC locker, the other half in the merchants of the town stocks, decided randomly (because if you kill someone using militia, militia will claim payment).


Something of this is actually good , you should lower the numbers since their AI is improved.

NPC wars have to end some of us are really tired of actually killing 30-35 NPC's(militia + mercs) before we get to shoot a player if we survive that long , screwing up good gameplay.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Michaelh139 on September 19, 2011, 11:59:08 pm
Quote from: avv on September 19, 2011, 05:13:29 pm
So what, merc militia is too powerful. It can wipe out entire gangs in seconds. Players must be the main force to defend towns, not npcs. If the players aren't numerous or good enough to hold it, they don't deserve the town in first place.

3 guys with dual logs cap town when the owners are working/sleeping. They get some free slots for militia and when the original owners come with 10 guys, they face overpowering merc militia. Militia must never be stronger than its owners.

It's not reasonable at all. With mercs and merc militia players can get overpowering force in their disposal just because they spent time farming outside the actual pvp event. Fights and superiority must be resolved in the battlefield, not in the farming grounds.
This is where you say:  "nerf them" instead of "remove".  Nerf the bonus gained by mercenaries when joining the militia.  Because yes, I do kind of agree an entire merc militia garrison is fucking brutal, despite paying shitloads more out of your pocket for the force, at least you will still be able to give specific weaponry, level them up, and pick armortype.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: kttdestroyer on September 20, 2011, 04:15:43 pm
Quote from: avv on September 18, 2011, 04:58:25 pm
What I'm personally missing are activities inside towns.

Yeah, In Redding the Malamute is not selling Beer. And the casino is useless (simple to make no? Just make the casino always win at the end of the day, like all real casino does). That would be a little start. The caravans are good ideas. Could be NPC driven even, meaning, the caravan would enter each time once 2 days or so, and stay in town for one hour (exept NCR, no point there), its up to the Faction controlling the town to make sure of two things 1. Load the caravan with as much gold as possible 2. Make sure the caravan gets to the destination, which would require to follow on the trip i gues.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Crazy on September 20, 2011, 04:45:20 pm
Quote from: kttdestroyer on September 20, 2011, 04:15:43 pm
1. Load the caravan with as much gold as possible 2. Make sure the caravan gets to the destination, which would require to follow on the trip i gues.

I thought about that: mix it up with "player driven caravans" idea, would be great but it seems rather hard to implement.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: avv on September 20, 2011, 06:24:26 pm
The thing with caravans are that they happen elsewhere than inside the town. It's not bad idea to have caravans but they aren't exactly in-town activities.

Good in-town activity would be something in which players could participate for as long as they want and benefit from it constantly. Take farming for example: you hunt encounters and seek items you desire and you can do it as long as you want. Towns needs something like that.

Ktt suggested casino, it's good idea. Player can gamble as long as he wants. Benefit is not guaranteed, but that's the point of it. But gambling for hours must get boring eventually, it can't be the only interaction.

Example would be a simple quest: find the jetsalesman. You get it from the sheriff and you're tasked to find an npc hiding somewhere in the city. He sells jet which hampers the town's mining activities. The npc can be anywhere in the town so you have to basically browse through it. Once you find the guy, you just waste him and tell the sheriff the job's done. For this you get some alright reward plus the town gets a small boost to its tc loot output.
After that the job is repeatable. If the player person dies while on a mission, the mission fails.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Crazy on September 20, 2011, 07:05:19 pm
Quote from: avv on September 20, 2011, 06:24:26 pm
The thing with caravans are that they happen elsewhere than inside the town. It's not bad idea to have caravans but they aren't exactly in-town activities.

Well, if a bunch of NPC appear and stay a while when a caravan start/reach destination, with maybe trading, and few quests, that will create some activity.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Rascal on September 20, 2011, 09:33:38 pm
remove mercs and militia from this game keep PvP = PvP not PvE (starcraft zergling mode)
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: kttdestroyer on September 20, 2011, 09:45:35 pm
Not sure, but it could also be intresting if everytown had a workbench for exemple, that would allow to craft a specific item, like 7.62 at Raiders. If this work bench would be somewhere in middle of each town, it would also encourage people to craft in towns rather then in bases (crafting in bases is a bit single player no? :) Maybe workbenches in bases should only allow crafting the most simple things?).

Or, maybe for exemple a sniper rifle crafted at Gecko would be special in a way that it has 1 more hexes range? Or 5% more chance to hit? While a Rocket Launcher crafted in Broken Hills could have +2 damage? Maybe a cattleprod crafted in Klamath could have more ammo capacity? And so on. I think it would allow towns to be uniqe more then Gold nuggets or Uranium ore, aswell it would make towns more usefull for people (right now acually they are not very usefull exept Traders and quest givers).
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Ganado on September 20, 2011, 10:22:55 pm
Solar said things like special workbenches are planned, but I don't think they are going to be in the middle of every town, like you said. It is going to be part of faction scenarios, I think. And what you say isn't much of an "activity", it will just have people camping the workbenches, and people running in and out of town as soon as they crafted the item.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: kttdestroyer on September 21, 2011, 01:38:16 pm
First step to activity is attracting people to the town. If they dont need to go into town, then they wont. And they will never meet new people.

Good exemple of this can be seen in Redding, where people come in, mine and go out, half of them stay in downtown waiting for cooldown however, in meantime they are waiting they sometimes trade or just hang out. Ingame social games would be one solution. Molerats fights in Redding maybe, where people can bet. The problem is as always, that 90% of actions a player can do is to attack the other player heh... Thats about interaction between two players.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: Grommok on September 21, 2011, 02:38:30 pm
Good idea, the bets and so on.
I would personally like, as suggested by someone else, the boxing matches, with both players fightin' and bettin'.
We could also add some "warzones", like Hinkley, around the world for team fightin'. Just for fun, or with minimal rewards.
Title: Re: TC improvements, or how to make of Town Control something else than TDM
Post by: avv on September 21, 2011, 03:04:59 pm
Quote from: kttdestroyer on September 21, 2011, 01:38:16 pm
Good exemple of this can be seen in Redding, where people come in, mine and go out, half of them stay in downtown waiting for cooldown however, in meantime they are waiting they sometimes trade or just hang out.

Yes but it's more profitable to either:
a: log into another alt and mine more
b: go farm encounters
c: manage base
d: level a new character

The town activities just have to be so good and reasonable that even the hardened powergamers want to participate. At the moment people like to be at Redding because they either have shitload of stuff and don't care or are so noobish they don't know what else to do.
In addition these activities must benefit the one who participates them but also the town owners. In the end the tc locker loot output could be directly reliant on the activities. Stuff shouldn't appear from nowhere.

Quote
The problem is as always, that 90% of actions a player can do is to attack the other player heh... Thats about interaction between two players.

This is true, that's why it's up to the town owners to keep up security and spread good reputation about safe town. For this they need tools.

Town owning chars should be marked with colour when intown so that towngoers don't get confused when someone comes and asks them some questions for example.
There needs to be new faction status called "customer" or "visitor. Those people are guarded by militia but cannot trigger it on people.