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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: VIVEK on August 07, 2011, 03:45:01 pm

Title: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: VIVEK on August 07, 2011, 03:45:01 pm
im talking ofcourse about the bow:

(http://www.scottishmist.com/assets/weapons/Bow_Arrow.jpg)

This weapon is ESSENTIAL, and should have been implemented in Fallout 2 from the beginning.

Let me explain what i had in mind concerning the bows, ammo and perks:

Tribal bow:
AP: 5 AP, 2 to reload
Damage: 14-18
Range: ~20
ST required: 5
Base price: 250 caps
Craftable by: 2 wood, 1 fiber, 40% something

Longbow (should resemble a bow used for sport around the year ~2000:)
AP: 5 AP, 2 to reload
Damage: 22-26
Range: ~35
ST required: 6
Base price: 7 caps
Craftable by: 1 Tribal bow, 1 metal parts, 60% something

Ammo would be:

;) Arrow
8) Armor piercing arrow
>:( Explosive arrow (yeah, i know, lets be careful here, it should never exceed the Rocket Launcher.. this isnt meant to be a top-tier weapon but should match weapons like a Combat Shotgun or a .223)

i'll let you guys nerd around with the modifier numbers and all that, since i have no idea.

Also, i figured there could be a perk called Robin Hood, going something like "Extensive traning with the bow and arrow has paid off, making you the fastest bowman around town - you now shoot your arrow and reload it with a new arrow automaticly in one motion, and therefor no longer need to use 2 AP's for reloading. You beast."

Also a perk that could be a alot of fun would be something like a perk where you receive a melee attack with the bow.

I dont know if this perk should be given on a level basis, like the other perks or if the player should be awarded with the perk after killing ~500 critters with a bow.

Not sure which skill this weapon should go under, im thinking Melee just to keep it tribal, and since Melee needs a boost anyways.

Gentlemen, discuss!
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Handyman on August 07, 2011, 04:04:11 pm
stop stealing my idea -.- suggested already man.

Damn this thread again.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: VIVEK on August 07, 2011, 04:13:33 pm
what, are you afraid im going to steal your credit? your little thunder? if you already suggested this, you should be happy i suggested it too since you obviously want this game in the game too.

some people, especially when on the internet, is just way too petty...
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Senrain on August 07, 2011, 04:14:16 pm
I don't think this should be in FOnline.

Firstly it's FAR too advanced for the FOnline universe and is simply too logical.

Second this would only fit into energy weapons, and that just doesn't make sense.

Not to mention brahmin poop already used explosive arrows.

Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 07, 2011, 04:28:48 pm
Well, after all tribals made spears, and cavemans invented bows. Since tribal are the "falloutish" equivalent (only sometimes) of cavesman, they should use bow too. What's up, passin' from a spear to a rocket launcher is normal, and from a spear to a bow not?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Ulrek on August 07, 2011, 05:10:47 pm
With guns so common, and the fact that the knowledge of bows was lost too, it's not that unlikely that bows wouldn't be to common.

Really i think the reason is that they didn't want to make a new sprite just for it, which i can understand, but it will be possible after 3D.

Oh, and while we're at it, blowguns existed, and i believe were a common thing in old jungle adventure movies, so if the tribals some how passed that down, then they might also make them, and if you really want fallouty weapons that tribals could make, make an upgrade for the pipe rifle, so that it shoots arrows like a musket.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Graf on August 07, 2011, 05:58:13 pm
Good suggestion, but as it was already said elsewhere, it's pretty much senseless until 3d is done, because there's no such animation among the sprites (or even something similar) which makes this weapon only visible to its owner. 
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: snailbeast on August 07, 2011, 06:03:27 pm
There is no such skill as "bows and Crossbows"
Thich skill should be used?

Does Longbow have "Long Range" perk?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Surf on August 07, 2011, 06:10:38 pm
It could be merged into the outdoorsmanskill (or make a similar one). But yes, Graf is right. I guess everyone would agree that it indeed is a good idea (although it's been suggested dozens of times), the real problem is the animation for them.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 07, 2011, 06:41:44 pm
outdoorsmanskill (or make a similar one).
Throwing-Meele, or otherwise also spear should go on outdoorsman
no such animation among the sprites
As always.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: avv on August 07, 2011, 07:03:58 pm
With guns so common, and the fact that the knowledge of bows was lost too, it's not that unlikely that bows wouldn't be to common.

This. Fallout world is full of guns and everyone knows how to make a firearm and ammo. I can't see why someone would like to use bow in such scenario.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Johnnybravo on August 07, 2011, 07:11:01 pm
Give boomerangs so we can roleplay feral kid from mad max :<.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Surf on August 07, 2011, 07:28:19 pm
This. Fallout world is full of guns and everyone knows how to make a firearm and ammo. I can't see why someone would like to use bow in such scenario.

You shouldn't mistake the FOnline with the Fallout world.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: snailbeast on August 07, 2011, 07:35:06 pm
I like general idea but I lack the "stribal weapons" skill... Why there is no such one in the first place?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Chrupek on August 07, 2011, 07:39:12 pm
First thing: 2APs for reloading is a joke:]
Imagine how long does it take to take arrow from your back, put into bow, and then strike. It should be like 4APs or something... however:
thats the point - if you have bow ready to shoot, it should take less APs for shooting, around 3 i guess. The advantage of bow is when is loaded, and the disadvantage is when u have to reload.

Second thing: nice idea i think should be implemented, because we already have not many long range melee weapons.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Graf on August 07, 2011, 09:11:54 pm
2APs for reloading is a joke:]

It only sounds time consuming, but if you'll do a "pick the arrow->put arrow to the bow" action, you may realize that it's not that slow. A skilled bow user may do it with approximately the same speed, that people usually spend on the gun reloading, or even less. I think, that it may even be equivalent to 1AP in the game. Moreover, if there ever will be such weapon in the game, I'd prefer to have no reloading at all, because it will be just like shooting the rocket launcher now - damn slow and useless in PvP (except the case, when there's a lot of people shooting it simultaneously).
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 07, 2011, 09:14:10 pm
Graf's right. Maybe not 1 AP, but surely 2.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Handyman on August 07, 2011, 09:34:38 pm
well i'm archer and " reloding " and aiming took like less than minute tbh i use compound bow, if you guys want i can check on timer how fast i can shoot 3 arrows, and hit the target :P
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: snailbeast on August 07, 2011, 09:44:45 pm
the main difference beetween bow and pistol is YOU CAN`T WEAR THE BOW LOADED ALL DAMN TIME so loading is a part of shot unlike pistol
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: VIVEK on August 07, 2011, 09:50:29 pm
AP isnt meant to correspond how long the action takes in real time, they are there to balance the game. Like, aiming a gun and shooting it is faster than reloading it and yet costs more than twice the AP. I suggested the high AP cost cause i dont want this weapon to somehow be tweaked into a top-tier weapon, in my vision its a tribal weapon and even with the exploding arrows it shouldnt be used for PVP (unless Hinkley gains a tribal arena after wipe!!!!) or TC.

Well, i hope the devs will consider this for the 3d era, i think we can all agree its a beasty weapon!
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: snailbeast on August 07, 2011, 09:58:42 pm
AP isnt meant to correspond how long the action takes in real time, they are there to balance the game. Like, aiming a gun and shooting it is faster than reloading it and yet costs more than twice the AP. I suggested the high AP cost cause i dont want this weapon to somehow be tweaked into a top-tier weapon, in my vision its a tribal weapon and even with the exploding arrows it shouldnt be used for PVP (unless Hinkley gains a tribal arena after wipe!!!!) or TC.

Well, i hope the devs will consider this for the 3d era, i think we can all agree its a beasty weapon!
what is a point of reloading a bow? How does it looks?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 07, 2011, 10:02:13 pm
Well, if you prefer, it will consume ammos directly from inventory, without reloading. And attack will cost 1 AP more. Better for ya?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: snailbeast on August 07, 2011, 10:08:33 pm
better. Much better.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 07, 2011, 10:11:48 pm
Well, VIVEK, if you think that the thing i said and that is better for snailbeast is ok, could you edit the original post so no further discussion about that point?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: VIVEK on August 07, 2011, 10:13:22 pm
what is a point of reloading a bow? How does it looks?

sort of like a Pipe Rifle.

Well, VIVEK, if you think that the thing i said and that is better for snailbeast is ok, could you edit the original post so no further discussion about that point?

well hey lets just keep the discussion going, even though i like your suggestion.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Chrupek on August 07, 2011, 10:19:50 pm
Im archer too, and only thing i can say Graf is: youre completely wrong... comparing reloading bow and handgun is like... :]

But of course, you can force any unrealistic idea...
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: ErnestGaskin on August 07, 2011, 11:04:27 pm
never fired a bow, though still imagining its reloading faster than putting the loose ammo thats everywhere in your bag into the clip one by one and finally sticking it in.

though, avv, maybe people never invented such thing as a bow in the fallout universe - i mean, irl, we didnt get the damn micro or cold fusion working.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Johnnybravo on August 08, 2011, 12:01:05 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzrahUUTi this is how reloading works in Fallout
It could be interesting to have long reload times and various as well, but then bursts should use less ammo as well and probably faster AP recharge.
I can think up interesting possibilities like charging when machineguns are out of ammo, etc.
It'd probably require tactics AP rolling as well...
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 08, 2011, 02:16:27 am
I don't think this should be in FOnline.

Firstly it's FAR too advanced for the FOnline universe and is simply too logical.

Second this would only fit into energy weapons, and that just doesn't make sense.

Not to mention brahmin poop already used explosive arrows.

First, how is a curved piece of wood with a string on it too advanced compared to a rocket launcher, combat shotgun, plastic explosives or any other weapon from the Fallout games?

Second, how in the hell would shooting an arrow from a compound weapon, related only to draw weight, classify as an energy weapon?

Third... WHAT does brahmin poop have to do with taping an explosive to an arrow and shooting it?

A skilled bow user may do it with approximately the same speed, that people usually spend on the gun reloading, or even less.

I've been shooting a bow in competitive archery and also deer hunting for about 12 years. And I can say from experience, it takes me about 2.5 to 3 second to string an arrow and draw it back if I try to do it quickly.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 08, 2011, 11:46:15 am
Third... WHAT does brahmin poop have to do with taping an explosive to an arrow and shooting it?
Maybe to stick to things, like glue... i heard that brahmin shit is sticky
I've been shooting a bow in competitive archery and also deer hunting for about 12 years. And I can say from experience, it takes me about 2.5 to 3 second to string an arrow and draw it back if I try to do it quickly.
Well, i never really been an archer, but i always thought that loading the arrow without aiming and shooting takes about 1-2 seconds. Thanks for clarification.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 09, 2011, 05:41:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CNEhEeC2-M

Check this out for clarification. Kid is kinda fast.

Also, if this weapon is ever made, I don't think it should be as primitive as a longbow or "recurve" such as the one in the video.

People were complaining about it being too simple, well a compound bow would have fit the "pre-war" technology a little better and some of the bows could have been salvaged!

Look:

(http://www.yeoldearcheryshoppe.com/images/09_stud_pkg.png)

vs

(http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/500/202915021.jpg)
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Fizzle on August 10, 2011, 01:29:39 am
yea you could have a new skill class called archery!

Have cross bows and shit and have explosive tips and what not. I think it would be pretty cool, but if its just a bow by its self... i dont know if it'll last.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Graf on August 10, 2011, 11:01:08 am
No, adding a new skill isn't possible as it is hardcoded. It's only possible to replace some of the existing skill classes with something else, but I', pretty sure that developers wouldn't replace any of them with archery. If this will be ever implemented, it's best to use the throwing skill for it.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Surf on August 10, 2011, 04:03:57 pm
No, adding a new skill isn't possible as it is hardcoded.

No.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 10, 2011, 05:21:58 pm
Well, after all without roulette or slot machines Gambling wont work...
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: VIVEK on August 10, 2011, 07:03:22 pm
or, unarmed and melee could be merged together in "Martial Arts" or something
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 10, 2011, 07:08:09 pm
Well, more then "Martial Arts" i would call it Close Quarters Combat, since a Super Sledge isnt exacly a "Martial Art".
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Josh on August 11, 2011, 07:39:25 am
I preemptively apologize for bringing up others fallout games but if I remember correctly the developers of the Van Buren Project merged several skills together to make them more appealing/functional. If we follow that example we could decide to merge skills like melee and unarmed, sneak and steal, science and repair, speech and barter, and or other interdependent skills so that alting isn't necessary to be able to utilize different play styles. Right now I doubt there are many people who would create a character with some of these skills tagged without planning to make alts to fulfill other needs/wants.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Graf on August 11, 2011, 08:58:28 am
Hmm... that's right, Josh. I like how you explained why we need to do this. Normally, I would reject any idea of that kind, but this way it just makes sense.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Jackall on August 11, 2011, 10:51:33 am
Josh get a +1 from me.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: barter1113 on August 11, 2011, 12:19:58 pm
I preemptively apologize for bringing up others fallout games but if I remember correctly the developers of the Van Buren Project merged several skills together to make them more appealing/functional. If we follow that example we could decide to merge skills like melee and unarmed, sneak and steal, science and repair, speech and barter, and or other interdependent skills so that alting isn't necessary to be able to utilize different play styles. Right now I doubt there are many people who would create a character with some of these skills tagged without planning to make alts to fulfill other needs/wants.
It sounds like fo: new vegas and 3 (uhm obvilion with guns) skills.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 11, 2011, 12:34:15 pm
Well, that's how Fallout 3 was goin' to be.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 12, 2011, 06:46:26 pm
So we're extremely off topic now. Just wondering if the bow will be brought back up.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 13, 2011, 02:06:14 am
Technically we are arguin' in what skill placin' bow, and to do that we need to mess up a little with skills. Plus, we took the occasion to bring also other skill problems... so arent TOTALLY off topic.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 13, 2011, 04:01:28 pm
Technically we are arguin' in what skill placin' bow, and to do that we need to mess up a little with skills. Plus, we took the occasion to bring also other skill problems... so arent TOTALLY off topic.

True. Point taken.

So are the skills and animation going to keep up from ever being able to implement the bow into FOnline?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: LagMaster on August 13, 2011, 05:09:10 pm
transform the melle weapons skill to primitive weapons, and add bow there

or i had this ideea one night, where we can have bow training, a perk that increases out chance to hit with a bow(of course, is a quest perk)

so making the bow a quest-perk related item is the best solution, unless merge it to melle/trow

(a little ilogical sugestion, but will create some balance, add the bow to unarmed)
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 13, 2011, 05:52:10 pm
In archery, you can have two kinds of tips for your arrows.

Just like most weapons in Fallout, the bow could have different kinds of ammunition. Standard, being the field point: (http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z367/keepinitwolf/imagesqtbnANd9GcRvrJyZZi88KB6SHNN7H.jpg) and maybe the Armor Piercing being the mechanical broadhead: (http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z367/keepinitwolf/g5t.jpg)
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: kraskish on August 13, 2011, 09:21:17 pm
to the above I also suggest flame arrows and dynamite arrows (jk).

Why discuss the topic further if it was clearly said it wont happen any time soon?
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Graf on August 13, 2011, 09:23:33 pm
Why discuss the topic further if it was clearly said it wont happen any time soon?

Disagree on that. It may be useful when the time to implement it will come. So let's continue the discussion.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 14, 2011, 05:57:31 am
Why discuss the topic further if it was clearly said it wont happen any time soon?

Because it's an open forum and the thread is about this weapon. If you don't like it, LEAVE.
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Grommok on August 14, 2011, 12:31:23 pm
Now, stop arguin' bout that and lets get back to bow.
For the skill problem, mergin' Unarmed and Meele weapons makes sense (Close Quarters Combar, Meele Combat) and such freein' a slot for those weapons (Bow-Crossbows), obiviously we will need to add more than just a bow, but atleast 4-5 different tipes.
I got some (i wont give any damage or else, just a list of probable materials):
Primitive Bow (wood, rope)
Crossbow (Primitive Bow, wood, metal parts)
Hunting Bow (Primitive Bow, metal parts 2 pieces)
Hunting Crossbow (Crossbow, metal part 2 pieces, alloys)
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Surf on August 14, 2011, 04:38:50 pm
Jip, for the start,a crossbow would be easier due to the more similar animation to a rifle than the bow. Some day, I'd really like to see this happen, shame I totally suck at animating. :(
Title: Re: the weapon that should always have been in FO2
Post by: Deicide on August 14, 2011, 05:40:38 pm

Primitive Bow (wood, rope)
Crossbow (Primitive Bow, wood, metal parts)
Hunting Bow (Primitive Bow, metal parts 2 pieces)
Hunting Crossbow (Crossbow, metal part 2 pieces, alloys)

I agree with you to an EXTENT. But the crossbow and the bow are completely unrelated here. The crossbow can be as simple as a needler pistol in this case. It fires alternate ammunition and is a one handed "pistol."

But the bow requires more thought, especially due to the animation factor of it all.

Also, the Primitive Bow would be called the Recurve Bow and the Hunting Bow with the metal parts and all is called a Compound Bow.