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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Survival Guides / Game Help => Topic started by: Stoned Frog on July 14, 2011, 10:05:34 am

Title: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stoned Frog on July 14, 2011, 10:05:34 am
I'm new to the game and community and was hoping to enjoy a game that was at least fair. I was questing and made my way to do the quest 'Bring Little Jesus Mordino's briefcase to Metzger' for the FOURTH time, yes the FOURTH time. Every time I make it to The Den, I was met by a person named Kucharek who killed me with his Power Armor and Mini-gun every single time and just right when he saw me he shot. You can't even quest in the game without being killed by assholes who just want to steal your leather armor that you just got for the fourth time. I don't even see how you gain new members if they have to deal with bullshit like this. I spent hours going all the way from the Hub, to the NCR train station, to New Reno, to Redden, and all the way finally to The Den, only to be killed four times in the same god damn place. He was right there, right there next to the quest giver as well and he just mowed me down. This really disencourages me, and most likely other new players from playing this game. And before you say, 'lol go ragequit and uninstall' I probably will, and good luck gaining new members.

Edit: And if you didn't know, you can't repeat this quest if you lose the briefcase, therefore I have to make a new character to re-do this simple quest.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Tin on July 14, 2011, 10:14:16 am
I'm new to the game and community and was hoping to enjoy a game that was at least fair. I was questing and made my way to do the quest 'Bring Little Jesus Mordino's briefcase to Metzger' for the FOURTH time, yes the FOURTH time. Every time I make it to The Den, I was met by a person named Kucharek who killed me with his Power Armor and Mini-gun every single time and just right when he saw me he shot. You can't even quest in the game without being killed by assholes who just want to steal your leather armor that you just got for the fourth time. I don't even see how you gain new members if they have to deal with bullshit like this. I spent hours going all the way from the Hub, to the NCR train station, to New Reno, to Redden, and all the way finally to The Den, only to be killed four times in the same god damn place. He was right there, right there next to the quest giver as well and he just mowed me down. This really disencourages me, and most likely other new players from playing this game. And before you say, 'lol go ragequit and uninstall' I probably will, and good luck gaining new members.

Edit: And if you didn't know, you can't repeat this quest if you lose the briefcase, therefore I have to make a new character to re-do this simple quest.

To be honest, your just learning how cruel the game is. The games not really about questing, if thats what you want I really wouldnt bother. And if your just doing the quest for its reward... then it aint even worth it.

It can be pretty frustrating at first, but once you realise its just a game and the stuff your losing is just worthless ingame items, you'll be fine. You can craft guns/ammo yourself just by collecting easy to get items, I'd suggest getting enough to make a few guns/ammo, keep spares at your tent for when you die, and go kill some critters to get your level up.

Keep your chin up and welcome to the wastes :D
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: magnum2016 on July 14, 2011, 10:18:17 am
ya dude i make a good living in the game 15K caps a day and i dont die much and i havnt done 1 quest forget about quest scavenge
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: magnum2016 on July 14, 2011, 10:18:55 am
if you want me to teach you a good tactic to get caps just ask and ill tell
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stoned Frog on July 14, 2011, 10:20:14 am
To be honest, your just learning how cruel the game is. The games not really about questing, if thats what you want I really wouldnt bother. And if your just doing the quest for its reward... then it aint even worth it.

It can be pretty frustrating at first, but once you realise its just a game and the stuff your losing is just worthless ingame items, you'll be fine. You can craft guns/ammo yourself just by collecting easy to get items, I'd suggest getting enough to make a few guns/ammo, keep spares at your tent for when you die, and go kill some critters to get your level up.

Keep your chin up and welcome to the wastes :D

A game is meant to be fun and entertaining, there's no real point in playing a game that you're constantly frustrated in. I mean that guy has been there for at least two hours while I've been remaking my characters.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stoned Frog on July 14, 2011, 10:27:40 am
if you want me to teach you a good tactic to get caps just ask and ill tell

I pm'd you, it'd be nice if you could reply? :)
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Tin on July 14, 2011, 10:31:39 am
A game is meant to be fun and entertaining, there's no real point in playing a game that you're constantly frustrated in. I mean that guy has been there for at least two hours while I've been remaking my characters.

Thats what I mean, it's frustrating at first because its not like other games, constantly losing your stuff, getting killed etc. Once you come to realise that it doesn't really matter, thats when the frustration ends. Remember, anything goes in the wastes :)
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stration on July 14, 2011, 10:51:34 am
for the FOURTH time

Not too bright, are we?

If someone kills you at a given unguarded location, it's probably not a very good idea to come back to that location the very same day (unless, of course, you have sufficient means to defeat the guy(s) who killed you at your disposal).
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: intruders on July 14, 2011, 10:56:43 am
I have to make a new character to re-do this simple quest.
no you dont,just ask someone to take the same quest and give you the briefcase,or make alt just for that...
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Reginmund on July 14, 2011, 11:03:00 am
the guy got you 4 times doing the same thing, shame on you for not learning to try something other than doing that one quest there is other content in the game although it is limited. also modify your posts instead of posting multiple times after yourself.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stoned Frog on July 14, 2011, 11:13:57 am
the guy got you 4 times doing the same thing, shame on you for not learning to try something other than doing that one quest there is other content in the game although it is limited. also modify your posts instead of posting multiple times after yourself.

I wouldn't expect him to stay in the same place for so long.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Luther Blissett on July 14, 2011, 11:19:01 am
As much as we've all got used to it, realised it doesn't matter etc, you have to think that he does have a valid point - if you've come from playing Fallout 1/2 etc - quests are the important thing in that game - essentially the main bit, the interesting bit. It makes sense that you'd do the same to get yourself started here - so you get killed -  and you try and do the quest again.

When you're starting out, getting xp, caps and a weapon IS important. Getting that first tent can be tough. Once you've got a tent with 20 of your chosen armours, 20 copies of your chosen weapon etc, then yeah - you don't care if you die, because you just pick up a new set of weapons and armour, and off you go again.

In a situation like this with a new player, and a person clearly being an arsehole for "lulz", it seems a little weird to blame the new player, doesn't it?

"People being arseholes is fine - that's playing the game properly. You're doing it wrong by trying to do a quest".
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Tin on July 14, 2011, 11:24:03 am
As much as we've all got used to it, realised it doesn't matter etc, you have to think that he does have a valid point - if you've come from playing Fallout 1/2 etc - quests are the important thing in that game - essentially the main bit, the interesting bit. It makes sense that you'd do the same to get yourself started here - so you get killed -  and you try and do the quest again.

When you're starting out, getting xp, caps and a weapon IS important. Getting that first tent can be tough. Once you've got a tent with 20 of your chosen armours, 20 copies of your chosen weapon etc, then yeah - you don't care if you die, because you just pick up a new set of weapons and armour, and off you go again.

In a situation like this with a new player, and a person clearly being an arsehole for "lulz", it seems a little weird to blame the new player, doesn't it?

"People being arseholes is fine - that's playing the game properly. You're doing it wrong by trying to do a quest".

I've been here for about 4/5 days or so I think, so I'm in the same boat. Like I said to him though, he needs to realise its just a game and not get frustrated. If he doesnt like it now, he isn't going to like it when the same person kills him again on the 100th quest try :P

Anything goes, which is a good thing not a bad thing imho
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Reginmund on July 14, 2011, 12:45:00 pm
As much as we've all got used to it, realised it doesn't matter etc, you have to think that he does have a valid point - if you've come from playing Fallout 1/2 etc - quests are the important thing in that game - essentially the main bit, the interesting bit. It makes sense that you'd do the same to get yourself started here - so you get killed -  and you try and do the quest again.

When you're starting out, getting xp, caps and a weapon IS important. Getting that first tent can be tough. Once you've got a tent with 20 of your chosen armours, 20 copies of your chosen weapon etc, then yeah - you don't care if you die, because you just pick up a new set of weapons and armour, and off you go again.

In a situation like this with a new player, and a person clearly being an arsehole for "lulz", it seems a little weird to blame the new player, doesn't it?

"People being arseholes is fine - that's playing the game properly. You're doing it wrong by trying to do a quest".

So what is stopping him from attempting a different quest? or if he really needs to complete this quest why not postpone it and attempt a different quest in the meantime.

I wouldn't expect him to stay in the same place for so long.

Anyway sure you wouldn't think people would camp a certain area for several hours the first time you play a game but now you know it does happen, particularly in unguarded areas. I just hope this experience doesnt make you jump onto the suggestions board and want some sort of newbie protection from the big bad experienced players who beat down on anyone/anything not in their faction or known to them.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Floodnik on July 14, 2011, 12:52:32 pm
Another whining topic have we made, huh?
Please, have mercy.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Trokanis on July 14, 2011, 12:53:14 pm
Really the issue is there is no balance in the game, so you will be abused by powerful players with too much time on their hands.  But don't worry too much a wipe is in the future, hopefully the near future.  I would say avoid ungaurded towns but sadly that doesn't even help anymore.  Try and stick it out, but don't expect sympathy from most people on here.  Right now the game is all about hide your good stuff, and hide yourself.  If you need some pointers or some start up help drop me a line I have some stuff just gathering dust, might as well help ya if I can.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Slothkid on July 14, 2011, 08:40:06 pm
It'd be nice if it was just a bit easier to get Brahmin hides, but to be honest, this game is great as far as realism goes. I'm not attacking or saying that you're wrong, frog, just stating my opinion. I'm currently working with him at the moment, since he asked me for help, but I need help as well, if not more. I'm getting along pretty well though as I have a few thousand caps in the bank now just from making healing powder, first aiding myself, crafting primative tools, and fighting small monsters such as rats. :P
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Slaver Snipe on July 14, 2011, 10:07:56 pm
I hope you didn't actually deposit said caps in a bank, better to just keep them at the tent so you KNOW you'll be able to use it when you need to
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Gargantua on July 14, 2011, 10:09:39 pm
Man, it's the wastes.  People get wasted, and life is cheap.

Howcome you are expecting to be a rock star, and that everything is just going to "go your way" the whole time?

This game is HARD, and it's not for the lighthearted.  Thats why I like it so much, aswell as hate it somedays.

That said, this game is not for everyone, If you cant handle the Mature rating, then get lost.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Sachaztan on July 14, 2011, 10:23:07 pm
As far as I see it, and what I think he meant with this thread, is that the game includes asshole players.

Problem is that it pretty much promotes and encourages that kind of behaviour. You can't stop assholes from playing online games but you can balance it to prevent that kind of idiocy, sadly I don't think it is possible to do that and at the same time keep what makes this game so great.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Luther Blissett on July 15, 2011, 01:03:31 am
but you can balance it to prevent that kind of idiocy, sadly I don't think it is possible to do that and at the same time keep what makes this game so great.

I actually think that eventually you can and eventually it will happen. The game's still being developed, and though much of it feels quite finished and fully playable, it's still a beta test. A lot of "lulzy" PKing seems to be just because there's no more non-PVP challenges left once you're top level and have good equipment - you don't "win the game" when you reach level 21, you don't fight against a super-powerful army and get your end stories and credits etc. You end up with a load of people (each one personally in possession of more equipment than than the entire worldwide supply of armours and weapons in the early Fallout games) for who the wasteland is no longer harsh at all, but they can still get a bit of fun out of making it harsh for other people.

When the NPC faction stuff, "domination mode" and other ideas, changes and things are implemented, then this will probably begin to change.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Fizzle on July 15, 2011, 06:19:39 am
I actually think that eventually you can and eventually it will happen. The game's still being developed, and though much of it feels quite finished and fully playable, it's still a beta test. A lot of "lulzy" PKing seems to be just because there's no more non-PVP challenges left once you're top level and have good equipment - you don't "win the game" when you reach level 21, you don't fight against a super-powerful army and get your end stories and credits etc. You end up with a load of people (each one personally in possession of more equipment than than the entire worldwide supply of armours and weapons in the early Fallout games) for who the wasteland is no longer harsh at all, but they can still get a bit of fun out of making it harsh for other people.

When the NPC faction stuff, "domination mode" and other ideas, changes and things are implemented, then this will probably begin to change.
YAY! on the change, and ya i like the pking in a way because it makes it challenging, but yes this game should make people frustrated because its a wasteland and people should get there asses kicked at some point in time. I know i have and i love it because i can always bounce back and hopefully kick there ass in the near future!
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Hololasima on July 15, 2011, 12:52:26 pm
no you dont,just ask someone to take the same quest and give you the briefcase,or make alt just for that...

You cant use any other briefcase. So new quest, new alt.


And yes Frog. This game is frustrating. I can only hardly remember times when i enjoyed this game ...
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stoned Frog on July 15, 2011, 02:22:25 pm
As far as I see it, and what I think he meant with this thread, is that the game includes asshole players.

Problem is that it pretty much promotes and encourages that kind of behaviour. You can't stop assholes from playing online games but you can balance it to prevent that kind of idiocy, sadly I don't think it is possible to do that and at the same time keep what makes this game so great.

This is my point yeah, if anybody else replies to this post saying, 'Another whiner', no I was pointing out all the asshole players who don't give new players a chance to start out therefore crippling the player-base. As well, I was turning a quest in at New Reno, and a douche-bag named SSakul kills me so if you guys want to look out for him. And yes, I have found out that questing isn't a good way to earn exp, but it's pretty fun still in my opinion.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: OskaRus on July 15, 2011, 02:34:35 pm
But imagine how great you would fell when you'll pwn some noob fourth time in a row with your powerbuild avanger burster. ;-) Thats why we play the game man. Not for carrying mordinos briefcases. Join some gang and they can teach you how to exploit your way to the top fast. In about month you can be pvp ready with most of important support alts if you know how.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Wichura on July 15, 2011, 06:30:46 pm
Where did this Kucharek-whatever dude get Power Armor anyway?

@topic - man, you are doing it wrong, everything. You go again and again in the same place few times in a row and you treat a computer game deadly serious business. And about shrinking playerbase - blame boredom, lack of updates and Wipe-That-Will-Never-Come, not pew-pew assholios. They were here long before and will remain long after, get use to this. And learn to pwn them/escape from them.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: T-888 on July 15, 2011, 06:48:14 pm
Where did this Kucharek-whatever dude get Power Armor anyway?


Wipe madness ...

This game is just not newbie friendly and it should stay like this.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Dekartz on July 15, 2011, 07:16:39 pm
This game is just not newbie friendly and it should stay like this.

Why? Why should the game cater to one group exclusively? Why is it that when "newbies" have troubles the stock response is "Wasteland is Harsh." but if any changes that may offset the balance of power are even mentioned by a dev, the larger factions bitch and moan. Shouldn't the wasteland be JUST as harsh for them?
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Luther Blissett on July 15, 2011, 07:33:07 pm
I was joking when I said this before -

"People being arseholes is fine - that's playing the game properly. You're doing it wrong by trying to do a quest".

But...

Thats why we play the game man. Not for carrying mordinos briefcases. Join some gang and they can teach you how to exploit your way to the top fast. In about month you can be pvp ready with most of important support alts if you know how.

@topic - man, you are doing it wrong, everything[...]

This game is just not newbie friendly and it should stay like this.

Is that actually what it's meant to be like? Are the quests and NPCs and locations and things actually just written as distractions to ward off new players, or to line them up neatly in certain places so people 'playing the game properly' have some poorly armed targets to 'play the game properly' against?

So, rather than playing the game for "having fun playing a game", you're meant to :
1) Create a mathematically perfect PVP character, to make sure there is no challenge.
2) Create a set of "support alts", to gather and craft things for your PVP character, to make sure there is no challenge.
3) Level up to 21 as quick as possible, by missing out nearly all of the game's content.
4) Stockpile weapons and ammo so you're functionally immortal (i.e. when you die, you're back to 100% fully armed in a few minutes).
5) Be level 21 and have lots of guns and armours
6) Form a gang with other people who have completed #1-#5
7) Stockpile more weapons and ammo so you're even more functionally immortal
8) Have a few fights against other groups of people who have followed #1-#6
9) Kill anyone who hasn't followed #1-#8 by clicking on them once with your mouse button
10) Press enter, typing "lol wasteland is harsh", then press enter again.
11) Repeat from #7

If so, why's this not written as a guide on the wiki?
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Tomowolf on July 15, 2011, 07:37:59 pm
For first I wanted to admit that I do not like topics like "ohnoes they killed me took my stuff then pissed on me".
It is NORMAL in this game - if you didnt understand WORLD/UNIVERSE of Fallout you just type the wrong game.
BTW If you didnt play any games of Fallout (F3 and NV dont count) do not read the rest of post.
And its right what he is saying about it - it should be harsh and it should be MORE harsh.
The strongest noob survives in wasteland.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Wichura on July 15, 2011, 08:05:34 pm
If so, why's this not written as a guide on the wiki?
If we are speaking about "having fun from game", imagination is the limit, young padawan.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1039/fightclub3z.jpg)
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Jotisz on July 15, 2011, 08:46:07 pm
I feel real disappointed from some replies after reading this topic saying q uests aren't important in an rpg....
Ok lot of player have made tons of char so far and already know all quest but saying for a new player not to care about quest is almost like saying don't brother with fallout 1-2 go play fallout 3 the fps. Ok maybe I'm raging a bit but I really feel like that.
The quest that in the game are quite good and seeing completed quest in the pipboy is a satisfying thing I feel happy when I see that I made quests and not just idled around.
The game isn't harsh its quite easy harshness is only there for those who want rp experience.
Getting armor guns is easy killing some PvP maniac is easy too gathering 200k caps is easy too but making a quest can take days and tons of luck...
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Luther Blissett on July 15, 2011, 09:08:56 pm
If we are speaking about "having fun from game", imagination is the limit, young padawan (and fight club picture)

Good example. Stuff like that is awesome when it happens - though it's a little rare. I was a bit disappointed when the Hub arena stopped being accessible due to some bugs or problems (unless it's working again now, in which case I need to get down there and punch some face).
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: headshot on July 15, 2011, 10:22:40 pm
Quote from: Wichura
Where did this Kucharek-whatever dude get Power Armor anyway?
Wait, imma chargin' ma gauss.

OK, let's get back to topic. There's many ways to enjoy the game as well. The hardest period is the begining. Everyone who starting the game will be killed many times till her or his character will "grow up" and be able at least to self-defence. Almost everyone started in such way, so there's no point to rage, buddy. This world is very hostile where people can kill for few caps. However, there's still people who willingly help the rookies as much as they can. Just ask 'round.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Dekartz on July 16, 2011, 07:06:14 am
For first I wanted to admit that I do not like topics like "ohnoes they killed me took my stuff then pissed on me".
It is NORMAL in this game - if you didnt understand WORLD/UNIVERSE of Fallout you just type the wrong game.
BTW If you didnt play any games of Fallout (F3 and NV dont count) do not read the rest of post.
And its right what he is saying about it - it should be harsh and it should be MORE harsh.
The strongest noob survives in wasteland.

The first two fallout games were ultimately on a difficulty scale. You didn't get face-raped by supermutants your first steps out of Arroyo/Vault13. The game followed a natural progression. Yeah, if you went to certain areas you could get killed, but you generally weren't sent in that direction (by the all-important story) until you were at least somewhat ready. Fallout 1 & 2 weren't about min-maxing your character and pwning noobs. I think part of the problem is that the factions who are currently at the "top" have nothing to do with all of the resources they've stockpiled. No enemy to fight, so they're bored and pick on the little guys. Which is fine and dandy until you realize that your playerbase is starting to shrink because of this. New players aren't joining because the old players are douches and the old players are leaving because they don't have anything to do.

Instead of going through the "if I had to go through it so do they." approach. Veteran players should try actually being considerate and thinking "Man, this sucked when it happened to me. Maybe I shouldn't be a douche and do it to someone else." But of course consideration without reward is a pipe-dream.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Wichura on July 16, 2011, 10:54:56 am
But of course consideration without reward is a pipe-dream.
Lies. I've never asked for reward nor demanding something in exchange for my help.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: zuhardu on July 16, 2011, 11:07:29 am
4 hours standing with your eyes in the monitor while nothing happends, that is hard. At least the newb quests, is walking, is creting new chars. The pk stayed 4 hours looking at nothing and hoping for a player. That is the hard part, I actually feel bad fot the pk, I know how hard it must be for him. THAT IS DEVOTION!!! Those are the players comited to FOnline, not the griefers, not the wihners. Good job mate, you have my respect! Guys like you are always welcome in Section 8.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Dekartz on July 16, 2011, 04:28:19 pm
Lies. I've never asked for reward nor demanding something in exchange for my help.

Excuse me mass consideration without reward is a pipe dream
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Schwartz on July 17, 2011, 12:35:19 am
(http://s4.ifotos.pl/img/lolo_hspqwhh.jpg)

Enjoy your stay :p
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: yoz on July 17, 2011, 12:40:05 am
So, it took you 4 deaths to realize that the guy might still be there waiting?

Lol, I love this guy.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Stoned Frog on July 17, 2011, 05:12:50 pm
I hope you didn't actually deposit said caps in a bank, better to just keep them at the tent so you KNOW you'll be able to use it when you need to

Yeah I know, I've been being guided by an 'oldfag' player so I'm not making stupid choices anymore. And plus making those characters has helped me tweak out a good heavy energy weapons build.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Reginmund on July 17, 2011, 06:02:48 pm
'oldfag'

much disrespect.
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: jonny rust on July 18, 2011, 07:33:19 pm
you need to approach this game like a modified Nietzsche.

that is to say "everything that kills you, should make you stronger". A characters death is never wasted if it teaches you a lesson. If something doesn't work then you need to change your tactic.

But almost more importantly I disagree that the game gets good once you stop caring about your items. Think of your items more like chips and the wasteland as a craps table. You need to care about your chips to some degree if there is going to a thrill to your risks, the higher the stakes the better the thrill but at the same time never bet more than you can afford as you don't want to break the bank :)

imho the thrill is whats important, If you play for the thrill then you will enjoy both winning and losing (admittedly winning will still be better) but while playing without caring might mean you will never be frustrated, whats the point of playing something that you have absolutely no emotion towards? 
Title: Re: How Over Powered Plays Treat New Players
Post by: Enzotainment on July 21, 2011, 03:59:18 pm
you need to approach this game like a modified Nietzsche.

that is to say "everything that kills you, should make you stronger". A characters death is never wasted if it teaches you a lesson. If something doesn't work then you need to change your tactic.

But almost more importantly I disagree that the game gets good once you stop caring about your items. Think of your items more like chips and the wasteland as a craps table. You need to care about your chips to some degree if there is going to a thrill to your risks, the higher the stakes the better the thrill but at the same time never bet more than you can afford as you don't want to break the bank :)

imho the thrill is whats important, If you play for the thrill then you will enjoy both winning and losing (admittedly winning will still be better) but while playing without caring might mean you will never be frustrated, whats the point of playing something that you have absolutely no emotion towards?

Amen to that train of thought!