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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Haterade on June 06, 2011, 01:00:19 pm
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ill keep this short... when big faction group enters for example into NCR they're able to steal plenty of loot from some place of the map by killing all guards (or hostile to them Npcs)
for example, there should be a storage building full of ready-to loot stuff like CAWS, P90C, and ammo. (maybe chance to get ranger armor) with electric gate as the only way in... when all guard npcs die, there will be message "NCR has been raided"(same time storage gate opens) same way as TC message(reinforcement NCR soldiers dont affect guard count, but theyll keep coming to kill you). and then you have chance to loot everything that storage has and run for your life because NCR soldiers will keep and keep coming at you till you leave the city. (for example 10-15 NCR soldiers and/or rangers coming every 1-2 minutes, all in CA because they protecting own city)
i think its balanced.... NCR is hard to raid with one big gang i bet, especially with reinforcement thing implented.
pros: good prizes + alliance of other gangs is allowed
cons: every bluesuit with a gun is able to shoot you down and loot you if he got a chance + NCR soldiers coming as a backup + 10 real time hours timeout to raid that town again.
when last character leaves storage room, its gate closes.. then goes 1 minute and all ncr guards respawn (the ones originally protecting NCR) (and anyone exploiting that, AKA going into the room in time, he will be teleported outside storage after 3 seconds of gates closing)
imho that can make it a huge battleground whenever gang feels doing that...
and if youd be a solo, never even try getting prize then ::) sticking together is a power
UPDATE: those 10-15 ncr soldiers are them who patrol near ncr, if faction that raids the ncr isnt finishing raid in time (15-20 minutes) there will spawn 40 ncr soldiers with best equipment to destroy you (...because so many think that its too easy to raid)
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No srsly it's whole republic, not bunch of militia -.-.
Same with VC filled with hi-tech defense. Hub is just lame, but that's because it apparantly did not change in 80 years?
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thats why theres always reinforcement of soldiers ::)
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And that's what is *really* going to happen if such thing as 'raiding guarded towns for prizes' ever gets implemented:
1. a group of 30 players with avenger miniguns enters a town;
2. each of them stands next to one of the guards;
3. all guards are killed instantly when the order to shoot comes;
4. having effortlessly 'earned' high-end items from the storage, the group leaves the town 10 seconds after, and goes to another town
Sounds like fun.... not.
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its not that simple :) and it does sound fun! after all theres 10 real time hours timeout. plus reinforcements (which aint sissy dicks)
and the storage would be located same place where President Tandi is.
P.S. reinforcements are UNLOOTABLE. so if you waste lots of ammo, youre already dead.
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its not that simple :) and it does sound fun! after all theres 10 real time hours timeout. plus reinforcements (which aint sissy dicks)
and the storage would be located same place where President Tandi is.
The idea is so easy to exploit, and has so many disadvantages that it has absolutely no chance of being successfully implemented.
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ok, tell me whats exploitable? maybe i will open my eyes more..
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I like the idea :) But it should be available for all guarded towns then. Want to see, how some gang would raid a Vault City with all their guards and the laser towers ;)
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I like the idea :) But it should be available for all guarded towns then. Want to see, how some gang would raid a Vault City with all their guards and the laser towers ;)
NCR was just an example :) i think them all should be raidable (with challenge)
P.S. about exploits, if you think that entering city and going to each guard ready to shoot with avengers is an exploit, well i dont think it is... main key here is that you kill all in time, because reinforcements are the main feature there, well, maybe this idea isnt much balanced, but again, we can slightly change it ;)
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The opnly way NCR could be "raided", is when its considered an event. Maybe the start of NCR/BOS war. There would be no realistic way a bunch of gangers could beat a multi-city alliance with decades of experience in regards to large scale/total war.
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gangers? why gangers? there are Factions with as hi-tech as NCR's stuff.
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Sounds good to me.
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This Sounds Fun, But It Would Be Harder For Newbies Just To Barely Stay Alive and There Would Be Choas All Over FOnline.
Plus, Guarded Towns are In The Game For A Reason.
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are
:o
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This Sounds Fun, But It Would Be Harder For Newbies Just To Barely Stay Alive and There Would Be Choas All Over FOnline.
Plus, Guarded Towns are In The Game For A Reason.
Seriously, it hurt eyes, didn't you learn a maj goes only after a dot?
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read carefully, 10 real time hours timeout, no one can raid the city till that timer is done.
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gangers? why gangers? there are Factions with as hi-tech as NCR's stuff.
It is not just about equipment but training, discipline, logistics, etc. Nation building has NEVER been purely military. If NCR "takeover", is possible, then it should be a quest of EPIC magnitude and require many steps.
1. Extensive questing could be done in the way of diplomatic and logistical preperations. Scouting targets, forging alliances, (both through various player gangs and NPC factions) maybe a little assasination quests like the ones in the original games.
2. Once the questing requirement has been completed, we can move onto the combat/logistical aspect of it. Factions would be required to co-ordinate their offensive realistically. IE: Red Dots initiate a massive assault on NCR. If they have an ally (CS for an example), their job would be to secure the 8 squares surrounding NCR to prevent re-enforcement. The assault could be made easier if a "fifth column", has been planted inside the city. Their primary job would be to de-activate defenses and alarms, disrupt command and control centers, and otherwise also assist with the dispatching of NCR loyalists whether they be militia or regular army.
On the flipside, it could be the same for the "good", factions IE: Lawyers. They do the complete opposite by assisting NCR forces and making sure everything runs smoothly. VSB could assist by disrupting CS attempts to block re-enforcements.
Its just not realistic for some average LULZ gangs to defeat the CAPITAL of a multi-city alliance with ease. The city has a population of thousands and how many players are in faction gangs??
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remember though, not everyone is a soldier... so it aint thousands of them. the population is.
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remember though, not everyone is a soldier... so it aint thousands of them. the population is.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/NCR
If you note, the NCR military consists of several DIVISIONS.
IRL, a division can consist of anywhere between 10 to 15 thousand men. Even with a reduced population we can probably assume 1000 soldiers per city at the least. Not to mention the NCR has also acquired large amounts of vehicles and maybe even verti-birds (its 2238 so this is un-certain).
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Its just not realistic for some average LULZ gangs to defeat the CAPITAL of a multi-city alliance with ease. The city has a population of thousands and how many players are in faction gangs??
We are not talking about a ranged battle in open field between 30 players on one side and 17.000 soldiers on the other side. It's a raid, as fast as possible : you strike, kill the few guards and first reinforcements waves (even if it's 100 soldiers, it's still doable) take the treasure and get the hell outta here asap. It's a raid, not a conquest.
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And then face thousand guys looking for your sorry ass to eradicate it from wasteland's history.
Just no...
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oh really, you all want realism but no fun... who cares if theres divisions... in game ncr looks like a little town.. but yeah whatever... nothing makes sense
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And then face thousand guys looking for your sorry ass to eradicate it from wasteland's history.
Just no...
Think about it like a bank attack in a western, in a big city with a casern not far. It does not prevent a fast attack and a quick escape. You will NOT face thousand of guys looking for your ass, or it means you failed your raid.
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Think about it like a bank attack in a western, in a big city with a casern not far. It does not prevent a fast attack and a quick escape. You will NOT face thousand of guys looking for your ass, or it means you failed your raid.
The faction being victim of the raid just sits on their asses and says "oh well, there goes our money, we don't need to look for the attackers sources."?
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that western bank, indeed...
but look... even if they have divisions, NCR base is not located in NCR, and it would take some time for them to come...
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Fort Seth is located in the NCR, aswell as Hub, Junktown, etc.
Besides that, there is not only one single division.
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oh well... then a No No for this idea... still just to inform, this aint fallout anymore, so it wouldnt hurt adding features which game itself didnt have.
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The faction being victim of the raid just sits on their asses and says "oh well, there goes our money, we don't need to look for the attackers sources."?
Don't want to understand huh? It's a big city, with the surprise if you're fast enough, it's surely possible to make a hit and run on a bank/depot, and go off in the streets. Of course defenders will try something, but it does not mean they are able to gather 10.000 soldiers and send them at a precise place in less than 10 minutes to wipe your ass.
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No one talked about immediate backclashes. I like the idea of raiding some city, but only if the responsible gang faces consequences for their actions, at their home.
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No one talked about immediate backclashes. I like the idea of raiding some city, but only if the responsible gang faces consequences for their actions, at their home.
I guess this kind of consequences should be implanted, sure. But not too harsh or it will loose interest ;p
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So, killing a whole town population of NPC is totally ok, but god beware if some factions base got scratched=it becomes too "harsh"?
Or how do you imagine those counteractions can be done?
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So, killing a whole town population of NPC is totally ok, but god beware if some factions base got scratched=it becomes too "harsh"?
NPCs don't have to gather stuff, and I heavily doubt we could to manage to kill whole NCR population. Also, it's because if it's too harsh agaisnt the reward, it won't worth it, and it will be a useless feature that noone will use. If there is a risk that they destroy your base, but you can loot an APA or 30 BA and as much plasma rifles, it worth it. If it's not so much loot, consequences should be less harsh; like, every guys who participated have a chance to encounter a patrol at your research on WM (and be killed with his stuff, probably).
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Keep in mind what you see in-game is meant for convenience and player friendly travel. NCR is a CAPITAL city therefore navigating it would be like going through somewhat of a real city. Not only that, but you have modern security measures like laser gates, survelillance systems, etc. There is no way you can compare it to a western border town of the late 1800s.
So yea, there is a reason why guarded cities are not raidable. Those small enough to be raided already exist.
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Keep in mind what you see in-game is meant for convenience and player friendly travel. NCR is a CAPITAL city therefore navigating it would be like going through somewhat of a real city. Not only that, but you have modern security measures like laser gates, survelillance systems, etc. There is no way you can compare it to a western border town of the late 1800s.
So yea, there is a reason why guarded cities are not raidable. Those small enough to be raided already exist.
Huh, it's still a place rebuilt after a nuclear apocalypse. And it's not a police state, you see that cause you go only near rich and politic headquarters or limits of the town. Going through a real city is pretty easy and without guarded checkpoints actually (at least in my country).
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Huh, it's still a place rebuilt after a nuclear apocalypse. And it's not a police state, you see that cause you go only near rich and politic headquarters or limits of the town. Going through a real city is pretty easy and without guarded checkpoints actually (at least in my country).
It may not be a police state (however security is sure like it), yet many people describe the NCR as such. There are cops around every corner to make sure folks do not carry weapons "at the ready". Not to mention, you can't really holster things like anti-tank weapons and mini-guns. If you have a population of thousands, someones going to get a call of to the military base just a square or so south of NCR as soon as the first shot is fired.
I will concede that there is a possibility of a one time bank raid inside NCR. But that would take meticulous planning to pull off. More like a inside job/bank break-in than a bank heist. Hollywood makes bank heists look real easy but reality hums to a different tune.
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So, killing a whole town population of NPC is totally ok, but god beware if some factions base got scratched=it becomes too "harsh"?
Or how do you imagine those counteractions can be done?
All players set up a tent, or a common one, problem gone.
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As said it would be a special "quest". Those involved would either be signed up before hand or atleast have their characters "tagged", by a GM.
I doubt any major city domination will happen unless its part of an event. Major NPC factions will do the brunt of the fighting while player gangs will serve as mercenaries/auxilliaries.
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Don't want to understand huh? It's a big city, with the surprise if you're fast enough, it's surely possible to make a hit and run on a bank/depot, and go off in the streets. Of course defenders will try something, but it does not mean they are able to gather 10.000 soldiers and send them at a precise place in less than 10 minutes to wipe your ass.
You would definetly be prepared for gang raids when you'd run big city in Fallout universe.
Besides, some faction are known to be hunting raiders (eg. Brotherhood of Steel) and those would probably like to have a word with you as well.
If anything this should be either part of raiders faction or should somewhat screw your characters (like becoming slaver in second Fallout)
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You would definetly be prepared for gang raids when you'd run big city in Fallout universe.
Besides, some faction are known to be hunting raiders (eg. Brotherhood of Steel) and those would probably like to have a word with you as well.
If anything this should be either part of raiders faction or should somewhat screw your characters (like becoming slaver in second Fallout)
Huh, BoS wouldn't care at all if you were attacking NCR... In fact, as long you don't interupt with their business, BoS wouldn't give a fuck about you and what you're doing. But sure, this will screw your rep with all NCR towns (hub, junktown and shady sand). I don't think you should be from raider faction to do it, but raider faction definitely need some quests like that.
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yeah the BoS isnt really at alliance with anyone, all they care about is gathering technology and keeping their faction as secretly as possible.
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Huh, BoS wouldn't care at all if you were attacking NCR...
I disagree, because:
all they care about is gathering technology...
Which means, if ugly powerbuilds attacked Shady Sands using LSW's, laser rifles, plasma rifles, avengers, etc., the Brotherhood would go, grab all that powerful stuff and take it home.
...and keeping their faction as secretly as possible.
By installing high tech bunkers with flags in towns instead of random parts of the Wasteland?
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if ugly powerbuilds attacked Shady Sands using LSW's, laser rifles, plasma rifles, avengers, etc., the Brotherhood would go, grab all that powerful stuff and take it home.
If only BoS don't know that some bluesuiter can craft avenger minigun or plasma rifle from scratch in his own cave... that bluesuiter only need to dig rocks in well-known HQ mine, about which noone cares (BoS, NCR or VC). If you're going to think about any realism... that won't be good.
Realism: If BoS wants to store high tech equipment, then they need to move thier bunker at HQ mines with infinite resources and live there!
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lol even if they "would" loot dead bodies in NCR, they wouldnt shoot anyone unless they get hit. which is stupid. and i find it stupid that they would come to NCR at all... they have the high tech, and i mean real hi-tech.... (Gauss, Turbo Plasma, Vindicator, PA, etc.)
"By installing high tech bunkers with flags in towns instead of random parts of the Wasteland?"
remember moment in original Fallout 2? you come to SF, and ask the guy something about 'why theres only you'
and then he says 'we dont need attention, we keep nose in our business, they keep in their own'.
i would say thats the same as keeping things secret. not like the popular NCR who wants to control the wasteland, and everybody knows that.