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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: DocAN. on May 20, 2011, 10:56:59 am

Title: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: DocAN. on May 20, 2011, 10:56:59 am
As everybody knows Plasma Rifle is a top EW weapon now, and it should be (perhaps post wipe Gatling will change it).
But the DMG it makes via crits is a way to high.
1 click and good roll and it makes 200+ dmg to BA dude.
I would say that i would like to make it half of current state, but there will be mass wine.
Thats why i suggest to rework plasma main dmg or, what will be even better, change multipiler in crit table.

Its so frustrating when 10EN dude with Stonelol perk and 220+ or 240+ hp is dying from 1 click.
Right now Plasma Rifle have InstaKill option without a roll on it.

As i heard it will have 30hex rng after wipe, if you do that you need to do something with its dmg too or there will be an army of 1 click dudes.


Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: pistacja on May 20, 2011, 11:19:21 am
It hits for 47.5. It's not the gun, it's the critical hits that do 4x damage AND ignore armour AND do a knockdown AND a knockout AND blind the victim.

FO is the only multiplayer game I know that has a snare, debuff and max damage 'spell' in one click.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: RavenousRat on May 20, 2011, 11:21:40 am
1) 200+ damage means 100+ roll, means target with anti-crit trait and anti-crit perk will be immune to 100+ rolls because of -20 to roll total, so those guys will never die with 1 click.
2) Armors will affect crit chance somehow, so if that guy will be in BA then he'll probably will live very long time before die.
3) Enclave CA or whatever it called, gives laser/plasma resist more, with 2 anti-crit trait+perk, bypasses will be more rare, so you'll be protected from those 1-click plasma dudes even more.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: avv on May 20, 2011, 11:35:37 am
It's gamble. Either the plasmalolcrit kills you instantly or it's a weak crit and you onehex the plasma for massive damage.

1) 200+ damage means 100+ roll, means target with anti-crit trait and anti-crit perk will be immune to 100+ rolls because of -20 to roll total, so those guys will never die with 1 click.

Actually 200+ is just 3x + bypass, no 100+ roll needed for that.

Apart from that, after wipe criticals will be nerfed.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Crazy on May 20, 2011, 12:07:23 pm
For using plasma rifle a lot these days (cause my avenger suxx now), I can say it is all or nothing: either awesome killing crit, or shitty crit/no crit. Just shot and pray, and play well to stay alive until the crit !

But with the huge rework after wipe on almost everything, I can say it's impossible to talk about balance right now.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Andr3aZ on May 20, 2011, 12:51:02 pm
Last time i tried to shoot someone with a plasmarifle it went boom  :'(
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Deep on May 20, 2011, 02:00:21 pm
Thumbs up if you love kill plasmadudes by shity minigun on hinkley ; )
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: vedaras on May 20, 2011, 02:28:43 pm
well, in here i think the biggest problem is the armor bypasses. Since best armor resist energy weapons well their damage is boosted in insane way (even laser pistol does (20-35 and it cost 120 CAPS). I think solar said that armor bypass chance is around 30% with 10 luck + better critical and i think this amount is way too big. These numbers usually means that its 30% to score those how people say 200+ dmg hits. So in my opinion nerfing armor bypass chance would improve it. Or making the chance same when you chose special perks that increase armor bypass chance by 5% or something.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Crazy on May 20, 2011, 03:03:24 pm
But with the huge rework after wipe on almost everything, I can say it's impossible to talk about balance right now.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Deep on May 20, 2011, 03:45:02 pm
I still dont understand why those things are still not implemented from more than 4months and we must wait more time till wipe. Those are the most important things connecting to PvP world.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Akiko on May 20, 2011, 04:34:31 pm
well, in here i think the biggest problem is the armor bypasses. Since best armor resist energy weapons well their damage is boosted in insane way (even laser pistol does (20-35 and it cost 120 CAPS). I think solar said that armor bypass chance is around 30% with 10 luck + better critical and i think this amount is way too big. These numbers usually means that its 30% to score those how people say 200+ dmg hits. So in my opinion nerfing armor bypass chance would improve it. Or making the chance same when you chose special perks that increase armor bypass chance by 5% or something.

If you nerf armor baypass it will make snipers usefull ( only criplers will left).

Without baypass sniper is making funny amount of dmg (sg: 40-50 per turn/shot, ew 10-20 per turn/shot  - in both cases i have consider only 100% of critical hits). In reference to BG ( 2 shots per turn each around 70 dmg) who has a lot of health nerfing bypass is missunderstanding
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: vedaras on May 20, 2011, 04:54:15 pm
If you nerf armor baypass it will make snipers usefull ( only criplers will left).

Without baypass sniper is making funny amount of dmg (sg: 40-50 per turn/shot, ew 10-20 per turn/shot  - in both cases i have consider only 100% of critical hits). In reference to BG ( 2 shots per turn each around 70 dmg) who has a lot of health nerfing bypass is missunderstanding

You are wrong, this would only nerf finesse snipers, others would still be ok. Also take a comparison of a "normal fight" that is likely to happen. BG with lsw jumps out of corner and meets sniper at distance of lets say 20 hexes. What big gunner can do? He can hit him for about 60 damage, expect a critical hit which is not more than 6% and even then the damage can vary from 120-180 range in which his target would still not die etc. Sniper can knock out the target, can cripple his arm, can run away.  Its not the damage that is making snipers powerful. And the bypasses with sick damage + additional effects that let the sniper to stack damage even further should be rare, not a common option.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: manero on May 20, 2011, 05:10:51 pm
Smerfetka hit few times a guy in Brotherhood Armor(1-10% deterioration) for 237 dmg WITHOUT a bypass and it wasnt instant kill :o He got it on screenshots as a dmg record ;)

And ofc my tumb is up ; ]
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Akiko on May 20, 2011, 05:54:57 pm
manero - yes only if she used plasma rifle

vedaras - you are a bit wrong... a BG user who can shot only once per turn is a very pity build.. Normally they shot twice per turn deatling abou 150 dmg - and that is usually a dedly amount of hit points taken by BG user for weak endurance sniper.

Additionally - if sniper won't success in knock down/out he/she will be dead next turn..

I have big gun user - and yesterday was ambushed by 2 snipers - they were camping and shoting to everyone from far distance ( can't even saw them).

I got 5 crits ( for 108, 24, 56, 21 and 136 dmg) and then was killed.  Each shot was aimed eyes/head  and each shot was cusscessfull crit for dmg as presented. No other effect had been observed ( my char have 10 end + stone"lol" perk). If it was turn based combat nothing bad would happen ( especially considering 1vs1 fight with 20 hex range).

I think currently sniper - bg balance is very good.

Only one what shoud be done it would be correction of energy guns.. Currently they are dealing HUGE dmg or nothing
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Crazy on May 20, 2011, 05:55:24 pm
Smerfetka hit few times a guy in Brotherhood Armor(1-10% deterioration) for 237 dmg WITHOUT a bypass and it wasnt instant kill :o

When someone die of critical hit, the effects of the critic aren't displayed. Doesn't mean it's not a bypass, simply not displayed. Or it would mean we got x10 multipliers...


Quote
I think currently sniper - bg balance is very good.

This balance is one of the worst, last session balance was good, this session snipers are as OP as BG were 3 sessions ago.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: RavenousRat on May 20, 2011, 07:11:34 pm
When someone die of critical hit, the effects of the critic aren't displayed. Doesn't mean it's not a bypass, simply not displayed. Or it would mean we got x10 multipliers...
Exactly +that's why most people never saw KOs with critical bursts, because the damage was so huge that target was dead. Dead people can't be bypassed, knocked downed or outed, because they're dead.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: vedaras on May 20, 2011, 09:12:00 pm

im not talking about noob fight in turn based.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Reiniat on May 21, 2011, 12:08:21 am
im my point of see statistics, calculations, and all that shit are in second plane in the battle
i use a triple burster and the first time i got o Hinkley i die like an idiot against a SG-sniper. After learn of that guy, i dont remember his name but thanks, i hardly lose a fight against critters builts with my triple burster.
Then i do a EW crippler, a pk built, able to double eyeshot. I go to hinkley and test it with Plasma Rifle (but the built is for pistols) against CA, results OP. then my enemyes begun to use Tesla, and i get killed like shit.

It is what i wanted all the time, if you think that the Plasma is OP, use a Tesla or MA.

And im sure all the guys thinking that Plasma is OP, are SG or BG users, and the guys thinking its fine or even UnderP are the plasma users. i dont know what that means, but im sure  ;D
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Michaelh139 on May 21, 2011, 12:12:47 am
It is what i wanted all the time, if you think that the Plasma is OP, use a Tesla or MA.
I don't see how metal armor helps with plasma....  only choices are combat armor+ or tesla but even with combat it is op and I have still seen people raped even with tesla on including myself.  Several times in a row.

Quote
And im sure all the guys thinking that Plasma is OP, are SG or BG users, and the guys thinking its fine or even UnderP are the plasma users. i dont know what that means, but im sure  ;D
 I agree with this.  What it means is there IS an obvious unbalance here, and the plasma users just wanna make sure their guns don't get nerfed to shit.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Reiniat on May 21, 2011, 12:22:23 am
I don't see how metal armor helps with plasma....  only choices are combat armor+ or tesla but even with combat it is op and I have still seen people raped even with tesla on including myself.  Several times in a row.

  I agree with this.  What it means is there IS an obvious unbalance here, and the plasma users just wanna make sure their guns don't get nerfed to shit.
1.- Yes you can die using Tesla against plasma, but is like die using a AS50 against a pistol in Bad Company: its posible but needs skills (human skills) luck, and a lot of different variations, it dont happen even the 15% of the fights.
2.-......Maybe, maybe dont, in my very personal point of see, and i use a SG triple burster, a Pistol EW crippler, a double Boomer, a HtH and a Critical Throwner, plasma IS only a little bit more powerful, laser is useless, but all that is inside a good balanced margin

As conclusion, if devs think plasma should be nerfed, yes do it, only a little bit, this is a Beta.....but if you get wrong dont make us suffer an entire wipe before of make another change, if changes are wrong, make another change in the moment, not wait until wipe.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Sarakin on May 21, 2011, 01:36:42 am
Im for reducing bypasses to half of the DR and DT, but increasing chance of getting a bypass
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: vedaras on May 21, 2011, 06:34:34 am
tesla armor is pretty hard to use now. Before some time it had specific build on guys with 2x toughness and 2x psycho, now tesla resists normal damage for too little to be used common :)
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Solar on May 21, 2011, 10:46:51 am
As part of the wipe I will be tweaking the armour values around a little bit. Tesla's normal resistance will be increased a bit in that.

It just needs me to have some free time - these new born sons do take quite a bit of time you know :P

Quote
As conclusion, if devs think plasma should be nerfed, yes do it, only a little bit, this is a Beta.....but if you get wrong dont make us suffer an entire wipe before of make another change, if changes are wrong, make another change in the moment, not wait until wipe.

All changes wait for the wipe, it is impossible to do any changes before that.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: LagMaster on May 21, 2011, 11:10:46 am
cuz next update=wipe
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Handyman on May 21, 2011, 12:58:56 pm
Hail the wipe ! any rumors when it's coming ?
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Crazy on May 21, 2011, 01:08:39 pm
any rumors when it's coming ?

Many say it is today. Some others are saying tomorrow. Few even say it was 2 days ago but noone noticed.

Most likely, it is soon.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Rascal on May 21, 2011, 01:29:48 pm
Harold Camping claims it gonna happend today at 18gmt+1
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: manero on May 21, 2011, 02:37:04 pm
Its not the plasma(which should be powerfull) problem but crit hits table. But i told it so many times that im not going to add anything more  ::)
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Johnnybravo on May 21, 2011, 02:56:46 pm
I'd love it being like Fallout Tactics where are no retarded 1 hex bursts or instakill criticals.
Yes, laser rifle can crit there up to 50 damage, which is like very good burst, but targeted shooting does not boost effects much.
(ofc, if you forget crazy stuff like 50cal machinegun)
Quote
As part of the wipe I will be tweaking the armour values around a little bit. Tesla's normal resistance will be increased a bit in that.
Let's hope that does not mean we'll be running with 90% resistances to anything.
Quote
Im for reducing bypasses to half of the DR and DT, but increasing chance of getting a bypass
It's not that bad, better if aimed shots were ment for effect not damage, currently it just makes 60% skill penalty to single shots, nothing more.
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: LagMaster on May 21, 2011, 03:05:00 pm
wiep it be at 1st of July
Title: Re: Plasma Noob Rifle
Post by: Deep on May 21, 2011, 03:16:19 pm
Tesla is piece of shit against EW because as someone said its 30% or more for bypass so about 1/3 i still get hit for about 200dmg and it doesnt matter am I in BA or Tesla or bluesuit... And someone up who said laser rifle is useless should stfu because its the most cheap weapon ingame which can make one-shoot hits for about 170 on BA guy and its not bypasses and its even more imba than plasma rifle which mostly people talkng about actual hinkley fights. This game will be never balanced if Devs make their own tests and after that they say avenger is most dps gun in game etc or they listen to great turn based players sry but I have to said that...