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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Attero on February 04, 2010, 10:13:48 pm
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Ok can you share info on it ? tables / equations - its quite annoying effect if not say /gg one ..
here is info shared by solor in some other place but its not compleate and doenst realy explains..
A head shot, with 3*more criticals, finesse, 10 Luck, better criticals ...
Shooting at an Endurance 1 target should have a knockout chance of ~39.27% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~47.2%
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~35.5% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~28.32%
But then again, on a more general char
A head shot with just Luck 6, with better crits ...
Shooting at an Endurance 1 target should have a knockout chance of ~26.29% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~32.36%
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~24.33% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~19.42%
Ok how damn attackers luck effect KO/KD chance ? it can only happen on critical so i see no reason to mention attackers luck / more criticals perks.
Assume hit is critical:
what are the chances to KO & KD for attacker with and without better criticals
how does Endurance impacts it then and how does stonewall work.
so on...
and yes this is a whine ... had 50% hp mobs would need 4 rounds of mashing me to kill me and i need 1-2 rounds to kill them ...
critical for 1 (lol) knockdown and knockout
bang ban bang critical for 20 ..bang critical knockdown ..bang bang dead ... couldnt get up ... thats just silly ....
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Attackers luck affects the chance of it being a critical hit ... those figures are per shot.
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share the info "Per critical hit"
also what are the differances what the attacker is aimed for ?
a shot at eyes has same chances to KO/KD as attack aimed for head/torso/armo and withotu aim ? (we put the ciritcal chances aside - we assume the hit was already critical)
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My spreadsheets all display per shot info, if you want to see per critical you can reverse engineer it from those figures.
KO/KD are generally similar for eye and head shots, but reduced for any where else.
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My spreadsheets all display per shot info, if you want to see per critical you can reverse engineer it from those figures.
KO/KD are generally similar for eye and head shots, but reduced for any where else.
share it then... full one with 10 end and so ;p
also what does it mean additional chances for KD ?
chances for KO are 25 chances for KD are 32 - so the hit has 57% to be either KD or KO ?
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numbers doesnt match ...case 10luck 3x more crit , finease => 60% +15% +10 +10% = 95% crit chance
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~35.5% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~28.32%
makes
37.4% chances for KO and 29.8% for KD
now for 6 luck = > (50+6*5)*60/100 % = 48% and and 6% base crit makes = 54% crit chances so :
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~24.33% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~19.42%
becomes:
45% for KO and 35.9% for KD
those numbers should be same and arnt - this data is inaccurate
also for low END KO chances < KD chances
for better end KO chances > KD chances .......... hell why ? both number change for higher end why KO suffer lesser penalty ? makes no sense as its stronger effect...
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At first glance the Luck 6 values don't even agree with myself ::)
I'll have to check them tomorrow and see wtf I've done.
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First, for some reason I left luck at 10, rather than 6 (I imagine I set target luck to 6, worrying how you can make a mistake with only 3 variables)
A head shot with just Luck 6, with better crits ...
Shooting at an Endurance 1 target should have a knockout chance of ~26.29% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~32.36%
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~24.33% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~19.42%
Should read as:
A head shot with just Luck 6, with better crits ...
Shooting at an Endurance 1 target should have a knockout chance of ~21% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~25.23%
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~15.14% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~18.98%
(corrected)
Second, these are head shots, so:
now for 6 luck = > (50+6*5)*60/100 % = 48% and and 6% base crit makes = 54% crit chances so
Is wrong, and should be 40/60, as 60 is for eyes, 40 is for the head. You also have to add on the bonus for ... erm, hitting? ... which leaves you at 42.5% crit chance for luck 6 head shot.
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ok sorry i assumed eye shot now i see you idd said head shot ..so its 40% ..
A head shot, with 3*more criticals, finesse, 10 Luck, better criticals ...
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~35.5% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~28.32%
->
crit chance is 40+10+15+1 = 75%
after reversing at target with 6 endurance
47.3% for KO and 37.76 for KD....
additional does it mean its total of 85% for either of those two to proc ? dont you think thats it a bit too much ?
i mean i know that eye shot cannot be done on combat armor neither when target is facing other way but still its 95% crit for eye shot...
0.95*0.95*0.85 = 76% ... 76% to get owned if you let enemy eye shot you is kinda f-ed...
question :
am i right how those chances sum ?
what are the KD / Ko chances for 9/10 END ?
agai nstonewall ..please dig out some info about it ;]
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Bah, now I've used an old version to correct the first error. I had indeed left it as Luck 10 originally, so will correct the earlier posts to reflect the correct values which should (hopefully ::) ) be:
Luck 6, better crits
Shooting at an Endurance 1 target should have a knockout chance of ~21% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~25.23%
Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~18.98% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~15.14%
crit chance is 40+10+15+1 = 75%
after reversing at target with 6 endurance
47.3% for KO and 37.76 for KD....
+4.5% as earlier
dont you think thats it a bit too much ?
I think there might be a bit too many knockouts over knockdowns, but the overall seems fine to me.
what are the KD / Ko chances for 9/10 END ?
Hoping this doesn't require me to correct myself twice more:
Out/Down
En 9 - 17.77 / 9.08
En 10 - 17.36/ 7.07
And Stonewall is 50% chance to avoid a knockdown
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+4.5% as earlier
dunn owhat you meant wit this one ..
with 10 END it is :
45.6% chances of recived critical to get KO
18.6 % for KD
stonewall reduces the 18% to 9% ...
now assuming KD is just 4 ap lower on next turn and KO is whole 2 turns lost ? then thats plaaaaaaaaain stupid .
stonewall is useless as it protects against weaker effect that has quite low chances to kick in to begin with ...
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You also have to add on the bonus for ... erm, hitting?
+4.5% as earlier
So add it to your crit chance.
Yes, there's too many knockouts over knockdowns, will need changing, a long with a couple of other things.
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Shooting at an Endurance 6 target should have a knockout chance of ~18.98% per shot, knockdown is additional chance of ~15.14%
Yes, there's too many knockouts over knockdowns, will need changing, a long with a couple of other things.
Playing as a sniper, it's either I knockout a minigunner with a first shot or I die. It means that I have about 25% chance of not dying (10 hexes of a range difference is just about enough to shoot first). Still too much ::)?
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Playing as a sniper, it's either I knockout a minigunner with a first shot or I die.
How so? Shouldn't he have damage like (1/3)*(3/4)*(240 to 330 dmg) if not point blank and with 5mm AP? That should be about 60 to 82,5 damage if your modified damage resist is zero, so if not dealing unaimed critical you should be ok after his turn (most of them probably not capable of shooting twice per turn). If he has 1 rank of bonus ranged dmg, it is like 80 to 102,5 damage, if he has two ranks, it should be like 100 to 122,5 damage. Am I right here?
This is just meant as a question, I'm not very good with these formulas and such kind of things. :)
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he possibly meant that he gets engaged where its bang minigun user 10 hexes in front of him
then he has about 1 shot before he gets in point blank range and get 1 shot (low hp) or two shot if he has good hp
ofc if we speak about "naked" then ofc facing minigun is pure death same as getting sniped at 50 hex range ;p
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How so? Shouldn't he have damage like (1/3)*(3/4)*(240 to 330 dmg) if not point blank and with 5mm AP? That should be about 60 to 82,5 damage if your modified damage resist is zero, so if not dealing unaimed critical you should be ok after his turn (most of them probably not capable of shooting twice per turn). If he has 1 rank of bonus ranged dmg, it is like 80 to 102,5 damage, if he has two ranks, it should be like 100 to 122,5 damage. Am I right here?
This is just meant as a question, I'm not very good with these formulas and such kind of things. :)
Yes, it usually takes 2 minigun bursts to kill me, not much a difference. Why? - 1 eyeshot costs 8 AP, a minigun burst - 6 AP (with fast shot ofc), so there's no chance I have a second shot before death. I think snipers have been nerfed enough already:
+1 AP cost for eyeshot/headshot
no eyeshot possible if you're not directly in front of a trarget,
-16% critical chance for eyeshots (for LK 6 character)
-22% critical chance for headshots (for LK 6 character)
nerfed critical tables,
In order to be a good sniper you have to have 10 LK, 10 PE, at least 230 SG. It means that you have to basically sacrifice everything else and reduce a character to just it - a mobile platform for a sniper rifle. Knockout is a main weapon of this build. I just think it definitly doesn't further nerfing.
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Yes, it usually takes 2 minigun bursts to kill me, not much a difference. Why? - 1 eyeshot costs 8 AP, a minigun burst - 6 AP (with fast shot ofc), so there's no chance I have a second shot before death. I think snipers have been nerfed enough already:
+1 AP cost for eyeshot/headshot
no eyeshot possible if you're not directly in front of a trarget,
-16% critical chance for eyeshots (for LK 6 character)
-22% critical chance for headshots (for LK 6 character)
nerfed critical tables,
In order to be a good sniper you have to have 10 LK, 10 PE, at least 230 SG. It means that you have to basically sacrifice everything else and reduce a character to just it - a mobile platform for a sniper rifle. Knockout is a main weapon of this build. I just think it definitly doesn't further nerfing.
there is no need to start with 10 PE you can go with 8 or even 6 if you will.
and dying in two burst ...at range or point blank ? if its at range there you realy wasted your hp ..you can have 200 hp as sniper...and if he gets close you can eat psycho - per wont penalty you here ... At top of that you should have FA that heals you for full amount - and you can have 150+ FA so basicly you can stand alot of beating more then you make it sound ...
and if you speak of low armor / no buffs .. then minigun is bluesuit killer - get over with that...
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if your hand is more fast than 1 or 2 APs... yeah you can do all of this.
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there is no need to start with 10 PE you can go with 8 or even 6 if you will.
8 PE makes sense only if you are going to use cigarrettes to buff it up to 10 later. 1 point of perception is worth 48 skill points invested into tagged SG (above 200% level), 1 point of intelligence gives you 40 sp, so whenever you are going to go over 200% of a gun skill, it's better to reduce INT and increase PE.
6 PE is not a sniper dude ;).
and dying in two burst ...at range or point blank ?
At range, I usually have a metal armor.
..you can have 200 hp as sniper
Post this build, since I don't believe you can make a good sniper with 200 hp (not talking about energy gunner here).
...and if he gets close you can eat psycho - per wont penalty you here
Not everyone has a doctor alt ;).
... At top of that you should have FA that heals you for full amount - and you can have 150+ FA
Only when you resign from outdoorsman or reduce PE, whch , as I explained before, is a bad choice for this type of build.
Basically you can have either 148hp or 172 hp (when PE at 8 ) as a sniper. And it's equal to 2 minigun bursts :-P
EDIT: And even if I somehow managed to make a second shot, it's about 40% chance to knockout a target (according to the above discussed formula) - still hardly fair, and it doesn't usually happen. Snipers don't need more nerfing.
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6 PE is not a sniper dude ;).
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Mentats
beats me but it adds perception ! same as jet!
you can even tweak the build to be able to do two aimed shots a round (with jet ofc)
Post this build, since I don't believe you can make a good sniper with 200 hp (not talking about energy gunner here).
you wish
and remember you make sniper , at worst you can spend all your points in just SG , (you dont need outdoor , but FA is godly with 10 lck)
Not everyone has a doctor alt Wink.
aye but the sole reason why psycho is so worthy/popular/needed is minigun.
@metal armor - i think you mean MKII -
those are the valoues at range burst from avenger should do not more to you then ...
JHP - metal2 - 86 with BA - 60,
AP - metal2 - 126 , BA - 108 ...
a little compare to psycho and 2x toughness BA... - 61 ;p (ofc ap ammo )
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@metal armor - i think you mean MKII -
those are the valoues at range burst from avenger should do not more to you then ...
JHP - metal2 - 86 with BA - 60,
AP - metal2 - 126 , BA - 108 ...
a little compare to psycho and 2x toughness BA... - 61 ;p (ofc ap ammo )
And ofc on the other side - the criticals like dropped weapon, crippled arms, blindness, knock-outs or -downs are gonna happen even if you wearing APA and staying on head. The crit build can just keep you on the ground or not capable of shooting, that you never gonna use this "super" damage.
As I see it everything has pros and cons.
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http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Mentats
If we go this way, then no doubt that you can make a superman, f.e. 1/4/10/1/9/6/10, will become 7/10/10/5/10/10/10, 250hp, 90% DR and 16 AP, when on drugs and totally unplayable when not. 95% of players don't use drugs though (or use only before talking to NPCs occasionally), so it does not change the fact that a sniper build is well balanced in usual, common PvP fights and does not need any more nerfs just because some people may abuse chems :P.
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All I know is that there is 50% more chance to get knocked out in turn-based mode.
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i have a question to this topic, so if you have low endurance others have higher chance to critical hit you? that idea sounds lame...
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I'd never go lower than 7 because you need at least 7 for sharpshooter.
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i have a question to this topic, so if you have low endurance others have higher chance to critical hit you? that idea sounds lame...
According to the formula, the chance of a knockdown depends much on a target endurance.
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i have a question to this topic, so if you have low endurance others have higher chance to critical hit you? that idea sounds lame...
Not to critical, but some results do, of course. No reason to completely alter it from Fallout after all.
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well raider with leather jacket and mauser hit me with aimed shots, all of them were critical, and all of them knocked me down/out, or dropped my weapon. Doesnt that should depend on his luck not my endurance? (i mean to cause critical, and only if critical is caused only then low endurance should cause effect)
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i have a question to this topic, so if you have low endurance others have higher chance to critical hit you? that idea sounds lame...
crit is attacker roll only
so ..
after attack hited roll for whatever its crit.
if crit then roll for "how good is the crit"
if the crit is good you have chances depanding on what body part was aimed :
this would be some imaginable example on head crit:
1) 2x dam
2) 2.5x dam and check agaisnt endurance (+3) for knockdown
3) 3x dam and check against endurance (+0) for knockout
4( 4x dam and check against endurance (-3) for knockout and knockdown
5) 5x dam knockdown , knockout and check agaisnt Luck (+0) for armor bypass
so the better the endurance the better are chances to resist knockdown /knockout
and the better luck the better the chances to not have armor bypassed.