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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Off-topic discussions => Topic started by: White Eagle on May 02, 2011, 09:38:55 am
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What you guys think? good, bad? tell reason.
i think its good because they don't have leader now, but 100% im sure that attacks on USA wont stop.
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So what?
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this is biggest news on world At the moment, if we talk about fucking Portal 2 we can talk about this too.
anyway he was Most Wanted man 1. on earth.
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Hah, can't help but laugh and smile at this.
You do realize that the whole thing is a load of bullshit right?
The person you think you know : no more than an actor.
How does somebody die, if they never existed in first place?
hm
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If you learned something about fundamental inslamists, you would know that Bin Laden wasn't their leader. He was just a symbol. And him being dead changes nothing.
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Osama dead? Well it doesn't change anything, most of al-khaida's actions weren't dependant on him anyway. He was just a symbol, who now died as a martyr (and he will get his 72 virgins)... so it's nothing that would stop those fundamentalists.
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Oooooh, new place for conspiracy theories ...
Yummy yummy. Please someone, can you tell me thruth about UFO ? Thanks
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Oooooh, new place for conspiracy theories ...
Yummy yummy. Please someone, can you tell me thruth about UFO ? Thanks
Well there is no doubt that UFO (Unidentified Flying Object) exists. I've seen plenty of flying objects that I wasn't able to identify.
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You know, i wanted to answer from someone who just "know the thruth"
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Osama is dead! Woohoo! Now let the world move on, shall we?
So what, no more NCR bombings?
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It took only 2 wars and 100 000+ dead civilians to get him. It could have been worse...
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War against terror is finally won.
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It took only 2 wars and 100 000+ dead civilians to get him. It could have been worse...
Yeah, I bet you would do that with no blood spilled. I mean, it's not like NATO is basically the first military force in the history of mankind that actually gives a damn and tries to reduce civilian casualties. But no, damn hippies always have to try looking smart by badmouthing the effort of the soldiers. Guess what? If you didn't want those 100 000+ dead, you should've voted otherwise. Or should've ran an effective social campaign. Because in the end, you're one of the people who pulled the trigger on them, duh. Democracy is sad, everybody is responsible, no?
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War against terror is finally won.
Something tells me it will never be won, gonna be an endless fight.
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Well this is certainly new news. I don't think those guys are done yet though. After this there is likely to be a mass bombing or killing.
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Yeah, I bet you would do that with no blood spilled. I mean, it's not like NATO is basically the first military force in the history of mankind that actually gives a damn and tries to reduce civilian casualties. But no, damn hippies always have to try looking smart by badmouthing the effort of the soldiers. Guess what? If you didn't want those 100 000+ dead, you should've voted otherwise. Or should've ran an effective social campaign. Because in the end, you're one of the people who pulled the trigger on them, duh. Democracy is sad, everybody is responsible, no?
Actually nato is largely supported by weapons manufacturer companies who basically need to have wars around to get their products sold. Avoiding civilian casualties is just a fashion trick to keep the wars more popular among people.
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I got only one thing to say.
Bad people never win :)
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Actually nato is largely supported by weapons manufacturer companies who basically need to have wars around to get their products sold. Avoiding civilian casualties is just a fashion trick to keep the wars more popular among people.
And, even if you're right, which I think isn't the case because weapon producers don't need wars to sell new products (war = government becomes poorer = doesn't want to buy new weapons, just look how many weapon programmes were cancelled in the US due to being, you know, at war), how is the fact we have shitty politicians who are prone to corruption the reason why NATO armies are bad?
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I would say don't believe mass media.
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REAL Osama Bin Laden lives. Fake Osama died but not real. 8)
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Tell us thruth Jimmy, please ! We are only sheeps and you know thruth
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lol guys, he isnt dead. ;D That was a Lie ;D
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Did they find this mysterious weapon of mass propaganda in Iraq too? Or do we have to wait for this glorious moment yet?
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Tell us thruth Jimmy, please ! We are only sheeps and you know thruth
Who are you? It's sarkasm *roftl*
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And who are you ? I am Hololasima ::)
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Why US army was thrown Osama into the ocean? Don't think about funeral and traditions.
It's fake. USA with OBAMA is manipulator.
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We apologize for the mistake in the report about the death of Bin Laden. There was a typo. Bin Laden is dad. Additionally, congratulations!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5XVAugy_3I&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5XVAugy_3I&feature=player_embedded)
Just tell me : Who are the crazier : American or Bin Laden ?
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Both are crazy enough.
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lol ofc they are happy they will live longer
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...but 100% im sure that attacks on USA wont stop.
And I'm 100% sure that attacks by USA won't stop.
And Lexx, war on terror won? I personally think there is no "war on terror", just some cheap excuse to do stuff because of political (or more exactly, economical) interests. Heh, USA (who have military bases on Latin America) even said the Islamists were installing a terrorist cell in the Argentina-Paraguay-Brazil frontier (Guarani Aquifer territory ;)). Americans, y u no less obvious?
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correct me if im wrong but the war for america cost much more than oil they received from iraq. I dont think you could count economical calculations on this.
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Obama's statement on death of bin Laden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYrIXoxyU9k
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They just built up their base in the Middle East, I don't really see anything wrong with that. If anything, Afghan women maybe won't be treated like commodities in the foreseeable future anymore. They're the most powerful superpower in the world, I don't see why they wouldn't act in their nation's interest. Besides, kudos to them for not engaging in some colonial BS like the British, Germans, Austrians or Russians did in their time - it's easy to bitch about the US of A being too aggressive in maintaining balance in the world, but if you consider the alternative they aren't really that bad.
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Balance?
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Balance?
Yeah, balance. Would you rather have another European world war? How about 2/3 of the world suddenly taking a giant dump on the notion of respecting human rights? How about people duking it out in the Balkans no holds barred? I, for one, am quite thankful to America for being the world's policeman - if they suddenly decided they don't really give a flying f**k like Ron Paul suggested I don't think the world would become a better place for most of us.
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This "world policeman" seems to not give a crap about poor gooks in North Korea for example. Their only fault is lack of oil in their country I guess.
Also human-rights in China being constantly raped surprisingly don't make Yankees to perform any actions. I can understand them too - you don't attack a guy that borrows you tons of cash and produces almost every single piece of shit you are using.
This planet is a mess.
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This "world policeman" seems to not give a crap about poor gooks in North Korea for example. Their only fault is lack of oil in their country I guess.
Their other fault is actually having an army and being capable of leveling Seoul within hours with conventional artillery strikes. If the current affairs in the Middle East make hippies cry, imagine the butthurt if that happened. Also, a lot of US-troop filled coffins.
Also human-rights in China being constantly raped surprisingly don't make Yankees to perform any actions. I can understand them too - you don't attack a guy that borrows you tons of cash and produces almost every single piece of shit you are using.
The Chineese themselves mostly don't really care, besides it's not like that country is a hellish place to live in. Also, I wouldn't want to see a superpower-on-superpower war in my lifespan, simply because it'd have a tremendous potential of reducing it drastically.
This planet is a mess.
It's not as messy as it used to be, but yeah - it is ;D
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ಠ_ಠ
USA and Iraq'er/Al-Quaida-Dudz were once friend's in war
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Their other fault is actually having an army and being capable of leveling Seoul within hours with conventional artillery strikes. If the current affairs in the Middle East make hippies cry, imagine the butthurt if that happened. Also, a lot of US-troop filled coffins.
Hippies gonna cry anyway, who cares. Western Europe is already half-muslim, thanks to their cries and political-correctness diarrhea.
Troops of any nation are trained to fill coffins with enemies or themselves, risk is part of their life. Wasteland is harsh.
The Chineese themselves mostly don't really care, besides it's not like that country is a hellish place to live in. Also, I wouldn't want to see a superpower-on-superpower war in my lifespan, simply because it'd have a tremendous potential of reducing it drastically.
Lucky guys would evaporate in miliseconds in this case. Not that I want to evaporate or, even worse, survive such thing.
USA and Iraq were once friend's in war
(http://charliesgames123.webs.com/photos/Album-1/CaptainObvious.jpg)
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(http://charliesgames123.webs.com/photos/Album-1/CaptainObvious.jpg)
YAY! thx, n00b ;D lol jk
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I think the same as Eternauta, and have to agree on the so obvious that media and the supremacy of north America is to get control over things. Can someone tell me who has killed (and raped) more people, and especially civilians (women and children) in those wars? Then who should be marked as terrorist? Who has charged, positioning defensively on their own land, to the Islamics? There is the economical intend. Were the US soldiers who attack them and declare state of war in Middle East. Recently (January, 2011), Obama declares war against Iran, when was supposed to fall back from their military action, by Obama words himself. US is forming wars, not Persia. I personally think they're plenty exhausted of being assaulted, and were now and will for the same, ever trying to defense themselves against oppression. Now, US is giving them more facts for which they will cumulate hate and then will have their fair revenge. US and Iraq were friends, but US turn his back on Iraq, looking after profits, as ever.
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I am just happy Bin Laden hided in some city in pakistan and not in cologne, germany.
I would not want to have US helicopters and trigger happy US special forces in my
neighbourhood because they want to execute some #1 bad boy.
Besides that, USA are real far from a world police. More they remind me of the old mafia chief.
Everyone knows he has blood on his hands and commit crimes, but yet he keeps his white vest.
They always supported brutal regimes and most evil men, as long as they cooperated with the USA.
Just have a look on what they did and still do in south america, the story is kinda endless.
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Al quaeda was started by CIA
they "killed" Osama only to find a pretext to blow up the white house
(belive me, they will)
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Al quaeda was started by CIA
they "killed" Osama only to find a pretext to blow up the white house
(belive me, they will)
Interesting.
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Can someone tell me who has killed (and raped) more people, and especially civilians (women and children) in those wars?
The insurgents. They sort of don't give a damn who they kill - and are often placing bombs in crowded areas with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible. Don't really remember NATO specifically targetting civilian populations. Also, don't remember NATO troops threatening people with death for cooperation with their legal government.
Then who should be marked as terrorist? Who has charged, positioning defensively on their own land, to the Islamics?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Alliance
Oh, and a lot of the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't even locals. A lot of fighters are from Pakistan, for example. That'd be like me, a Pole, teaming up with some friends, going over to Germany, placing bombs in city squares and occasionally executing a policeman or a soldier. That's your idea of patriotism and heroism?
There is the economical intend. Were the US soldiers who attack them and declare state of war in Middle East.
That's a blatant lie. Where's that economic intent? Losing untold millions of dollars in supporting the war effort? Claiming the enormous natural resources of Afghanistan? What are they gonna do, steal their sand and rocks? Heck, even in Iraq the foreign companies that profit the most from selling oil are... Chineese. Not to mention the fact that the Iraqi get a lot of profit for themselves and they're mostly better off than under Saddam's rule. Also - how do you declare state of war in the Middle East? Is Middle East a country? That'd be like "declaring a state of war in Asia"...
Recently (January, 2011), Obama declares war against Iran, when was supposed to fall back from their military action, by Obama words himself. US is forming wars, not Persia.
US is not at war with Iran, there's not a single US military man in Iran, so that's another lie. If you mean economic sanctions - they were approved by the UN due to a state being run by religious fanatics trying to get a hold on nuclear weapons, so your argument is invalid.
I personally think they're plenty exhausted of being assaulted, and were now and will for the same, ever trying to defense themselves against oppression. Now, US is giving them more facts for which they will cumulate hate and then will have their fair revenge.
You're talking oppression, so you must mean the Taliban and their terror campaign conducted against their own population? No? How about Saddam running a police state and killing everyone who tried to oppose him? You want to talk hate or revenge? Look who cheered the most when Saddam was hanged. The friggin' Iraqi people, that's who. Want to talk about hate in Afghanistan? Ask an ANA trooper, or a woman who suddenly can advance in society but is living under constant threat that the Taliban will kill her for doing so. Because apparently being born female and trying to have a successsful career is a crime to them.
US and Iraq were friends, but US turn his back on Iraq, looking after profits, as ever.
You're missing the part where Saddam invades Kuwait and gets his ass kicked by NATO forces in a legal, justified military operation. But hey, looking for profits is all they do - and screw the Kuwaitis, they should've been left living under a dictatorship enforced by foreign troops.
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Lagmaster is right, 'nuff said. Wouldn't be the first time CIA tried to influence an entire country's population by forming "rebel" groups. =P
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The insurgents. They sort of don't give a damn who they kill - and are often placing bombs in crowded areas with the intent of killing as many civilians as possible. Don't really remember NATO specifically targetting civilian populations. Also, don't remember NATO troops threatening people with death for cooperation with their legal government.
And the forces to control some countries in Middle East, has been proven to do not give a damn to what they shoot at (and with what inside the bullets, because as well as in the war in Kosovo, they used Depleted Uranium when restricted, causing an incredible raise in Cancer decease, that's a crime of war).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Alliance
Oh, and a lot of the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't even locals. A lot of fighters are from Pakistan, for example. That'd be like me, a Pole, teaming up with some friends, going over to Germany, placing bombs in city squares and occasionally executing a policeman or a soldier. That's your idea of patriotism and heroism?
I know that. I'm sure US start invading, am I right? But in the case of Middle East, they are just expelling the invaders out of their lands, as the non-locals agreed to go there even if their lives are in game. The vast majority of the non-locals are from near countries. And I'm sure they do not see patriotism as US see it. Anyway, I do not support patriotism of any country.
You are putting as example only a few extremists, and condemning a whole country, or many, for what they do. That is, in any case, an excuse.
That's a blatant lie. Where's that economic intent? Losing untold millions of dollars in supporting the war effort? Claiming the enormous natural resources of Afghanistan? What are they gonna do, steal their sand and rocks? Heck, even in Iraq the foreign companies that profit the most from selling oil are... Chineese. Not to mention the fact that the Iraqi get a lot of profit for themselves and they're mostly better off than under Saddam's rule. Also - how do you declare state of war in the Middle East? Is Middle East a country? That'd be like "declaring a state of war in Asia"...
I think you're lying here. The massive quantity of possible energy landing on that place on earth, the Middle East, is about the 80% of the world energy supplies. If the US achieves to control the area, all they lose on battle and efforts to rule, will bring usufruct. That usufruct will retrieve the US casualties. All this by ruling the "oil triangle".
Middle East isn't a country, but they work as one. Are you going to see them fighting with each other? I doubt about it. If you do it's probably because another nation get involved.
US is not at war with Iran, there's not a single US military man in Iran, so that's another lie. If you mean economic sanctions - they were approved by the UN due to a state being run by religious fanatics trying to get a hold on nuclear weapons, so your argument is invalid.
Tell the whole story. US was about to, or do intervene via Israel, over Iranian territory, for the same you say here: A probable attack from Iran could endanger the hegemony of the imperialist control of the US-Israel axis and the EU in the Middle East.
You're talking oppression, so you must mean the Taliban and their terror campaign conducted against their own population? No? How about Saddam running a police state and killing everyone who tried to oppose him? You want to talk hate or revenge? Look who cheered the most when Saddam was hanged. The friggin' Iraqi people, that's who. Want to talk about hate in Afghanistan? Ask an ANA trooper, or a woman who suddenly can advance in society but is living under constant threat that the Taliban will kill her for doing so. Because apparently being born female and trying to have a successsful career is a crime to them.
If you point out to their culture, then you should leave them and not try to change what they are, or has been since a long time ago. If the US is wanting to be the Hero, they are remaining as dominator instead. If they would like to change some way of life on your country, then all would not be agree. Put yourself in their place.
You're missing the part where Saddam invades Kuwait and gets his ass kicked by NATO forces in a legal, justified military operation. But hey, looking for profits is all they do - and screw the Kuwaitis, they should've been left living under a dictatorship enforced by foreign troops.
I really don't know when Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait, If it was after US turning his back on him, then there is the reason that US has taken place over kuwait. Strategical location.
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11.9. - 4000 dead, war on terror - 100 000+ dead. THE GOOD GUYS WIN!!!
Lagmaster is right, 'nuff said. Wouldn't be the first time CIA tried to influence an entire country's population by forming "rebel" groups. =P
I heard that Al-Quaeda (supported by CIA) was originally supposed to drive out russians from Afganistan, but it got out of hands a bit. Though i don't have this info from reliable sources (well what sources are reliable these days anyway)
What are they gonna do, steal their sand and rocks?
Strange how many people think that there's nothing in there. They got plenty of valuable metals, lithium and other stuff (the oil and gas aren't the only valuable resources).
From what I've heard from one Afghan co-student the Afghans are ofcourse gratefull for getting rid of the Taliban, but they are also pretty pissed about americans not giving a damn about civilian (human-shields) casualties when it comes to artillery strikes against radicals.
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And the forces to control some countries in Middle East, has been proven to do not give a damn to what they shoot at (and with what inside the bullets, because as well as in the war in Kosovo, they used Depleted Uranium when restricted, causing an incredible raise in Cancer decease, that's a crime of war).
Depleted Uranium does not cause cancer (there were numerous studies dealing with this issue and none offered any conclusive evidence), it's just a very hard piece of metal that vastly improves armor penetration over normal ammunition, aside from Tungsten-based stuff. Yes, it's a toxic metal - but the only moment you'd be inhaling it would be if a projectile penetrated your vehicle or struck somewhere close by - and the fact that your body would be simultaneously grilled and penetrated by a large number of armor shards sort of makes it a moot point.
I know that. I'm sure US start invading, am I right? But in the case of Middle East, they are just expelling the invaders out of their lands, as the non-locals agreed to go there even if their lives are in game. The vast majority of the non-locals are from near countries. And I'm sure they do not see patriotism as US see it. Anyway, I do not support patriotism of any country.
What happened was Afghans expelled the Taliban with the help of US troops. Even if the US didn't "invade" there'd be fighting anyway simply because the Taliban weren't really liked by anyone aside from their Pakistani supporters. I don't think that taking a side in a civil war and letting the victors establish their own state ran according to their own rules could be called an invasion. Americans helped Afghans win their country back, now they're there to make sure it stays that way until the country can properly support itself.
You are putting as example only a few extremists, and condemning a whole country, or many, for what they do. That is, in any case, an excuse.
You are the one siding with the extremists and dictators here. Most Afghans and Iraqis would be happy if the insurgencies simply lost and the people running them moved the hell out instead of screwing up their lives. These wars are ongoing only due to militant islamic extremism supplying the insurgents with foreign cannon fodder and funds and contrary to what some people would believe not everyone likes that out there. Heck, there are some 150 000 ANA and 300 000 Iraqi Army soldiers fighting against those insurgents as we speak, which sort of proves my point.
I think you're lying here. The massive quantity of possible energy landing on that place on earth, the Middle East, is about the 80% of the world energy supplies. If the US achieves to control the area, all they lose on battle and efforts to rule, will bring usufruct. That usufruct will retrieve the US casualties. All this by ruling the "oil triangle".
Get your facts straight. It's not classified information, the US does not really benefit from Iraqi oil exports and Afghanistan doesn't have natural resources to speak of.
Middle East isn't a country, but they work as one. Are you going to see them fighting with each other? I doubt about it. If you do it's probably because another nation get involved.
Actually they've been fighting each other more than they've been fighting us. You talk politics, yet you don't know history - just what you'd expect from a leftist, lol.
Tell the whole story. US was about to, or do intervene via Israel, over Iranian territory, for the same you say here: A probable attack from Iran could endanger the hegemony of the imperialist control of the US-Israel axis and the EU in the Middle East.
Dude, Iran is being run by a crazy bastard who openly talks about wiping out the entire population of Israel. You're saying we should let him get nukes and you're talking as if the Israel was "evil". That's really messed up. Besides, if the US-Israel axis really had imperial ambitions, they could just level every single country they don't like Wehrmacht-style. They do have the military capability for that. Somehow, I don't see them doing that. Somehow most of their military actions in the region resemble police work more than they resemble waging a conventional war. But, yeah, they're all evil childkilling rapists and the insurgents are somehow A-ok even though they're killing civillians en-masse in their terrorist attacks. That's quite hypocritical of you, wouldn't you say?
If you point out to their culture, then you should leave them and not try to change what they are, or has been since a long time ago. If the US is wanting to be the Hero, they are remaining as dominator instead. If they would like to change some way of life on your country, then all would not be agree. Put yourself in their place.
If it really was their culture, they wouldn't be fighting a war against the extremists to defend their rights. Not all Afghans are backwards-thinking chauvinistic bastards, it's just that the Taliban are. If by some stroke of misfortune a brutal, mostly foreign dictatorship gained power in my country and started taking away our freedoms and killing people with different beliefs and the US invaded to remove that regime, I'd be fighting side by side with the US troops along with a fair number of my compatriots.
I really don't know when Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait, If it was after US turning his back on him, then there is the reason that US has taken place over kuwait. Strategical location.
The US never really supported Saddam that much, it's just that they preffered him to the religious fanatics in Iran and when the Iraq-Iran war broke out they supplied Iraq with weapons. The US never has taken over Kuwait, they just defended that country and left - but that's an evil thing to do in your book too, right? ::)
From what I've heard from one Afghan co-student the Afghans are ofcourse gratefull for getting rid of the Taliban, but they are also pretty pissed about americans not giving a damn about civilian (human-shields) casualties when it comes to artillery strikes against radicals.
If they really didn't give a damn they'd have completely different ROE. It's war, sadly mistakes do happen and people die - especially when one side doesn't care about civillian casualties at all, and I'm not talking NATO here.
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Hah, can't help but laugh and smile at this.
You do realize that the whole thing is a load of bullshit right?
The person you think you know : no more than an actor.
How does somebody die, if they never existed in first place?
hm
oh you silly conspiracy theorists and your silly nonsense making stories
also, he dies, someone replaces them, those people kill themselves for their cause, 1 leader down, 1 will replace
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US is at war with Iran? I guess we really do learn something new every day. ::)
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Osama BEN* Laden ;D
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War ? What war ? Do you realize that war never existed ?
America devise it, so they can keep world in fear and distribution of gummy bears is under their control.
Come on people ... As Mayck said, do you think that death of Usain Bolt.....er....i mean Osama Bin Ladin mean something for us ? If he existed, he was just some leader of terrorist group, and another leader will replace him.
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Lagmaster and Holo are both entirely correct.
Gorlak is impressed.
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"World Police"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce8CgJRkr_I&feature=related
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Thanks to Nice_Boat for defending the US. To be honest with how much shit we take for helping people out, (If you disagree that we don't care about the people in Iraq/Afghanistan ask why we would spend more than a trillion dollars JUST to help rebuild the countries instead of saying "fuck it lets pull out") or if you believe the wars are for natural resources then you are fucking crazy. I would like to see what your countries would have done if they had the power of the US and had faced a terrorist attack like 9/11. Would they say awww shit we must be wrong let's change our lifestyle to fit whatever would be acceptable to the terrorists or would you take the fight to them? Yes civilians die in war, it's a fact of wars, Yes some soldiers rape women/abuse prisoners, once again a fact of war. We do what we can to make reparations, yes money can't buy a life back yet ALL civilian casualties caused by the United States have 10,000 US $ given to family members, if we didn't care that we fucked up wouldn't we just say Ooops sorry but your not important so we're just going to ignore the fact you lost a son/daughter/husband.
Personally i believe the US would be better starting an isolationist policy and see how the world gets along for 20-30 years, if it turns out that the world's OK then we should keep said policies if not, come to the aid of whatever countries have been fucked over by the US not being there. Then of course we would get shit for not being there and stopping whatever tyrant from being in power in the first place.
To the comment about the U.S. not carrying about North Koreans, Is it our responsibility to help them? You'll probably say "Yes" due to the fact we have excess etc. Why don't other economic powers help them instead? Why must it fall on the US shoulders? Why must we take the blame for not helping them when other countries don't?
To the posts about the US citizens celebrating, Would your countries have celebrated if a man who committed 9/11 died if it had been done in your country? Yes.
China not caring about human rights etc. Would you really like to see a war involving nukes or two superpowers fighting? No, you don't want the worlds economy to go into shatters when the two largest economies go to war? You don't want that really? K Thx.
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he will get his 72 virgins
He won't because god does not exist. Only being that comes close to being a deity is who inspires chaos in all of us.
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Who gave your goverments the rights to decide who is a tyrant and who is not? In every conflict in the world there are 2 sides and USA / NATO just took a favorable(more profitable in future) side for them.Supported them by Firepower,Money,Weapons whatever... then totally destroyed the resistance of second hand and installed as it is fashionable now to say *true democracy*.
people laughting on USA and NATO in my country, there are so many jokes about this *bringing democracy shit* already:
Commentary for the movie "Alien invasion: The Battle of Los Angeles. "
xxx: Americans in the film behave like rebels o_O.Looks like aliens bringing them democracy! Why they resist?...
PS:How someone must be so stupid to believe all what they feed us throught the media. I laughed when I heard on television the words of one European official * We can not calmly watch as the Libyan people suffering ... We believe our duty to help them *. hypocrite.
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Who gave your goverments the rights to decide who is a tyrant and who is not? In every conflict in the world there are 2 sides and USA / NATO just took a favorable(more profitable in future) side for them.Supported them by Firepower,Money,Weapons whatever... then totally destroyed the resistance of second hand and installed as it is fashionable now to say *true democracy*.
people laughting on USA and NATO in my country, there are so many jokes about this *bringing democracy shit* already:
Commentary for the movie "Alien invasion: The Battle of Los Angeles. "
xxx: Americans in the film behave like rebels o_O.Looks like aliens bringing them democracy! Why they resist?...
PS:How someone must be so stupid to believe all what they feed us throught the media. I laughed when I heard on television the words of one European official * We can not calmly watch as the Libyan people suffering ... We believe our duty to help them *. hypocrite.
Cool story bro. I dare you to say that to someone in their face. If you do it, record it and upload it, I will never be able to pay you with internets in my lifetime.
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There are already alot of replys uploaded everywhere by dudes who share my point. And if u think i fear USA's napalm or bombs, u're wrong.
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if u think i fear USA's napalm or bombs, u're wrong.
I don't think you are afraid of repercussions of the military. I am suggesting that you are afraid of lynching by the public.
I for one am glad that this towelheaded, backwardassy old man is dead, and I hope his organisation will soon follow. The "Great Evil Sex-Crazed Infidel Corrupt Capitalist Empire" he fought welcomes everyone into its borders, gives them jobs, food, freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms in defense from thugs and welfare (when it's deserved). America helps other countries and does not expect any thanks, it sends shittons of food, supplies and money to countries in need. America does not care if these countries will accept its aid or if these countries will grow dependent on America's aid. America is the most philantropist country in the world. And you dare to scorn it for defending itself. Why don't you go marry a mail box somewhere in Emirates of Backwardassy Arabia?
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Talking to such a blind person leads to nowhere *cought*. Take off your purple glasses.
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Talking to such a blind person leads to nowhere *cought*. Take off your purple glasses.
Take off your tinfoil. I know your games. It is better to serve the empire than to fight it.
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If u're so proud to serve the *Empire* why aren't u on frontline in Afganistan, defending it's democracy state?
And i think u even don't clearly know what happend there for real and from where USA - Al-Khaida war comes from...
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If u're so proud to serve the *Empire* why aren't u on frontline in Afganistan, defending it's democracy state?
I'm working on a degree. & FYI military medical commission did not classify me as a cannon fodder material.
And i think u even don't clearly know what happend there for real and from where USA - Al-Khaida war comes from...
You watched too much Zeitgeist.
On an additional note, I bet you're not even American.
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I don't need to watch something called *Zeitgeist*(don't even know wth is this) to know waht happen in afganistan. i live much closer to this country than u can imagine. And ofc i'm not a brainwashed american *I serve Empire* fellow.
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If you think I don't know about the oil conquest, you're wrong. It's obvious that oil is running out. Replacement fuels are already available, Brazil uses ethanol-based propulsion and it's doing alright. Hydrogen cells are on the way. Electric motors are primitive so far, but it is getting better each year. We can use up all the oil without worries, we're set up.
And it's not like Middle East really needs all that oil when they're still at the stage of medievalesque judicial system.
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bin laden was an asshole. killed lots of people. w. bush was an a**hole. did the same thing, only took it further by playing americans for suckers and worked on his golf swing. i dont care WHAT flag an a**hole is waving when he dies, he's still south of a ballsack. america is there for the oil. it helps to kill a bad guy while taking it. score double for avenging 9-11.
stupid when anyone thinks "we win". nobody wins this bullshit. one big ****ing dumb idea, just another car in the retard train of world domination.
like other people on here said, hes just an icon. a famous person. this is janet jacksons tit.
someone gets shot. throw a damn party. >:(
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And it's not like Middle East really needs all that oil when they're still at the stage of medievalesque judicial system.
Sounds like: Why the hell Middle East needs their oil? We can find a better use for all this resourses! Coz we have so awesome High_Tech judicial system!
if in 100 years you have spent most of your natural resources does not give you any right to withdraw them from the weaker countries under the false pretense of *liberation from tyranny* *protection of civilian populations* or *restorative justice*.
But this is life as it should be, what it has always been. Strong precedence over the weak. But in the 20th century, people learned to skillfully hide their claims to land, resources behind political intrigues, bureaucratic tricks and mass media manipulations.
And if u killed a kid's parents, be prepared to feel his revenge when he will grow up.
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(http://thenewvoice.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/thetruthisoutthere.jpg)
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In first place, the US is who decide who's terrorist and who's not. So your entire point about terrorism is wrong. You Slave Snipe and Nice Boat think in that because are from the US. They attack, when you have attacked in the past, and then they are simply terrorists. They and the arab union has since some time ago been charged in their homelands and then you're surprised of getting bombed! Oh, that was totally unexpected. Why do you think Osama trained (and trained his brothers) that seriously? because he was wanting the defense of his people. When extremists he was acquiring are for not good, he was expecting them to believe that hard in what they believe, because he was plenty sure that teaching that way, they were willing to spend their lives for his country, as any other religious would dare. And that's why there in the US are so Christians too, and the only thing they let read in their prison is the bible as example.
The policeman being a criminal.
I have to point your ignorance about Depleted Uranium, Nice Boat, inasmuch it not a metal, Uranium is a mineral, secondary to this, it contains uranium-238, checked that produces teratogenic effects. It damages many tissues, as it has been proved in humans and other animals. In a land of almost non existence of Cancer, you were there to pollute just in 2001 in the war against Iraq, over 100 tons of this DU. Clearly is more easy and cheap (than the treatment) to go and pull out the waste of your plants, instead of bury on some site out of the US, when US and other governments does it actually on countries of the third world.
If DU only affects whosoever were reached by these bullets, then there shouldn't be Cancer, but there it is, and the cases were incremental, not affecting their soldiers which the most has perished, but their children and women.
Some afghans are Taliban, not all. You cannot separate them from each other, as well as the Pakistanis Taliban. If there were no resistance, then you would kill them all, without seeing difference. Their leaders are worried about his members, and expect them to be extremist because they response to the US attack as it were the Jihad for them. If they weren't extremist, they weren't fighting expecting death as they do.
The US may not get benefits now, but they will obviously do in the future, when they controlled the zone, or at least Israel will, then Israel will be the one who export to US. If not, US will have no oil in short time.
If you call me leftist defending so many people, and in your blindness, of an all brainwashed soldier you do not see the massacre, then yes, you can call me all you want leftist, the same reason why here, in Chile, so many people disappear, and were later assassinated by a dictatorship imposed by the US. Only took one dictatorship here, I'm thankful there wasn't war against our Argentinean brothers because of it in 1973, but almost. And yes, believe me Slaver Snipe, our dictatorship, Pinocchio, was a tyrant. Military killing unarmed, innocent people, only for their beliefs.
So, sure, you know about harmony of countries or states being together as one, so you spread disunity between the rest to make them weak, the same US is doing in Middle East, worried most in take their people apart.
Israel got nukes, obviously with coop. of US and other countries. Nuclear nukes. Lots of them. So, are you psychotic of what the neighborhood would expect of this? Israel and US couldn't do it as Wehrmacht to get what they want, that would be evidently non-sense since US was avoiding this from other countries to do it. It would be exactly what they were fighting against. They rather hide, and not do it openly, nor directly.
Now, going On-Topic, I think that the death of Osama will fervent their supporters, as said before, some of them will take the leadership. Not much will change. The US will continue expending wrongly their economy. If it becomes harsh, they will attack increasingly with even more excessive force once and once again.
Peace.
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In first place, the US is who decide who's terrorist and who's not. So your entire point about terrorism is wrong. You Slave Snipe and Nice Boat think in that because are from the US. They attack, when you have attacked in the past, and then they are simply terrorists. They and the arab union has since some time ago been charged in their homelands and then you're surprised of getting bombed! Oh, that was totally unexpected.
I've already said I'm not from the US. I'm from Poland. Last time my country was bombed was when the Red Army was kicking the living shit out of the retreating Nazis. Also, Arabs had pretty friendly relations with the US after World War 2, because Americans really helped with the decolonization of the Middle East. Remember the Suez Canal crisis? Yeah, that time when the US prevented England, France and Israel from kicking Egypt's arse. Quite an act of aggression, eh? Problems started when the islamic extremists decided it's time to wipe Israel off the map and Americans weren't really positive about the idea so they supplied Israel with arms and funds. Another act of aggression, eh? I mean, letting Arabs go along with holocaust-redux would be just fine from your point of view, right? Christ, your views are even more messed up than Middle Eastern politics.
Why do you think Osama trained (and trained his brothers) that seriously? because he was wanting the defense of his people. When extremists he was acquiring are for not good, he was expecting them to believe that hard in what they believe, because he was plenty sure that teaching that way, they were willing to spend their lives for his country, as any other religious would dare. And that's why there in the US are so Christians too, and the only thing they let read in their prison is the bible as example.
The policeman being a criminal.
So you're saying that because he wanted to defend his people he and his Taliban cronies killed so many of them? That's great. I think I'm starting to like the way you think, I think I'll join the police and the next time I witness a robbery in progress I'll shoot the victim instead of the assailant. I mean, you can't rob him if he's dead, so I'd be protecting him just like Osama was protecting the Afghans. Oh wait, that'd actually be a real case of the policeman being a criminal.
I have to point your ignorance about Depleted Uranium, Nice Boat, inasmuch it not a metal, Uranium is a mineral, secondary to this, it contains uranium-238, checked that produces teratogenic effects. It damages many tissues, as it has been proved in humans and other animals. In a land of almost non existence of Cancer, you were there to pollute just in 2001 in the war against Iraq, over 100 tons of this DU. Clearly is more easy and cheap (than the treatment) to go and pull out the waste of your plants, instead of bury on some site out of the US, when US and other governments does it actually on countries of the third world.
Yeah, that's why every American, French and British soldier, especially tank crews, dies from cancer or radiation poisoning within a few months from deployment. I mean, from what you're saying live fire ranges must be the most dangerous and carcinogenic places on Earth... somehow, that's not true. Besides, DU is used not only in munitions but also in modernised Chobham armor - I don't remember any trooper bitching about that, and they sit inside those vehicles for hours and turn out ok. Heck, even the WHO says that DU doesn't present any real health risks. The only way you could be poisoned by the damned thing would be if you ingested or inhaled it - and somehow I don't remember NATO troops force feeding captured Taliban fighters DU powder. Oh, and DU is not a mineral as it doesn't occur naturally - it's a byproduct of nuclear fission, for god's sake. I'm starting to suspect that you don't know anything about science (I mean you obviously can't tell a metal from a mineral, which is like elementary school stuff where I live) and DU munitions are just "evil magical bullits that the satanic zyionists and murricans use to kill babies" from your uneducated perspective.
If DU only affects whosoever were reached by these bullets, then there shouldn't be Cancer, but there it is, and the cases were incremental, not affecting their soldiers which the most has perished, but their children and women.
Citation needed. And no, left wing activist groups don't count. Besides - most of the soldiers have perished? Are you high? Do you even know what the casualty rates in those wars (or modern warfare in general) are?
Some afghans are Taliban, not all. You cannot separate them from each other, as well as the Pakistanis Taliban. If there were no resistance, then you would kill them all, without seeing difference. Their leaders are worried about his members, and expect them to be extremist because they response to the US attack as it were the Jihad for them. If they weren't extremist, they weren't fighting expecting death as they do.
So yeah, they're the crazy bastards who do things like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Du'a_Khalil_Aswad
... why should we let them win again? Because you're feeling butthurt about NATO intervening in ongoing civil wars? I don't think so, Tim.
The US may not get benefits now, but they will obviously do in the future, when they controlled the zone, or at least Israel will, then Israel will be the one who export to US. If not, US will have no oil in short time.
Of course they will get benefits in the long term, like lowering the influence of islamic extremism or having a friendly country or two in the region. Afghans and Iraquis will get benefits too - their economies will grow, their civil liberties will expand. Ultimately, the only people who lose are those dumbass ragheads who think blowing yourself up in a crowded market and killing tens of your compatriots is a good way of making the world a better place.
If you call me leftist defending so many people, and in your blindness, of an all brainwashed soldier you do not see the massacre, then yes, you can call me all you want leftist, the same reason why here, in Chile, so many people disappear, and were later assassinated by a dictatorship imposed by the US. Only took one dictatorship here, I'm thankful there wasn't war against our Argentinean brothers because of it in 1973, but almost. And yes, believe me Slaver Snipe, our dictatorship, Pinocchio, was a tyrant. Military killing unarmed, innocent people, only for their beliefs.
So you'd rather go with being sucked into the Soviet sphere of influence? Yeah, Cold War was bad and Americans did some pretty nasty shit to secure a victory but at least you and your parents had the comfort of being born in an idependent country while I was born in a Soviet puppet state that had "eternal friendship with the USSR" written into its constitution at that time.
So, sure, you know about harmony of countries or states being together as one, so you spread disunity between the rest to make them weak, the same US is doing in Middle East, worried most in take their people apart.
The Middle East is a conflicted place even when left alone, there's no real need of "breaking those people apart". If anything, the US presence in the region offers some hope of order and stability - both Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have mostly been on friendly terms with the US and I'd say they're pretty well off on that deal, no?
Israel got nukes, obviously with coop. of US and other countries. Nuclear nukes. Lots of them. So, are you psychotic of what the neighborhood would expect of this? Israel and US couldn't do it as Wehrmacht to get what they want, that would be evidently non-sense since US was avoiding this from other countries to do it. It would be exactly what they were fighting against. They rather hide, and not do it openly, nor directly.
So yeah, they've got nukes, plenty of them. They didn't use them even when the very existence of their country was threatened in numerous, unprovoked wars with the Arab states. Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, said that Israel should be "wiped off the map". See the difference? The Israelis just want to be left alone and our dear Mahmoud wants to mess their stuff up. For any objective observer it's quite obvious who's the aggressor here - for you it's not, because you're applying double standards because of some crappy ideological bias. You want NATO to be completely perfect and never err while you don't give a damn about their opponents openly and directly speaking of genocide. That's pretty sick, dude.
Now, going On-Topic, I think that the death of Osama will fervent their supporters, as said before, some of them will take the leadership. Not much will change. The US will continue expending wrongly their economy. If it becomes harsh, they will attack increasingly with even more excessive force once and once again.
Peace.
I don't really think you're right, especially since war in Iraq has mostly been over for 2 years and most troops stationed there haven't seen a firefight in months. I certainly hope Afghanistan follows suit and both countries will rebuild free of extremist shitheaded bastards who would gladly stone a 17 year old girl to death because she's been dating the wrong boy.
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Lol irony lol citations lol references from wikipedia. Lol university work lol forums lol Poland lol horses agianst tanks lol. Lol military using DU munitions on already powerful 125mm MBT and 30mm autocannon that-are-already-effective-at-penetrating-armor rounds. Lol everything. Lol. Lol next plot to Operation Flashpoint. Lol Cold War. Lol topic. Lol 2 people talking about something. Lol posts not solving any world issues. Lol edited statement about casualties meaning little even if they are minimal lol offensive to troops lol offensive to families of dead troops lol. Lol Stalin mentality. Lol humanism.
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It took only 2 wars and 100 000+ dead civilians to get him. It could have been worse...
Like, worse like WTC? ;) Or wait, that was not 100 000... No matter, human life is worth equally, no matter of age, skin color or nationality.. from perspective of american rockets... no! i mean crackers! Yes, i mean cheese crackers ofcourse! Well, anyways, at least terrorism have taken big defeat, children in the world can sleep safe, unless they are grandchildren of Gaddafi... Oh damn, oops, sorry USA goverment, i dont know what to say, everything turns out wrongly somehow and i dont want to make you angry at me! :-X
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Life is too complied to talk about Ladem in a off-tpic in Fonline. come on just get fun, dont think about that, you can't change anything, we are to little and insignificant, EVERYONE IS. Even Obama or Osama (weeee word game) are little people.
I only admire Osama because he do something different... and he is now in the history, he will be remembered for long time, he is now inmortal.
But it doesnt matter, we cant change anything, why to be botter? it wont change what will happen or had happen.
Seriously off-topic is about Portal 2 or "Gears of Halo Theft Auto in the Postapocaliptic America" trolling not Osama Bin Ladem's dead
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Life is too complied to talk about Ladem in a off-tpic in Fonline. come on just get fun, dont think about that, you can't change anything, we are to little and insignificant, EVERYONE IS. Even Obama or Osama (weeee word game) are little people.
I only admire Osama because he do something different... and he is now in the history, he will be remembered for long time, he is now inmortal.
But it doesnt matter, we cant change anything, why to be botter? it wont change what will happen or had happen.
Seriously off-topic is about Portal 2 or "Gears of Halo Theft Auto in the Postapocaliptic America" trolling not Osama Bin Ladem's dead
Listen to this poster... please
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Life is too complied to talk about Ladem in a off-tpic in Fonline. come on just get fun, dont think about that, you can't change anything, we are to little and insignificant, EVERYONE IS. Even Obama or Osama (weeee word game) are little people.
I only admire Osama because he do something different... and he is now in the history, he will be remembered for long time, he is now inmortal.
But it doesnt matter, we cant change anything, why to be botter? it wont change what will happen or had happen.
Seriously off-topic is about Portal 2 or "Gears of Halo Theft Auto in the Postapocaliptic America" trolling not Osama Bin Ladem's dead
Absolutely no one is forcing you to read/think/write about that.
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lol forums lol Poland lol horses agianst tanks lol.
That's Soviet propaganda, never happened in reality.
Lol military using DU munitions on already powerful 125mm MBT and 30mm autocannon that-are-already-effective-at-penetrating-armor rounds.
Let's see...
Leopard 2A6 turret front: 940mm RHA
T80U turret front: 850mm RHA
M1A2 SEP turret front: 960mm RHA
T72B with K-1 ERA turret front: 550mm RHA
T72M turret front: 380mm RHA
T55 turret front: 220mm RHA
M2A2/A3 Bradley turret front: 110mm RHA
BMP-1 turret front: 23mm RHA
US M829A3 120mm DU tank cannon round fired from Rheinmetal L-44 cannon: approx. 765mm at 2km
US M829A2 120mm DU tank cannon round fired from Rheinmetal L-44 cannon: approx. 730mm at 2km
German 120mm DM-33 Tungsten tank cannon round fired from Rheinmetal L-44 cannon: approx. 550mm at 2km
just for kicks and giggles:
25mm M919 APFSDS DU autocannon round 30mm+ at 60 degrees at 2km
25mm M791 APDS Tungsten autocannon round 33mm at 60 degrees at 1km; 28mm at 60 degrees at 2km
... yeah, let's totally defang our militaries so that their tank cannons barely defeat a 30 year old Soviet tank's front armor in the name of some obscure health risks that may or may not be involved in using the superior DU ammunition. And no, autocannons are not capable of defeating modern IFVs with front turret hits and barely manage to defeat obsolete BMP-1s. And yes, turret front is the most relevant section of armor when making comparisons because vehicles tend to be fighting from hull-down positions whenever feasible. Try trolling harder next time.
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Lol? Where did you get that information? Wikipedia? Lol. Can I get some actual names of people or books, references ect.? Where do you find such interesting information? Citations, bro?
Also any smart tank commander (assuming they are unfortunate enough to be the proud owner of horrible Soviet armor) will not,
for one, order a hull down agianst superior tank/air forces. Until the late 80s most Soviet tanks did not have the hull down capability of it's NATO counterpart. Even at that the shitty slopped armor design was more or less an echo from past WW2 experiences when the Soviet prefered armor doctrine was basically "Lol outnumber spam kekekekek flank spam rush go" not suited to your "hull down" tactics where as an Abrams gunner can comfortabley load shells and fire at targets miles away accuractly while sipping Coffee.
Also what moron(s) are telling you these lies? I've seen with my own eyes some old Shilka being destroyed by AP .50 cal ammunition. They destroyed the AA vehicle. What more do you want? A dead crew? But I suppose someone like you cares little for life and wants the crew to suffer aswell. Just because DU is "superior" it warrants over human life? The families get to suffer too! Or even yet, you'd make an air vehicle go and destroy the AA with it's 30mm cannon and watch in disbelief as the rounds magically bounced off due to superior HULL DOWN TACTICS LOL? Amirite? That's what you're basically saying. You really know very little. I almost lol'd when you said 30mm autocannons couldn't even destroy a BMP-1. You're a funny guy. You'd make great comedian in America. ^_____________^
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Two words:
File Burning.
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Lol? Where did you get that information? Wikipedia? Lol. Can I get some actual names of people or books, references ect.? Where do you find such interesting information? Citations, bro?
Tanknet and Jane's Defence Guide. Feasible enough?
Also any smart tank commander (assuming they are unfortunate enough to be the proud owner of horrible Soviet armor) will not,
for one, order a hull down agianst superior tank/air forces. Until the late 80s most Soviet tanks did not have the hull down capability of it's NATO counterpart. Even at that the shitty slopped armor design was more or less an echo from past WW2 experiences when the Soviet prefered armor doctrine was basically "Lol outnumber spam kekekekek flank spam rush go" not suited to your "hull down" tactics where as an Abrams gunner can comfortabley load shells and fire at targets miles away accuractly while sipping Coffee.
All tanks have hull down capability, it's situational and depends on the terrain and the presence of fortifications. Sloped armor is not a "shitty design" and is still being widely used as it increases relative armor thickness and increases the probability of a ricochet. Actually, every single 3rd generation MBT utilizes sloped armor as it's just a smart thing to do. Soviet tanks were far from being horrible. Abrams gunner doesn't load ammunition, it's a loader's job. Basically, the only thing you've said that is even remotely true is the fact that Soviet doctrine emphasized offensive action over defence, but that's pretty much obvious given the theatre of war they were expecting to face.
Also what moron(s) are telling you these lies? I've seen with my own eyes some old Shilka being destroyed by AP .50 cal ammunition. They destroyed the AA vehicle.
A Shilka has weaker armor than a BMP. Actually, a BMP can feasibly be destroyed by .50 cal as well, just not from the front.
What more do you want? A dead crew? But I suppose someone like you cares little for life and wants the crew to suffer aswell. Just because DU is "superior" it warrants over human life? The families get to suffer too!
A penetration is a penetration is a penetration is a penetration. No difference between Tungsten or DU. And yeah, HEAT is even worse when it comes to crew survivability. So? Weapons are designed to destroy targets, a kinetic sabot round that penetrates over 700mm of RHA is better than a kinetic sabot round that penetrates 550mm of RHA, that's all there is to it.
Or even yet, you'd make an air vehicle go and destroy the AA with it's 30mm cannon and watch in disbelief as the rounds magically bounced off due to superior HULL DOWN TACTICS LOL? Amirite? That's what you're basically saying. You really know very little.
I don't know what you're disputing, but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with what I've written about the capabilities of tank and IFV armaments.
I almost lol'd when you said 30mm autocannons couldn't even destroy a BMP-1. You're a funny guy. You'd make great comedian in America. ^_____________^
Care to quote? I've said something quite to the contrary.
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Hah, can't help but laugh and smile at this.
You do realize that the whole thing is a load of bullshit right?
The person you think you know : no more than an actor.
How does somebody die, if they never existed in first place?
hm
Word.
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This post is like Santa Claus is dead. OMG who cares ?
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A lot of people care, for example all the US people celebrating (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5XVAugy_3I&feature=player_embedded)* (video from Jescri's post), and their president saying "We can do any bullshit we put our minds into - we got the moneh, the powah and we are the United States of America, fuck yeah."
*Also, have you noticed this?
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7918/banderak.jpg)
Proud American doesn't realize he's not holding the flag the way he should to make it look correct from the camera point of view. But well, why would proud Americans care about relativism?
I don't understand how USA could be fighting for "balance". They decide who is terrorist and who is not, who is a tyrant and who is not, who is corrupt and who is not, who is a drug addict and who is not, who is a murderer and who is not, etc. In other words, they decide what is right and what is not, without caring about the culture, laws and independence of other countries. Sure, I too think what they do with/to women is not right in the Middle East. However 1) there are already women's movements which are independent from the USA, so no need to have the USA shooting around for that, and 2) they have a different culture, so who the fuck are the Americans anyway to say it's wrong and shoot because of that? The Middle East is not the only place where women are not treated right, you can find sexism in Western cultures as well, a different form of sexism, would that not make it ok for the Arabs to invade Western countries? USA just like to say "lol they is barbarians, it is our duty to keel".
The USA do have colonies, they are just called "unincorporated territories".
"Would you rather have another European world war?"
Heh, Europe is not the world, man! So you think it's better to have a war in the Middle East than in Europe so Arabs die instead of Europeans? Sounds almost like racism to me.
If the US police the world, who will police the US so they stop their atrocities? Like in Guantanamo to give an example. So the US gotta dictate who's a terrorist and who's not, while they kill and torture just because they are "being rough at keeping balance"? How can that be seen as balance?
Argentina (my country) and Latin America in general don't need USA to keep any bullshit "balance". Come on, people, get real, they just freak out when a country has a government that doesn't want to suck USA's dick.
It is a lie to say USA fights for balance instead of political and economic domination. Heck, even cultural (we are fucking tired of your cliche Hollywood films) and ideological (American Dream? Yeah right). It's even funny how they call themselves "Americans". Hello USA people! we are Americans too! This (http://www.turismo-latino.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/estados-unidos.png) is different from this (http://learnspanishdc.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/america-map.jpg)! Not all the continent belongs to you, no matter how much you'd like it!
"USA fighting for balance" is a complete bullshit. I am from Argentina, a country that has been taking shit from the USA for decades, like many others. Thanks to the USA, our economy was ruined (thank you for all the deidustrialization, unemployement and poverty!). A lot of Argentineans were killed or kidnapped, because, "zomg! there are commies in Argentina!", during our military dictatorships (but especially in the late 70's), which wanted to open my county's arms to USA domination. And they killed people because they were "evil subversives" when they were just people that decided to grab weapons because they could not do politics democratically. Why not? because if the left won the elections, the military would bring them down with a coup just like they had done six times before with other governments they didn't like. What was their excuse? just like Nice_boat said, "ZOMG USSR PUPPETS! lets shoot them and impose an ETERNAL FRIENDSHIP WITH THE US!" (but not in our Constituion, cause they didn't even care about the Constitution ;)) So thanks USA for "defending democracy"!
And nowadays Argentina, along with other Latin American countries, just wants independence and to make a solid alliance with our Latin neighbours, but guess what! USA has to be there calling our politicians corrupt and even drug addicts, or trying to show how "awesome and powerful" they are by not giving a fuck about local regulation and laws (trying to smuggle undeclared military equipment and drugs into my country) and even bitching about our "disturbing attitude" when we are just defending our laws.
What the fuck are we even doing to the USA!? We never bombed any American nice looking building, or anything. We don't cause any problem and just want to be left alone. So please, USA, get on your nice boats and sail back home.
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That's funny Eternauta, are you telling me you haven't been to a crazy celebration where you are PROBABLY drunk and don't really care about which way you are holding something? Ill take that as a no. Why do you have a problem with us calling ourselves Americans hmm? you could call yourself an American if you wish to. We have been calling ourselves American forever i don't see how it's a problem really, Our nation is called the United States of America, what would you prefer we call ourselves, The United?
If your tired of our movies, don't watch them.
I have yet to know another American who thinks people from the middle east are "barbarians" please don't speak about what Americans think if you are not one of them mmmmmmk?
Why are you bringing up history from the 70's? What does that have to do with today when most/almost all politicians/leaders are no longer in charge from 40 years ago? What exactly does that have to do with current day America?
Btw why is it the USA's fault your economy is in ruins? I'm quite curious as i have heard nothing about this, Did you rely on us to sell goods to? Did we somehow steal your jobs? Did our economy crashing ruin yours? Oh My Fucking God I Am So Sorry That You Are Also Facing Hardships.
I would love to see your own country have to put up with having to say who is a terrorist, no matter who you declare as one others will hate you for it.
Atrocities in Guantanamo lol. What would your leaders be willing to do to save lives of countrymen? If you had decent intel that someone planned to plant a bomb that would kill hundreds or thousands what measures would your leaders take to stop it i wonder. Is it better to torture one to stop a terrorist act or to let hundreds of innocents die?
P.S. Don't talk about Americans in general, it is unfair to at LEAST 30-40% of the population in almost all topics considering that amount of people will undoubtedly disagree with what is going on in a given situation.
(Also have to point out it's two continents, not one.)
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World isn't pink and peaceful. While being far from any US fanboy, as I don't like that country and its nation in general, I'd rather want them do the dirty job that needs to be done, than any other "powerful" country. It's just lesser evil.
"We can do any bullshit we put our minds into - we got the moneh, the powah and we are the United States of America, fuck yeah."
If you think that there is any country in the world that doesn't try putting bullshit into others' minds in order to achieve particular goals, then you are either very young or you just don't have an idea about what's going on. That's how things are ran.
Btw you put too many emotions into your posts. Just a hint, this is what makes them looking childish in some parts, maybe chill?
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Back on the topic. Fucker's dead. What now, do the Jihad receive a martyr figure? Will the Talibs start a rampage tour through EU? Who will prevail in FOnline Special Olympics?
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osama bin ladin hide and seak champion 2001-2011
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Slaver Snipe: yes I "bring history from the 70's" because it has to do with the current situation of my country. the '76-'83 dictatorship was a first step to introduce neoliberalism in Argentina, as there was a lot of left wing or at least anti-imperialist resistance, which needed to be shot. Its economical and political consequences can be seen even today, but were especially obvious during our 2001 crisis. And are you surprised you didn't know about it? They won't tell you "ya know, there are these countries which we fucked up good...".
And it has to do with current day America because, like I already said, we don't want to cause any trouble to you yet your media keeps calling our politicians corrupt and your army has tried to smuggle undeclared objects into my country, which means violating our law, and you even say we react in a kind of agressive way, when we just want to defend our laws.
Why do I have a problem with you calling themselves Americans? I already explained (or did you not even read my post?):
Hello USA people! we are Americans too! This (http://www.turismo-latino.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/estados-unidos.png) is different from this (http://learnspanishdc.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/america-map.jpg)! Not all the continent belongs to you, no matter how much you'd like it!
And no matter if America is one or two continents (in fact both are right, depending on the model you are following (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent#Number_of_continents)), USA is not America. It is in America, which is different. If you ever decide to get a new gentilic, that's something you guys gotta make up, not me (btw, in Spanish we say "estadounidense" - from Estados Unidos).
The "barbarians" thing was just a joke, a reference to the ancient Greeks: the Greeks used to call "Barbarians" those who were from different cultures, but, most importantly, those who did not speak Greek (because "barbaros" sounds like babbling - as if not speaking Greek meant not speaking any language).
Oh My Fucking God I Am So Sorry That You Are Also Facing Hardships.
Nice sarcasm there. Yes we are facing hardships, and yes it's because of USA imperialism. Thanks for proving you don't give a shit about the countries the USA are supposed to "police" and "bring balance to".
I would love to see your own country have to put up with having to say who is a terrorist, no matter who you declare as one others will hate you for it.
We won't. You know why? because we are not interested in all that stupid bullshit, because we are not imperialist, we just want to be as ok as we can be without making other countries suffer for that.
Atrocities in Guantanamo lol. What would your leaders be willing to do to save lives of countrymen? If you had decent intel that someone planned to plant a bomb that would kill hundreds or thousands what measures would your leaders take to stop it i wonder. Is it better to torture one to stop a terrorist act or to let hundreds of innocents die?
That will never happen, because we are not a country hated by so many people from all over the world. Also it's funny how you say "Atrocities in Guantanamo lol" - Right I get it, if China tortures or kills someone, they are evil, but if USA kills or tortures someone, they are paying the price for world balance. Come on.
Don't talk about Americans in general
Why not?
you put too many emotions into your posts.
Kilgore, I think you didn't say that with a bad intention, but I fail to understand why I cannot "put emotions" into my posts. My country is a country as well, why can I not express what I think? And why am I the one that should not "put emotions" while USA-supporters express their thoughts the way they feel like? Are my thoughts and emotions less important because of my nationality? are they less important because my country is not a big imperialist one? Once again I'm sure you didn't want to insult me or anything, but I can't help but think some people believe "the Argentinean guy cannot express his bullshit".
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To go back on the topic, I think the OBL's death will not resolve the terrorist actions. I think that terrorists actions will be more violent in USA ... why ? Because USA killed one of the terrorist leader, their icon, and now they are celebrating OBL death as the best new of the century without any modesty.
It would be like Terrorist killed Obama, and they were making a great party to celebrate it. I think that USA would air strike all of them, and send all the terrorists family in jail, or in Guantanamo.
So now, terrorist have even more "good" reasons for making attacks.
(and damn, why have them killed him ? I wanted to capture him later to have the gift and be rich ! 8))
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You just want to be okay without making other countries suffer? How about defaulting on a massive debt and being saved by the IMF, oh and don't forget the US, which has the most "pull" in the IMF voted to help your country. Guess you DO forget about the good things the US does, when it was YOUR countries fuck up that brought that about. Yes, i read your post it doesn't explain why you dislike us calling ourselves American when it's been going on for more than 200 years, It has nothing to do with us "thinking" we own North and South America or trying to act like we do, you need to learn that child. About your previous posts about all south American countries just want to form strong bonds with each other etc. I doubt colombia or the other nations that receive massive foreign aid from us would agree.
First you bring up Guantanamo then China, two completely different situations please read some more then post a relevant reply.
Of course your country isn't as hated "all" over the world, you are very small on the world stage thus your fuck ups are not put into a spotlight like ours are.
Yes, seems like terrorism doesn't happen in your country.
https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/terrorism-profile-argentina
I would have to say if that could have been avoided by the torture of one person your leader at the time would have done it.
Now with that information if i wanted to be like you and generalize all Argentinians i could say that your terrorist supporting debt defaulting assholes who forget the good of others. Fair? I guess so if you can generalize Americans as you do.
At OP, do you know how many prisoners have even been in Guantanamo? Families of terrorists do not go there.
At BP, Off-topic discussions, perhaps that means not related to game perhaps it means de-railing threads.
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@Eternauta, SlaverSnipe
GTFO my OBL topic with your offtop shitstorm and whatnot. Both of you.
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I'm saddened by one thing : our lilberties have been restricted for 10 years to fight terrorism, and now that the symbol of terrorism is dead, the first thing government (in france at least) does is "enforce more rules and security because there might be revenge actions"... So still less rights to move around as you please, dress as you like, carry what you want, talk to people you want, have religion you want... When is this gonna end ? I want to be able to cary shampoo when i take plane (just an example :)) !
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Tanknet and Jane's Defence Guide. Feasible enough?
Citations, bro? Source? Hardly feasible.
All tanks have hull down capability, it's situational and depends on the terrain and the presence of fortifications. Sloped armor is not a "shitty design" and is still being widely used as it increases relative armor thickness and increases the probability of a ricochet.
If you believe a 120mm round cannot penetrate soviet armor at any slope, angle or distance... well, you might as well spend that excess penetration power by lining up 2 T90s and calling it a day. Metamorphically speaking without any patriotic fanaticism... a very large knife through butter. Balls down (lol) or not. Shitty slopped design, shitty soviet armor. Couldn't prove me wrong otherwise even twisting my words. Care to quote? But anyways in regard to DU ammunition, it's pretty much overkill. Literally. But we're going on a tangent from this initial thread's nature and I no longer wish to discuss with a fail troll that had the nerve to ask for "citations" while giving out wikipedia links. Major dead giveaway. At the university level (lol forums), using wikipedia = perma ban from campus. Troll harder, kid, troll harder.
A Shilka has weaker armor than a BMP. Actually, a BMP can feasibly be destroyed by .50 cal as well, just not from the front.
I can be an anal retentive douchebag, too! Look, this would make be right about two things. Contradicting what you wrote earlier. Fail!
That's Soviet propaganda, never happened in reality.
Author of "The Tin Drum" would say otherwise. Polish soldiers mounting horses agianst tanks. Although being a novel of very satire nature... might as well be a comic fallacy over truth.
... yeah, let's totally defang our militaries so that their tank cannons barely defeat a 30 year old Soviet tank's front armor
Whatever the hell you're smoking please share!. Opting out from DU munitions would hardly "defang" our militaries, but Poland already does pretty good job of that on it's own accord. =}
P.S I take back everything I said about shitty Soviet tank designs with shitty slopped armor. They are wonderful. Soviet tanks were causing more harm to the crews than any enemy ever could. I never seen such a lackluster effort in protecting tank crews. How's your loaders' limbs feeling today? Wasn't aware tanks can be operated without crews.
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Citations, bro? Source? Hardly feasible.
I'm not going to dig into tanknet archives or 8000+ page long "Jane's Armour and Artillery" to prove a troll wrong. That doesn't mean there's no other sources though. So - incoming, take cover.
If you believe a 120mm round cannot penetrate soviet armor at any slope, angle or distance... well, you might as well spend that excess penetration power by lining up 2 T90s and calling it a day. Metamorphically speaking without any patriotic fanaticism... a very large knife through butter. Balls down (lol) or not. Shitty slopped design, shitty soviet armor. Couldn't prove me wrong otherwise even twisting my words. Care to quote? But anyways in regard to DU ammunition, it's pretty much overkill. Literally. But we're going on a tangent from this initial thread's nature and I no longer wish to discuss with a fail troll that had the nerve to ask for "citations" while giving out wikipedia links. Major dead giveaway. At the university level (lol forums), using wikipedia = perma ban from campus. Troll harder, kid, troll harder.
No, it can't even penetrate a Kontakt-5 equipped T-Effin-Seventy-Two, not to mention more resilient designs like T-80U or T-90:
Speaking at a conference on Future Armoured Warfare in London in May, IDR's Pentagon correspondent Leland Ness explained that US tests involved firing trials of Russian-built T-72 tanks fitted with Kontakt 5 explosive reactive armor (ERA). In contrast to the original, or `light', type of ERA which is effective only against shaped charge jets, the `heavy' Kontakt 5 ERA is also effective against the long-rod penetrators of APFSDS (armor-piercing, fin-stabilized, discarding sabot) tank gun projectiles. When fitted to T-72 tanks, the `heavy' ERA made them immune to the DU penetrators of M829 APFSDS, fired by the 120mm guns of US M1 Abrams tanks, which are among the most formidable of current tank gun projectiles.
Source:
http://articles.janes.com/articles/International-Defence-Review-97/IMPENETRABLE-RUSSIAN-TANK-ARMOR-STANDS-UP-TO-EXAMINATION.html
I think it's enough to establish that you're wrong and a bad troll on top of that, so please stop posting now.
I can be an anal retentive douchebag, too! Look, this would make be right about two things. Contradicting what you wrote earlier. Fail!
How does that make me wrong? The BMP-1s front armor is very sharply sloped and thicker than side or rear, so it can't be penetrated even by repeated .50 cal hits and yes, it can barely be penetrated by autocannons. On the sides and the rear it's not sloped at all, so repeated .50 cal hits could result in a penetration. Shilka's armor isn't as effective on any side. Since I was discussing front armor from the beginning, you're quoting out of context which, sadly, yet again proves you as a bad troll.
Author of "The Tin Drum" would say otherwise. Polish soldiers mounting horses agianst tanks. Although being a novel of very satire nature... might as well be a comic fallacy over truth.
I don't care about the author of "The Tin Drum", I care about historical facts. Polish cavalry was equipped with ATGs, learn to read ToE. Besides - you made the claim, it's on your shoulders to prove it. As far as I know the charge at Krojanty is the only instance of an incident involving Polish cavalry and German tanks where the cavalry was presented as charging the tanks with melee weapons, but it was later proven to be a fraud.
Whatever the hell you're smoking please share!. Opting out from DU munitions would hardly "defang" our militaries, but Poland already does pretty good job of that on it's own accord. =}
Opting out from DU munitions would result in using underperforming munitions, which in turn would defang our militaries, yes. Polish military, despite its shortcomings, is still the most capable ex-WP military in the region.
P.S I take back everything I said about shitty Soviet tank designs with shitty slopped armor. They are wonderful. Soviet tanks were causing more harm to the crews than any enemy ever could. I never seen such a lackluster effort in protecting tank crews. How's your loaders' limbs feeling today? Wasn't aware tanks can be operated without crews.
Yeah, they're uncomfortable. Yeah, they have crappy ammo storage that causes unnecessary crew casualties when the vehicle is taken out of action. And yes, tanks can be operated without a loader, machine autoloaders are pretty much standard in Soviet and some Asian designs.
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"This is of course, provided that the round strikes the ERA, which only covers 60% of the frontal aspect of the T-72 series tank mounted with it."
Also perhaps a more recent article would be relative to this discussion.
How does that make me wrong? The BMP-1s front armor is very sharply sloped and thicker than side or rear, so it can't be penetrated even by repeated .50 cal hits and yes, it can barely be penetrated by autocannons. On the sides and the rear it's not sloped at all, so repeated .50 cal hits could result in a penetration. Shilka's armor isn't as effective on any side. Since I was discussing front armor from the beginning, you're quoting out of context which, sadly, yet again proves you as a bad troll.
Entirely wrong! I was mocking you on a point from which you, yourself took out of context. Anyways, it only reinforces my past argument on the subject. You're simply agreeing with the stance I made by using the BMP as a tangent. Although I have to admit my original argument was of a moot point. Why are we discussing .50 ammunitions? By you defining me as a troll, did you per se, take the troll bait?
edit: I'd like to keep your country out of this and perhaps our discussions all-together in the form of PMs. But hey, w/e is w/e.
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Lizard, did you really expect a thread like this not to end up in a flame-ish discussion about the USA? I was just participating in a discussion started by my non-offtopic post (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=15854.msg131309#msg131309) but that had been done mostly by Cogliostro and Nice_Boat. They both gave their opinions, their discussion kept on and nobody told them to gtfo, so why can't I give my opinions?
Slaver Snipe: Who brought the debt to my country? The neoliberals. Who want to pay the debt? The current government. And you even say we make other countries suffer when the USA invades or destroys the economy in other countries? Now I do believe in balance.
And I why did you need to call us "fuck ups"? Don't put so much rage in your post, it makes you look childish.
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OSAMA STILL LIVE IN MOUTAINS :>
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"This is of course, provided that the round strikes the ERA, which only covers 60% of the frontal aspect of the T-72 series tank mounted with it."
So you're saying gunners would have to aim at the remaining 40%, eh? And that it wouldn't affect their performance on the battlefield? Come on, you know that's a ridiculous claim, especially since when it comes to the turret you'd basically have to hit the gun mantle which is a very small target.
Also perhaps a more recent article would be relative to this discussion.
Even the first generation DU M829 performs comparably to the newest Tungsten counterparts fired from 120mm/L-44 (maybe with the exception of stuff like DM-53), yet it failed to penetrate Kontakt-5 fitted T-72. You were saying DU munitions are an overkill and Tungsten APFSDS rounds are enough. I was saying they're barely enough or, in some cases, might prove less effective than desirable. Heck, even the most modern DU rounds like M829A3 are far from being an overkill and may not guarantee a kill on hit as nowadays the proverbial armor and the spear are pretty evenly matched, so basically there's no such thing as "enough penetration" unless you're shooting at T-55s or export T-72s with no ERA. Basically, I proved you wrong. I proved you "your claim was so ridiculously overblown it was definitely retarded" wrong on the "pierce a hole through 2 T-90s with a 120mm DU APFSDS" part. What more do you want? Let's just leave it at that.
Entirely wrong! I was mocking you on a point from which you, yourself took out of context. Anyways, it only reinforces my past argument on the subject. You're simply agreeing with the stance I made by using the BMP as a tangent. Although I have to admit my original argument was of a moot point. Why are we discussing .50 ammunitions? By you defining me as a troll, did you per se, take the troll bait?
Let's recapitulate. I was saying 25mm autocannon launched M919 is barely enough to consistently (meaning not on 40% of hits, not on 60% of hits, not on 80% of hits but on 99,99% of hits because as we probably both know miracles do happen) penetrate BMP-1s front armor. You said it was bullshit because a .50 cal round can penetrate a Shilka. I said Shilka is not relevant to the discussion because it's nowhere near as resilient as BMP-1. That's basically it - and yeah, sorry for taking the troll bait and beginning to discuss .50 cal in the first place. And let's keep in mind that BMP-1 is a ridiculously outdated IFV - Bradleys and probably BMP-3s (I admit I don't know much about the latter, so I'll take a wild guess here) are significantly better armored, so they'd be a bad target for an autocannon at long ranges even when using DU penetrators. That's precisely why modern IFVs have ATGMs to engage hard targets - the autocannon is for taking out stuff like APCs, cars and for providing suppressive fire due to high ROF. And please, let's keep the helicopters and ground attack planes out of this, there's been enough bullshit comparisons in this thread already.
edit: I'd like to keep your country out of this and perhaps our discussions all-together in the form of PMs. But hey, w/e is w/e.
I'm glad, especially since I haven't said a single word about your country - and if I'm right and you're Russian, there'd be a lot to criticize when it comes to how your army has been faring lately when compared to what you've had 30 years ago.
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Polish soldiers mounting horses agianst tanks.
....and then....
Whatever the hell you're smoking please share!.
Someone was talking about the comedian we've got here, but it seems that he's the one. Congrats
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Oh forgive me for insulting Poland. But to me more precise it is not I who plays the buffon but the many of writers who collaborated together to tell lies on poor Poland!. For shame! Off with their heads! ;D
With my sincere apologies I as I do not want to incur the wrath which is Poland! Take these broc flower and xander root. Together, they make healing powder.
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I showed the "rage" in my posts to show you exactly what kilgore meant about your posts darling.
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OSAMA PK'ed 3000 people on 9/11 and APK's hunted him down.
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Argentina cannot into space
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I showed the "rage" in my posts to show you exactly what kilgore meant about your posts darling.
OSAMA PK'ed 3000 people on 9/11 and APK's hunted him down.
Argentina cannot into space
Golden comments.
Want me to get back on topic? I don't think Bin Laden's dead was something good, or bad. I didn't really care about that man, as he obviously was not Mother Theresa. What I can't stand is the USA being so proud of shooting an old man who was a criminal. In democracy, criminals get a trial, they get shot in dictatorships. The USA are far from defending democracy.
Also, I don't personally think Bin Laden was as much of a threat as an individual, so I don't see the point in celebrating his death (at lesat as a victory in a fight in the middle of a war) or thinking the war on terrorism (which is a lie anyway) is over.
Bin Laden's dead was in my opinion just to make Obama look like a hero in shining armor, but doesn't really add much to USA's victory in the war on terrorism, which, like I already said, is completely a lie, as these "acts of terrorism" are an expression against imperialism. Not the best kind of way to fight against imperialism? right, we agree on that, but USA is still imperialist.
Also, sorry to insist, but Al Qaida and the Islamics in general are not much of a threat to humankind as the United States is and has been for decades and decades.
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Report: Al-Qaida Confirms Osama bin Laden's Death
so we are now 100% sure. Lol
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Oh forgive me for insulting Poland. But to me more precise it is not I who plays the buffon but the many of writers who collaborated together to tell lies on poor Poland!. For shame! Off with their heads! ;D
With my sincere apologies I as I do not want to incur the wrath which is Poland! Take these broc flower and xander root. Together, they make healing powder.
Obvious troll is obvious
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Golden comments.
Want me to get back on topic? I don't think Bin Laden's dead was something good, or bad. I didn't really care about that man, as he obviously was not Mother Theresa. What I can't stand is the USA being so proud of shooting an old man who was a criminal. In democracy, criminals get a trial, they get shot in dictatorships. The USA are far from defending democracy.
Also, I don't personally think Bin Laden was as much of a threat as an individual, so I don't see the point in celebrating his death (at lesat as a victory in a fight in the middle of a war) or thinking the war on terrorism (which is a lie anyway) is over.
I wholeheartly agree with you, but you gotta see the flip side of the coin. Bin Laden was for many US citizens "the root of all evil", even if it sounds inane for most of us. USA never really experienced a real war in their own country ("just" Pearl Harbor and , with some abstractions, the 9/11) - while the rest of the world, especially here in europe, already had its fair share of tragedies in war and is sensitized for that kind of stuff. That's why you rarely see people celebrating on the streets here when some man got killed/dragged to the trail. The americans lack this part in their short history of the country - 9/11 caused a bigger collective shock in their minds than we can understand. No war in their country for them - fortunately ofcourse, I have to say, no one wishes another country a war. That's why I can partly understand why so many US citizens jump on the streets and celebrate, because the symbolic character behind this shock is now "gone". I don't think that most of them don't understand that he can be replaced by just another person to repeat the terror, it's just the symbolic nature.
I too feel rather disgusted by people celebrating another mans death, especially when they usually feel superior to other cultures where people do the same, f.e in islamic cultures etc. Ofcourse I often say "hurr, americans bad!11 ;P" in a humoristic way, because some stuff the people there do feels pretty alien to me or un-understandable. But as said - you always gotta see the flip side of the coin.
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Good point, I think what you said makes some sense but I'm not sure if "entirely". The USA, as you said, never had a shocking experience on their ground like Europe did in both World Wars, but there were USA troops fighting there and they were witnesses and, what might be even worse, protagonists of the agony and destruction Europe was going through (no matter whether they agreed on fighting or not).
I think saying "USA is evil" (the same way the talk about the root of Evil) is too simple and empty, but at the same time I can't understand this. Do their media have a heavy effect on them? could be (I can say some of that happens in my country) but I personally can't be sure. Have they leant nothing from those two experiences? Hard to believe, too.
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Yes, but it's a difference beeing sent to some other country to "aid" in war for the "greater good" or if your very own homeland get's directly attacked/invaded.
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How about i put it this way, Osama was our version of Hitler, (At least for this generation) he may not have murdered nearly as many but he did it to US. How many celebrated when Hitler/third Reich fell?
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How about i put it this way, Osama was our version of Hitler, (At least for this generation) he may not have murdered nearly as many but he did it to US. How many celebrated when Hitler/third Reich fell?
It's a bit of a far exaggarated stretch, but yes, this sounds about right.
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How about i put it this way, Osama was our version of Hitler, (At least for this generation) he may not have murdered nearly as many but he did it to US.
What do you mean when you say "US"? "United States" or a highlighted "us"? If it's a highlighted "us", do you mean Bin Laden is like Hitler because he killed Americans (like, giving a lot of importance to American deaths)?
Also (no matter what the answer to the previous question is), and sorry to come up with this again, but, our military were trained and encouraged by the US. Our military would be "like Hitler", and USA would be like the one giving orders to Hitler about killing (or maybe Hitler themselves). What would you say about that? Especially when fact is we don't want to invade USA for what they did.
(Please note, I don't personally support that "it's like Hitler" kind of thought, but I am just sticking to your point, as you did say Osama is like Hitler for USA)
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Figured I'd drop the bomb. The USA has had a full on invasion on their homeland before. There was the Revolution (Britain vs American colonies) and there's the continous Illegal Immigrant invasion. :P
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Bin Laden's dead was in my opinion just to make Obama look like a hero in shining armor, but doesn't really add much to USA's victory in the war on terrorism ...
Yep, Obama is trying to get as much credit for killing Bin Laden as he can so that his approval rating goes up for 2012 election. Simple politics. :>
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So we trained your army and that somehow relates to your military being like hitler? I don't see the connection in any way shape or form. Osama being liked hitler was just to make a point, it's our most recent struggle and one of the few of this generation, as hitler and the third reich was the struggle of that generation. It doesn't require you to support him being equated to a US hitler due to the fact your not from the US. Ask US citizens who is/was the worst person in the world and Osama will probably come up more often than Hitler due to it being recent.
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So we trained your army and that somehow relates to your military being like hitler? I don't see the connection in any way shape or form.
Osama kills Americans -> Osama is like Hitler for the USA
USA trains and encourages our military to kill Argentineans -> USA/the military Junta is like Hitler for Argentina
Osama being liked hitler was just to make a point, it's our most recent struggle and one of the few of this generation, as hitler and the third reich was the struggle of that generation. It doesn't require you to support him being equated to a US hitler due to the fact your not from the US.
Hmm I'm not sure I got your point. If you are just saying Osama is like Hitler for the Americans only (that is, from the avarage American's point of view), because of the American deaths, then I can say I understand you, which of course doesn't mean I agree. Also, I'd like the Americans to realize how much their country makes and has made other countries suffer, for example mine. But it seems that talking about the history of my country automatically makes me a "butthurt hippie".
Ask US citizens who is/was the worst person in the world and Osama will probably come up more often than Hitler due to it being recent.
You are completely right about that. But it's sad because, in my opinion, it means Americans don't care about history and only care about themselves.
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Eternauta, I'm not saying you are wrong or right; but can you give specific examples of how the US has made Argentina suffer? You seem to be using the US as a scapegoat.
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Apparently Americans are the root of all argentina's problem Abe, i thought you knew that ::) Apparently we destroyed their economy, not themselves, we made their governments evil etc etc.
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Apparently Americans are the root of all argentina's problem Abe, i thought you knew that ::) Apparently we destroyed their economy, not themselves, we made their governments evil etc etc.
you amerciains are all evi :Pl but yes i agree with some people on this fourm that america does fuck up some countrys and goes into wars they should keep out of and just mind there own business and let countrys fight it out. america is not world police no one asked them to be and no one wants them to be plain and simple.
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What is with the "no one" comments, can you truly say that for the more than 6 billion people on earth not one of them want America to be the "world police"?
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Apparently Americans are the root of all argentina's problem Abe, i thought you knew that ::) Apparently we destroyed their economy, not themselves, we made their governments evil etc etc.
oh for god sake, i know how this over, everyone will still believing the same things, the other guys are wrong, im right.etc etc
also i come from mexico, just imagine what is my country: a USA whore. but i dont give a shit to that. i cant chage it, i (and we all) can only try to live happy, dont be poor, and die clicking morphin, in my country the young people wish to change the thinks, its impossible, no one can do that, even osama or obama, you will only be disapointed.
some inteligent moderator must close this post, or let us keep trolling, maybe we find more in-game enemies, wich is good
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I like the fact that you say some intelligent moderator should close this when Abe just posted a few minutes ago, Are you saying he is not intelligent? :-X
BP, Then he needs more power!
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I like the fact that you say some intelligent moderator should close this when Abe just posted a few minutes ago, Are you saying he is not intelligent? :-X
He is a moderator in the bug board, not here.
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Hah, can't help but laugh and smile at this.
You do realize that the whole thing is a load of bullshit right?
The person you think you know : no more than an actor.
How does somebody die, if they never existed in first place?
hm
Indeed, its all a cover up to make obama look better :D
im huge in politics, i know he had kidney problems and he was already dead, body frozen, used to make obama look better :)
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Eternauta, I'm not saying you are wrong or right; but can you give specific examples of how the US has made Argentina suffer? You seem to be using the US as a scapegoat.
I got more than 30000 examples of how Argentina suffered because of the United States (30000 is the estimated number of people who "disappeared" during the 1976-1983 dictatorship, and to that you can add all the economical victims of neoliberalism).
The coup in 1976 was done to install a military dictatorship by our military, an institution which was simply with the USA in the context of the Cold War. This, in specific terms, meant they wanted to prepare Argentina for more economical contact with the USA (instead of joining the Socialist block), so they had to carry out actions based on the National Security Doctrine, which in more specific terms meant a complete lack of respect to human rights, the persecution of left wing peronists, communists, socialists. A persecution not only suffered by these political groups, who did have a violent behavior against the military and some civilians did suffer from them (and that was the excuse the military used to pursuit them), but at the same time had no other way to fight the political system which had been already installed beforehand by the military (our army -the first time in 1930 and the sixth and last time in 1976, let's hope never again- did a coup everytime they did not agree with the government). Along with the "normal" murder (adult men and women, members of a political group or not), there was also the kidnapping of babies which were given to "good" families to be raised to "respect the Christian and Western customs", and also had their names changed and their identity made a secret for them.
But apart from this violence related to the body and the identity, there were the economic results, as the dictatorship obviously could not exterminate all of the left wing people and anti-imperialists, but did manage to bring Argentina to the USA side in economy. This would have been impossible without the dictatorship because of the big anti-imperialist movements that could not get to the government because of reasons I already explained. To this, add that the most anti-imperialist government we had was the first presidency of Juan Domingo Perón, supported by the vast majority but taken down in 1955 by the military, who also made it literally illegal to be a Peronist). But let me stick to the consequences of the last dictatorship, which were an imposed idea that it was bad to get into politics, that being left wing meant being evil, etc. This violent action on the people's vision of politics as well as the critical economical situation Argentina was going through just after the dictatorship (which president Alfonsín could not put an end to) made it possible for Carlos Menem, a neoliberalist who gave vague promises, to become the president in 1989. His economic policies (Convertibility Plan) led the country to privatization (which brought deindustrialization and unemployement) and debt.
The final explosion was with the crisis in 2001. The situation made Néstor Kirchner, a left wing peronist, and former supporter of Montoneros (who back in the 70's were a revolutionary left wing peronist group, and got shot by the USA lover military), get to President in 2003. Our current government (with Nestor's wife as president) follows that line. And like I already said, this is the government that USA likes calling corrupt.
Making it short: the Cold War made the USA, paranoid about the Red Menace, encourage military coups in Latin America (Argentina in this case). These coups brought dead to thousands and also critical economical consequences, which are the "hardships" Slaver Snipe is so sarcastically "sorry" about.
Apparently we destroyed their economy, not themselves, we made their governments evil etc etc.
Do you not realize "ourselves" is too vague? Military and businessmen who supported the USA politically and economically is what I typed about.
Off topic? yes, but I was answering a question Abe had asked.
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Soooo, it was your countrymen who supported the USA that killed your economy thanks for clearing that up.
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Do you not realize "ourselves" is too vague? Military and businessmen who supported the USA politically and economically is what I typed about.
Well it seems that when you say "United States" you mean "US government and their rich privileged friends", but when you say "Argentina" you mean "Argentinian people" not "Argentinian government and their rich privileged friends".
Where does this lack of consistency come from?
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Well it seems that when you say "United States" you mean "US government and their rich privileged friends", but when you say "Argentina" you mean "Argentinian people" not "Argentinian government and their rich privileged friends".
Where does this lack of consistency come from?
How is it a lack of consistency? of course I mean the Argentinean people. What does Obama mean when he says the terrorist killed "Americans"? The American people, I guess. Students, workers, children, etc.
And when I talk about the USA of course I mean their government and "priviledged friends"... or what? do you want me to say "all Americans are evil"? Come on...