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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Attero on February 03, 2010, 12:20:30 am
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The economy breaks when there is too much stuff on the server. Currently the problem is the flood of stuff from encounters, before these were reinstated in the current form the economy flowed much better.
ok idea 1- make all encoutner drops unerapairable ... aint too much sense so the real deal is idea 2
idea 2:
Items above 60 (or 70%) of deterioration cannot be repaired.
Failed repair will never bring item above that value.
Items from encoutners (and caves) should come with deterioration above the cut off value (all or majority)
ofc vendors pay much less for unrepairable items ^^
this should keep the crafted items more valuable and help the economy
just idea...
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Hmm.. I'm not sure about that. 60% most-used equip today don't exist in drop and must be crafted (sniper rifles, p90, plasmas). Rest must be obtained on hard PvE (avengers.. killing enclave sometimes takes more time than gathering resources for pancor) or uses a tons of ammo which need to be crafted/bought too.
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Why there even are so many encouters again? People demanding more pve got their wishes through?
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Game is more interesting for me since encounter pool was removed. Not everyone like to fight in north.
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We need some wild-wild west. Killing 3214254235 rat or scorpion is BORING. Looking at guard killin his own teammates can be even fun instead.
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We need some wild-wild west.
One wild too much and you get this
(http://www.tomshw.it/guides/hardware/guide/20060830/images/wildwildwest.jpg)
But anyway, it's okay that people got more things to do when there's more pve but it can't be the permanent solution to boredom.
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True, but now let the devs finish mechanics, then let them finish quests and more RP stuff ;)
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I'm not sure the stuff from encounters is actually what's causing the stagnant economy.
I don't buy things is because all the best stuff is too expensive compared to how easily lost it is. I'm not paying 25k for armour that'll just require one extra eyecrit to kill me.
Prices don't seem to be based on how useful the stuff actually is. $500 for 100 BBs? $2300 for 100 shotgun shells? Do you think anyone has ever bought that? $15,000 for a laser rifle? $17,000 for a ripper? $30,000 for an M60? Nobody's going to pay $30k for an M60. Even $2,000 for a 10mm SMG is overkill. Prices need to be slashed like crazy.
I'm talking an enormous reduction. Why not just $50 for a 10mm? $100 for a shotgun. $300 for a laser pistol. $500 for a 10mm SMG. Same goes from ammo. Like $1 for a BB. $2 for a 10mm. $3 for a shotgun shell.
Traders seem to be used by people who produce radios/laser pistols/farm junk in bulk and then cash it all in. Your average guy isn't going to sell the mausers he finds in encounters because he'll always get ripped off, and there's nothing the traders have that he wants.
To be totally honest, I think the barter skill is pretty counter-productive to economic flow. By having everyone get ripped off by traders, nobody wants to buy or sell anything. So they just hoard it. And so we don't have an economy. I'd rather barter function to help players get even better deals, rather than barter stops you from getting ripped off.
So, yeah. If you want to make the economy flow, reduce prices.
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Prices don't seem to be based on how useful the stuff actually is. $500 for 100 BBs? $2300 for 100 shotgun shells? Do you think anyone has ever bought that? $15,000 for a laser rifle? $17,000 for a ripper? $30,000 for an M60? Nobody's going to pay $30k for an M60. Even $2,000 for a 10mm SMG is overkill. Prices need to be slashed like crazy.
Yeah the prices are crazy. I've never bought any guns or armors from shops. The prices could be significantly cheaper but there has to be a way to stop people bying them with useless crap -> shopkeepers only accept cash or quaity stuff that's related to their bussiness.
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Eh i see you guys dont know what it is about lets say this :
Low lv stuff is worthless - combat shotguns , assult rifles , fn fal , flamers and all lower tier weapons are worthless due to how easy they can be gotten.
High level stuff that either cant be looted or requires some heavy encoutners - so this stuff cos f-load.
As for pricing - prices are based on mat cost + cooldown fee. BA armor require f load of mats ~20k worth + around 13h craft timeout .. thats why its as expensive as it is.
M60 - is worth around 10 k in maths + 5h timeout i think - i guess 15k is the price - 30k is some ripoff ;]
w8.... you say vendor prices or market prices? ...
Barter - is how efficient you can _Sell_ stuff to vendors , rly there is no need ot buy anythign from vendor part the tools maybe when you lose yours etc..
finally the only weay why caps atm are worth something is due to fact that vendors have limited supply of them . if vendors would have infinite amount of caps then caps would be worthless and we would use pricing .. something like
WTS xxx - 2 alloys and 3 MP or 3 fibers...
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Yeah the prices are crazy. I've never bought any guns or armors from shops. The prices could be significantly cheaper but there has to be a way to stop people bying them with useless crap -> shopkeepers only accept cash or quaity stuff that's related to their bussiness.
I don't know, at first I supported that idea but I think it's actually something that stifles trading. Think about it. If you want to buy a gun, you have to have guns to sell. Think about it. You can't save up mausers and stimpaks and flares and finally cash it all in to buy a shotgun from a gunstore.
I think traders should accept it, but if it's 'not part of their business' it gets converted into useful stuff in a minute. If people want to build a load of radios and then sell them, I guess that's what the crafting system is for. People need to earn gear somehow. I don't like it, it feels cheap, but I also figure that's the point in crafting.
Traders shouldn't be a source of cash. Cash should be from quests, traders should be for gear. Currently, cash is only used for the big purchases, and nobody spends it. Traders should be where you spend cash, not where you obtain it. But nobody spends cash at traders because everything is too expensive/nothing useful in stock.
Bases and tents being undiscoverable are also huge contributors to the economy not flowing. Why buy a gun when you have an enormous stash of guns that nobody can discover?
On a side note, because of this thread I started wandering around checking traders. Didn't we used to have a better 'fixed inventory' system than this? We seem to have gone backwards in regard to traders having useful gear in stock.
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Oh come on, thoes encounters in the most lucky case give only shitty desert eagles, assault rifles or combat shotguns.
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As for pricing - prices are based on mat cost + cooldown fee. BA armor require f load of mats ~20k worth + around 13h craft timeout .. thats why its as expensive as it is.
M60 - is worth around 10 k in maths + 5h timeout i think - i guess 15k is the price - 30k is some ripoff ;]
The other way round, materials are based off the price. Which I think are just arbitrary values, if I remember correctly.
On another note, 13 hour timeout? $2300 for shotguns shells? This sounds strange.
CA should take ~5 hours and 100 shotgun shells base price is $1400 (currently)
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I don't know, at first I supported that idea but I think it's actually something that stifles trading.
Actually you're right lol. Like Attero said, the prices are based on time/mats/whatever. Something that Solar worked and thought over.
The economy is based on players making the stuff and letting it cycle. It's a good concept. If only selling and buying was easier so that we could get some real offer/demand charts and competition of prices. "Who sells cheapest shotguns" etc. Other issue with natural competition are npc merchants. Nobody wants to sell shotguns for less than npc offers from them.
So cash source and npc merchant role could be revisited. How? That's a job for some expert on capitalism.
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Well, either way, I think a lot of prices should be looked at and adjusted. My barter is 16%, and it costs $23 for a shotgun shell from Sha Enin in the NCR. $13 for a 10mm round. $13,000 for a combat shotgun/FN FAL. Nobody's going to buy that. I'll screenshot if you want.
If I figure right, base prices are the absolute minimum a player could possibly pay for that item, right? The base price isn't the maximum, so everyone actually pays a lot more.
As for trying to establish the role of NPC traders, I'd just say treat it as you would a business. We want people to be constantly spending money and exchanging goods. NPC traders should be the backbone of the economy, with players fulfilling the need for rarer goods.
An economy that works has cash and goods people want constantly changing hands. At the moment, that's not really what we have. Ideally, this cash and goods would be exchanged willingly. This is the problem. How do we get players to spend money?
There's a lot of answers to that. My own suggestion would be to make absolutely everything a whole lot cheaper. Little things like mercs and rooms and cars should also be sucking money out of players' pockets.
A few ideas related to that:
Mercs respawn. Now people are prepared to throw down $5,000 on a merc, because they won't lose them in one random encounter. After a while, the merc won't be strong enough for their needs and they'll upgrade. They also have to keep them supplied with guns and ammo.
Cars can be refueled for a price. You don't get the MFC cells. You just stop off at certain traders, like Smitty, T-Ray, Skeeter, and just ask for them to refuel your car. They do, and it costs you caps/barter. Cars themselves could do with being cheaper, I barely see any around these days.
Rentable rooms replace tents. It'll be unpopular, but players will have to pay for a safe place to store their stuff. Players ought to get the option to pay in either caps or barter. This'll require the whole renting system to be expanded, though, in terms of both maps and scripting.
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The other way round, materials are based off the price. Which I think are just arbitrary values, if I remember correctly.
On another note, 13 hour timeout? $2300 for shotguns shells? This sounds strange.
CA should take ~5 hours and 100 shotgun shells base price is $1400 (currently)
i said BA (brotherhood armor) = CA 5h + upgreade 8h timeout ...
My barter is 16%
prices drop significently with parter ..above 100 barter from bob you should get those for less then 5k ... but i dont know the numbers rly , its still waste to buy weapons from NPC ...
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Yeah, on a 112% barter a combat shotgun is now $8,000. A shotgun shell is $14. Is there no way to balance this? Getting half price for 100 barter seems absolutely crazy.
Nonetheless, $14 for one shell is still astronomical.
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dunno how ever if you wanna sel 0 det to Bob its 5.4k , Sho pays 7.4k Oo and the guy in tnet 6.4k at 110.
and i alwayes tought bob got lwoest prices ... looks like he just undercuts everything ^^
another itneresting thing is .. had two same items oen at 0 det the other 1% (both seen a few repairs) the one with 1% sells for half price of that with 0 det ..hehe.. shame i dont have 0 det one but never repaired to see if its worth more..
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Something that Solar worked and thought over.
Atom did the majority of prices a long time ago, the recipes are then matched to the prices.
said BA (brotherhood armor) = CA 5h + upgreade 8h timeout ...
Bah, damn that silly bug :(
Nonetheless, $14 for one shell is still astronomical.
$14 isn't astronomical for a shotgun shell, although shotguns are somewhat weak at the moment. In any event a lot of the ammos will fall in price when the economy gets a rejig
As for making NPCs more attractive to trade with we dropped the barter price, I think the values we have now aren't too high at all.
As for the prices of items, if you find them too high to be worth the risk, use cheaper items.