fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Attero on February 02, 2010, 01:12:34 am
-
i happened to read post about sneak http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Sneak on wiki
its me or its totaly off from having any sense ?
i mean the final check is 20+3*PER - sneak_final/6 < 0 to not get detected
it then makes 20+PER*3 < sneak_final/6 then >
sneak_final > 120+18*PER for enemy with 10 PER its 300 ??QQ for a mere 6 PER char it makes 228 sneak required ...
i also dont udnerstand this part ...
Direction - direction of the opponent has big impact, basically, the area around opponent is divided into four parts, and each part modifies your sneak skill value by reducing it (not substracting) by following percentages:
* Front: 90%
* Front-sides: 60%
* Back-sides: 30%
* Back: 0%
by reducing (not substracting) ...eee reduce by 90% as 300 skil -> 30 for being in front ? range to target no impact?
i totaly dont understand that and i quite think sneaking is possible so there must be some error somewhere....
-
b) opponent's sneak skill suffers penalty:
* -90 when directly looking at opponent
* -60 when looking from frontsides
* -30 when opponent is in backside area
* no penalty for 'behind' hexes
(http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51620&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51620&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20))
so if you have 300 sneak and you are in front your total sneak will be 210.
i think in that formula is missing the distance factor, so i dont know the real formula
here are some tests
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52432&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120 (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52432&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120)
-
so if you have 300 sneak and you are in front your total sneak will be 210.
This is wrong. Attero, you had it right; you'll have 30 sneak.
As it stands now, sneaking is broken and useless.
You don't see people using it because it's worthless, not because you don't see people using it. :P
-
Sneak has a long history of according to some, imbalance. The way the chance of not being seen is calculated, it makes the skill useless. Of course most can remember the days of sneak big gunners/snipers. ;p
-
Well, everyone argued that it's stupid to see players in front of them, if there is even a big wide open field. So it we changed and adjusted it to the FOV. So, if you are sneaking, run behind people and not in front of them.
-
i belive that part FoV and range also time and movement should be considered - atm a godo per char can detect you at 40 hex based on the experiments in the link...
so basicly the longer person say in enemy FOV the more sneak he "looses" lets say in fron you can only stay for about 5s before getting huge penalty to sneak. While from behidn yo urecive no penalty and the back sides something like 15-20s
as for movement if the "detecting target" is moving or he has low current AP (aka he is distracted) then his chances to detect stuff drop - his FOV should be considred like the "back side" or he should get the perception bonus in detection equation.
would make more sense and possibly would bring sneak some usage...
but then i guess it will be pain in ass to code ;/
-
Well, sneak seems to be completely usless now. Even with skill much above 200%.
Any chance of making it a little bit useful? Because its iritaiting to invest so much points just to see that this skill
is no match for any other ones.
-
Yeah like you can basically kill anything with a SG/BG/EW skill of around 100 or even lower if the circumstances are good enough(give an smg to a grandma and he can kill a ninja easily, see here: video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV59_if9vTw) ) , and all you need to do is point and click-> instant death. But you need to spend all of your skill points in sneak just to be not seen and still need luck, and skill to manoever in the targets fov AND a second taged skill(unarmed, melee, or steal, etc) to actually DO something to him
IMO a "rogue" (wow) like character would bring a fresh new taste to the game. If a big gunner whines because he was killed by a ninja, then thats just sad.
Devs the game needs more variaty, thare are basically 2 "classes" in the game: sniper and big gunner. Grenadier, melee, unarmed, and doctor are there, but they arent very popular. If a class isnt popular in a game, that means there is something wrong with them. Make the game FO like, thats fine, but when it comes to MMOs, balance is the key.
Remember that its still a GAME, realism isnt priority here, so dont break the sneak skill just because IRL you cant "sneak" on the street.
For example im a doc, and its only good in TB, and to get easy xp. In a realtime pvp battle its basically useless(see ncr defence) because of the high cd, and way to much DPS by others. On the other hand in TB its easy to exploit, because you can just wait your full turn without doing anything, and the CD is down in about 3-5 turns, during that time you can just run around.
BTW FOV doesnt change when you turn your character, only when you move. ->bug
-
For example im a doc, and its only good in TB, and to get easy xp. In a realtime pvp battle its basically useless(see ncr defence) because of the high cd, and way to much DPS by others. On the other hand in TB its easy to exploit, because you can just wait your full turn without doing anything, and the CD is down in about 3-5 turns, during that time you can just run around.
What do you want? Heal yourself + 150HP every 15 secs? ::)
-
The wiki information on sneak is incorrect. The formula
20 + opponent's Perception * 3 - previously calculated skill / 6
determines the maximum distance between the observer and the (sneaked) observed at which the latter is visible. No randomness is involved. Also, the maximum distance can't be lower than 3.
-
Misiolap updated the wiki with this formula, thanks for information !
-
What do you want? Heal yourself + 150HP every 15 secs? ::)
I dont know why im trying to answer your question, but anyhow here it goes
No, im thinking about a "mana" like system, so one can continuesly heal while he has supplies left BUT limit the amount healed per use of the skill. FA in the original fallouts werent as OPas they are here, i can easily recover from 2 minigun bursts with full hp..(107 max hp atm)
I was thinking about less cd, less gained hp...
Like a CD system if the devs love CDs that much:
A new kind of FA "CD" that counts as maximum "mana", would be calculated from INT and FA+doctor skill of a character. Multiply int by 10, add doc/2, add FA/2, or whatever, needs testing to be balanced ofc. If a player uses the skill, the amount healed would be substracted directly from the manapool. One use of FA would only heal a lesser amount, 200 skill would only heal for a mere max of 100 hp. Or whatever, numbers can be tweaked easily, its the underlying mechanics thats important.. When the manapool isnt full, i++ every sec. If the player has his FA CD on 30, with a skill of 300, he can only heal for 30. But 5 seconds later when his AP is regenerated, he can heal again, for 5 hp, etc... Optionally increase the AP requirements of FA, and there you have it, its balanced because the doc needs to continually heal himself or others just to stay alive, and cant do anything other himself. Also, lower the XP gained from FA and doc, or add diminishing to it because its too easy to level.
Example battle situation with current mechanics: 8 int, 114% FA. Thats actually my character atm. Im battling a minigunner. I have 107 hp. After the first burst i lost 60+ hp. Seeing as the next burst would ultimately result in my death i quickly FA myself to full hp, but only healed 60... Almost half of the amount i am capable of healing was wasted. After that i go full auto and manage to inflict 60 dmg. And then i die. And i only have 114 FA how about dedicated docs with 200-300 skill? Everybody is killed in 1-20 seconds -realtime- in this game, so lowering CDs just wont make the doc any more usefull..
But lets review the situation with the new system in place: 8 int means 240 CD. Incoming enemy burst, ~60 dmg, i heal ~60. CD at 180. Because i dont have enough AP(FA now costing 5 AP), i cant attack, i am forced to wait. Second burst is a crit, im hit for 100. I quickly heal for ~60 so im at 70 hp, CD at 120. The next 2 bursts were lucky ones again(60-60), and managed to heal myself for 50-50 each. CD at 20. Last burst, 60 again, 1-2 hp, but managed to attack once because bursting costs more AP for my opponent, so i managed to squeze in an attack. What luck! Hes out of ammo and needs to reload! Managed to attack again! In total i made a whopping 20 dmg, and my opponent suffered greatly. And then i got sawed in half. Yes i healed "150 hp every 15 seconds", and still died. In a big battle like NCR defense i would have managed to save 5 people, but is it overpowered? I dont think so. If it is, just play with the numbers a bit(starting CD-manapool calculation buff/nerf, max amount of heal per FA buff/nerf, AP needed to use FA buff/nerf, etc.)
But this is getting very offtopick... I beg for mercy from the mods :D