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Title: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Cheezy on April 01, 2011, 07:07:58 am
Polls only show results after voting

This interesting topic and think polls might surprise you. I am going put poll list variety stuff, everyone fall under one thing or another. Just put in pick one you think fall under.  If you have more say then whats in polls about your self. Then go head post it and domination to if your bold enough.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: skejwen on April 01, 2011, 08:56:10 am
what is church?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: headshot on April 01, 2011, 09:02:36 am
Well skejwen, looking at current situation in Poland we can say that people believes in god or believes in church.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 01, 2011, 01:25:27 pm
First of all theres no such thing as beliving in chruch .... beliving in god, and acepting the church or religion is something esle. I personally dont agree with everything but i do know theres a god or what ever u call it.... there is something... trust me... had alot of experiences good shit happening when i deserved it and good things happening while wating for court not thinking i would get out for 6 months, but when i went i got time served :), one example second i allmost lost my arm and life had a fight went thourgh a window and my main artery was cut i allmost bled to death died and lost my arm, by miracle they managed to save the arm had 34 stiche out and 28 inside and 22 staples i looked like terminator... i wasnt able to please my girl with the hand or my self :P but now im good... so there is  GOD ALELUJA :D
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 01, 2011, 01:42:12 pm
God is as real as the tooth fairy.

Anyone that doesn't agree with that - I have some magic beans to sell you ... only $100 each!
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Andr3aZ on April 01, 2011, 02:03:20 pm
There are no deities. The only godly power is to know yourself and treat others like you want to be treated.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Wichura on April 01, 2011, 02:24:55 pm
God/faith and church (catholic, dunno about other ones much) are two different things.

Solar - Flying Spaghetti Monster sounds reasonable enough? :>
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 01, 2011, 02:28:32 pm
(http://nationallampoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/monty_python_god.jpg)
sinners, still not believe in mighty god ?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ulrek on April 01, 2011, 02:42:46 pm
Personally i don't really care to be too social with my beliefs. so the church is a no for me.

As for the whole "Do you believe in god?" thing, yes, i think god is real. but i just follow the basic "Don't screw with the world" rules.

Don't murder.
Don't steal.
Don't play with shrink ray's

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 01, 2011, 02:47:57 pm
Quote
Solar - Flying Spaghetti Monster sounds reasonable enough? :>

As equally likely as any other religion, yup ;)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Lizard on April 01, 2011, 03:06:33 pm
You mean, believe in God?

I think Jesus and God are awesome, but it's their fanclub that spooks me.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: SmartCheetah on April 01, 2011, 04:09:02 pm
Hear thee my fellow nazolics
Come join the Neotheofacists
Keep the race pure practice eugenics
And swear to the holy swazafix!


Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Surf on April 01, 2011, 04:43:31 pm
As others said, there is a difference between "The Church" and faith. The latter is ok if it helps people trying to come by, the first is a constitution responsible for many wars, death and dogmas, not good.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Badger on April 01, 2011, 05:43:08 pm
I don't believe in God, but I think spiritual beliefs ought to be respected. Sneering at someone for believing in God is just as repulsive as telling someone they're going to burn in hell. So long as they don't bother you or anyone else with their beliefs, you shouldn't give them shit for theirs.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Crazy on April 01, 2011, 06:02:16 pm
Christians are basically this.

(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_4.jpg)

And when  you think about it...
(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_18.jpg)

So, I prefer the science way.
(http://www.nioutaik.fr/images/dossier28/crea8.jpg)

So bad the science was slowed down by christianity...
(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_20.jpg)


Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 01, 2011, 06:10:02 pm
People can be as mad as they want, so long as they don't inflict it upon anyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design_in_politics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_school
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

When you try and pass on nonsense to the next generation you stop inflicting only on yourself. These things haven't been blighting human society for thousands of years because they are bad at propogating their own "beliefs".


Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Surf on April 01, 2011, 06:23:32 pm
^

Yeah, exactly what I mean.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 01, 2011, 07:26:20 pm
God exist and he is omniprezent, but it is actualy a place in our brain where some of us go with the help of "praying" so that they will realy belive that good things will happen, some sort of mature well of wishes
some people had made this a way to live, douing stupid and ilogical things
Christians are basically this.

(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_4.jpg)

And when  you think about it...
(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_18.jpg)

So, I prefer the science way.
(http://www.nioutaik.fr/images/dossier28/crea8.jpg)

So bad the science was slowed down by christianity...
(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_20.jpg)



i agree to this^
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 01, 2011, 07:34:19 pm
http://watchtower.org/

(http://watchtower.org/images/index/logo-brown.jpg)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Glave on April 01, 2011, 08:14:46 pm
God is as real as the tooth fairy.

Anyone that doesn't agree with that

Diamond Head is as good as Metallica

Anyone that doesn't agree with that

STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!

Anyways, if you cannot understand why people believe in some beings superior to theirselves, maybe I'll clear this up to you. How many of those people that can barely afford food would still remain sane and think positive if not for their faith? Why the countless families of Japan haven't snapped yet and carry on with their lives, despite huge losses in their ranks? Do you think Poland would rise once again as a country if not for the faith we had in our hearts ever since 966?

I'm not even talking about Catholicism, but God in general. Take a look at yourself - if you think God doesn't exist, why do you invoke his name dozens of times daily? Don't know what I'm talking about? Oh my God doesn't ring a bell anymore?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 01, 2011, 09:06:38 pm
People who firmly believe has been influenced since his childhood, by another who has experienced the same thing, or directly by an evil man who knows it is a lie meant to keep people under control by telling to the crowd the commandments, and his consequences. After all god is a term created by man. To express it well, god has been created by man, at his image and resemblance. It means CONQUEST!! People who still can think for themselves, know it.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ganado on April 01, 2011, 09:08:06 pm
Believe in church? Yes, I believe in the existence of churches. You should re-word your poll :>

But to actually answer the intended questions.. I'll start by saying I don't care whatever religion you are, as long as it isn't an extremist religion. Being a martyr by killing the innocent is wrong. People think that Islam is an extremist religion, but that's only a very small percentage of people that take it to extremism. There have been extremist Christian sects too, for example.

It isn't a matter of 'believing', but I agree with most of the morals that the Gospels' wrote. They are good parables that can teach good lessons that don't necessarily even have to do with religion at all, but just mankind's moral actions.

E.g: "Give a man to fish, and you feed them for a day, and you feed them for a day, teach a man to fish, and you feed them for a lifetime".
Doesn't really have to do with religion, but the morals expressed in it do help live life in a better way. If you just give that man money because he's lazy, he won't help him in the long run, but if you teach him how to do his job, then he'll be able to make a living on his own.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 01, 2011, 09:13:03 pm
Believe in church? Yes, I believe in the existence of churches. You should re-word your poll :>

 ;D You're so right, I believe in some church I have seen too, anyways there are proofs on the web, you can look at church images, so, it is true, churches EXIST.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 02, 2011, 01:10:59 pm
Christians are basically this.

(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_4.jpg)





Come on man the picture u put up is called atheism motivational poster ... lmfao...

First of all i think its wrong, my father is a atheist.... ... hes not happy with anything in life... i belive iin evolution not in adam and eve that ate apples from trees, any logical thing in life nobody can prove me wrong..  but having no faith in anything? thinking that life just came out of nothing... u must be a fuckin retard to think that.... Science came very far but theres one point that every scientist comes to and those questions he cant asnerw... they sometimes turn crazy... or very religious... some things u cannot anserw and just that part logicly tells you that there is something,... maybe hes not in the sky wating for us to die, but its in us, karma,,, in nature and in life it self.. maybe i just smoked a lil bit too much now and this is a touchy subject... so i will leave it as it is... but belive me son you are very wrong.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Crazy on April 02, 2011, 02:08:12 pm
Come on man the picture u put up is called atheism motivational poster ... lmfao...

(http://anonymouslefty.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/captain-obvious.jpg)


First of all i think its wrong, my father is a atheist.... ... hes not happy with anything in life...

Huh, OK... I know christians very sad in their life, and atheists very happy... I don't think happiness in your life have anything to do with religion.


i belive iin evolution not in adam and eve that ate apples from trees, any logical thing in life nobody can prove me wrong..  but having no faith in anything? thinking that life just came out of nothing... u must be a fuckin retard to think that.... Science came very far but theres one point that every scientist comes to and those questions he cant asnerw...

And what? Explaining why a fire burn or why an apple fall was an unanswerable question few hundreds years past. Doesn't mean it can't be answered. And you made me laugh. "life just came out of nothing". And from where come your god? Why a cosmic super puissance coming from nowhere who created an universe is more logical than the universe coming from nowhere?

 
they sometimes turn crazy... or very religious... some things u cannot anserw and just that part logicly tells you that there is something,... maybe hes not in the sky wating for us to die, but its in us, karma,,, in nature and in life it self.. maybe i just smoked a lil bit too much now and this is a touchy subject... so i will leave it as it is... but belive me son you are very wrong.


I smoked too and I don't think I am wrong. Religion is what many people need to don't see the truth : you are nothing, you are here for no reason, you will die for no reason, and once you're dead, there is nothing. Of course most people are afraid of this. It's why they need god.
Because I can't answer a question, doesn't mean it is logical to suppose the Flying Spaghetti Monster did it.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 02, 2011, 03:23:10 pm
(http://anonymouslefty.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/captain-obvious.jpg)


Huh, OK... I know christians very sad in their life, and atheists very happy... I don't think happiness in your life have anything to do with religion.


And what? Explaining why a fire burn or why an apple fall was an unanswerable question few hundreds years past. Doesn't mean it can't be answered. And you made me laugh. "life just came out of nothing". And from where come your god? Why a cosmic super puissance coming from nowhere who created an universe is more logical than the universe coming from nowhere?

 

I smoked too and I don't think I am wrong. Religion is what many people need to don't see the truth : you are nothing, you are here for no reason, you will die for no reason, and once you're dead, there is nothing. Of course most people are afraid of this. It's why they need god.
Because I can't answer a question, doesn't mean it is logical to suppose the Flying Spaghetti Monster did it.

LoL on the spageghetti monster shit... but no for real man i know theres nun after death  but trust me bro something is out there... i had plenty of experiences... yes my head and brain might be fucked up from the war from the 90s' the drugs and what not... but there is some shit u cannot explain... i never said that there was life after death as i do not belive in it either.... before u were born u dont rember shit ... after u die u wont either... but there is something greater then us... that no 1 will ever understand... its not being scared man its seeing with your own eyes hearing with your own ears and experiencing things in group of people not high not drunk or nothing... there is somethings u will never be able to anserw... and i think you are the one scared my man .. not me i looked death into face plenty of times in my lifetime.... i am not insulting or being a bitch ass bird... i am just saying that i deffenetly dont agree with you, and i hope someday u will relize the same.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 02, 2011, 03:37:00 pm
(http://www.nioutaik.fr/images/dossier28/crea8.jpg)

(http://scottklarr.com/media/atheism/motivationalPosters/atheism_motivational_poster_20.jpg)
Modern Christianity is nothing like this.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 02, 2011, 03:42:31 pm
It bases its beliefs on evidence? Then why does it still exist?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: JovankaB on April 02, 2011, 04:56:32 pm
People who praise reason should do better than pasting some stupid demotivators that have nothing to do with reality. An image suggesting that there was nothing going on for 1000 years is simply false. Besides, most scholars in medieval period were clergymen, especially early on and actually they were the ones who saved a lot of Greek works. "Dark ages" is just a propaganda term, no serious historian use it anymore (at least not in such negative context).

There was many cleric–scientists who contributed greatly to the science. A name like Copernicus, does it ring a bell? I will leave you with a homework - find the other. Being atheist doesn't mean you are automatically smart. And it doesn't mean that you can't be fanatical when arguing with others.

I'm agnostic and I don't give a damn what you believe or disbelieve in :)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 02, 2011, 05:35:50 pm
There was many cleric–scientists who contributed greatly to the science. A name like Copernicus, does it ring a bell? I will leave you with a homework - find the other. Being atheist doesn't mean you are automatically smart. And it doesn't mean that you can't be fanatical when arguing with others.

hmm, Copernicus, doesn't was him the one threatened to death penalty by the "church" staff, to change their Heliocentric theory about earth? Like always, but in ancient times was worst, that people with ranks, money, protected by the "church", etc... could do whatever they want over other people, saying they were right.

Copernicus was forced to change what he find, although nowadays, has been discovered both sides in that aspect were wrong, and that the earth has a irregular form, something like a potato.

Quote
I don't give a damn what you believe or disbelieve in :)

Me neither.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 02, 2011, 05:47:59 pm
People who praise reason should do better than pasting some stupid demotivators that have nothing to do with reality. An image suggesting that there was nothing going on for 1000 years is simply false. Besides, most scholars in medieval period were clergymen, especially early on and actually they were the ones who saved a lot of Greek works. "Dark ages" is just a propaganda term, no serious historian use it anymore (at least not in such negative context).

There was many cleric–scientists who contributed greatly to the science. A name like Copernicus, does it ring a bell? I will leave you with a homework - find the other. Being atheist doesn't mean you are automatically smart. And it doesn't mean that you can't be fanatical when arguing with others.

I'm agnostic and I don't give a damn what you believe or disbelieve in :)

Quote
Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest

It's not quite so simple as the picture, but any system which promotes "belief" over evidence has a negative effect on human progress. Just as stem cell research suffered when they had an idiot in the whitehouse.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: JovankaB on April 02, 2011, 06:12:59 pm
I don't think Joseph Stalin contributed to the mankind greatly either. It is not a problem with beliefs in god. It's a problem with a system based on monopoly of violence (government), where people in power can tell you what you can or cannot do, or you will be shot or thrown into a jail. For example, if you think stem cell research is unethical, you shouldn't be forced to pay for the research (which many christians may be, via taxes).

It would be weird if there would be no examples of evil people in almost 2000 years old, powerful organization.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 02, 2011, 06:53:00 pm
A good example to pick. Totalitarianism and religion have many things in common. Outside of religion treating something made up as fact and totalitarianism treating an opinion as fact ... theres not much difference.

Science's great ability is that it accepts the possibility even the most fundamental part of it could be completely wrong and changes based upon something being proven to be better. That's how progress is made.

Already having the "answer" is the way to halt progress.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: JustGreat on April 02, 2011, 07:00:59 pm
There was many cleric–scientists who contributed greatly to the science.

This is true, but I don't understand why you brought Copernicus into this since according to the poster Crazy showed, the black was before Copernicus was born.

So, I prefer the science way.
(Science vs. Faith picture)

I can tell you are not doing any scientific work and your knowledge about science is superfluous. What you posted was an ideal was of how science should work, but it rarely does. (e.g using hydrodynamic equations to explain quark gluon plasma, though it is not truly a plasma, but it is easier to model this way)

but any system which promotes "belief" over evidence has a negative effect on human progress.

While this is true for organized religions, who use belief to counter progress, it is hardly true in academia, where belief is sometimes just as strong as evidence. (eg. absolute relativity by Lorentz, and general relativity by Einstein)

It is not a problem with beliefs in god. It's a problem with a system based on monopoly of violence (government), where people in power can tell you what you can or cannot do, or you will be shot or thrown into a jail. For example, if you think stem cell research is unethical, you shouldn't be forced to pay for the research (which many christians may be, via taxes).

I don't know how it is in Europe (though I know it is less religious than the US) but in the US churches are tax exempt, and there are even people who create religions just so they don't have to pay taxes. Taxes are a tricky subject, but I don't think using belief should be a way to piggyback out of it.

Science's great ability is that it accepts the possibility even the most fundamental part of it could be completely wrong and changes based upon something being proven to be better. That's how progress is made.

You will be surprised how untrue this is. (There is a reason PRL has a section D)


Anyway, what I am trying to say is, don't think science is the opposite of religion, both have their beliefs.  :P
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 02, 2011, 07:37:29 pm
any system which promotes "belief" over evidence has a negative effect on human progress.
Indeed, I fully agree. But as I said, we don't promote belief over evidence anymore.

Let's talk a little about faith itself, not about church and its effects.
You see, there is no evidence that God exists(for you), but there is also no evidence that God doesn't exist. That's why believing in Him is nothing wrong, and has no negative effect :)

About believing. Let's take someone who's raised in Catholicism.
First, he's a child. His parents told him that God exists, loves him but can also punish. "You must go to church!" they said. The kid starts to believe in God. Blindly. His faith is there just because his authorities, his parents told him.
Then, he grows up. He begins to understand. He must take a path.
 - God doesn't exist.
1. Now he could think that who believes in God is dumb, mad etc. He is an enemy to any system of belief. God was nothing more than a tooth fairy. He was there just to help parents grow up the kid, to scare him when he doesn't obey/cheer him up when something bad happens.
2. Or he could think, that everyone should believe what he wants to believe. One isn't negative towards people who have faith.
I. myself, have much respect for those who took the second option.
Let's move on.

 - "God exists"
But just because it's right to say so.
For me, these are the kind of people whose faith didn't grow up. The man could be still going to church, he could get a church wedding. He would "believe". But the truth is, he doesn't care about God and his faith.

 - God does exist.
Now I'm thinking of people who really deeply believe, and God is present in their lives. I know, noone is perfect, they still commit sins - and sins lengthen the distance between God and man. But they want to live in harmony with Him.

I believe that I belong to the third group.
You see, with age, my faith was getting deeper and it still is. I started experiencing God. Now it isn't just a blind faith, now I know that He is there, all around us. I can feel it.
What I am saying is very personal. But well, that is what I believe in  :)

I'm just hoping that you will start seeking Him. Not that you become a Christian instantly. Maybe go to church. Just try to look around. It's never too late.

And about Church - as the organization. It's created to help people in their relationship with God. There's been things that Church did wrong. Like blindly killing people, just because they thought another way. Using its power to raise money. But it is now changing. People like John Paul II - they are just proving that. Church is fine for me  :)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 02, 2011, 07:50:47 pm
I would dare to say noone need such kind of organization as the church, hiding information to people, way to manage the situation to their will. Then they are liars, "sinners" as their call. I have not to mention the atrocities commanded by these people, using their "god" as thy reason. If you believe in what church has made you to believe, then you support oppression, corruption... liberty of expression, and more. An example is the missing link of the human being, found many years ago, but has not came to spread that much, and a factor is the "church" intended to keep the flame on their believers. So yes, what a powerful organization, in do the bad thing.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 02, 2011, 08:32:30 pm
I do not believe in Church. I believe in God, in Jesus. Church is not the God.
But the primary purpose of Church was to help us, folks, meet God. That's why it was created.
It became corrupted though. I agree with you. But not fully. There are many good people out there. People who don't want power, money - they want to help. They want to spread the Word.
I mentioned John Paul II. Do you believe he was corrupted, that he became a pope just to lie, hide information, keep flame on us, believers? I don't. He was a good man. A great man.

I hope Church goes in the right direction.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: solid snake on April 02, 2011, 08:59:32 pm
God does exist. He's just an epic troll.
http://www.iheartchaos.com/post/2461450574/twenty-things-god-is-an-epic-troll
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 02, 2011, 09:33:33 pm
There is as much evidence for God as the Tooth Fairy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Exactly 0.

On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that Christian belief grew up from a small jewish cult and through amazing coincidence ended up polluting the world.

If not for another made up deity who was popular in rome at the time they were trying to sell Jebus to them, we would have very different made up nonsense to learn in school. (There's actually loads more Mithra/Jesus similarities than there are here:

Quote
1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).



As you can now see, Christianity derived many of its essential elements from the ancient religion of Mithraism. Mithraism became intertwined with the cult of Jesus to form what is known today as “Christianity.” Although literary sources on this religion are sparse, an abundance of material evidence exists in the many Mithraic temples and artifacts that archaeologists have found scattered throughout the Roman Empire, from England in the north and west to Palestine in the south and east. The temples were usually built underground in caves, which are filled with an extremely elaborate iconography (illustrating by pictures, figures and images). There were many hundreds of Mithraic temples in the Roman Empire, the greatest concentrations have been found in the city of Rome itself.



There are tens of accounts of pagan gods of many different cultures who were said to have the same attributes as those that Christians claim Jesus had.


Trinity―Trinities were popular in pagan sects before Christianity was introduced to the world. Some of the more well known trinity gods included Mithra-Vohu Mana-Rashnu, Amen-Mut-Khonsu, and Osiris-Isis-Horus.

Virgin Birth―Among the pagan cultures that preceded Christianity, virgin birth stories abounded. The long list of pagan gods born of virgins includes: Romulus and Remus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Mithras, Chrishna, Osiris-Aion, Agdistis, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Korybas, Perseus, and Dionysus.

Disciples―In the following 'saviors' cases, a grouping of disciples was present, just as they were present in Jesus' story: Horus, Buddha, Chrishna, Dionysus, Mithra. Interestingly enough, in the case of Dionysus, his disciple Acoetes was a boatman, just as Jesus' disciple Peter. And just as Peter was freed from jail when the doors miraculously flew open, so was Dionysus' disciple Acoetes. In Budda's case, he, like Jesus, demanded that his disciples renounce all worldly possessions. Yet another instance of similarity is that the disciples of both Jesus and Buddha were said to have been arrested for preaching, as well as witnessed to have "walked on water."

Miracles―Among those 'saviors' who, like Jesus, performed countless miracles include: Horus, Chrishna, Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra, Osirus, and Adonis. Horus was said to have walked on water, just as Jesus did. In addition, Horus raised one man, El-Azarus, from the dead in front of countless witnesses. In the case of Buddha, it was told that he fed five hundred men with one loaf of bread, that he cured lepers, and that he caused the blind to see. Dionysus rescued a person from dying when the person was utterly desolate and placed them among the stars. And he gave food and drink, herbs and berries, to the starving people -- not to mention turning water into wine.

The Sun―Here is another common theory, quoted from S. Acharya's "The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus:" "The reason why all these pagan narratives are so similar to a "god-man" is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.

Or like your old testament? Note how an older Sumerian tale, Gilgamesh makes it into the bible with the much more boring Noah's ark skinned over the top.


Stories are quite fun. Repeating them as fact is not.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: SIGISMUND on April 02, 2011, 09:36:52 pm
People pray to god and belive in him when they are in difficulty.After they got their problems solved they don't even know who  is god.I personally don't really belive.So I think I'm an "atheist" is that the term?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Lizard on April 02, 2011, 09:41:36 pm
Just throwing this in: To whom would you pray, if you're in forlorn situation? Is it better to not to believe in anything at all but (sometimes) humble self - or believe in something that gives you strength on your way of life?

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: SIGISMUND on April 02, 2011, 09:43:59 pm
God exist as much as Santa Clauss ;)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Jimmy BoyX on April 03, 2011, 10:02:15 am
I go to church when I want and need to go there. I believe in God but sometimes I thinking about him. We don't know what is after dead - maybe nothing but maybe there is something special...
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 03, 2011, 12:55:41 pm
God exist as much as Santa Clauss ;)

SANTA CLAUS IS REAALLLL!!!!!!!  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Hololasima on April 03, 2011, 12:57:34 pm
I go to church when I want and need to go there. I believe in God but sometimes I thinking about him. We don't know what is after dead - maybe nothing but maybe there is something special...

6 10 10 1 6 6 ?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Jimmy BoyX on April 03, 2011, 01:08:22 pm
6 10 10 1 6 6 ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: SIGISMUND on April 03, 2011, 01:41:28 pm
666
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Y0ssarian on April 04, 2011, 08:18:02 am
A common mistake in metaphyscis to confuse church with God. The church, much like man is imperfect where as God is perfect.

edit: human progress, are you being satirical? our human nature hasn't changed at all. just the way we kill each other more effectively with bombs of science.  :D
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: SIGISMUND on April 04, 2011, 01:33:25 pm
At the pool there should be.Forced by parents to go at church cuz many christian parents force children to go at church.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 04, 2011, 02:06:58 pm
At the pool there should be.Forced by parents to go at church cuz many christian parents force children to go at church.

Indeed, forced by parents and then became an atheist  ;D . Church in my opinion is the root of too much evil to be worthwhile although in the USA at least if we bothered to tax them...goodbye budget deficit.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Sius on April 04, 2011, 05:00:55 pm
In 2001 only 32.2% out of ~10 mil. Czechs said to believe in some kind of a God or divinity and numbers of believers are still falling since that time. They say that Czech Republic will be the first country where religion will die.

I'm proud to call myself Czech.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Hololasima on April 04, 2011, 05:27:59 pm
In 2001 only 32.2% out of ~10 mil. Czechs said to believe in some kind of a God or divinity and numbers of believers are still falling since that time. They say that Czech Republic will be the first country where religion will die.

I'm proud to call myself Czech.

Truth, i am proud too.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 04, 2011, 06:25:12 pm
My god is trolling all gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Kilgore on April 05, 2011, 08:58:32 am
I do not believe in magic
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 09, 2011, 10:50:49 pm
this is something i had thinked a lot recently, so i think i am ready to tell this somewhere pubic, and do not mind that others tell me that i am mad

I HAD FOUD THE REASON OF LIVE
I now know why we exist, but is hard to tell it str8, now i will try to make you see my point of view:

1. why there is an earth?
The bible tolds us that the earth is a place where our nature is tested, if we are good or bad, etc etc, and after we will go to Heaven or Hell, depending on our choises.
Now we know that The Devil is every where, and he puts his tain so we will go to Hell, and this realy brings more and more people to Hell every year.
In this case, WHY THE HELL THERE IS THE EARTH? can't God tech us his ways and then send us to heaven str8?i mean why do we have to suffer allmoast 100 years here?
Conclusion: The earth is the only place we will ever be, no Hell or Heaven

2. where have we went?
From the begining of time we starded developing thins to "help" us live longer: weapons, tools, houses and today we put those things to the extreme, having our life on the extreme lenght of let's say 100 years.
But this tools create stuff that is toxic to both us and the Nature that created us, now we have Green heads that create mind plowing stuff that does not polute to save momy nature.
But in theory, the same laws of Phisics and the same resources existed in the Stone age and before, so WHY THE HELL DO WE SUPOZE TO CARE ABOUT MOTHER NATURE? if the posibility to create computers-things that we use now- existed back at the rise of man kind, didn't nature suported us in creating "mind plowing dazzels" to travell away from earth?
Conclusion: Mother nature is here to help us make our life artificial, so the are going nowhere.

3. what can we do?
From long ago ages, men and women have tryed to find a way to prelong there lives to... infinit, but we are allready imortal:
Our species lives forever by a man and a women making the future men and women and so do on, making the species imortal.
The discoveryes we and our ancestors made are passed by from the next generations that come in the above procces, there for our wisdom is imortal
But there is something we can't do now: individual imortality, but this is imposible...in our biological body
So the reason for life is to uncover individual IMORTALITY

4. what? why?
This is our reason, mother nature helps us, science has evolved a lot, we are now close than ever to fully artificialize our life by making better metal bodyes that last longer and that are replaceble! SO THIS IS WHAT WE GIVE OUR LIVES FOR!!!!!

But this is just a fragment of my "revelation" is hard for me to explain this to some minds that are not necesarely "undeveloped", but that are not "working" like mine, so to explain this i need more that a forum post, i need to talk to every one that is interessted in this "revelation"

@topic: God is a way to slow down our numbers, make diferences among us(religion) create wars(crucades) slow down proggress(this post (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=15259.msg124791#msg124791))and to make people think: let us die in piece

The ideea of God is good intentioned, but the churches interpretation is not good, probably there is a "God" but i know for sure that there is one in every people mind like a place to take hope and good intentions from.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 09, 2011, 11:49:31 pm
1. why there is an earth?

Conclusion: The earth is the only place we will ever be, no Hell or Heaven

2. where have we went?
Conclusion: Mother nature is here to help us make our life artificial, so the are going nowhere.

3. what can we do?
So the reason for life is to uncover individual IMORTALITY
1) Mars, Moon... hope that someday something far away of our solar system, staying on one place so long is something like sending message about my position via radio and waiting for PK.
2) Ant hive is natural but human house is artificial. Whole point of artificial is too anthropocentric, that it is wrong.
3) Nothing is trully imortal. Humankind will die once and than your "wisdom" or anything you may let behind will end its existence.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: RavenousRat on April 09, 2011, 11:55:09 pm
I HAD FOUD THE REASON OF LIVE
Humans are predators in nature and parasites of nature, if you're not exploiting our planet and using others, then you lost your reason to live, because you can't go against your nature. If you "found" something else, then you're going in wrong way and only think that you found some kind of reason to live.
You have the same reason to live like any other organism in our galaxy, human, dog, fish, virus, microbe, one-celled stuff, etc. Simply you have more developed brain than listed creatures before, so you may start to think, what in fact isn't always good. Drunk/mad brainless people are more adapt to live and survive, because brain doesn't disturb them. And "live and survive" is our reason to live.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cannotspace on April 10, 2011, 02:35:26 am
Religion is like a dick

It's ok to have, but not good to bash on other people
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 10, 2011, 10:58:53 am
Ravenous: simply NO, your argument is invalid. Brain is STILL product of evolution. So you can't think out of the box. You are still an animal, "thinking" can't move you anywhere else. Only sucesfull way of thinking survived and ba thinking died out. Of course, that there are some new ways, that could be good or could be wrong. BUt that the same like with mutation
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 10, 2011, 01:06:38 pm
You are still an animal, "thinking" can't move you anywhere else.
Heh, if that's what you think you are. I like to think of myself being something more than just instinct-driven animal.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 10, 2011, 01:14:04 pm
Floodnik: this way of thinking is usefull, you are moving yourself from nature and on higher position, so you are more likely to destroy nature to survive.

And thats not what I think I am. Thats reality, truth. You are instinct-driven animal. It has been proven already.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Schwartz on April 10, 2011, 01:29:09 pm
My last time in church? Hmmmm... about 4 years ago.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 10, 2011, 02:22:49 pm
you are more likely to destroy nature to survive.
Why? No.
And thats not what I think I am. Thats reality, truth. You are instinct-driven animal. It has been proven already.
And I don't think I am an instinct-driven animal. It's not true for me. It can't be proven. It's just a matter of opinion.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 10, 2011, 03:02:53 pm
nature will not be distroyed by us, Nature will sacrivice itself so we can artivicialize all life in something better
Mother Nature is called a mother beacose it helped us reach this point where she can see her kids grow up and become individual adults, but she has wiled to do the greatest sacrifice so we can be Imortal
so no, we don't distrow Nature by making machines, Nature is just protecting our biological live untill we can create better bodys


For those that played New Vegas, Nature is for Humanity like Cass's mom for Cass(she died as soon as Cass was fully grown)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 10, 2011, 05:57:41 pm
Floodnik: reality doen't stand on opinions. It can be proven quite easilly.

LagMaster: you are joking, right?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 10, 2011, 06:50:59 pm
It can be proven quite easilly.
I don't believe it. It's a philosophical matter. Philosophers were arguing about it for centuries, and you say you can prove it easly? No, not really.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 10, 2011, 08:43:40 pm
LagMaster: you are joking, right?
as i told before, is hard to understand if i tell it str8, but i need to tell you all my philosophy
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 10, 2011, 08:58:26 pm
I don't believe it. It's a philosophical matter. Philosophers were arguing about it for centuries, and you say you can prove it easly? No, not really.
No, It is scientifical matter, like nearly everything. I can describe quite nice test, that have proven this. But would it matter? Would you believe in that?

The problem is, science is not about believing. Hypothesis is either supported by evidence or destroyed by evidence against it. Nothing philosofical. No talking about something you can't define, so anything you can say is right. Hard science man.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 10, 2011, 10:00:32 pm
Science cannot explain e.g. if we are something more than biological organisms, if we have souls etc. There is no proper test to prove that. It is beyond our understanding.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 10, 2011, 10:28:38 pm
1. we are no more than biological organism.

2. define, what is soul

It is not beyond our understanding. It is fake. We have found no evidence for existence of soul, on the other side, we have quite a lot of evidence against it.

Science cannot explain everything. Or conteporary science cannot explain everything. And there is no need for definition of world as absolutely knowable (again, strong evidence for knowable universe, quite strong mathematical proove against absolute knowable universe).
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 10, 2011, 10:36:50 pm
(http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/36/Science_And_Faith.jpg)
inb4 this post gets deleted, censorship much, mods?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Mayck on April 11, 2011, 12:36:49 am
I was in church about 3-4 times in my entire life. I'm atheist from liberal christian family (that means I was offered the freedom to choose), I like to say that I am an atheist with christian values  ;D

It is not beyond our understanding. It is fake. We have found no evidence for existence of soul, on the other side, we have quite a lot of evidence against it.
Evidence against existence of soul? Seriously WTH? Don't get me wrong, I personaly don't believe in some kind of spirit that leaves our dead body after we die. But seriously there is no way to prove it is not like that.

image
It seems to me that many people mistake religion with faith, but those are 2 different things. Faith is something people believe in, something that gives them hope (it doesn't necesserily have to be a faith in god) and it doesn't have to go against science. Religion is set of rules that tells you how to live and what's good what's bad, the main flaw of the religion is that it can and it is heavily used just as tool to gain power, and this way it usually slows down progress. (So there should be written Religion in that picture :) )
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Gorlak on April 11, 2011, 01:28:16 am
Educate yourselves...
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/01/124778.pdf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6056789081969524094#
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 11, 2011, 04:24:36 am
What I don't like about christianity is that when christians get neck-deep in shit, they pray instead of trying to resolve their problems. Praying is not going to make the IRS return you your home. Praying is not going to return you neural capacity below the waist. This is called being lazy. Instead of getting disability welfare or a job, they will sit with a thumb stuck a foot deep in their ass and wait for a rain of 24k gold to fall on their head and solve their problems.

I could say some more smart things, but considering this is a hive of cannibal trolls, I'd be just wasting my time. VOTE FRED PHELPS FOR GM.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 11, 2011, 10:20:00 am
Mayack: yes, there are plenty of them, thermodynamic law eg.

You modern theories are quite consistent, IF there would be ghost, it would have to react with body somehow etc. it would mean mutch more new things, and that our contenporary knowledge is wrong. It could be, but because quite consistency in our theories and no strong prove that they are wrong (eg. no evidence for ghost etc.), this is evidence against ghost. Theory with spirits should explain our conteporary knowledge consistently with new spirits evidence. But hypothesis with spirits don't do that, they try to explain only spirits and try to relativize all our knowledge. Because no real scientist even think of them.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 11, 2011, 03:33:55 pm
Mayack: yes, there are plenty of them, thermodynamic law eg.

You modern theories are quite consistent, IF there would be ghost, it would have to react with body somehow etc. it would mean mutch more new things, and that our contenporary knowledge is wrong. It could be, but because quite consistency in our theories and no strong prove that they are wrong (eg. no evidence for ghost etc.), this is evidence against ghost. Theory with spirits should explain our conteporary knowledge consistently with new spirits evidence. But hypothesis with spirits don't do that, they try to explain only spirits and try to relativize all our knowledge. Because no real scientist even think of them.

Eh, if all that was in reference to a soul you should be careful about what language you use, a ghost and a soul are not necessarily interchangeable, also this is the same shit as "God exists", "No he doesn't there is no evidence to prove it", "There's no evidence to disprove it though!"
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 11, 2011, 06:05:53 pm
A soul is as real as the sky.

In that there is no real "sky", but its a useful shorthand to explain something much more interesting.

Given that you can control moods and movement with chemical and electrical stimuli, there is obviously no need for medieval notions like "souls".
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 11, 2011, 06:32:23 pm
Eh, if all that was in reference to a soul you should be careful about what language you use, a ghost and a soul are not necessarily interchangeable, also this is the same shit as "God exists", "No he doesn't there is no evidence to prove it", "There's no evidence to disprove it though!"
Yeah, wrote about spirit and ghost have possesed my hands... but thats not important.

Yeah, this is shame shit. But God have been disproven many times! It depends on definition of God. God defined by bible was disproven. If you define God, it can be disproven. You can define him (it, whatever) as you like, loose enough, but you have to define it somehow.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 11, 2011, 06:43:48 pm
medieval notions like "souls".
Now you are accusing Christians of being "medieval". Let me accuse you of ignorance.

@Colombo
Are you serious? How can you prove that something a physical person never touched, that isn't subjected to physical laws we know about, doesn't exist? There is no way to do that.
Quote
God defined by bible was disproven.
Nope.

"God exists", "No he doesn't there is no evidence to prove it", "There's no evidence to disprove it though!"
"God doesn't exist", "There is no evidence to prove it, God does exist", "There's no evidence to disprove that he doesn't though!"
Try thinking about it that way.

BTW. Actually, we could tell there is a proof that God exists. Because, since the universe is there, existing, moving on, it's logical for me there somewhere is that unknown force which started it all. Now I just need to keep looking for it(Him?). Find your own God, if Christianity is so wrong for you :)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 11, 2011, 06:55:44 pm
Quote
Now you are accusing Christians of being "medieval". Let me accuse you of ignorance.

Let's agree on pre-renaissance then, if that makes you happy. Those dark dark days before Scientific Method.

Quote
BTW. Actually, we could tell there is a proof that God exists. Because, since the universe is there, existing, moving on, it's logical for me there somewhere is that unknown force which started it all. Now I just need to keep looking for it(Him?). Find your own God, if Christianity is so wrong for you


Yes! Fantastic logic! Nothing can exist without something being there first ... so there must be God ... who existed before ... wait, what?

I know, there must have been a Super-God who created God. But wait - who created Super-God? Mega-God? Ultra-God?


Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: vedaras on April 11, 2011, 06:59:45 pm
Let's agree on pre-renaissance then, if that makes you happy. Those dark dark days before Scientific Method.
 

Yes! Fantastic logic! Nothing can exist without something being there first ... so there must be God ... who existed before ... wait, what?

I know, there must have been a Super-God who created God. But wait - who created Super-God? Mega-God? Ultra-God?


and here Chuck Norris comes in :D
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 11, 2011, 07:41:45 pm
Here basically the defense from the counterpart of believers, about the existence of an entity such as a god, lies in the fact that there is no evidence of the non-existence of them, and they base the creation of all we know, in the possibility that entity exist without proves, only because there is no one able to tell them the reason of the non-existence of him and/or them. hmm. Interesting.

This is so simple to be viewed this side. There are many tales, myth and fantasy, used as a metaphor, and all people know about that to think it is not real, is because has been cataloged as unreal. The reason why the tale of the bible, which mixes history with subliminal fantasy to their readers, is not discarded from reality, has a motive to do with the matter it implies in peoples mind about what they want to believe, they want that “paradise” there described, they want love and the end of all wars, and obviously that is not the part why is this book taken so seriously. This book was used as one of legislation. So, you know what politics search on people. I have not to remind you. I think.

If you want to keep on believing on gods, even now there is able to study how storms, earthquakes or other event of nature is caused, is that you like tales so much, and don't want to see reality (And for example there is a scientific explanation why that lake in the bible book turned red, as blood). You cannot dream on human tales, even if it ruled your childhood. There is a point you must take them apart, open your mind and not solely answer what you don't know, with the same word, over, and over again.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 11, 2011, 09:43:30 pm
the natural calamities is the way mother nature testes and teaches us how to live longer and better in artificializing our lifes
now we are building super smart buildings that can easly wistand earthquakes on 8 degrades on Richter scale, vreom this "dysasters" cauzed by Nature, so we are learning as we fall

anyway, we can't know what was before the Big Bang and we do not know what hapenedd befor, but i belive there are some worlds that exists and we touched them with no reaction, or vice versa, the other dimensions(let me explain:
we are living in a world with 4 dimensions: space(3D) and time, but there are other dimensions or sets of dimensions that are quite like this one, but probably diferent
since we didn't explore those, we can't tell how are they like, but we know they exist
)
but about the big bang, i have saw a theory on Discovery, where the Big Bang was the result of Negative Force, so in one day it will come back on 1 point and then expand again.


Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 11, 2011, 09:50:11 pm
I know, there must have been a Super-God who created God. But wait - who created Super-God? Mega-God? Ultra-God?
I believe God is the Almighty One, there is nothing more powerful than Him. If you want to believe in Super-God or something else, then do. My faith is (fine) as it is.

And for example there is a scientific explanation why that lake in the bible book turned red, as blood
You can explain basicly every major miracle that occured back then - lake turning red, the sea being wide open etc.
The problem is not how they happened, but why they happened and why in that exact time.
It is like it was all planned from the beginning. Moses just found the suitable moment. But how did he know? Does it mean we are a part of some bigger plan?
You can explain the scientific reason for the sea going wide open - gravitational anomalies etc. I'm sure you can also explain the anomaly. But then go deeper and deeper... And you find out it was just a >coincidence< that the entire universe moved the way it helped Jews pass through.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ganado on April 11, 2011, 09:54:02 pm
Yes! Fantastic logic! Nothing can exist without something being there first ... so there must be God ... who existed before ... wait, what?

I know, there must have been a Super-God who created God. But wait - who created Super-God? Mega-God? Ultra-God?
From a religious view point or a scientific view point, it doens't make any sense.

I mean, no matter how you look at it:

- If we both agree Big Bang is true, then what caused Big Bang? What created the matter to let whatever caused the Big Bang happen?
- And then what you said, about what created god. What created God? If a person says "God has been around for all time", then what created 4th Dimension? etc, etc.

Doesn't make sense either way - an infinite cycle, really.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: RavenousRat on April 11, 2011, 09:55:31 pm
I believe God is the Almighty One, there is nothing more powerful than Him. If you want to believe in Super-God or something else, then do. My faith is (fine) as it is.
Still God needs someone to pay to keep our world running, or else it'll be closed. He gaining donations from humans, may be he can even do that with flames, trolling and whining! Depends on whom he pays.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 11, 2011, 09:57:04 pm
now, if we can focus on our goal of creating some new bodyes that can wistand our full potential we will resolve all this questions on no time, but i figure a few problems

in the first Dracula movie(i didn't saw it) the main Hero(or Vilan) had made a pact with the devil: to take away all his emotions, but make him imortal, if we try to do something like:USB in our brain to a computer, we will not have a lot of emotion, moast of our emotions are biological coming from glands(idk if i am right, but in theory if someone does not have over renales(idk name, the glands that give adrenaline) we will not experience, or we will only expirience fear(not sure)but anyway, there is a strong relation emotion-glands. so if we USB our brain we will be like Dracula, we need something to reproduce the influence of the glandes and other organs

about last post, i am not veary sure, but if some of you works in medicine or something can it confirm or diaorove, please
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 11, 2011, 10:16:45 pm
I'm curious whether i am the only one who is laughing at all of lagmaster's posts
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 11, 2011, 10:58:18 pm
From a religious view point or a scientific view point, it doens't make any sense.

I mean, no matter how you look at it:

- If we both agree Big Bang is true, then what caused Big Bang? What created the matter to let whatever caused the Big Bang happen?
- And then what you said, about what created god. What created God? If a person says "God has been around for all time", then what created 4th Dimension? etc, etc.

Doesn't make sense either way - an infinite cycle, really.

Total nonsense.

Science is gradually testing and developing theories to model the universe. We already know things about the universe that are a lot more "unbelievable" than the fairy tales in religious texts - but we know them to be true because we have tested them, refined the theories and gradually come to better understand what we see. Nothing is sacred in Science, so anything can be proven wrong and humankinds understanding can increase.

We know that time is affected by how fast we travel - to someone from the time where religion belongs (pre scientific method) this fact would be a lot less believable than a magic man in the sky creating everything we know.

Was the big bang a collision of branes along the 11th dimension? Are we holographic projections from the edge of the universe? Does a photon travel along EVERY path avaialble to it until its observed, at which point the history of that photon is decided and the history of the universe changes (Which can mean you can effect things which happened 13 billion years ago)?

All sound totally unbelievable - all have varying degrees of evidence supporting them as fact.

The beauty of Science is that it isn't a closed book that claims to have the answers, it says "This is our best understanding of our reality, use evidence to prove it wrong". The exact opposite of religion which says "This is exactly what happened, please ignore the fact we've got absolutly nothing to back this up". 

Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 11, 2011, 11:22:53 pm
@Solar
Christians' beliefs don't collide with science. Actually, these two are pretty much filling eachother up.

magic man in the sky creating everything we know
I don't perceive Him that way. I'd rather say He is everywhere, flowing through the universe, through us.
Try to first understand the concept of God, then argue.

Also, you keep using Science as an argument. To develop something, a man first had to come up with an idea. Then he proves others that it's correct.
If you can't reach out for Him, think of Him as an idea that wasn't yet proven nor disproven. Just like Science, huh?
Some day you're gonna step on evidences. The thing you do wrong is assuming in advance that He doesn't exist*. But you can't know that.

*Just like mediaval christianity did with other scientific ideas  :) You are criticising it, but you're acting exactly the same way.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Crazy on April 11, 2011, 11:44:24 pm
I'd rather say He is everywhere, flowing through the universe, through us.

Remind me of Obi Wan Kenobi.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Solar on April 11, 2011, 11:51:37 pm
Quote
Christians' beliefs don't collide with science. Actually, these two are pretty much filling eachother up.

There are tests being done on fundamental beliefs? People are willing to accept that God does not exist until there is evidence found for him? No.

Religion is completely illogical, it does not accept tests and does not accept the fact it may be total nonsense. The are in no way complimentary.

Religion is a lot more closely linked to a fantasy novel.

Quote
I don't perceive Him that way. I'd rather say He is everywhere, flowing through the universe, through us.
Try to first understand the concept of God, then argue.

The advantage of being made up is that you can be different things to different people. Its why Lord of the Rings being made into a film was a double edged sword - now I can't imagine Sauron or Frodo in any way which is not coloured by the film. I guess you are lucky in that way, noone has done the definitive version of god to ruin your story.

Quote
Also, you keep using Science as an argument. To develop something, a man first had to come up with an idea. Then he proves others that it's correct.
If you can't reach out for Him, think of Him as an idea that wasn't yet proven nor disproven. Just like Science, huh?

Correct. He is a hypothesis. There is just no evidence to back it up after much searching, so its a failed hypothesis.

Quote
Some day you're gonna step on evidences. The thing you do wrong is assuming in advance that He doesn't exist

Haha, let's get passed 2012 and the end of the Mayan calander. One crack pot theory at a time please.

Quote
You are criticising it, but you're acting exactly the same way.

Untrue. I accept that even the best model we have is probably an approximation. I accept that even the most fundamental theory has the potential to be totally wrong. I even accept there is a remote chance that Lion-O and god are playing Poker in Valhalla as I type this.

All just a matter of proof.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ganado on April 12, 2011, 12:35:51 am
Total nonsense.
"snip"
Yes, you're right in the sense that Scientific theories come a lot closer to "the beginning" than any religion does.

I don't even really care for the book of Genesis, but my point was that even if you try to trace the beginning, neither side can give you an exact answer. Science can get a really close answer, but still isn't the exact beginning. I don't think the exact beginning will ever be found, because it seems to be infinite.

But I don't know much about the 11th dimension, so I can't debate with you about that, sorry.  :-[
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 12, 2011, 01:19:20 am
The beauty of Science is that it isn't a closed book that claims to have the answers, it says "This is our best understanding of our reality, use evidence to prove it wrong". The exact opposite of religion which says "This is exactly what happened, please ignore the fact we've got absolutely nothing to back this up". 

I must agree. Fact to blame religion blindly, while not to science, that let us learn if from our mistakes it's necessary.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Sius on April 12, 2011, 01:31:49 am
Quote
At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst.

And I agree with someone who mentioned it before, that man is just another animal driven by instincts. No matter how high our IQ may go, no matter how noble we may get, no matter whenever we have souls or not, we are just animals as any other.

Just search for another topic here in offtop section, it was something like "what would you do if the world is about to end". And I would say majority of people there let their "inner beast" out and wrote down the truth or at least part of it. Simply my point is that only thing that differs us from animals right now is a fear of punishment. Remove that from equation and you will be amazed what would our precious little society here on Earth turned out to be. Only strong will survive. Also with our numerous gadgets it would be a little more complex than fistfights but strong does not discriminate between muscles or mind. Simply we would get back to natural selection that mankind seems to avoid quiet successfully these days (which is imho the main source of our doom=overpopulation). We've reached such absurd point that even those who don't want to be anymore (now I mean f.e. extreme cases of paralysis, when man becomes trapped inside his body and absolutely dependent on others) are kept alive no matter what.

We consider our lives as something precious, something more, yet we slaughter endless numbers of animals every day with no remorse - arguing, that they are just mindless animals with no souls. But we were at the exactly same point in our evolution as they are now in theirs. At the point that we were HOMO-something we were literary just another animals on the surface of the planet. So by this logic if some more intelligent race came back then and started to breed us for meat, skin or labor, then it would have been ok right? We were just mindless animals with no souls therefore the life of the member of that "upper" race is worth more than life of the animal(=man).


To get back to topic about religion, then my general opinion is that most (if not all) religion were made as a tool to control masses. Make them obey, make them fear, make them pay... And in modern times like these religion is slowly passing this role onto media.

And to somehow end this brainstorm of mine, I'll leave you with something to think about:

Quote
Is God able to create object so heavy that he won't be able to lift it?
- If yes, then he is not almighty.
- If no, then he is not omnipotent.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 12, 2011, 01:53:40 am
Simply my point is that only thing that differs us from animals right now is a fear of punishment.

We only differ from the rest of the animal kingdom in our rational way of think.

Simply we would get back to natural selection that mankind seems to avoid quiet successfully these days (which is imho the main source of our doom=overpopulation). We've reached such absurd point that even those who don't want to be anymore (now I mean f.e. extreme cases of paralysis, when man becomes trapped inside his body and absolutely dependent on others) are kept alive no matter what.

I agree. We are getting weaker and weaker, while confort kill us, as our lives pass.

We consider our lives as something precious, something more, yet we slaughter endless numbers of animals every day with no remorse - arguing, that they are just mindless animals with no souls. But we were at the exactly same point in our evolution as they are now in theirs.

We are the same as the rest. I think no soul there for any animal, nor vegetal...

At the point that we were HOMO-something we were literary just another animals on the surface of the planet. So by this logic if some more intelligent race came back then and started to breed us for meat, skin or labor, then it would have been ok right? We were just mindless animals with no souls therefore the life of the member of that "upper" race is worth more than life of the animal(=man).

We STILL are Homos, Homo-Sapiens. And the reason why Cromagnon prevails over Neanderthal is SOCIABILTY, the Cromagnon used to hunt in groups, use dogs to help the job. They used to save their supplies too, meanwhile Neanderthals were living the present, without expecting the possible lack of food in the future. This despite Neanderthals more big craneal capacity, ignoring the surface of his brain, being compared to the one of the Cromagnon.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 12, 2011, 01:59:20 am
Another thing that let us develop our brain greatly, is the creativity of our ancestors, and the people who continue doing art, the way it may be expressed. And there we have all religions, as a product of the creativity and desire to rule of the human being.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ganado on April 12, 2011, 02:17:11 am
And I agree with someone who mentioned it before, that man is just another animal driven by instincts. No matter how high our IQ may go, no matter how noble we may get, no matter whenever we have souls or not, we are just animals as any other.

Just search for another topic here in offtop section, it was something like "what would you do if the world is about to end". And I would say majority of people there let their "inner beast" out and wrote down the truth or at least part of it. Simply my point is that only thing that differs us from animals right now is a fear of punishment. Remove that from equation and you will be amazed what would our precious little society here on Earth turned out to be. Only strong will survive. Also with our numerous gadgets it would be a little more complex than fistfights but strong does not discriminate between muscles or mind. Simply we would get back to natural selection that mankind seems to avoid quiet successfully these days (which is imho the main source of our doom=overpopulation). We've reached such absurd point that even those who don't want to be anymore (now I mean f.e. extreme cases of paralysis, when man becomes trapped inside his body and absolutely dependent on others) are kept alive no matter what.
Yes, but we ourselves created this "fear of punishment" or "system of rules". Animals can't grasp that. If something were to go wrong like a nuclear war or something, and human advancement is pushed back, it is still in our nature to progress and form societies.

But I agree that overpopulation will become a major problem as the earth reaches 10 billion by like 2050 or 2100, whatever the estimate is.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Sius on April 12, 2011, 02:32:11 am
We only differ from the rest of the animal kingdom in our rational way of think.
You did not get me. My point is that most of us, no matter how noble mankind could be, would not hesitate when it comes to "natural selection scenario". Those who would hesitate => would be weak => would have to pass the right to live to stronger ones.

We STILL are Homos, Homo-Sapiens. And the reason why Cromagnon prevails over Neanderthal is SOCIABILTY, the Cromagnon used to hunt in groups, use dogs to help the job. They used to save their supplies too, meanwhile Neanderthals were living the present, without expecting the possible lack of food in the future. This despite Neanderthals more big craneal capacity, ignoring the surface of his brain, being compared to the one of the Cromagnon.
I know that we are Homo sapiens, but again you did not get it. I meant that by our own logic if we could timetravel and bring back our prehistoric ancestors and then as said breed them for meat/skin/labor, then it should be completely ok with everyone (except vegetarians/vegans). Because where is the crime? Its just an animal, so what? What difference does it make whenever it is sociable or not? Killer-whales are capable of sociability, such as many other animals. Yet do you see us trying to save every single one of them even those crippled ones? Does whole families dedicate their lives to feed crippled animals, that won't be able to live on their own ever again?

Through seeing ourselves as something more, something with soul, something created by god to his own image we have set out a journey on deadly path.

We only differ from the rest of the animal kingdom in our rational way of think.
Which will ultimately be not just ours but their doom too.


Yes, but we ourselves created this "fear of punishment" or "system of rules". Animals can't grasp that. If something were to go wrong like a nuclear war or something, and human advancement is pushed back, it is still in our nature to progress and form societies.
Just because one species happened to choose the right time between meteor showers and had good conditions to develop uninterrupted does not make them superior to others. Where could dolphins be in a quadrizilion years from now? They could rule the galaxy as far as I'm concerned.

I would call mankind being advanced in progress/thinking just a lucky coincidence.

So long and thanks for all the fish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6b3V2MNxQ&feature=related)



Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: JustGreat on April 12, 2011, 04:24:44 am
Was the big bang a collision of branes along the 11th dimension? Are we holographic projections from the edge of the universe? Does a photon travel along EVERY path avaialble to it until its observed, at which point the history of that photon is decided and the history of the universe changes (Which can mean you can effect things which happened 13 billion years ago)

String theory is not even properly normalizable yet, let alone using de Sitter space to explain the origins of the universe. ::) Photons travel along the path of least action (both classically and quantum mechanically), what does their path traveled have to do with them being observed?

A lot of people, more so evident in atheists, is their belief about the superiority of science when it comes to the metaphysical. From my point of view this is amusing considering science still has trouble to explain the physical.  :P

Science is much like religion more than you would like to believe. Scientists are hostile to new ideas if they go against very established principles and a lot of theory is very hard to show wrong (you can get correct results and have the wrong theory  :-\), much like it is very hard to show the existence of god as wrong.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 12, 2011, 04:46:20 pm
There are tests being done on fundamental beliefs? People are willing to accept that God does not exist until there is evidence found for him? No.
Didn't I mention experiencing God in your life already? Someone who did, doesn't need more proofs. He is gonna believe. You're not gonna "touch" Him if you don't try. You won't understand.

Religion is completely illogical, it does not accept tests and does not accept the fact it may be total nonsense. The are in no way complimentary.

Religion is a lot more closely linked to a fantasy novel.
Religion being total nonsense isn't a fact. It's a statement you, eniemies of religion created. And going to stand by it.
I already said religion doesn't collide with science and your beloved facts. That's what I think.

Correct. He is a hypothesis. There is just no evidence to back it up after much searching, so its a failed hypothesis.
Again: it's personal.

Haha, let's get passed 2012 and the end of the Mayan calander. One crack pot theory at a time please.
And who mentioned that? The only Christians who claim they know when the world is ended are the so called "Jehovah's Witnesses"(if that's how you call them in english). But nowhere in Bible is there a clear date given.

All just a matter of proof.
Indeed. Proof you have to search for if you want to find it  :)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 12, 2011, 05:01:33 pm
Many of you should study biology more, because:

We are not only one with creativity.
We are not only one with rational thinking.
We are the only one that make those important things (antropic princip)

About evolution, evolution is more about "survival of the luckiest" so only antropic princip gives good answer for "why we are here?"

Science have made great progress. Many of those arguing "science can't explain all things" should study more, because they would realize, that many of those things that science can't explain were already explained.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: cogliostro on April 12, 2011, 07:51:18 pm
You did not get me. My point is that most of us, no matter how noble mankind could be, would not hesitate when it comes to "natural selection scenario".
I get what you said but, what that have to do with this? Obviously If we are a sane animal, wouldn't hesitate. No?
Those who would hesitate => would be weak => would have to pass the right to live to stronger ones.
I understand your point of view. What are you trying to inculcate with that? Why If we choose the one of our own selection, are we being weak? Living for the stronger? I think not.
I know that we are Homo sapiens, but again you did not get it. I meant that by our own logic if we could timetravel and bring back our prehistoric ancestors and then as said breed them for meat/skin/labor, then it should be completely ok with everyone (except vegetarians/vegans).
No exceptions, I doubt in the past when humans used to hunt more for survival have been vegetarians, when they ate basically meat. Agriculture happens later (Sedentary), when earlier was the hunting, but also harvesting berries (Omnivore).
Because where is the crime? Its just an animal, so what? What difference does it make whenever it is sociable or not? Killer-whales are capable of sociability, such as many other animals. Yet do you see us trying to save every single one of them even those crippled ones? Does whole families dedicate their lives to feed crippled animals, that won't be able to live on their own ever again?
Then you are writting about what we are or could be. Killer whales kill because of food, same as we, If there were nothing more else to do. I do not know about the life of a whale to answer If they feed crippled who are going to die, or are being left for dead.
Through seeing ourselves as something more, something with soul, something created by god to his own image we have set out a journey on deadly path.
Which will ultimately be not just ours but their doom too.
The term god has been created by Hominids, old prophets of Asia Minor invented for a purpose added, product of their creativity, power and the use of it over the other populations, who respected them and believe every single word coming out of: their mouths/manuscripts, and using that power and respect to take advantage and restrict their actions, now working as laws. Meanwhile they were giving answer to people of why they exists (but prophets can't), so they invented god as the creative force. There you have the dual-task conducted so well.
We are not only one with creativity.
But we have more creativity than other animals. There has never been said other animals weren't creative at a certain point.
We are not only one with rational thinking.
As well as hominids act very irrational at times. But this is based most in the fact we can restrain before perform something, thinking about benefits and consequences. It's about the level that fact holds.
We are the only one that make those important things (antropic princip)
About evolution, evolution is more about "survival of the luckiest" so only antropic princip gives good answer for "why we are here?"
I don't know about that principle, If you could explain more about the correlation between it and the thread, would be great.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 12, 2011, 08:24:47 pm
Quote
But we have more creativity than other animals. There has never been said other animals weren't creative at a certain point.
Yeah, and horse have bigger penis. Does it mean that horse is better than human? That it is not animal? Creativity is only important for humans.

Quote
As well as hominids act very irrational at times. But this is based most in the fact we can restrain before perform something, thinking about benefits and consequences. It's about the level that fact holds.
Even when you think you behave rationale, in most times you only rationalize what you subconsciousness ordered to do.

Quote
I don't know about that principle, If you could explain more about the correlation between it and the thread, would be great.
It is quite simple.

Questin many people ask: "Why there is universe and everything so we could live, breed childrens and be happy? Why we have such inteligence and free will to be good or evil?"
answer through (weak) antropocentric principl: if universe was different, you wouldn't ask that question.

Creativity is important only for human, from evolution point of view, it is something like bigger penis for horse. It helps to breed more and survive (breeding is waaaay important than survive, the survival should be "survive till can breed")
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: T-888 on April 12, 2011, 10:06:24 pm
My programing does not include this " god ".
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 13, 2011, 02:17:25 am
People rely on god too much. So much they can't help themselves anymore.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 13, 2011, 03:10:51 am
Colombo how is creativity only important for humans? We evolved faster thus it is currently important for us but other species will get there (if we don't destroy them)

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/04/clever-crows-complex-cognition.html

Give it a couple of million years and it's "creativity" or "intelligence" will be a great asset to that particular species of birds.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ganado on April 13, 2011, 04:15:01 am
That bird is probably smarter than most people  ;D
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 13, 2011, 04:48:32 am
Wish i could remember the site but there was also a video of them dropping nuts on streets and letting cars crack them open, then returning to eat. Pretty smart in my opinion  ;D
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 13, 2011, 07:47:46 am
you know where God is?
somewhere over here:
(http://www.ipmc.cnrs.fr/~duprat/neurophysiology/images/brain2.jpg)
is a place in the brain for some to go and find hope
do you know what religion does?
it does something like this to the population:
(http://www.thatreligiousstudieswebsite.com/images_trsw/Ethics/hitler.jpg)
if there was someone that whanted peace to the world and wanted to create peace had invented God: a beeing superior that dystroys evil
To bad some sick minds that not neceseraly whants to be evil created religions
since every religion belives that they are more true than others, they fight ech other, in some moments in history there where battles considered "holy"(like the cruciades) and have mass killed people, so they where "evil" but conidered to be the light of God
The diferent religions create even bigger diferences of people, and difirances make argues and big argues create wars, so the puprose of God was to create peace and it only created more war for some bad interpretation
and furder more even the bible says some stupid things at some point, even evil thigs(like God helped David to deafet some atackers by making the day longer)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 13, 2011, 04:34:58 pm
People rely on god too much. So much they can't help themselves anymore.
Man, what people did you meet ;o
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 13, 2011, 04:41:39 pm
Colombo how is creativity only important for humans? We evolved faster thus it is currently important for us but other species will get there (if we don't destroy them)

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/04/clever-crows-complex-cognition.html

Give it a couple of million years and it's "creativity" or "intelligence" will be a great asset to that particular species of birds.
Blablabla.
1. you don't understand evolution. There is no reason why should be better "inteligence" and "creativity" better than stronger pecker etc. And when you mean "inteligence" you mean "inteligence, that have some structure as human inteligence". Even green mold have high inteligence.

2. Yes, creativity may be important for other spiecies, but the only important for species is to survive and evolve into new species. No matter which way evolution will go. Wings? Stronger claws? More progeny? Higher ressistance against disease? Inteligence and creativy is main way of evolution of human, but that doesn't mean it is something special for other species etc. More aggresive kind of human with great number of childrens could be more sucesfull than highly inteligent and creative thing.
3. In our species, creativity is not only supported as better tool for survive (we could even talk about no need of that high creativity), but it is effect of sexual selection. Something like long neck of Giraffes.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 13, 2011, 05:31:56 pm
Man, what people did you meet ;o
Basically anyone I knew in the place where I lived in the old country. People there were all religious and all not working. They thought they were too good to get the jobs that were available. I know these jobs were not going to provide them a lot of money, but still enough to live. People had ideas to run businesses of their own, but they didn't because they were too scared to dare for a chance of success or failure. They resorted to prayer, blind god/pope worship, unemployment welfare, business indevelopment phobia and a 24/7 couch-sitting routine, except when they go to church to beg god for a golden shower. Economy began to cripple, people wouldn't buy things because everything looked too expensive for them. The streets began to be dangerous, I've seen people get robbed over a dime's worth, such good christians they are they think they're too good to obey the 7th commandment.
I on the other hand managed to escape.

P.S. I'm talking about this sort of golden shower.
(http://www.sportaphile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/scrooge-mcduck-make-it-rain.jpg)
Your watersport fetishes are not to be found here.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 13, 2011, 07:56:57 pm
That's pretty bad then. No doubt you are negative towards Christians now. But let me tell you - you knew the wrong ones.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: LagMaster on April 13, 2011, 08:08:32 pm
That's pretty bad then. No doubt you are negative towards Christians now. But let me tell you - you knew the wrong ones.
all the religions are wrong, i mean if every religion tells tehy are the moast truthfull and the moast close to God, than they are all false
stop beeing so ignorant, church is bad somethimes, but God was meant to be good, belive in moral and in what god you whant. Do not listen to the churches
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Gruik on April 13, 2011, 08:28:11 pm
In any cases, religion now is fucked up and no one can say different... People kill each other for it, begin wars, close their minds, slow progress, and this since 2000 years. For previous religions, like Greeks', Vikings', Asians', Egyptians', I don't really know 'cause they come from very far... Catholicism and Islam like we know it (and few others from them, I'm not very interessed in...) are based on the same crazy story of a crazy man, only interpretation changes. Well, nobody think the same way and there'll always be somebody to cry about this mess, and I don't really care because it's not a problem for me... In our lives we already got too much problems to care about that, if you can't think by yourself and understand that logic and science are the only explanations, it's your problem.

But don't misunderstand me, I will never criticize somebody's opinion, as I said I don't care about religion, I respect others' beliefs.

I believe in nothing like this, but unlike I read on firsts page, it doesn't mean I "believe in nothing". I believe in me and try to believe in others and it's hard enough to not complicate my life with unexplicable (or soon-explicable, or I don't know what) things.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 13, 2011, 09:29:40 pm
I don't understand evolution? It's you that thinks there was no reason to evolve intelligence instead of a bigger/stronger dick. When our species was too large to hide from predators all the time (such as rodents and whatnot) and too small/weak to become top of the food chain we had to do something different than everything else so we evolved more complex/useful brains. Please don't say i don't understand evolution and have a terrible argument that proves that your the one that's a dipshit. For example sexual selection? Giraffes have long necks so they can reach ALL of the food on the trees where they live, granted I'm not sure what you mean by sexual selection but I'm quite certain there was nothing sexual about their long necks.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 13, 2011, 09:39:44 pm
Slave: yes, you don't understand evolution. Long neck for giraffes is realy sexy and not primarly usefull. (thats kind of new information, 5 years new or something...)

And no, that what you do is "we have higher inteligence, so why we have higher inteligence? It must have helped us to survive".
The right answer is, that higher inteligention is with close corelation with brain and our brain evolved to have good perception of deep and colors. Yeah, than in proven usefull, but inteligence was there because of evolution of brain for colour.

You don't understand evolution, like many people. There is no "we were large SO WE evolved inteligence" (and no, that is wrong answer, our survive had nothing to do with foodchain, zebras or elefants aren't on top of foodchain and don't need high inteligence) but rather "we were larger to hide and weaker to fight (what isn't true) so everything what helped group to survive AND what was already in group was propagated"

Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ganado on April 13, 2011, 09:52:10 pm
It's all about opposable thumbs, man. Allows us to use tools effectively.

Anyway, this argument about evolution has devolved into something that isn't related to religion at all, so it is rather pointless for this thread. We should get back to uselessly arguing our points in religion.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 13, 2011, 09:54:01 pm
Did i state we were large so we evolved intelligence? I stated we went a different path due to the fact that we were NOT the largest/strongest or a small and easily hidden animal, please actually read my posts. If we had been the biggest baddest mother fuckers on the food chain there would have been no need to develop more intelligence as of yet. Zebra's developed speed and elephants developed size, they didn't go in the direction we did. Your giraffe comment, re read the journal of evolution or whatever it is you do, the only thing scientists believe it may have to do with any type of mating is the fact that male giraffes will "fight" each other during mating season to "win" a female and those with longer necks strike more powerful blows against the others.

I'm also curious without intelligence what predator do you think humans could have overcome?

P.S.
Abe this is called off topic ;P
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 13, 2011, 10:01:24 pm
Slave: this debate is realy offtopic, so we should move elsewhere.
I study evolution.
It is not so easy.
Sexual selection create realy strong drift.
There was no predator we should fear. Many monkeys are in same situation, the only threat are another monkey.
Humans can outrun Zebras. Main defensive strategy for elefants and Zebras ain't speed or size, but group. (some elefants are realy big and realy aggresive)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Y0ssarian on April 13, 2011, 10:21:07 pm
We're so evolved and intelligent that we still kill each other even with our big brains. Like driving drunk and being charged with manslaughter. That's the finest showcase of true intelligence and evolution. It would have been a large step in our so called evolution if we were without brains at all! :P

You study something really funny... just saying.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 13, 2011, 10:38:24 pm
You just don't understand and what you are saying is wrong.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Y0ssarian on April 14, 2011, 02:35:49 am
And life still goes on. ^^

But isn't truth relative to a persons' subjective experience of the matter? You say I'm wrong and I say I'm right. Both sides of a argument can't be right or that would be a logical fallacy. So can you answer for me with 100% certainty your studies are 100% correct 100% of time with 0% margrin of error? Just as I cannot tell you your wife/husband/anime character(lol) will love you when you wake up in the morning. That's faith. Pure and simple.

Anyways back on topic. Yes I believe in church, I mean, holy shit... there's a building establishment you can physically see called a church. Now to believe in some sort of entity like God is a whole new ball game. :C
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 14, 2011, 10:12:50 am
You are wrong, because you take "inteligence" as something spiritual or what. But inteligence is product of evolution. Whole brain is.

Yeah, I cannot be 100% sure, but whole science operate with-> define hypothesis-> create experiment, that could falsificate it. And, i could easily change opinion if there would be enough evidence against it.
Those, who operate with faith can't.

I think, that christianity etc. is wrong, from solely that reason, that they must be right and everything other is wrong, other beliefs, that don't differ from them. Why should christianity be right? Only because region, where I live, has christian background? Thats stupid. Thats no evidence.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Y0ssarian on April 14, 2011, 11:56:19 pm
Your faith system regarding how science works sounds as blind as religion to be honest.

But surely I can be the forerunner of the subject on biology and be a priest/monk at the same time? But, wouldn't those 2 values conflict with each other by your later statements?

Also intelligent is the measurement from 1-10, if I am incorrect Fallout Gods strike me down here and now.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 15, 2011, 03:54:57 pm
Your faith system regarding how science works sounds as blind as religion to be honest.
Explain how I define axioms and live by them. The only "faith" or believe I have is, that the world is knowable, not absolutely knowable, but knowable.
The only possibility how THAT could be the same as ANY OTHER RELIGION is only by total ignorance of speaker, thus you. So, science is NOT just ANOTHER KIND OF RELIGION. Yeah, many people don't know it and create some pseudoscience (homeopatics etc.) and believe in them, they talk about it from position of poor sheeps, and that some scientist TOLD them or SAID that it works. No own thinking if thats true or something else.

The problem in history of science is, that science is quite new. Definition of science is realy new, in that way of testing hypothesis and that nothing is for sure. There were forerunners that did realy nice research, uite close to modern science. eg. Mendel (more mathematican or one of first informatic). But statement, that they were religious people (eg. priests) so faith and science do not conflict is wrong. Too strong from this evidence. You could only say, that for some people, in some areas of science, it does not create conflict. Thats true statemant from those fact. Not what you have created. Lets test it.
For all people, there is area of science where faith and science do not create conflict.
-> quite strong statemant. Badly testable. We have to define areas (eg. biology, mathematics etc.) and it depends on them. The smaller the area we create, the higher probability would have our statements... It would be probably math, because it is so abstract, that even religious fanatics don't have opinion on it. But we could find at at least one religious fanatics, that would deny nearly every other part of sciecne. From physic, to biology (eg. evolution and institute of Discovery, bleh...)
Do the rest of it for homework.... I just don't know why I write it. I should probably delete it, but I wanna to fight this battle against ignorance.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: TommyTheGun on April 15, 2011, 05:13:59 pm
You guys never let go, eh?

Let it go for f*s sake.

Let people have their own beliefs - as long as your religion motivates you to be a better person - its allright.

If you dont need religion and you want to be a better person because of your personal morality (?) - its allright.

As HH Dalai Lama often says - If you want to make the world better place, start with yourself, not with the others. I suggest doing so, letting others stay in their own world, no matter how wrong ("not right") it seems to be. None of us have any rights to say if somethings wrong.

Every religion can be wrong. EVERY.

Every hypotesis in science can be wrong. EVERY.

I for instance consider myself agnostic/atheist. I follow the rules I consider to be worth following. But try to respect everyone who resects me. I dont believe the god exist, but also know it exists - some people see it as a beardo guy some as a big triangle with an eye some people see it as a science's wonderful world - it's just the matter of definition - we all believe in God - we just see it differently. Main point - let people live their lives - concentrate on yourself - on trying to be a better person :)

In real life im a total douche and asshole - but still - I try to follow my rules and it feels great - Because ive chosen what to believe :) I often laugh at different religions, criticise them and such - not to piss someone or to change someone's point of view. Just for laughs.

And why I write it? I'm really bored at work right now :)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Y0ssarian on April 15, 2011, 07:03:14 pm
Yeah, I cannot be 100% sure

That's pretty much like religion.



I just don't know why I write it. I should probably delete it, but I wanna to fight this battle against ignorance.

Why are you compelled to fight my ignorance? I take graditude that you care for a stranger like me. I will remember and love you always. As the man who brought enlightenment to my world, his name, my dear Colombo. <3

P.S You don't need to test this statement. I truely do love you 100%!  :P


"It's always worth while speaking to a clever man."
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 15, 2011, 10:44:41 pm
Quote
That's pretty much like religion.
????????? Thats total oposite of religion. Ok, my english is not the brightest, but there is difference between "can" and "cannot"
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 16, 2011, 04:41:09 pm
Just let it go there is some who never experienced nothing in theri life, no spirutual wierd stuff, no halucinations and showings of any kind.... some poeple will just never feel it or see it... and by my thinking they will die blind.... of course u do not die and go to heaven and fuck 30 virgins... but im sure there is something wierd something u will never be able to explain not ur stupid fuckin science and not ur stupid religions....... but some people thinking they are smart and trying to prove we are the only ones in the galaxy or there is no such thing as a god or love or ghostly fucked up shit..... u are retarted if u think so.... i personally had plenty of encouters with crazy shit in my life time, i lived all around the world and met alot of people... some people were crazy but some people were smart and crazy. I remeber meeting a guy in jail he told me his whole life story and a story about his sister who was calling ghosts as a kid with her freinds on the graveyard trying to be cool satanist's or atheist dumb fucks who made fun of it.... there was 3 girls 1 killed her self 5 days after the other one is still in a metnal institue and the third is a vegetable and dosent talk to anybody.... this guy was around 50 years old, he was convicted of assualt times 2 casuing bodly harm he broke a guys nose he smashed him so hard the piece of the bone went up to the guys brain... the guy was in hells angels, he didnt belive in god but he sure hell was scared when  he was talkinga bout that..... one day u primitive fucks will learn i hope not the hard way... but some of u will never learn and will live a lie... either going to church praying for nothing or just not beliving in shit and proving everybody wrong with science, which of course in my opinion is a bunch of bullshit u cannot prove anything of this topic with science....
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 16, 2011, 05:43:52 pm
Just let it go there is some who never experienced nothing in theri life,
Thats ad hominum
no spirutual wierd stuff, no halucinations and showings of any kind.... some poeple will just never feel it or see it...
Thats wrong. And what changed chemical state of brain have to do with uderstanding of religion or science?
and by my thinking they will die blind....
Thats only your opinion. You can go back to jungle, sniff koka there and die "enlightened", do not use computer, it is product of science and it makes you blind!
of course u do not die and go to heaven and fuck 30 virgins...
Of course your faith is more real than any other fait.
but im sure there is something wierd something u will never be able to explain not ur stupid fuckin science and not ur stupid religions.......
And what do you do there isn't religion? Completly.
but some people thinking they are smart and trying to prove we are the only ones in the galaxy
Who? Only those who believe in creation do think of that. Or many weird people.
or there is no such thing as a god or love or ghostly fucked up shit..... u are retarted
And thats why?
if u think so.... i personally had plenty of encouters with crazy shit in my life time, i lived all around the world and met alot of people...
And thats important why?
some people were crazy but some people were smart and crazy. I remeber meeting a guy in jail he told me his whole life story and a story about his sister who was calling ghosts as a kid with her freinds on the graveyard trying to be cool satanist's or atheist dumb fucks who made fun of it.... there was 3 girls 1 killed her self 5 days after the other one is still in a metnal institue and the third is a vegetable and dosent talk to anybody.... this guy was around 50 years old, he was convicted of assualt times 2 casuing bodly harm he broke a guys nose he smashed him so hard the piece of the bone went up to the guys brain... the guy was in hells angels, he didnt belive in god but he sure hell was scared when  he was talkinga bout that.....
And thats important why?
one day u primitive fucks will learn i hope not the hard way... but some of u will never learn and will live a lie... either going to church praying for nothing or just not beliving in shit and proving everybody wrong with science, which of course in my opinion is a bunch of bullshit u cannot prove anything of this topic with science....
So you know that thruth and don't live in lie? And you know it, because some old man waiting for capital punishment in prison told you?
I can't prove anything? You know that, because?

You man told us lots of your opinions, but no arguments for those. Only that you think of us as fuckers. Thats nice. Realy. You can leave or fucking society and live your life in trip and experience all that wierd stuff. Or did you meant something different?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 16, 2011, 07:18:59 pm
First of all if i started telling u stories about anything spiritual i would write non stop.... i proly would have to have my ashtray beside me whiile i write because it makes me go mad, i am sorry if my grammar isnt "" good enough"" to be on your level.
I was not talking about church... i was talking about something that u will never understand not me nor anybody on this planet. If everyhappend BY aciddent like u people claim and that everything came into pieces like apuzzle designed the way we could never imagine or figure out...... a human brain for example.

Every person has something in them.... it might not be god but it is something, but smart assholes and wana be phylosofers like u allways have an anserw to everything in life.

I was raised a catholic but when i see my mother who is allmost dead brain washed from some shit it makes me laugh. but you are not gonna tell me that in life when u have astronamical chances of surviving of allmost dying losing ur arm and liters of blood when and u still manage to survive and have ur arm stiched and stapeld up,
 when things in life should not happen but somehow they happen, when your scientists and cant explain fuck all when they come to that dead end and give assumptions about life and death with bullshit theorys..... THATS when u come to realization and dont look straight foward like those dumb fucks who bite into religion hard, but u dont look everywhere trying to know everything like people like u.

I respect your theory and just because i had a fucked tough life dosent mean i bust gunners of yayzzzzzz on the table like im living in a white world.... i dont even want to start talking kid if i saw u in real life and looked u in the eyes and talked to you for half an hour u  would see what i mean, u wouldnt have the balls to say anything but even if u did u wouldnt be able to it... so lock ur jaw kid and stop acting like u know something.... non of u people know anything about spiritualilty, god ........ no 1 does no1 ever will. peace out man u just wasted the last dime bag i had and my last smokes.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Floodnik on April 16, 2011, 09:31:57 pm
I see what you mean, but... too aggresive, man.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 16, 2011, 10:30:04 pm
This thread in a nutshell:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s82/Riutse/Everyone_is_wrong2.png)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Surf on April 16, 2011, 10:34:08 pm
One of the few occassions where I agree with you on.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: lehytek on April 16, 2011, 10:40:19 pm
One of the few occassions where I agree with you on.
That post in a nutshell:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_q_Lz38rjotM/ShMbz__J60I/AAAAAAAABmw/nyWuxAZJ3g8/s320/illus9.jpg)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 16, 2011, 10:42:28 pm
I see what you mean, but... too aggresive, man.
I don't. Can you explain it to me? From my point, he just say that I can't understand it, because ???, that there is something higher, because ???, that science is shit because he dont understand hit (his whole point about "be accident" is flawed)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 17, 2011, 01:52:13 am
I don't. Can you explain it to me? From my point, he just say that I can't understand it, because ???, that there is something higher, because ???, that science is shit because he dont understand hit (his whole point about "be accident" is flawed)


BECAUSE   ??? ??? ??? YOUR A SIMPLE MINDED DUMB FUCK.......

''
''
''
''
''
''
'v'



That has no argument at all.      No more replys to these kinds of subjects which envolve personal fealings and experiences in LIFE.... yes REAL life .... u know give it hard to ur wife so she want u forever  and affording enough to live in this concreete jungle.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Surf on April 17, 2011, 09:28:52 am
For a start, writing in proper english so you don't look like a complete idiot might help you for getting other people to take you serious.
Second, you accuse other people being "simple minded fucks" , but never really come up with actual arguments, except "lol u r wrong, because I say so.". If you want to keep on entertaining the people with posts like these, go on, though.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 17, 2011, 12:56:39 pm
For a start, writing in proper english so you don't look like a complete idiot might help you for getting other people to take you serious.
Second, you accuse other people being "simple minded fucks" , but never really come up with actual arguments, except "lol u r wrong, because I say so.". If you want to keep on entertaining the people with posts like these, go on, though.


Surf i dont need people to take me serious, again i say my english sucks but i speak 5 languages so i think im pretty good considering those facts, and of course i do not have proper arguments about these kind of subjects just fealings and proof from my life.... and im not acussing people of being simple minded fucks im saying they are... and if ur so dumb too that u think somebody can prove anything about spirutuality and god and what not then u are as low as them too, but then again i know you are young so i cannot say anything.

I am sorry if i got mad but this kind of ingorance towards our souls and lifes just pisses me off. I can respect people who are dumb and are primitive, but people who are acually smart as hell like most of u guys.... and still try to prove something with scinece and smart anserws buddy i wish i could see u on the streets once... i lived in a war country in yugoslavia from 90 to 99. ive seen alot of people that had nothing else to do but pray and hope for better and when some of u try to dissrespect those kids of things i wouldnt just call u simple minded fucks i would rip ur fuckin spine out if i saw u, simple as that.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 17, 2011, 01:17:54 pm
Quote
and still try to prove something with scinece and smart anserws buddy i wish i could see u on the streets once...
That only reflect how stupid you are. What I write is not rhetoric of some kind, not from position of power, how you write. But from position of thinking. When you define "soul" and define "god", like bible or etc. and you could test it with science, you would get no results, something is wrong. Method of testing, science, or you hypothesis. This is not "smart asnwer", this is simple core of science. If you don't understand, you can't argue against it. You experience is nice, but you are arguing only that "you have experiences", not telling me which one. You are telling me, that you experienced those in "real life", but why is your life more real than mine?

And remember, I didn't said, that there is no god, no soul no etc. But that if we take some definition AND we can falsificate it with science, than science and faith isn't two distinct areas. So your whole point is again, invalid. Please read better. Maybe you have a lot of experiences, but if you try to insert them in false theories and so they would disprove science, thats not mistake of science, but only your, because you are insterting it in false thingies.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: kiki123 on April 17, 2011, 02:26:50 pm


i think we understood each other wrong........ i never said u havent had a real life, but u deff had a calmer life then mine. i am 100% sure of that. Second i never said science is bullshit but scinece isnt able to prove u everything, but church cant either or anything esle. There is somethings we just are not ment to know, but if u claim to know everything then my freind u are very wrong... u allways try to find an anserw to everything and u stick by it 100% even tough again it is just someones proven theory which can be proven wroong in a other 100o years. thats what i tried to say and thats why im mad because u thkkn u know everything but  u dont, neither do i neither does any scinetist or genius in this life of ours. Stop trying to prove something that u cannot prove. we can make assumptions but beng 100 % sure about anythhing is imposibble and no matter how smart u sound to me ur not.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 17, 2011, 06:09:03 pm
No. If I am trying to be scientist, I have to admit few things...

1. I have to search for the answer to everything. Thats why I go to science, to enlarge knowledge of humanity. And because I am solely interested in many kinds knowledge.
2. I can't know answer to everything. Nor I will ever know. Nothing I will know will be 100% sure, as I wrote in post there. Everything I will know would be hypothesis or more likely theory.
3. But, this is best way to learn things. This is best way to get stable knowledge, not dependent on personal experience. No one have been able to disprove it.
It is because testing of hypothesis, creating experiment, that should disprove and falsify those hypothesis. Even that many other experiments should be done. That mean, when you create experiment and get data, which disprove this theory, and that experiment is of course repeatable, I would gladly change my knowledge, I would gladly say "This theory is wrong. We have been wrong." Thats holy grail of every scientist. Do you know, why this didn't happen? Why major theories aren't falsificated so often? This isn't because scientist try to hide their prooves and laugh to everyone, who have those. This is because there wasn't repeatable experiment, that disprove major theories. And those people, not realy scientist, more pseudoscientist, only media make so big bubble from those, who have those data have faked them. From bad method, to raw data (and filtering everything to get what they want). Sadly, this happen quite often. So real science is quite stable to create stable and right knowledge.
Many those, who came with "spirits" and "god" have said something, that could be testable. Were tested (it would be realy amazing, realy, if ghost and spirits and magick and many other amazing things were realy, but they probably aren't) and were disproven. Because those who came with those hypothesis weren't realy scientist and didn't realy understand what they were talking about. Man is created to be paranoid.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Sius on April 17, 2011, 11:50:41 pm
*post*

Dude, you rock!

And I mean it. If I was a president of the universe I would award you with all internets right away. But I'm having hard times deciding whenever you are just really dedicated troll or an actual person I've imagined based on your posts. If you are the 1st option, then: "reskept bro!". If not then:
(http://mohammedjawad.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/arguing_over_internet.jpg)
+
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Believe what you want to believe. This is open discussion not some religion board where everyone has to believe in what you believe and if not then get converted. And just btw what you said about something with ripping spines out of ignorants - well after finishing reading all your posts my first reaction was, that I felt sorry for you and thought that if ignorance should be punished by spine fatality, you would be the first one spineless. But then I realized you might be just another "how does magnets work?" guy. Anyway you rock!
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Y0ssarian on April 18, 2011, 08:32:33 am
Wow everybody is insulting each other, this is like a real debate! I gather you are all european, too? :)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: JovankaB on April 18, 2011, 09:14:12 am
*cough* (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5227/crape.gif) I wonder when someone will lock this "discussion". ::)

It's funny that on both sides I see very little reason and very little loving your enemy.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Aaron Tiger on April 18, 2011, 09:30:27 am
Okay, here's my two cents.

I believe that there is NO evolution. It's an illusion created by man. God is VERY real, and you will find out the day he comes to the earth with fire and fury. Atheists will fall flat on their faces in humility.

I know God is real because He showed me. I've had a miracle done upon me, and I've seen people fall unconcious by the sheer power of Christ. Like, witnessed it. Like, I was 10 feet away from the person.

Look at the human body. Every cell works together for some purpose. Damaged skin heals. White blood cells fight viruses. EVERYTHING has a purpose. It's so perfect. Only a very powerful mind could create such a thing.

As for people who say, "If God's real, why did so many people die in blah, blah, blah." THAT is because of Satan and his deceit, and chiefly temptation. We shot ourselves in the foot, mates.

95% of Atheists haven't read the Bible. How can you prove something wrong without solid material? You can't just take wild guesses of the Bible's contents. One person said to me "I don't believe that God waved his hand and poof the world appeared." I laughed at that. If only he knew it actually doesn't say anything like that in the Bible.
If Atheists remain stubborn, they will have to learn the hard way in the end. You will be surprised. You die, and then... wait, what the heck? It isn't over yet?
God is not about as real as the tooth fairy. He is as real as the grass is green, as the sky is blue. Please, no hateful comments. This is what I know is true, do not volley hateful crap at it.
[Edit] LOL at the above post.

Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Aaron Tiger on April 18, 2011, 09:40:00 am
Basically anyone I knew in the place where I lived in the old country. People there were all religious and all not working. They thought they were too good to get the jobs that were available. I know these jobs were not going to provide them a lot of money, but still enough to live. People had ideas to run businesses of their own, but they didn't because they were too scared to dare for a chance of success or failure. They resorted to prayer, blind god/pope worship, unemployment welfare, business indevelopment phobia and a 24/7 couch-sitting routine, except when they go to church to beg god for a golden shower. Economy began to cripple, people wouldn't buy things because everything looked too expensive for them. The streets began to be dangerous, I've seen people get robbed over a dime's worth, such good christians they are they think they're too good to obey the 7th commandment.
I on the other hand managed to escape.

P.S. I'm talking about this sort of golden shower.
(http://www.sportaphile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/scrooge-mcduck-make-it-rain.jpg)
Your watersport fetishes are not to be found here.

Sorry about the double post. Ran out of room. These people aren't religious. They are using religion as an excuse. True Christians don't take advantage of God. Believing in God's existance does **not** qualify you as a Christian.


Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 18, 2011, 09:46:38 am
Aaron: you have to be realy ignorant to not accept evolution of fact. Thats something like don't accept Deer as fact.

Quote
95% of Atheists haven't read the Bible. How can you prove something wrong without solid material?
99% Christians can't understand science. Did you read scientific book about evolution? How you can prove, that evolution is wrong without solid material?
You don't have solid material. There aren't any. Your arguments about perfection of human body is laughable. Do you have eyes? Have you seen cancer (cells don't work together)? Chromosome deletions (eg. Down syndrom)? I don't have against "I want to believe, that there is something bigger than me", but I have strong arguments against people, that calims "Human body is perfect, that couldn't happen by accident." and "Evolution is ilusion...." etc. etc. That is just ignorance. Faith from misuderstanding is bad faith. I believe, that we could settle in that. God of gaps is bad god. I believe, we can settle in that too.
Title: Re: Great religious fanatics vs. fanatical atheists Debate
Post by: Mayck on April 18, 2011, 10:16:20 am
99% Christians can't understand science.
Yep, and from my personal experience 90% atheists can't understand science, either.
Where did you get that number, btw? You cannot claim that without any solid material   ;)
95% of Atheists haven't read the Bible.
and YOU TOO  ;D

It's funny that on both sides I see very little reason and very little loving your enemy.
One of the most valid arguments in whole thread, imho.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Hololasima on April 18, 2011, 10:43:07 am

I believe that there is NO evolution. It's an illusion created by man. God is VERY real, and you will find out the day he comes to the earth with fire and fury.


Dont you think that evolution is much more "real" than God ?

Of course, there "can be somewhere" God, i didnt say no. But you cant say that God is much more real, because you even dont have any proofs. I think that evolution have at least some.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Colombo on April 18, 2011, 10:54:00 am
Quote
Yep, and from my personal experience 90% atheists can't understand science, either.
Yeah, 99% can't undestand science:D but they don't have to. They just have to work for us that we research:D
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Aaron Tiger on April 18, 2011, 10:54:36 am
Dont you think that evolution is much more "real" than God ?

Of course, there "can be somewhere" God, i didnt say no. But you cant say that God is much more real, because you even dont have any proofs. I think that evolution have at least some.

I do have "proofs". I have experienced and witnessed miracles. God has spoken to both me and my friends. Is that not proof enough?
If not, here's some more:

(http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/demotivational-posters-hitler-on-a-magic-carpet.jpg)
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Hololasima on April 18, 2011, 10:59:10 am
Oh, its irony ...
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Aaron Tiger on April 18, 2011, 11:01:16 am
Not irony at all.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Slaver Snipe on April 18, 2011, 11:34:32 am
So Aaron, I'm assuming your a christian after your reference to the bible, Does that mean that Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Muslims, Confucians, Shintoists, Taoists, etc. etc. are wrong? If so what makes them wrong and you right? Although it's highly unlikely don't try to tell me they are all "right" with so many differences in them.

Also I'm curious, you talked about if there is a god why did so many people die in blah blah blah being Satan's fault, How does that work out with natural disasters? Did he deceive a hurricane over to the coast to kill people? Or was it just a couple of people got ensnared by Satan and so a hurricane came, killed them and caused massive collateral damage to innocents? Or did they all really deserve to die?
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: TommyTheGun on April 18, 2011, 11:36:55 am
Hey, as the only atheist I used to be the only one in my class who have readthe Bible. Anyway I guess my arguments and generally point of view are invalid and ot interesting enough, since I dont hate any of "the sides".
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Sius on April 18, 2011, 01:29:35 pm
Dr. Schambaugh, of the University of Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, Final Exam question for May of 1997. Dr. Schambaugh is known for asking questions such as, "why do airplanes fly?" on his final exams. His one and only final exam question in May 1997 for his Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II class was: "Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

Quote
First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.

Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:
If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then Option 2 cannot be true...Thus, hell is exothermic.

Hell - serious busyness.  8)

But to be really serious this time: As I said before. In my opinion every single religion/god existence is a man made construct and in case of Christianity its very profitable (or at least was) man made construct. But I too would like to read your answer for questions Slaver Snipe asked. Eg. what makes YOUR religion/beliefs right and everyone else's wrong? When you line up everything from Christianity, Buddhism to Scientology and Space People then what makes one right and other ones wrong? Hell we could even add up science here too because its basically a religion too. You BELIEVE in something. We all have our own truths here but hell trying to make others see that your truth is the only one right has always been best thing on internet.
Title: Re: how many fonline people believes in church
Post by: Ghosthack on April 18, 2011, 02:10:21 pm
Quote
First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.

Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:
If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then Option 2 cannot be true...Thus, hell is exothermic.
http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/hell.asp

Ok, time to close lock thread before it deteriorates into a complete flamewar.
If you want to discuss religion or politics, I suggest you try it at some other forum(s).