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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Gefest on January 31, 2010, 09:24:41 am
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Well, sorry for my bad English :)
I guess i am not genuis with this idea, but i suggest to reduce the time out in half or to delete it at all. I know, that this time out was uncluded opposite to players with many characters ('multovodi' as we call them) and overflowing 2238 by hi tech things. But it didn't solve the problem mainly. It only caused dishonest competition.
F.E. I am a GM with 10 people in my organization. No one is multovod and all of us are crafters. Each of one crafts 1 combat armor. What can crafters do in this huge time out exceapt drinkind cofe? Em... They even can't to mine some resources.
My friend is a GM with 5 people in organization. All of them have 2 alts. Each of them crafts 1 CA and +2CA from alts. In time between timeouts they can gain exp for their alts.
So, you see? We have 10 CA from 10 people opposite 15 CA from 5 and this is the simplest example. It seems like Timeouts PUSH players to have some alts. Is this correct? I don't think so. I agree that it is necessary to do something with overflowing, but may be not in this way?
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Well, sorry for my bad English :)
I guess i am not genuis with this idea, but i suggest to reduce the time out in half or to delete it at all. I know, that this time out was uncluded opposite to players with many characters ('multovodi' as we call them) and overflowing 2238 by hi tech things. But it doesn't solve the problem mainly. It only caused dishonest competition.
F.E. I am a GM with 10 people in my organization. No one is multovod and all of us are crafters. Each of one crafts 1 combat armor. What can crafters do in this huge time out exceapt drinkind cofe? Em... They even can't to mine some resources.
My friend is a GM with 5 people in organization. All of them have 2 alts. Each of them crafts 1 CA and +2CA from alts. In time between timeouts they can gain exp for their alts.
So, you see? We have 10 CA from 10 people opposite 15 CA from 5 and this is the simplest example. It seems like Timeouts PUSH players to have some alts. Is this correct? I don't think so. I agree that it is necessary to do something with overflowing, but may be not in this way?
The entire concept of overflowing is just bullshit. There are people who are going to keep with mid-high tier gear no matter how long it takes to craft it, people who some gear and stick to it and people who are just poor and can't really have it yet (who are going to be a majority anyway). As long as the gear isn't FREELY available you're not going to see CA or even leather jackets replacing bluesuits in NCR. As far as removing or reducing timeouts goes - I couldn't agree more, especially for ammo.
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Last major crafting problem is the fact that you are trapped in a nasty cycle if you want to maximize the production. You find a gathering place, gather, wait the cooldown during which you can't do much else than preparing to gather again. You run in empty encounter maps, visit cities or bases briefly and head back to wastes again. Crafting doesn't have much surprises or interesting things going on. It's repetitive and resembles work.
However the end tier product cooldown is okay feature, there has to be some maximum speed which prevents players who are too obsessed with this game from ruining the economy.
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Nice_Boat,So +1? =)
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Nice_Boat,So +1? =)
Yeah, very much so.
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+2
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Well, i find crafting being O.K. except for 5mm ammo. I suppose yeah, the crafting cooldown kills armor crafters, but as for a BG crafter, its not that burdening to me.
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Well, i find crafting being O.K.
How do you cope with the endless gathering cycle?
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just make some metal armor and go to city so some bastard shot u in like 10seconds cos he got minigun then again gather mats for another one. wasteland is cruel and i like it here ;D but crafting/gathering IS sometimes pain in a#$ for little gangs who dont have aspirations for pvp /time for all night gathering or use bots
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Yeah. And in honest player's ass too.
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Crafting timeouts are fine for simple weapons and armors. Problem is with ammunition and upgrading stuff.
While ammunition is more like gameplay issue, upgrades times are just plain stupid. What will take more time? Creating brand you weapon/armor from junk, parts and skins or adding extended magazine or extra layer of protection?
I mean c'on xp for upgrades is already really low, why those retarded cooldowns?
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true true
crafting times of upgrades should equal their effort, so they should be much lower that crafting a new piece of weapon/armor
and ammunitions crafting time should also be redefined, especially 5mm
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The problem with 5mm is that for minigunner its realy hard to get the ammo, but for the SG its quite ok, comparing to other types of ammo. If there would be change to the ammo crafting system, it has to be global. Maybe lowering cooldowns for all ammo to 1/2 would be sufficient.
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How do you cope with the endless gathering cycle?
Easy. I gather materials while doing other stuff, wether its PVP or PVE. All you need is a decent carry weight, a sledge and here you go. When i decide goin killin deathclaws in caves, i pick a sledge. When im done i come back with 5k gained xp and like 20 iron ore. Overweight doesnt matter much anyway.
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Easy. I gather materials while doing other stuff, wether its PVP or PVE. All you need is a decent carry weight, a sledge and here you go. When i decide goin killin deathclaws in caves, i pick a sledge. When im done i come back with 5k gained xp and like 20 iron ore. Overweight doesnt matter much anyway.
But do you agree that the gathering process itself isn't much of a joyride? You run to places, do simple tasks there, leave the place and wonder what to do during these 1-6 minutes.
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But do you agree that the gathering process itself isn't much of a joyride? You run to places, do simple tasks there, leave the place and wonder what to do during these 1-6 minutes.
Yes I agree, but i don`t know any gathering process that is joyfull, gathering was always nothing else than boredom :]
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Easy. I gather materials while doing other stuff, wether its PVP or PVE. All you need is a decent carry weight, a sledge and here you go. When i decide goin killin deathclaws in caves, i pick a sledge. When im done i come back with 5k gained xp and like 20 iron ore. Overweight doesnt matter much anyway.
unless of course u run into aryan on the worldmap ^^
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So? Up!
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Making gathering timeouts cumulative would work fine.
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The current system is a bit of a mish-mash of the old style and changes required for the rework. Some things don't make too much sense at the moment, but will do afterwards.
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Ahh thank god for noticing Solar. May we ask what exactly are you going to change to have it make more sense?
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Well, recipes will be rejigged, gatering timeouts will be different values to now, profession levels production speed will be made more distinct and some other things beside that too.
I think you will probably remember me talking in IRC about some of them, but thats all you're getting from me :P
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Ye there was all kind of talk in irc. Everyone knows economy is important and the numbers have to be kept in order, but The Cycle is one of the things that's being hated in crafting and gathering. The Cycle that keeps people locked in boring gather-craft gind.
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What about perks to enhance a player's crafting ability in a certain field? Like, say, 'Chemist' would reduce the cooldown, the material cost and increase the amount of chems produced per batch.
Hell, why not make perks the main basis of crafting, with NPC trainers just improving the player's knowledge?
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The cycle is what you make it, I guess. I'm like quentin, I gather as go. Though as we always say, we need more stuff "to do"
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The cycle is what you make it, I guess. I'm like quentin, I gather as go. Though as we always say, we need more stuff "to do"
Heh, so long as we don't need gunpowder to make BBs anymore, I'm optimistic.
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What about perks to enhance a player's crafting ability in a certain field? Like, say, 'Chemist' would reduce the cooldown, the material cost and increase the amount of chems produced per batch.
Hell, why not make perks the main basis of crafting, with NPC trainers just improving the player's knowledge?
We'd see even more alts. I mean so far it's possible to run fighter crafter who isn't all that awful. But if perks would be required to craft properly, it'd be the end of single chars. But if there was a way to implement crafting related perks without encouraging alts, it'd rock.
Btw profesions are basically perks.
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We'd see even more alts. I mean so far it's possible to run fighter crafter who isn't all that awful. But if perks would be required to craft properly, it'd be the end of single chars. But if there was a way to implement crafting related perks without encouraging alts, it'd rock.
I think that's because of how small the pool of useful perks are. I mean, there's only about 10 people use out of, what? 30? 40 perks total?
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I think that's because of how small the pool of useful perks are. I mean, there's only about 10 people use out of, what? 30? 40 perks total?
Let's say we've got a sniper smallgunsmith. We NEED those 5 sniping related perks to be maximum effective. The other two perks could be bonus rate of fire and awerness. Or some other perk to patch up some tradeoff that sniper might have (low carryweight). I would never trade a crafting related perk to a perk that increased my combat capabilities.
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remove crafting cooldowns its dumb as fuck..
Mined my ass off so I could make ammo to lvl with
2x .223 ohey 65 minute wait.
make your game enjoyable not fucking tedious...
now I have to make more crafting alts so I can craft faster
when you have to do that there is something wrong with the game design..
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I really think that crafting should be harder. Not more tedious, but harder. Timeouts can stay as they are, but some resources are just too easy to obtain. That's why we need such ridiculously long timeouts. If i.e. ore or minerals wouldn't just lie around every mountain and junk in every city...
Imagine: to get junk you have to go to the city ruins encounter and check barrels there (one use only, 1-10 junk), to find ore/minerals you have to search mines (often filled with nasty creatures or guarded by mobs. Then you find a pile and dig 5-20 ore/minerals ONCE (it's all there is, one use only).
I don't know if it would be faster or slower, but at definitely less boring and at least a bit more challenging than now...
I hope dev's changes are going in that direction...
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Gathering timeouts should be removed and replaced with a more active system. What bothers me the most is that you harvest, and then you just wait for it to be time to harvest again. The system should change into something where the materials are heavier, resources in encounters are harder to find, and the amount you can harvest from each location is limited to a small number. Outdoorsman could make resource encounters more frequent and carry weight would allow you to hold more resources, so the player would be able to benefit somewhat from perks/skills. So with this it takes about the same amount of time, but you're doing things the whole time like looking for resources or dropping off heavy materials.
The actual crafting cooldown should be taken out. The amount of time that would originally go under the crafting cooldown would now be split between the skills that are required to make that, which could stack to 60 minutes. This means that if your science is over 60, you receive a huge deduction from you science skill when disassembling, the same for repair and fixing weapons, and when a weapon skill is over the timer, you lose a significant chance to hit in battle.
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I really think that crafting should be harder. Not more tedious, but harder. Timeouts can stay as they are, but some resources are just too easy to obtain. That's why we need such ridiculously long timeouts. If i.e. ore or minerals wouldn't just lie around every mountain and junk in every city...
Aye, I had the same thought when I was working out the next update to the system.
It should see increased speed of production for the higher levels of items by up to 30% (and thus lowered timeouts), but gathering for such items will be in fixed maps, which can therefore be located further away from crafting centres/made dangerous due to NPC threats*/open to PvP
Hopefully this will make gathering for stuff more interesting and the wait for timeouts less frustrating, whilst also preserving the "safe" way of crafting at lower levels for those that prefer the current way it works.
*Edit: Which is kind of related to this idea too.
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Aye, I had the same thought when I was working out the next update to the system.
It should see increased speed of production for the higher levels of items by up to 30% (and thus lowered timeouts), but gathering for such items will be in fixed maps, which can therefore be located further away from crafting centres/made dangerous due to NPC threats*/open to PvP
Hopefully this will make gathering for stuff more interesting and the wait for timeouts less frustrating, whilst also preserving the "safe" way of crafting at lower levels for those that prefer the current way it works.
*Edit: Which is kind of related to this idea too.
Solar, if you ever want us players fear and fight for resources, make at least more than one or two mines on the whole map. They will be camped by PKs anyway so we should have a choice between risking to be killed or travelling half the map.
And one more thing: how comes, that a man swings his sledge once to hit 50 pounds of ore only to be tired as hell afterwards? It should be swinging 10 times at a rock to actually gain ore or minerals.
Make a passive rock critter: you kill it with 10 sledge strikes or one explosive, you loot the ore. Hard Work or Explosives skill would at least make some sense and you will be able to mine faster if you're stronger (better Melee Weapon skill)
Tell me what you think about it.
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To sum up:
make your game enjoyable not fucking tedious...
now I have to make more crafting alts so I can craft faster
when you have to do that there is something wrong with the game design..
Yeah. And I will keep making alts to craft ammo and armors and stuff without being bothered by cooldowns.
1 ammo crafter = 300 5mm AP per hour
3 ammo crafters = 900 5mm AP per hour
etc.
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Anti Alt should stop that being the case, gathering timeouts are generally less than the 10 minutes (that should be) needed to switch alts. Its more a case of that not working well, or us not being NAZI enough to ban people yet.
Solar, if you ever want us players fear and fight for resources, make at least more than one or two mines on the whole map. They will be camped by PKs anyway so we should have a choice between risking to be killed or travelling half the map.
Yes, these places need to be reasonably far from the main centres of activity and spread out enough that touring round ganking crafters sees you spend more time travelling between them than killing players.
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Anti Alt should stop that being the case, gathering timeouts are generally less than the 10 minutes (that should be) needed to switch alts. Its more a case of that not working well, or us not being NAZI enough to ban people yet.
We're talking about craft timeouts here, which are about 30-45mins for ammo, and something like several hours for hi-tier weapons/armors.
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Ah, yes, we're inbetween the two systems at the moment, Gathering time is ~ 50% of final item atm, but with the new stuff it will be back to near equal.