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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Ulrek on March 08, 2011, 08:50:30 pm

Title: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 08, 2011, 08:50:30 pm
After a few fights with the "HtH crit builds" that like to go as a bluesuit, and in away are like battlefield thieves.

I've had a thought, since they can easily pick up your gun and break it with science, while they lose nothing.

Yes, i know HtH builds need some love, but what is this really doing for PvP? making HtH builds more powerful? or making them tools of griefing and a resource drain?

The idea, is very simple, have a chance to fail and either hurt yourself, or just damage the weapon. it won't make HtH builds weaker, it'll just make trying to take something apart harder if you don't know how.

And, to those of you who say it's still very easy to break guns open for spare parts, if you're using science, you're taking the weapon apart, not just breaking it in half, you're trying but failing to get useful parts from it.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: cannotspace on March 08, 2011, 09:48:13 pm
Rather than nerf I think science needs a boost on parts that you get from disassemble

Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 08, 2011, 10:17:04 pm
Rather than nerf I think science needs a boost on parts that you get from disassemble



The point of the topic is not to nerf it, but just to make it harder to break things in the middle of PvP mainly, and make science a means of getting spare parts, and not to troll people.

But, giving science a boost could help as well, so it would be used for what it's meant for, rather than the trolling as mentioned before.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Crazy on March 08, 2011, 10:23:18 pm
The point of the topic is not to nerf it, but just to make it harder to break things in the middle of PvP mainly, and make science a means of getting spare parts, and not to troll people.

But, giving science a boost could help as well, so it would be used for what it's meant for, rather than the trolling as mentioned before.

-Ulrek-


IIRC it was already said by a dev that science need to be boosted, but that's low on todo list. Anyway, not being able do dismantle in combat mode is enough I guess. Breaking guns to prevent ennemie to get is is a viable tactic (tough I think it's often lame when it involve gauss pistol).
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: USMC1345 on March 08, 2011, 10:28:48 pm
Question?  How would the H+H character get another individuals weapon during combat, unless it was dropped?  Then, what would it matter if they dismantled the weapon during or after the battle is over, unless you assume you will always beat a H+H alt and thus be able to get your gear back?  I think that the amount of materials recovered needs to be increased, with increased skill of course.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 08, 2011, 10:59:09 pm
Question?  How would the H+H character get another individuals weapon during combat, unless it was dropped?  Then, what would it matter if they dismantled the weapon during or after the battle is over, unless you assume you will always beat a H+H alt and thus be able to get your gear back?  I think that the amount of materials recovered needs to be increased, with increased skill of course.

You haven't seen a HtH troll character. they're crit based, and they aren't there to kill people, they just drop your weapon, and than break it, that's all they do, they don't even try to win, they just want to destroy as much of your gear as they can before they die. and while breaking enemy gear is a valid tactic, attacking people just to break their stuff is only done to piss people off, and are a disgrace to HtH fighters. and it pretty much makes them suicide bombers. but with fists.

As for increasing the amount of crafting items you get from breaking stuff down, that has already been said to be on the list of things to do, this is about adding a chance to fail, with a doctor, please stop going off topic.

-Ulrek-

Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Swinglinered on March 08, 2011, 11:57:44 pm
... they just drop your weapon, and than break it, that's all they do, they don't even try to win, they just want to destroy as much of your gear as they can before they die... attacking people just to break their stuff is only done to piss people off,... and it pretty much makes them suicide bombers. but with fists.
-Ulrek-

Wonderful!




Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 09, 2011, 12:57:36 am
Wonderful!






Wonderful like using jet on other people used to be. ^,.,^

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: avv on March 09, 2011, 12:38:14 pm
Bah those hth builds are just abusing the fact that death has no penalty.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: kraskish on March 09, 2011, 01:22:18 pm
I think everything should have 5% fail chance and increase with lower science skill. So a grunt with 20 science would fail quite often. Support
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: solid snake on March 09, 2011, 02:31:24 pm
Bah those hth builds are just abusing the fact that death has no penalty.

funny fact: the only thing lasers and miniguns can kill are bluesuits. bluesuits tend to troll the shit out of this game in general.
anyhow, this is just like stealing. not having to risk anything but a cool down destroys game play for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 10, 2011, 03:31:19 am
funny fact: the only thing lasers and miniguns can kill are bluesuits. bluesuits tend to troll the shit out of this game in general.
anyhow, this is just like stealing. not having to risk anything but a cool down destroys game play for obvious reasons.

Stealing is one thing, stealing you can protect yourself from, but this is more like suicide bombing, and it takes place in PvP, not just in NCR, or in a guarded town.

Stealing in a guarded town is one thing, but having someone walk up to you, break your arm, take your gun away from you, than break it right infront of you is a little bit too much, i'd at least like to see people have to get away after stealing your stuff, not just break it in front of you.

Thieves are just trying to make a living to, but these guys are just trolls. all they're doing is trolling, not adding to game play, so the point is to make trolling a little bit harder, by giving science limits for low skill use, just like repair, and FA, and doc, you cant use those well at low skill, how can you take a minigun apart with your bare hands with no training? 10 STR? they don't have that... their crit builds.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: cannotspace on March 10, 2011, 04:05:42 am
another "i got killed / stolen from, NERF NERF NERF"
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 10, 2011, 05:42:43 am
another "i got killed / stolen from, NERF NERF NERF"

Rather than go "trolololol", why don't you tell me why adding a chance to fail to science like the ones that exist for all the other skills is a bad idea?

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Imprezobus on March 10, 2011, 07:27:16 am
because you already cannot science in fight?

poor spartans, noone likes the first FOnline easter egg encounter :(
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 10, 2011, 07:52:44 am
because you already cannot science in fight?

poor spartans, noone likes the first FOnline easter egg encounter :(

You can science stuff in the middle of a TC battle, you just don't shoot or get shot at for 10 seconds, which is easy if you have a friend to draw fire for those 10 seconds, and you can break anything you want.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: cannotspace on March 10, 2011, 08:01:32 pm
You can science stuff in the middle of a TC battle, you just don't shoot or get shot at for 10 seconds, which is easy if you have a friend to draw fire for those 10 seconds, and you can break anything you want.

-Ulrek-

So if it's possible during TC battle it just confirms what you already said: It's a tactic
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 11, 2011, 09:07:42 pm
So if it's possible during TC battle it just confirms what you already said: It's a tactic

Using mutants in TC battles was a tactic to, they got rid of that since it was overly annoying and cheap.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ganado on March 11, 2011, 09:28:14 pm
I would say no using Science to dismantle in a town if that town is currently under TC timer, or within 15 minutes after TC timer ended.

But the actual Science dismantling skill should be increased to provide HQ materials, not make it an even more worthless feature by having chance to fail. PS: Chance to fail is already in it; sometimes you don't get anything from dismantling.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ulrek on March 12, 2011, 06:29:56 pm
I would say no using Science to dismantle in a town if that town is currently under TC timer, or within 15 minutes after TC timer ended.

But the actual Science dismantling skill should be increased to provide HQ materials, not make it an even more worthless feature by having chance to fail. PS: Chance to fail is already in it; sometimes you don't get anything from dismantling.

I still want to know how adding a chance for the weapon to not turn to dust with low skill would make it useless, as it is if you have 100 skill, you have a chance to get something. but if you have 30 or so skill, than just damaging the weapon is reasonable, i'm for adding a high end to it, so that you can get HQ stuff, but at the same time, it shouldn't be a weapon, and the TC timer thing won't work, most battles happen before or after the timer starts/stops.

I still wonder though, why a 80% chance to just damage the weapon rather than fully break it if you have 20% science makes it useless? if you want to use the skill, add skill points.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Wieprz on March 12, 2011, 08:20:45 pm
How it would look? Fail on Making Minigun info parts? what the hell...did you even failed my Making an Lego Block into parts?

By : Wieprz
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Badger on March 12, 2011, 08:24:42 pm
Could you not make it so weapons had to be broken down at a workbench? Also, how the hell do you strip a weapon and get nothing? The absolutely minimum you could get is junk, because, hey, you bashed up the gun so hard to disassemble it you ended up with nothing but chunks of metal.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Johnnybravo on March 12, 2011, 09:19:58 pm
Quote
Could you not make it so weapons had to be broken down at a workbench?
I'd say we've got a winner here, but...
That way you can't dismantle weapons you couldn't carry with you after encounters where you loot.
Also if you're supposed to get HQ resources from it, I hope it'd be based not only on crafting cost, but also on current break count.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: avv on March 12, 2011, 10:21:57 pm
Could you not make it so weapons had to be broken down at a workbench? Also, how the hell do you strip a weapon and get nothing? The absolutely minimum you could get is junk, because, hey, you bashed up the gun so hard to disassemble it you ended up with nothing but chunks of metal.

Makes sense. But it depends what sort of breaking we're talking here. Almost all guns can be disassembled without tools but what remains are parts that can still collected to make a gun. Want to break a gun beyond repair? You really need a workbench with metal working tools for that.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Solar on March 12, 2011, 10:34:22 pm
I see nothing wrong with making Dismantling require a workbench.
Title: Re: A chance to fail when using science.
Post by: Ganado on March 12, 2011, 11:43:04 pm
Yep, Badger's idea for this sounds the best (as usual).