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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: JovankaB on March 04, 2011, 11:11:22 am

Title: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: JovankaB on March 04, 2011, 11:11:22 am
Current situation is:
Tier 0 - Shotgun
Tier 1 - Sawed-Off
Tier 2 - Combat Shotgun
Tier 3 - CAWS and Pancor

My proposition is to change it to:
Tier 0 - Shotgun and Sawed-Off
Tier 1 - Combat Shotgun
Tier 2 - CAWS
Tier 3 - Pancor

It doesn't make sense to have CAWS and Pancor in the same tier in my opinion, because CAWS is just a weaker Pancor so noone crafts it anyway. On the other hand Sawed-off is not really stronger than Shotgun - it's different (you trade less AP for shorter range) so it makes more sense to have both in the same tier. Also sawing off a barrel shouldn't requite a profession IMO. It's a simple modification of the same weapon that gives you slightly different properties. One more thing, shotguns are not very popular, especially the "middle tier" and CAWS so it would help popularize them a little bit.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Surf on March 04, 2011, 11:16:11 am
Agreed. Also, some little buff or something which makes Shotguns more interesting (yeah I know we already have threads for that) would be good. Right now,not many people use them, which is a shame really.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: runboy93 on March 04, 2011, 11:18:48 am
I'm totally agree with this suggestion.

Sawed-off belongs to tier 0 weapon, because its almost same than normal shotgun (less AP to shoot and less range)
And sometimes i just bought small guns profession 1, because i wanted to make sawed-off shotguns for my one hander critical build.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Izual on March 04, 2011, 11:43:50 am
Makes sense. Also add knockback effect to them.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Andr3aZ on March 04, 2011, 12:51:46 pm
Also add knockback effect to them.
Double edged sword as enemys could get knocked out of range, so shotgunner vs pistoleer would be butthurt.

+1 for CAWS on Tier2
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Solar on March 04, 2011, 01:13:01 pm
It will be Shotgun, Combat Shotgun and Sawed Off on Lower Tier, Jackhammer and CAWs on Higher Tier, requiring blueprints.

I might add knockback onto single shot for shotguns, if only to make Izual stop suggesting it! :P
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Badger on March 04, 2011, 01:23:09 pm
I agree with everything here!

The drawbacks/advantages of the sawnoff and the regular shotgun are great. Very immediate and obvious weaknesses that encourage very different tactics.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: avv on March 04, 2011, 01:42:51 pm
I might add knockback onto single shot for shotguns, if only to make Izual stop suggesting it! :P

It may sound cool, but honestly it would be awful. A fast shotting shotgunner could keep another player downed forever. In addition encounters that have lots of shotguns might become extremely dangerous, especially for low levels. Currently headshot spamming turbosniper is rather uncomfortable foe to face, let alone turboshotgunner who knocks enemy down with every shot.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Kilgore on March 04, 2011, 02:01:35 pm
Knockback doesn't equal knockdown.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Slaver Snipe on March 04, 2011, 02:19:08 pm
I would disagree with knockback, shotguns have terrible range and its not worth wasting the ap recharge time to get close to an enemy while he loses none of his ap.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Haraldx on March 04, 2011, 03:34:53 pm
Agree with everything here!
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Izual on March 04, 2011, 08:06:12 pm
I would disagree with knockback, shotguns have terrible range and its not worth wasting the ap recharge time to get close to an enemy while he loses none of his ap.

Knockback can be set to not push away the enemy. But it'd be better with this option. Running 1-2-3 hex to get in range of your enemy (only when you shoot at max range, still) only takes maximum one second, and during this time your opponent doesn't have AP.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Slaver Snipe on March 04, 2011, 08:22:08 pm
Very well might work if the range is altered but with the current knockback by the time you got back to him to shoot him he would be regening his ap just like you, no advantage there unless its a teamfight thing and i think we all know shotguns wont be used in any real pvp.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: vedaras on March 04, 2011, 09:08:23 pm
no no no, you guys get it wrong. Its no shotguns in f2 with beautiful range, long story short, you will knock your target out of your range so you could hardly tell if this is an advantage or disadvantage, anyway shotguns do need some buff, why not knockdown? Similar to rocket launcher, or frag grenade. FTW that :>
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Handyman on March 05, 2011, 07:50:25 pm
 ;D Handyman aproves !
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Eternauta on March 05, 2011, 09:10:43 pm
I agree with the OP and with the idea of buffing Shotgun, but I am not sure if knockback would be a good feature (the situation described by avv does not sound like an exaggeration).

If knockback is a small change, maybe it could be implemented with an update, tested, and removed if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: KruskDaMangled on March 05, 2011, 11:41:01 pm
I agree with the OP and with the idea of buffing Shotgun, but I am not sure if knockback would be a good feature (the situation described by avv does not sound like an exaggeration).

If knockback is a small change, maybe it could be implemented with an update, tested, and removed if it doesn't work.

I agree that we need to test. Although, perusing the wiki, if it's a trait associated with a weapon, not a damage type, (like slegehammers, etc) it only knocks your ass down more on a crit. So a build that specifically focused on getting lots of shots would not be the build that got mad crits like a crit sniper build did. Sure, a Crit Sniper build could use it, but why? You sacrifice so much range you just got in the bracket where pretty much everything mauls you. And anyway, your fast shot character can't actually AIM the gun, which cuts down dramatically on your chances to get reliable crits. the best you could get with fast shot would be a 25% chance, which really, isn't bad, but then, you wouldn't be rolling the added knockdown result every time either. On balance, the classic crit sniper build is probably going to be gimping you a lot more, by messing up your legs, and shooting you in the eye. And there are plans to mitigate crits being so obnoxious too.

So, on balance, I think we should test it, but I think it would be more a balancing thing.  You could get a bit more out of shotguns, but nothing that would make everyone flock to them.
Title: Re: Crafing shotguns - move Sawed-Off, Combat Shotgun and H&K CAWS one tier lower
Post by: Swinglinered on March 06, 2011, 01:01:21 am
Slug ammo (http://science.howstuffworks.com/shotgun10.htm).

Better range.
Also:
Sandbag slug for better knockdown, regular slug for damage, AP sabot slug for penetration.
EMP slugs?

Also:
Flechette cartridge for better range and penetration. (http://science.howstuffworks.com/shotgun11.htm)

If we get blueprints... (http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=shotgun.htm&url=http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=981503)