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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Roachor on January 29, 2010, 09:25:50 pm
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There is no reason to drag out the leveling process during a beta, all it does in hinder testing.
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I have to agree at the moment, you get hardly any exp at all from PvE and crafting gives way more. Not everyone wants to be a crafter just to get to level 21.
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*caugh caugh* stealing *caugh caugh*
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Yeah.. to be good thief you need 200+ steal. So... what else you can do? Any gun on 150%? Maybe outdoor on 100.. or first aid, 60?
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if devs consider removing diminishing xp, reset the kill history to 0 for everything please ^^ i started killing centaurs at level 3 and now i am level 15 and each centaur and nasty floater give me about 200 xp (normal centaurs give 195)
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w8 w8 so the exp you get per kill is not based on your lv but the amount of mobs of that kind you have actually killed ?
Oo
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Yeah, remove that xp thing so we can get lvl 21 in a two days (im serious here).
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w8 w8 so the exp you get per kill is not based on your lv but the amount of mobs of that kind you have actually killed ?
Oo
Yeah
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diminishing exp is very good idea, don`t try to change it!
I start playing not long ago and it take me like 5 days to max level up PvP char and crafter even less
2 days to max lev?? you gotta be kidding me
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diminishing exp is very good idea, don`t try to change it!
I start playing not long ago and it take me like 5 days to max level up PvP char and crafter even less
2 days to max lev?? you gotta be kidding me
With old xp system it was few hours... we don't need to disable current xp dropping, just make more 'critter groups', like rats, mole rats, pigrats instead of one 'rats'. Current 'kills' table don't need to be changed, counter can be invisible to player.
Maybe add multiplier based on mobs level?
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Look this isn't the end game experience, xp can be balanced later. This is just a terrible system in place to make grinding painfully boring. One centaur fight is no different for the next, you don't gain anything by doing it more often.
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Kill a Broken Hills caravan = 200 exp < the amount of ammo and weapon deterioration used is worth more than the exp.
Craft a batch of Rockets with a high cooldown = 500 exp.
Farm stealing and get loads of exp bonuses every 10 seconds = 500 exp.
Does this look right to you people?
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one could ask why crafting dont have diminishing XP...
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one could ask why crafting dont have diminishing XP...
I just took a look at crafting today, I'm glad I avoided it since the wipe. An hour cooldown for metal mk1? jesus.
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better yet, 200 minutes for a minugun yeaaaa thats what im talking about
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no thats nothing .. assult rifle is something 2.5h CD ..and now you wanna add extended magazine - wooping another 2h CD while giving something like 400 exp (the first craft is like 3k exp)
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Haha, M60 owns everything. That thing gives 5800 XP and has a cooldown of atleast 3 hours if im right.
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285 mins ;]
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Kill a Broken Hills caravan = 200 exp < the amount of ammo and weapon deterioration used is worth more than the exp.
Craft a batch of Rockets with a high cooldown = 500 exp.
Farm stealing and get loads of exp bonuses every 10 seconds = 500 exp.
Does this look right to you people?
soldiers should have very difficult time to level up because they can kill and rob other characters or NPC to gain exp and items, while crafters have to spend a lot of time while gathering and crafting and it`s their only way to earn some money and exp, they are exposed to loose everything they gather in few seconds
current gather/craft system IMO is very good, maybe a little tweaking is needed but only a tiny one
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imo its easier to level by crafting the fighting its something like - spend hour on geathering materials , craft something woth 10k in cash get 5k exp for it , have 5h cd on crafting go offline .... i dont know where is the risk of losing your geatherables - unless you sue bot to geather materials for hours in one spot ...
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There is no reason to drag out the leveling process during a beta, all it does in hinder testing.
The reason seems clear : testing the definitive game design, i think this Xp system is good, a lvl 21 character is hard to do, i just think about incrasing lvl cap to 30 to have a better life time for a character (and lvl 30 characters will be hudge ^^)
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soldiers should have very difficult time to level up because they can kill and rob other characters or NPC to gain exp and items
That's bullshit.
Look:
Crafters can craft to gain exp and items (items which have 0% deterioration).
Thieves can steal to gain exp and items.
It is unfair on fighters if 4 humans in Metal Armor give only 200 exp in total.
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I have killed more than 3k creatures, the exp from them was not enough to get me to level 21. I had to damage myself on cows and such and then use first aid since it is pretty much the only real way a fighter can level up. This diminishing exp system is, in my opinion, completely worthless. (hey look, crafters who have never played a fighter disagreees, who would have guessed)
edit: I also think the crafting cooldown is insane
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i belive the reason behind so long cooldown is to not let single crafter support whole factions with weapons /ammo etc...
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As wipe said, more critter groups could be good, but the main issue is setting appropriate base xp for each critter type. Some of the xp values are simply stupid.
As for crafting, it is not slow at all, so whinging about timeouts is pointless.
xp gain, this is a large part of the reason for switching to final item countdowns. It fixes the amount of xp able to be gained by one char, so there is no more of gangs pumping one members xp by all gathering for him.
Also, a beta test is a perfect opportunity to experiment around with things such as rate of xp gain, crafting speed and similar ... making everything really fast to "help testing" is a completely false arguement
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That's bullshit.
Look:
Crafters can craft to gain exp and items (items which have 0% deterioration).
Thieves can steal to gain exp and items.
It is unfair on fighters if 4 humans in Metal Armor give only 200 exp in total.
Yes ok soldiers have a hard time leveling, but i don`t want to see every one have a PvP char, i wan`t it to be elite hardcore players only
and 5 days for leveling BG which can take a big guns weapon in his hands on 15 lev is not that bad at all
so don`t whine, try harder
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i wan`t it to be elite hardcore players only
So you're saying that there should only be Level 21 Big Gunners who play 24/7 and everyone else has to suffer? Good idea!
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So you're saying that there should only be Level 21 Big Gunners who play 24/7 and everyone else has to suffer? Good idea!
No i say that there is another ways for soldier to level up, not only grind centaurs all day long, and idea of ginding centaurs form beginning to 21 lev is just scaring the crap out of me
i`m not a kind of 24/7 player and it was not hard for me to figure out some other ways of leveling
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can anyone clarify how does the diminishing work ?
in kills you only major groups are counted like : rats geckos , man , ghouls etc...
does it mean that if i killed alot silver geckos exp for silver / fire ones will be reduced ?
is there any way to coutner the diminishing ? like if i got huge panalty on geckos and istart killing soemthing else after some time the penalty on geckos will drop ?
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can anyone clarify how does the diminishing work ?
in kills you only major groups are counted like : rats geckos , man , ghouls etc...
does it mean that if i killed alot silver geckos exp for silver / fire ones will be reduced ?
is there any way to coutner the diminishing ? like if i got huge panalty on geckos and istart killing soemthing else after some time the penalty on geckos will drop ?
I'm not positive but i think you get x amount of kills from a group like scorpions, deathclaws, men, etc. and after killing a few they give less and less p every time. It never increases again so once you've farmed a mob too much it gives crap xp. There's few things more aggravating then killing something big like a deathclaw and only getting a few hundred xp. The critters don't get that much easier at high levels because damage is based on weapons and perks, noting else. As for this being a game design test, if it is it fails because the game design is crap. There's nothing do do so the plan was make what little there is to do tedious and boring to drag out gameplay. I have like 30 characters since the wipe and none of them have gotten past 16 because at that point its just grind 225 nasty floaters and that takes forever.
And yes crafting does take way too long. I'm not sure who thinks waiting for hours to get resources that can be lost in a second is good gameplay design but it's not. Even stupid shit like ammo takes forever. Flamer fuel has a 15 minute cooldown for 20 rounds, thats like 1-2 encounters max per cooldown. Or I make a metal mk 1 and then have to wait an hour to upgrade it to mk 2 so i can actually use it. And if I die and lose it its another 2+ hours to get a new one. It's retarded.
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it`s a wasteland it`s not for kids, it`s supposed to be hard and challenging, that`s why i like it so much
remember the words:
WARNING: This game may not be suitable for young players. You may die in this game and there is no save function! :D
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Low xp has no effect on the difficulty, just on time. There's nothing "hardcore" about being bored to death.
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it`s a wasteland it`s not for kids, it`s supposed to be hard and challenging, that`s why i like it so much
remember the words:
WARNING: This game may not be suitable for young players. You may die in this game and there is no save function! :D
i think you exposed yoruself to too much radiation ...
Now it makes no sense to be able to level by crafting easier then killing. I can uderstand that devs wanna panalty those that make pure fighters but its just too much in my eyes. Either with time passed , different mobs killed or some quests done or smth the penalty should be removed - maybe not removed totaly but reduced to point where you dont think its waste of bullets to kill the creeps...
EDIT: + its realy stupid that for killing somethign shitty as silver gecko you get yoruself reduced exp for killing fire gecko ...
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Is there and xp increase for killing critters whom you haven't killed in hundreds? I mean 100xp for stupid radsciorpion and 160xp for brahmin normal for new players?
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Is there and xp increase for killing critters whom you haven't killed in hundreds? I mean 100xp for stupid radsciorpion and 160xp for brahmin normal for new players?
no
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kill first centaur - 900 xp, kill 2nd centaur -1000 xp, 3rd centaur - 1200 xp
thats what im talking about yeeeea
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It's true that slow exping is a obstacle in front of high level character testing. Especially because Roachor is interested in the actual testing, unlike some selfish fagots who just want to level themselves an army of alts for personal purposes.
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As for crafting, it is not slow at all, so whinging about timeouts is pointless.
The exp rate (as in exp per time spent, not exp per unit crafted) may be good, but when it comes to timeouts and a few kinds of ammo it's painfully slow. It takes 70 minutes to craft 2 and a half Avenger bursts. Get it? 70 minutes + gathering to fire 2 shots that aren't even sure to take the target down. If that's normal or god forbid fast, I don't really want to know what's slow for you... 2 days per a single metal part? You really should think about waaaay smaller timeouts/less exp for some ammo types (as weapons and armors are more less acceptable) if you want to have a game playable without using alts. Because honestly, right now FOnline is more like having an additional job and a bit of fun as a bonus than like a computer game that's supposed to be enjoyed.
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The exp rate (as in exp per time spent, not exp per unit crafted) may be good, but when it comes to timeouts and a few kinds of ammo it's painfully slow. It takes 70 minutes to craft 2 and a half Avenger bursts. Get it? 70 minutes + gathering to fire 2 shots that aren't even sure to take the target down. If that's normal or god forbid fast, I don't really want to know what's slow for you... 2 days per a single metal part? You really should think about waaaay smaller timeouts/less exp for some ammo types (as weapons and armors are more less acceptable) if you want to have a game playable without using alts. Because honestly, right now FOnline is more like having an additional job and a bit of fun as a bonus than like a computer game that's supposed to be enjoyed.
what you actually talk about is penalty for using big guns
and you got some wrogn info as far as i know avenger uses 40 bullets in burst thats 2.5 per 100 bullets
The cooldown on JHP is around 20 mins and for AP is 25 - so in said 70 mins you can get 300 ammos thats 7.5 bursts ;p
now a SG user get 5 times more bursts from his assult rifle (same ammo ) or alot of single shots - but he doesnt have the firepower ...
be happy that they limit you in ammo not furhter nerfing big guns ..
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2.5 h avenger minigun penalty for big gun? 2h for a sniper rifle penalty for smallgun also?
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what you actually talk about is penalty for using big guns
and you got some wrogn info as far as i know avenger uses 40 bullets in burst thats 2.5 per 100 bullets
The cooldown on JHP is around 20 mins and for AP is 25 - so in said 70 mins you can get 300 ammos thats 7.5 bursts ;p
Oh, so it's 50 minutes for 5 seconds of fire. Thanks a lot, that made me see it in a different light.
now a SG user get 5 times more bursts from his assult rifle (same ammo ) or alot of single shots - but he doesnt have the firepower ...
Yeah, like he can't kill me with a critical to the eye or knock me down and slowly finish me off for 10 times less ammo in a small-scale scenario. Oh, and there's stuff like plasma grenades and bazookas that takes about five times less crafting time to deal comparable damage (cause yeah, a bazooka is comparable with best bursters in mid distance, is better at long distance and nades outclass everything else on low distance; you can shoot 10 times per a crafting unit and, in case of the nades, you don't even need a friggin' weapon).
be happy that they limit you in ammo not furhter nerfing big guns ..
Oh, but they did nerf big guns allright - they're shit compared to what they were before the wipe. And why the hell should I be happy? The ideas they implemented are breaking the game in terms of both balance and playability.
Seriously, next time somebody says something along the lines of "be happy that it takes 50 minutes instead of 50 hours to craft less than a single magazine of ammo for your gun and that it shoots more or less real bullets instead of paintballs" I'm going to doubt the collective intelect of a large part of the community here.
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Nice_Boat
ever heard of so said sniper nerf ? it was only big guns that got nerfed ? ...
now more things nades like you call them - maybe you can throw alot of them but their damage is quite pathetic (frag one ) less then half of RL one.
And the other granade - is plasma ..and plasma is good as long there is no tesla armor... + nades got as awsome range as 16 hex .. thats qutie close to the minigus barrel...
if you think snipers life is so easy go for it ...
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I find since the last wipe they've implemented a bunch of small good changes and a few huge gamebreakingly terrible ones, ie diminishing xp, crafting times, not fixing TB which should have been done months ago. The problem lies in the game itself, fonline is just a bastardization of fallout 2 and that wasn't designed for any of this. The combat system needs total reworking if we ever want any kind of strategy. There aren't enough worthwhile perks, the level cap is too low, your skills don't really improve much as you level, people should have more health. There is no end game, just a tedious grind for nothing. What is the point of spending 3 hours crafting something if you lose it in a second? Are you going to go collect the resources and craft a new one so you can kill some shit for almost no xp 4 hours later? And if so how many times are you willing to repeat this before you start playing unarmed or stop playing all together. If people didn't lose their gear every time they died and you got xp or rep for pvp then maybe there would be a point to it but as it is its just griefing. Even the organized pvp fights end up one sided because every fight is just "you die or I die but either way its going to last 2 seconds". It's not like pvp in this game requires any skill whatsoever, congratulations you clicked on someone and won a dice roll. There isn't even any skill to making a character because of how limited your choices are. You either have a pvp build almost identical to everyone elses or you have a crafter whose sole purpose is to equip other players while you sit at a bench staring at cooldowns. You don't know if the person who popped into your encounter is hostile or not so you either shoot first or risk having him kill you for nothing. Hell the fing russians don't even kill or loot you, they knock you out and leave letting you lie there for 10 minutes or whoever long it takes the game to bring you to the world map.
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Nice_Boat
ever heard of so said sniper nerf ? it was only big guns that got nerfed ? ...
You're quite wrong. It went on like this:
- sneak too powerful, people whining -> nerfed
- sniper rifles too powerful, people whining (oh, I wonder why now of all times?) -> nerfed
- big guns too powerful, people whining (oh, I wonder why now of all times?) -> nerfed
... the only question I have is what's coming next. And when is the spear nerf coming. There is a valid reason why Fallout Tactics didn't really change much when it comes to Fallout 2 combat - and that reason was that the game worked, which is not really the case right now. Even until the sniper nerf it used to have a nice "you're seen, you're quite dead" balance, right now it's just tedious with most weapons and the damage output got real friggin' different not only between weapons of the same class, but also between classes - which is REALLY bad and I think I don't have to explain why.
now more things nades like you call them - maybe you can throw alot of them but their damage is quite pathetic (frag one ) less then half of RL one.
And the other granade - is plasma ..and plasma is good as long there is no tesla armor... + nades got as awsome range as 16 hex .. thats qutie close to the minigus barrel...
Not a single build can withstand 4 plasma grenades without an extraordinary stroke of luck - and you're not going to get hit by any less. And minigun? You mean the one that takes 50 minutes to craft 3 bursts that's going to just scratch the paint on your CA, or the one that takes 50 minutes to craft 2 bursts and unlike the plasma nades doesn't guarantee a kill at 15 hexes, especially if the target is on psycho?
if you think snipers life is so easy go for it ...
Oh but I did go for energy sniper twice. Played it in all rounds of Ares tournament and NA vs DA event, died once - I think that if I say I'm experienced with that build I wouldn't exaggerate.
I find since the last wipe they've implemented a bunch of small good changes and a few huge gamebreakingly terrible ones, ie diminishing xp, crafting times, not fixing TB which should have been done months ago. The problem lies in the game itself, fonline is just a bastardization of fallout 2 and that wasn't designed for any of this. The combat system needs total reworking if we ever want any kind of strategy.
Nah, the combat system was good and works (see Fallout Tactics for refference), it just doesn't need any tinkering of the sort that's been done. As far as the newly implemented stuff I tend to agree - the new economy, xp and timeouts are just a wrong turn. They should just revert to pre-wipe leaving current town control and crafting in (with smaller timeouts for ammo and maybe gathering) and have shops autorestock on nice resources - and we'd have a pretty neatly working game with smooth gameplay experience.
Even the organized pvp fights end up one sided because every fight is just "you die or I die but either way its going to last 2 seconds". It's not like pvp in this game requires any skill whatsoever, congratulations you clicked on someone and won a dice roll. There isn't even any skill to making a character because of how limited your choices are.
Whoah, hold your horses there buddy - no skill whatsoever? Than how come same players generally dominate each fight they take part in unless they're vastly outnumbered or plain out of luck? And making a character ain't that bad - there are innovations surfacing from time to time after all.
You don't know if the person who popped into your encounter is hostile or not so you either shoot first or risk having him kill you for nothing. Hell the fing russians don't even kill or loot you, they knock you out and leave letting you lie there for 10 minutes or whoever long it takes the game to bring you to the world map.
Well I like the tension that comes with the fact that anyone could be hostile. When it comes to the knockout thingie - yeah, there should be a command for suicide.
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Not a single build can withstand 4 plasma grenades without an extraordinary stroke of luck - and you're not going to get hit by any less. And minigun? You mean the one that takes 50 minutes to craft 3 bursts that's going to just scratch the paint on your CA, or the one that takes 50 minutes to craft 2 bursts and unlike the plasma nades doesn't guarantee a kill at 15 hexes, especially if the target is on psycho?
40-90 dam on plasma granade - > its 8 to 18 when hiting on tesla ...wtf ?you ahve less then 80 hp ? ><
but then tesla doesnt protect you well agaisnt minigunning ... a price to pay aint that ?
now second thing is 50 mins = 200 AP bullets = 5 bursts ... dont make up numbers when i already cleared that out ...
and psycho somewhat means he is melee or smth and the fella will have hard time surviving two point blank minigun rounds.
@HTH - i think i heard some perks for it are bugged or smth - does HTH work properly here ?
as for Fallout Tactics - i belive the mechanic was qutie different - first i rememebr you could crouch or lay down , then IN RT moving costed AP i belive , there was crit modifiers on weapons i think , some weapons were tweaked... and there were deathclaws as playable <3
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40-90 dam on plasma granade - > its 8 to 18 when hiting on tesla ...wtf ?you ahve less then 80 hp ? ><
but then tesla doesnt protect you well agaisnt minigunning ... a price to pay aint that ?
So it's either get screwed over by a plasma grenade or get screwed over by everything else. Doesn't change all that much in practical terms now, does it?
now second thing is 50 mins = 200 AP bullets = 5 bursts ... dont make up numbers when i already cleared that out ...
I stand corrected (but no, it's only 4 full bursts), but still 50 mins = 20 rockets = 20 attacks. 50 mins = 20 plasnades = 20 attacks. And we're talking more or less equal level lethality here. Even if you had 20 bursts for 50 minutes of crafting the Minigun would chew through more ammo due to higher rate of fire - and then it'd make sense as you'd have to choose between lower damage per minute, ammo conservation and knockdown and higher damage per minute, high ammo consumption and no knockdown.
and psycho somewhat means he is melee or smth and the fella will have hard time surviving two point blank minigun rounds.
Psycho + plasmanades + 2x cigarettes = you're a screwed little minigunner, aren't you?
as for Fallout Tactics - i belive the mechanic was qutie different - first i rememebr you could crouch or lay down , then IN RT moving costed AP i belive , there was crit modifiers on weapons i think , some weapons were tweaked... and there were deathclaws as playable <3
It doesn't matter as long as the general feel and gameplay mechanism was exactly the same: you're spotted, you die or get grievously wounded, you don't regenerate AP while you run, you sneak till you fire, you can heal using FA. Crouching and laying down just meant you could pop from behind cover vertically aside from the horizontal stuff you have in FOnline. The only difference was that in Tactics you could force fire with some weapons, ie. throw the nades through the window to get some splash damage or fire a rocket into a trench. Before the nerf FOnline played very much like Tactics with one character instead of two and with the "autoaim" thingie turned off.
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So it's either get screwed over by a plasma grenade or get screwed over by everything else. Doesn't change all that much in practical terms now, does it?
it does coz either its 1v1 and you can pick best gear vs target or its group fight and its another story ...
(but no, it's only 4 full bursts)
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Avenger_Minigun 40 in burst 200/40 = 5 ... whatever - like it or not big guns offer the most punishment atm.
Psycho + plasmanades + 2x cigarettes = you're a screwed little minigunner, aren't you?
so ou complain abotu ammo consumption yet you assume someone will eat a 10k worth of consumables to be competitive ?
@Tactics - imo tactics for me didnt hold the coolness of F2 world ..
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I completely agree. Remove diminishing experience please.
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Nah, the combat system was good and works (see Fallout Tactics for refference), it just doesn't need any tinkering of the sort that's been done. As far as the newly implemented stuff I tend to agree - the new economy, xp and timeouts are just a wrong turn. They should just revert to pre-wipe leaving current town control and crafting in (with smaller timeouts for ammo and maybe gathering) and have shops autorestock on nice resources - and we'd have a pretty neatly working game with smooth gameplay experience.
Yeah the combat system would work better if it WAS the tactics combat system but it isn't. All they took was the real time function, if you've ever played tactics you'd know that the damage over all was way lower and everything had more HP. We don't have an auto attack function, the line of sight system is less useful as F2 wasn't designed to take cover, just stand in the open and blast away. They didn't even have the same weapons or stats and the maps were huge in comparison. You can't just take one function from a game and claim the combat is the same, it's not. Also AP mattered in tactics because of it's steady increase in RT, if you had a 2 ap pun ch vs a guy with a 6 ap gun you could hit him 3 times for every shot. But with the mismatched ap gains and the fact you only gain full ap when not doing an action (such as swinging a punch) you have to stand there for 3 seconds not attacking to get your full ap regen.