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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Deagonx on February 20, 2011, 11:15:27 pm
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You may or may not have been a victim of theft, where someone will pickpocket items and cash right from your inventory. Especially when you are trying to trade, when you are trading you will not see the character animation grabbing your items. Only the dissapearance of them from the trade menu, and even then it is difficult to get out without losing more items.
Here is my proposal.
When looking in your inventory, and when trading, you cannot be stolen from. Why? Its simple, if you are doing those things wouldn't you be paying a very large amount of attention to your items? If I was looking through my items and I saw a hand reach out and grab one it would be pretty easy to realize there was theft going on.
Regards, Deagonx.
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"I've been stolen from, so nerf stealing." It's a common argument.
You have to posistion your guy so you can see him when trading. Be on the left side of your screen and drag your barter window to the right side. Or whatever works for you.
Also, you can download semi-transparent interface mods, so you can see through them.
The only thing that is extra when you're trading and avoiding thieves is you have to press ESC before running away.
Getting rid of pressing ESC and making so you can just click somewhere and your dude would move would be ok.
But stealing has been nerfed enough as it is.
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Well, that wasn't particularly the argument I was making.
I mean, realistically, if you are trading with a shopkeep to sell some stuff, you will be paying more attention to your items.
Its not 'nerfing' it, its just improving on the abusable system.
I just don't like the idea that PKing and theft are the only way to drag yourself from the bottom of the food chain
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The problem with stealing is the risk vs. the reward. Levelling up a stealing alt is a pain in the ass, but once you have, you run around as a bluesuit and have nothing to lose.
My solution:
Thieves can only see items of similar or less value to their own inventories on their victims.
For example, if a thief is carrying nothing, he can't see anything on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $250 worth of gear/money on him, he can see items worth $250 and below on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $1000 worth of gear/money, he can see items worth $1000 and below. Etc.
A system where you can get items for free from other players without risking anything yourself makes no sense. So, there should be something for the victim to gain as well as the thief to lose. Ideally if the thief dies, his gear would automatically go to the victim. But that would require some kind of guard based magic.
But I really think PvP stealing should be disabled. I don't see how it improves the game at all.
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Furthermore, if caught stealing from another player. I think guards should attack you.
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The problem with stealing is the risk vs. the reward. Levelling up a stealing alt is a pain in the ass, but once you have, you run around as a bluesuit and have nothing to lose.
My solution:
Thieves can only see items of similar or less value to their own inventories on their victims.
For example, if a thief is carrying nothing, he can't see anything on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $250 worth of gear/money on him, he can see items worth $250 and below on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $1000 worth of gear/money, he can see items worth $1000 and below. Etc.
A system where you can get items for free from other players without risking anything yourself makes no sense. So, there should be something for the victim to gain as well as the thief to lose. Ideally if the thief dies, his gear would automatically go to the victim. But that would require some kind of guard based magic.
But I really think PvP stealing should be disabled. I don't see how it improves the game at all.
Although it doesn't really make sense, this is a good balancing solution in the end. Although, you shouldn't have to have EXACTLY or above the amount worth in inventory to steal. Maybe something like 50% of its worth.
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If aiming for realism, that doesn't really work. And even so, you can just start off with 200 Caps, steal 100 of his, then steal 150... etc. etc.
I mean really, with a good enough steal skill you can take anyones items. Then just deposit in the nearest bank and keep going.
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But I really think PvP stealing should be disabled. I don't see how it improves the game at all.
Try rolling a thief sometime. Honestly, this is Fallout. Every fallout game has stealing. It's part of what makes it great. You can do what you want in it.
We can't have all powerbuild combat character. We need some doctors, thieves, crafters, etc.
Furthermore, if caught stealing from another player. I think guards should attack you.
The guards tell you that they saw the thief, so you can take matters into your own hands. They have more to worry about than petty theft. Besides, is theft a capital offense? What if people were executed for stealing? That's crazy. It's not possible to put a fine system into effect, but if caught your rep does lower. The patrols around the city will shoot you if you're -300 or worse.
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Yes, then when you attack the thief, they attack you for violence. It happens, I've tried it.
This is fallout, life is tough I think everyone understands that, but it is a real drain on the game when people can steal from you with no consequence, and if you retaliate in a town you lose ALL your stuff. Its just cheap.
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You can shoot unprotected thieves.
Which means either guards noticed them stealing and said something like 'player name it seems like thief name is interested in your possessions' or you get a red line in your log that someone failed stealing.
Than, and only than, you can shoot a thief. If you're a burster, be careful not to hit anyone else or guards will shoot you.
As TheGreenHand said:
Thief accounts have their downsides too.
A pure thief build is hard to level and encounters are a huge risk if your rep is below -300.
Also as a (known) thief you'll know you'll get shot on sight any player encounter and unguarded towns.
You also risk to get shot in unguarded towns when still being protected simply because someone either doesn't care or hopes you're unprotected.
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Alright, this is derailing into work arounds.
As stated, player to player stealing is just a bad idea in general. The entire prospect of it just hurts players, and rewards those who can't get their own things. Lets say I walk into town just got some nice loot from a Hub Patrol, I go to sell it, someone thieves it from me. They just got a nice item without any consequence ESPECIALLY if they didn't get caught.
This suggestion was to prevent that, and in terms of realism IT MAKES SENSE.
I see no REAL REASON why this shouldnt be implemented, other than claiming that I am just whining about being stolen from and want it to be nerfed.
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Alright, let me give you an example where you can steal however much you please and no one can do a damn thing.
Junktown, if someone steals and they get tagged as a thief, you can kill them right?
Wrong, pull out a weapon and the guards kill you. So that thief just keeps pickpocketing you and you have no defense at it. It is not right, I understand that the wasteland is harsh, but this is an example of BAD game mechanics.
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Alright, let me give you an example where you can steal however much you please and no one can do a damn thing.
Junktown, if someone steals and they get tagged as a thief, you can kill them right?
Wrong, pull out a weapon and the guards kill you. So that thief just keeps pickpocketing you and you have no defense at it. It is not right, I understand that the wasteland is harsh, but this is an example of BAD game mechanics.
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dont triple post. :( use edit
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Alright, this is derailing into work arounds.
As stated, player to player stealing is just a bad idea in general. The entire prospect of it just hurts players, and rewards those who can't get their own things. Lets say I walk into town just got some nice loot from a Hub Patrol, I go to sell it, someone thieves it from me. They just got a nice item without any consequence ESPECIALLY if they didn't get caught.
This suggestion was to prevent that, and in terms of realism IT MAKES SENSE.
I see no REAL REASON why this shouldnt be implemented, other than claiming that I am just whining about being stolen from and want it to be nerfed.
How is this different from encountering a group of PK (with mercs/slaves)?
They get your items without any consequences too.
Pay attention when trading.
Alright, let me give you an example where you can steal however much you please and no one can do a damn thing.
Junktown, if someone steals and they get tagged as a thief, you can kill them right?
Wrong, pull out a weapon and the guards kill you. So that thief just keeps pickpocketing you and you have no defense at it. It is not right, I understand that the wasteland is harsh, but this is an example of BAD game mechanics.
The same goes for NCR and to a lesser effect VC inner cities.
You know that when you enter.
Than again, I have shot an unprotected thief in Junktown this session. You have to be quick to pull it of. Put the weapon in the active slot, burst, remove it from the active slot. If you're fast enough you are removing it or already have removed it from the active slot when the guards warn you.
If you let a thief steal from you while knowing he's a thief, you deserve to be stolen from.
You can always move away.
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How is this different from encountering a group of PK (with mercs/slaves)?
They get your items without any consequences too.
Pay attention when trading.
Both are bad features. It's been generally stated that killing without consequences is harmful to fonline.
And what comes to tips to deal with thieves with current situation, sure you can hand out tips. But the best tip is to not to enter safe cities. The moment I saw a thief with hotel room in hub I moved to raiders and have lived there ever since. Ofcourse there are always ways to get over things. But it doesn't mean something is fine and isn't to be questioned.
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Thiefs are just trolls they dont even stole from you becouse of loot, they just annoy you and have fun by pissing you off.
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Thiefs are just trolls they dont even stole from you becouse of loot, they just annoy you and have fun by pissing you off.
This.
I understand, and please note this, I understand that thieving is a part of the wasteland life, but the way that it is implemented in this game is a GIANT drain on it.
If you steal from someone, you just got their hard earned items with a skill that doesn't take that long to level (Don't question this, I have done a thief)
And as stated, in guarded cities like NCR and Junktown and the like, you cannot even pull out your gun to attack them, and stop them. They can just walk around grabbing peoples items with NOTHING to stop them. NOTHING! NOTHING AT ALL!
I am not saying GET RID of stealing, because then the thieves would be all wtf? about it.
This system MAKES SENSE. I have pointed out why aswell, if I am trading with someone, bartering my items. I am going to be paying an extreme amount of attention to my items, and the same when it is my inventory.
This is what I have to say about it.
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This.
I understand, and please note this, I understand that thieving is a part of the wasteland life, but the way that it is implemented in this game is a GIANT drain on it.
If you steal from someone, you just got their hard earned items with a skill that doesn't take that long to level (Don't question this, I have done a thief)
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In my experience most people who are grieving aren't actually thieves. They just try to scare you away from the trader to trade themselves, or they just like to annoy the hell out of you. Don't blame thieves for that.
Level 1 bursters and their friends can take your items with just as much ease and without any consequences either. It doesn't even require leveling. Should we ban level 1 accounts with SMGs from towns or should we make it impossible to use bursting in guarded towns?
And as stated, in guarded cities like NCR and Junktown and the like, you cannot even pull out your gun to attack them, and stop them. They can just walk around grabbing peoples items with NOTHING to stop them. NOTHING! NOTHING AT ALL!
As stated by me, I have successfully bursted a thief in Junktown (inner town) without getting killed.
You need to be very quick. Having your gun in the 2nd slot, moving it to the active slot, burst, move the gun to the 2nd slot.
I'm sure it's possible in some NCR areas too.
As for NCR inner city, there's actually a simple solution:
Every failed thief gets arrested automatically and all his items are seized by the guards.
The thief gets jailed for a few real-time hours, which could depend on his rep with the town.
If there's a way to determine from whom the items were stolen (up to devs to say if that's possible to implement), victims can get them back for a fee.
The thief can get undeclared items back for a fee as well once his jail time is over.
The fee should be a percentage of the value of the items.
I am not saying GET RID of stealing, because then the thieves would be all wtf? about it.
This system MAKES SENSE. I have pointed out why aswell, if I am trading with someone, bartering my items. I am going to be paying an extreme amount of attention to my items, and the same when it is my inventory.
This is what I have to say about it.
You're also paying an extreme amount of attention to the merchant's inventory instead of your own's.
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In Junktown hit the thief with an unarmed attack. If he fights back guards will take care of him, if not he will be the one running away.
Anyway something should be done, and I for one will not cry if there would be no pvp thief at all.
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In Junktown hit the thief with an unarmed attack. If he fights back guards will take care of him, if not he will be the one running away.
Anyway something should be done, and I for one will not cry if there would be no pvp thief at all.
If you have no descent HtH skill and therefore don't do much damage, I doubt the thief will run away.
There's no shortage in grievers around traders.
If it's not by using an animation to pretend to be stealing to clear the merchant, it's by making the merchant inaccessible, pushing the merchant and/or player out of range of eachother, etc.
Yesterday I was harassed by 3 different people within 10 minutes while trading in the Hub.
I'm not sure about the 3rd, but 2 of them just used it to free the merchant.
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It seems this thread has dropped down to the higher pages.
I think this needs serious action.
Regards, Deagonx.