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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Izual on December 19, 2009, 02:52:37 pm
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What's this idea ?
It would be cool if players were able to play ghouls or mutants. It would had diversity and mix a bit this clones-world ! It would, plus, add some more RPG-elements to the game, because if you want to be really good at Big Guns, you need to be a mutant, and not to remain human.
Developers said that in the late future this feature would be enabled. Let's give them some ideas and some more details about it !
Why would I change my race ?
Mutants and ghouls have lots of flaws. Most of them are due to one thing : Fallout developers never made their complete animation set. It means that ghouls can only use rifles, and Mutants can only use big guns. Except if someone spends hours and hours on this, we'll have to deal with it. If you decide to change your race, it means you'll suffer those flaws. That's why - and for realism - you also need some good qualities.
Ghouls
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2839/race1.gif)
Ghouls are slow. There are two different ghouls skin, the green one (Harold's skin) and the Scavenger's one (Lenny skin). Green can use rifles (Small gun skill only) and Scavengers can use pistols. To give a particularity to the ghouls, it's better to make them able to use the rifles instead of the pistols. So green skin seems the best choice. Also, because they are slow, using pistols only would be a real suicide.
Inconvenients :
- They can use only rifles (small gun rifles animation).
- They are very slow. I mean they are REALLY slow, a lot slower than a walking human.
What can we give them as qualities ? Ghouls can use rifles and are slow. They would be perfect as snipers ! They also could be smart. They would be wonderful crafters, also, or doctors.
So here is what I suggest for them :
- SPECIAL : Maximum strenght : 5 ; Perception bonus : +9 (So they all would have 10) ; Maximum Endurance : 5 ; Maximum Charisma : 1 ; Intelligence bonus : +3, Agility : -3 (Max. 7) ; Luck : Same as normal.
- Jinxed trait.
- Radiation resistance : +50
- Damage resistance : -10
- Various % bonuses to skills Small Guns, Doctor, First Aid, Repair, Science.
So they would be very slow, fragile, ugly (CH 1), good snipers and good crafters.
Mutants
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9615/race3.gif) (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1108/race4.gif)
Mutants are slow. They can use all the big guns weapons and the energy rifles.
Inconvenients :
- They can use only big guns and energy rifles.
- They are slow, like a walking human.
We can see that they have less inconvenients than ghouls : They can use lots of guns and are faster. What can we give them as qualities ? With Big Guns and Energy guns, and also because they are big, it'd be wise to use them as tanks.
So here is what I suggest for them :
- SPECIAL : Strenght bonus : +9 (So they all would have 10); Perception : -4 (Max. 6) ; Endurance bonus : +3 ; Maximum Charisma : 1 ; Intelligence : -10 (Max. 1), Agility : -3 ; Luck : Same as normal.
- Radiation resistance : +50
- Damage resistance : +10
- Various and tremendous % bonuses to skills Big Guns, Energy Guns, Unarmed, Melee, Lockpick.
So they would be slow, tough, ugly (CH 1), tough and good fighters in close combat.
Armors
Armors are a problem, at least for mutants. Neither ghouls nor mutants can wear normal armors. It's not a real problem for the fragile ghouls, but mutants need some, because they're close-combat fighters.
- Of course, they could only rely on their high damage resistance and their high Hit Points (They'd need a bonus on it, in that case).
- There's another solution but that requires more work. I think it's not the best solution : To make some armors only for mutants/ghouls, that do not change skin. But it's hard to do, I think.
How would I become a ghoul or a mutant ?
One easy solution is to make it an option on registeration. But I'd personnally prefer some quest. To become a mutant, a long quest at the Cathedral (Master and unity headquarters) could be fine. For the ghouls, maybe in Gecko (Quest in the powerplant ?) or in Necropolis (The mean Set transforms another poor victim into ghoul ?).
As always, feel free to discuss and argue about any point here. And don't forget to vote, there's a poll above this topic !
Thank you for reading. Post your comments and critics !
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the 'scavenger' ghoul skins have running animations (even if they do look broken like hell)?
That could be a pay off for choosing that type of ghoul and only being able to use pistols, you could have both in-game then if this was ever to happen.
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If we include playability of ghoul and supermutant, we take the original ghoul. We nailed it down to this already long time ago.
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Isn't Mutant's max. IN 1 a bit too harsh? That's only 7 skill points per level and combined with max. PE 6, won't it be hard to hit anything at long range (especially during night)? And there were occasionaly smarter mutants than IN 1 in Fallout games.
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Well - Imho it would be better to base this on fo:t SPECIAL builds for those... eeer "races" ;)
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Hum .. it will be hard to run against all the creatures of the wasteland :D
But, I like the idea of the quest wich give us a new possibility of play (reroll in new race?)
And why not have new perk/trait with each race like Fallout tactic.
About SPECIAL of them .. why Mutants or Ghouls can't be a good leader? 3 max in charisma and very bad reputation in every human city can be fine
For armor, make a defaut mutant trait which give a bonus each level. Level 21 mutant have an equivalent of an armor.
Or somethings like that.
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I think what you've laid forward is terrible, you've given each race a bunch of preset stats with no thought to balance but rather to the backstory.
So what we end up with is a bunch of races that can only do one or two things and have bonuses that don't actually work together with the few things they can do.
"You can use big guns and laser rifles!" "Oh yeah you also have only 1 int so the total you can get in a skill is no where near enough to use either of those gun types"
"Oh you're also good at unarmed, good luck getting near them at crawling speeds"
You need to put alot more consideration into balance instead of just putting together a bunch of stats that might make sense for the race, as I've said before there is a huge line between the backstory and gameplay.
edit
Values like -3 endurance show that you've put next to no thought into the balance of this, odd endurance and agility are worthless so -3 is effectively -4 if you max it.
And your poll is biased in that it does not offer a "I dislike this suggestion" rather it just lets you say you don't agree with the concept at all, or you do agree.
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True words - making character being unable to perform some tasks due to stats (like not being able to talk with npcs - that is really rpigish ;), and limiting access to certain perks) is not good way...
So - has engine hard code limits to stats that it can only be from range of 1 to 10?
If not then Here goes SPECIAL from Fo:T for ghouls and super mutants (green values are starting stats):
Ghouls:
| S | P | E | C | I | A | L |
| | 1-3-8 | | 4-8-13 | | 1-5-10 | | 1-4-10 | | 2-6-10 | | 1-4-6 | | 5-7-12 | |
Rad resistance: 40%, Poison Resistance - 10%
Super Mutants:
| S | P | E | C | I | A | L |
| | 5-8-13 | | 1-5-11 | | 4-6-11 | | 1-5-10 | | 1-3-8 | | 1-3-8 | | 1-5-10 | |
Rad resistance: 20%, Poison Resistance - 20%, Damage Resistance - 25%
Both races got Perks for every 4th level, and had access to racial traits/perks...
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Ghouls and Mutants with CH 10 and IN 10 ?
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Ghouls and Mutants with CH 10 and IN 10 ?
It looks like it was done in favor of balance.
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Ghouls and Mutants with CH 10 and IN 10 ?
Why not, since they are derivatives from humans (via mutation) they shouldn't fall long away from their origin...
Forcing someone to roleplay character who is ugly as fuck and has intelligence of vegetable isn't good idea. This simplifies their role only to one purpose (sniper and so called "tank"). Doesn't those races had leaders? Thinkers, scientists, doctors, mechanics?
Wanna super mutant, or ghoul with CH 10 and IN 10? Sure why not, but he wont be fighter at all...
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The masters lieutenant was pretty smart too.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/1/18/FO01_NPC_Lou.png)
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And Marcus.
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/c/c0/Marcus.jpg/250px-Marcus.jpg)
Y'know, I don't think I'd even put Harry as low as 1 Intelligence.
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/thumb/9/9b/Harry.jpg/250px-Harry.jpg)
He may seem pretty dumb but he could be 1-3 Intelligence for all we know (like when you play a low Intelligence character in Fallout 1/2).
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I was kind of amazed when I started playing this that the Devs hadn't made this an option. it would add a ton of variety to the game, and lets face it..."encounters" are few and far between. Caveat: Unless you like rats.
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Too high bonus and punish. +9, and -9 is to extremism. +7/-7 look better, imho.
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Harold is smart, maybe little ugly, but charisma is not only appearance ;D
whatever, maybe main skills will be same, but other races can have it different perks.
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I think there is some confusion about charisma, because people (I mean NPCs) consider you as a ghoul (or as an ugly freak - you choose) when you talk to them with CHA 1.
I agree that you can be an abomination, but a charismatic abomination.
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Well making Ghouls and Super Mutants is really good idea but making Ghouls really slow will make them unable to play, nobody will want to play as slow ghoul and will be pissed off. Super Mutants shouldn't have 1 intelligence, most Super Mutants are stupid but not all and giving them 1 Intelligence will make them unplayable too because 7 skill points for level is not that much :/ I think they should have minuses to SPECIAL like -2 or -4 to stats and +2, +4 to others but not like -9 or +9 because everyone is Special :D
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If you'll be a slow ghoul and try to go to NCR for workbench and then to exit grid you can probobly go sleep and then play again when your character is on the world map ....
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A walking ghoul is as fast as a normal walking player.
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its not this green abomination slow like hell ? slower than walking people ?
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A bit, yes. But I personally don't think that it matters much. And in emergency cases, we can speed it up a bit.
Anway.. ghouls and mutants will not be ingame in sooner future.
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I don't see the problems with ghouls/mutants being charismatic - Harold and Lou certainly are. You just balance it out by having certain places with 'anti-mutant prejudices', like VC. Probably Reno.
I've always wondered why 'civilian' models aren't used as potential player models. Obviously the heavily armoured ones are best avoided to prevent confusion. But leather and below are fine. So long as you tell people that if they're Katja, for example, they can only use spears and smgs and they can equip no armour beyond leather jackets (and then script it so they can't), what's the problem? Just talk to a guy in the little respawn house. It seems like a very easy way of making the world seem a lot more fresh and interesting.
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Don't forget deathclaws! The goris skin would be perfect for hth chars. It has all the animations and has one of the coolest looking animations where he throws down his robes. I think all the followers from F2 should be usuable depending on what skills you have tagged.
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i think not only ghouls, mutants. you have in game many skins: doctors, warriors, farmers, junkies, prosititutes, kids, merchants, gnomes.. 60-70% of them has full fighting/shooting animations.
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i think not only ghouls, mutants. you have in game many skins: doctors, warriors, farmers, junkies, prosititutes, kids, merchants, gnomes.. 60-70% of them has full fighting/shooting animations.
actually they don't, most have like 2 weapon animations and lack many of the less obvious animations.
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actually they don't, most have like 2 weapon animations and lack many of the less obvious animations.
you talking about "junkies, prosititutes and kids" - ok, right. now say something about ghouls in PA
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Oh well, Ghouls can be pretty smart but I'd rather take down on their perception. You can say that a good portion of ghouls will be one eyed. The other half just might suffer all kinds of conditions, from having their eyes so exposed into the sun. I'm sure that their eyelids have either rotten away or the little muscle that controls it might be non-functional. I wouldn't be quick to make ghouls sharpshooters. They could have plenty of Endurance, instead. Hit Points is the amount of damage you can take, and ghouls can't take too much, but HP is split into Strength and Endurance. I agree to ghouls having low ST and high EN. They might not be very strong but they sure resist poison, radiation and pain.
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Oh well, Ghouls can be pretty smart but I'd rather take down on their perception. You can say that a good portion of ghouls will be one eyed. The other half just might suffer all kinds of conditions, from having their eyes so exposed into the sun. I'm sure that their eyelids have either rotten away or the little muscle that controls it might be non-functional. I wouldn't be quick to make ghouls sharpshooters. They could have plenty of Endurance, instead. Hit Points is the amount of damage you can take, and ghouls can't take too much, but HP is split into Strength and Endurance. I agree to ghouls having low ST and high EN. They might not be very strong but they sure resist poison, radiation and pain.
This goes totally against cannon since ghouls have always had superhuman perception and very low endurance.
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now say something about ghouls in PA
One question - if Ghoul could wear PA, does PA able him to run (and gives other weapon animations)? You know, new, improved "body", new possibilities...
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I think ghouls should not be so slow, make them equal as the mutans speed.
And dont give them +9 per, 8 is Ok, and at least 2 charisma, and maximum of charisma should be 5.
The bonus of them should be, outdoorsman +10%, since they wont use, energy weapons, and big weapons... give them 100% of small weapons, but only rifles and shotguns, no pistols and so on, and give them some basic melee dmg.
My Idea is, they should be slower then the humans, like the mutants, not so strong, and should have low endurance also they should have average high intelligence and very high perception, making them the perfect snipers.
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Why wouldn't they use pistols? They already have the animation and there is no logical reason they wouldn't be able to.
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placing a quest for ghouls or in necropolis sounds good,gives a reason to go there i suppose yes?
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There is an important issue concerning playability with other races:
Fallout 1 & 2 (and thus FOnline) were never meant to support this, SPECIAL system, perks and such are meant to play human only characters
Deathclaws and Super Mutants can be stronger than strongest humans
Ghouls can be far more perceptive, inteligent or lucky than humans (according to canon of course)
And so right now all inhuman characters would have their SPECIAL stats not higher that 10 and that would cripple non human races =/
Before other races could be implemented SPECIAL needs to be reworked (BTW humans could have more than 10 in a statistic f.e. due to drug usage)
PS. I would really LOVE to play other races. I thought that after F:Tactics the next step would be a game where you can play any race. FOnline is my only hope for this
PPS. Ghouls' running speed should be dependable upon their Action points (as well as every critter's in game, living or not)
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Tactics had different maximums and minimums for stats but the same amount of points to use. You could make a powerful melee supermutant but because you have the same amount of points to distribute putting that many into one skill would leave you pretty crippled in other departments. Take ghouls for instance, yes you can have like 13 PE but do you really want to be running around with no hp? The mechanics pretty much remain the same since "overpowering" a stat is a sacrifice for slight improvement. 14 str only adds 4 damage to hth, 12 pe gives you crazy range but you can't surpass the range of your weapon so it's not that much better than 10. In tactics there was only about 3 racial perks per species but it added some variation to the character building aspect which this game seriously needs. With limited working perks and only a few that are worth taking it constricts the ability to make in depth characters.
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Roachor
Those who know mechanics well and made many builds in different fallout systems would hardly ever want their Endurance & Agility as low as 10 when playing a Deathclaw, Perception as low as 10 while playing a Ghoul and in some cases strenght as low as 10 when playing Super mutant (want to carry more big gun ammo than any human ever could)
Second thing is that racial perk really kicks ass, they are far better than human-only perks
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If the game mechanics don't allow special stats over 10 just give ghouls and super mutants (and death claws if implemented) specific bonuses and maluses in form of racial trats/perks:
For example:
When character turns from human to mutant his profile changes as follows:
- -2 Ch, -2 Int (down to minimum 1)
- +2 St, +2 En (up to max 10)
- Gain +5 on melee dmg, +20 Hit points, +20% dmg res and + 4 Dmg treshold, +50 lbs (22 kilos) of carry weight capacity
- Can't wear anything more than leather armors, can't use small guns or pistols
Similarly for ghoul:
- -2 Ch, -2 En, -1St (down to minimum 1)
- +2 Pe, +2 Lk, +1In (up to max 10)
- Gain +5 dmg per ranged attack (like Living anatomy perk), +10 feet of field of vision, +20% poison and rad resistances.
- Lose 10 Hp and cant wear anything more than leather armors, can't use big guns ecc...
Of course theese bonuses/penalties have to be adjusted, but they would allow you to have greater variety even without changing the game mechanic.
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BaffoBeardson
Wether it's a good or bad idea (talking about stats you've suggested) it has nothing in common with canon!
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I don't see any problem with using the tactics non human perks (if that's possible) and racial stat min/maximums. They screwed up the ghouls radiation resistance though. They suffered its negative effects when ghouls are supposed to be healed by it.
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Well as a ghoul you could have taken "rad child" perk which raised your healing rate when exposed to radiation
Another thing is that as a glowing(one trait) ghoul with Endurance at least 5 your rad resistance is 100 (from what i've calculated)
PS. I dont think that implementing some perks would be a problem, all of them however would...
(BRoF & BHtHA still doesn't work so Super mutant "steady arm" perk which caused burst shots to be 1 AP cheper to perform might be bugged in FO as well)
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Thing is ghouls should never take rad damage and it should of been rad absorption not resistance.
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Thing is ghouls should never take rad damage and it should of been rad absorption not resistance.
Not really...
While radiation generally is good for a ghoul's health - if too much of it is built up in ghoul's system it will damage his/her brain
Outcome are crazies, or more in more severe cases ghouls like most of those withinin necropolis in fallout 1 (they could only speak in vowels and only while attacking player)
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When character turns from human to mutant his profile changes as follows:
- -2 Ch, -2 Int (down to minimum 1)
- +2 St, +2 En (up to max 10)
- Gain +5 on melee dmg, +20 Hit points, +20% dmg res and + 4 Dmg treshold, +50 lbs (22 kilos) of carry weight capacity
- Can't wear anything more than leather armors, can't use small guns or pistols
Similarly for ghoul:
- -2 Ch, -2 En, -1St (down to minimum 1)
- +2 Pe, +2 Lk, +1In (up to max 10)
- Gain +5 dmg per ranged attack (like Living anatomy perk), +10 feet of field of vision, +20% poison and rad resistances.
- Lose 10 Hp and cant wear anything more than leather armors, can't use big guns ecc...
I think this is quite good.
ofc it's gonna need some balancing but it's reasonable.
can't wait to play as a ghoul or mutant ;)
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Another one... =/
What's good in f.e. +2 to given statistic if it can't surpass 10 points one way or another? =/
Now i'm still waiting for devs response about possibilities of reworking SPECIAL so the stats could be more than 10
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Another one... =/
What's good in f.e. +2 to given statistic if it can't surpass 10 points one way or another? =/
Now i'm still waiting for devs response about possibilities of reworking SPECIAL so the stats could be more than 10
/me wonders how much hp an Endurance 20 character would have.
Definitely need players with about 400 hp walking around, don't forget those lifegivers too.
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/me wonders how much hp an Endurance 20 character would have.
Definitely need players with about 400 hp walking around, don't forget those lifegivers too.
That must be the guy with Frank Horrigan skin.
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/me wonders how much hp an Endurance 20 character would have.
Definitely need players with about 400 hp walking around, don't forget those lifegivers too.
I thought that several posts before i made myself clear about canon SPECIAL values concerning different races
Stop exaggerating about 20 Endurance and 400hp when Deathclaws and Super mutants can have 13 Endurance TOPS, which is about 26 HP more than healthiest humans on level 21 and those races certainly deserve such HP bonus because mutants and deathclaws are obviously much tougher than humans (plus the're bigger targets and thus much easier to hit in RT combat)
Please, do some calculations before putting some random exaggeration next time
EDIT: Forgot to tell you that Muties have additional initial +10 hp and DCs have +15, which is still not that much in total
EDIT2: Ghouls suffer -5 initial hp but otherwise can have 1-10 endurance (+10% built in normal damage resistance)
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Not to mention if you've ever played as those races not being able to wear armour screws you over pretty badly. Even with 200+ hp you won't last very long taking full damage.
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Another one who doesn't know a thing about other races...
Deathclaws and Super Mutants have built in "armor" due to their thick leathery skin - not to mention about advanced racial perks which give bonuses to various damage resistances
Besides i dont see any reason for armorer crafters not to be able to make leather/metal armors for muties and at least a some robes for deathclaws
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I want to play as DOG! :P On laws and schematics from F-Tac. Ultimate 15 action points sneaking machine with Slayer :P
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Another one who doesn't know a thing about other races...
Deathclaws and Super Mutants have built in "armor" due to their thick leathery skin - not to mention about advanced racial perks which give bonuses to various damage resistances
Besides i dont see any reason for armorer crafters not to be able to make leather/metal armors for muties and at least a some robes for deathclaws
First of all, don't question my fallout knowledge, I've been playing fallout since the demo was released and have played it constantly since then. Supermutants could take vat skin which is just a dodge bonus and hide of scars only gives 15% res. Yes armour for mutants and ghouls could be possible but it does not exist. As for deathclaw robes, if they were a playable race you'd need to use the goris skin all the time because adult deathclaws are too big and it's the only plausible way you could interact with anyone without them shooting you on sight.
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First of all, don't question my fallout knowledge, I've been playing fallout since the demo was released and have played it constantly since then. Supermutants could take vat skin which is just a dodge bonus and hide of scars only gives 15% res. Yes armour for mutants and ghouls could be possible but it does not exist. As for deathclaw robes, if they were a playable race you'd need to use the goris skin all the time because adult deathclaws are too big and it's the only plausible way you could interact with anyone without them shooting you on sight.
Uhm... i've questioned your knowledge because you've said that " Even with 200+ hp you won't last very long taking full damage." which is equal to saying that muties have no inborn resistances (but in fact their skin is a little better than leather armor)
Besides:
- "Vat Skin" is just an AC bonus - correct
- "Hide of scars" is a Deathclaw perk - gives +15% to all resists. except fire (2 ranks)
- S. Mutant perk is "Tough hide" which gives +15 to AC and +10% to all resists (2 ranks)
Well if D.claws were to be playable i would suggest goris' skin (robed or not)
And yes - playing a Deathclaw would probably be a hardcore when trying to interact with many NPC or at least entering most towns. Even though i just cannot imagine that i could not play a Deathclaw some day, hope that dream is still to come true ;) (I've liked playing DeathClaws most of all races in Fallout P&P 2.0)
"Yes armour for mutants and ghouls could be possible" - agree as they aren't so damn clumsy not to make themselves some protection in some form of armor or other (in follout 1 & 2 there were almost no need for it cause you've played as human - and it also showed how isolated Muties were that "nobody cares for them enough to make an armor,or anything else, that fits them)
"but it does not exist" - Doesn't exist for now, but we do have crafting system which could be harnessed to make some Non-human armors... after all in previous fallouts crafting system didn't exist too :)
Well sorry for saying that you don't know a thing, now i see you do, but please be more accurate and specific next time to avoid misunderstandings such as this one
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Don't forget 2xThoughness perk = +10% dr and +4 dmg treshold
Anyway Though hide would probably be modified in a similar manner as Though (or could stay as it is in FT to compensate for armors...).
Never the less, with a specialized build you could still make over the top s. mutant tanks and ghoul snipers, but you'd have to plan it in advance when you create the char; even if special stats can't go over 10 you could take St 8 on your initial human char to reach 10 (with the racial boost once you turn into super mutant) and the additional racial bonuses (like +5 melee dmg and extra carry weight) would partially compensate for the missing points of strength you would have in FT.
It's the same as if in FT you'd invest less points in St during char creation, counting on future weapon handling perk or the St boost you get when wearing Pow armor.
Ofc if the devs will be able/willing to change the special stats limits, I'm in favor of potential St 13 super muties, but if it isn't possible I still think this compromise (the proposition in my previous post) would be acceptable.
P.S. As a matter of fact I'd be more than happy even if we got just the possibility of switching the standard bluesuiter skin with other skins, regardless of racial bonuses.
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Don't forget 2xThoughness perk = +10% dr and +4 dmg treshold
Anyway Though hide would probably be modified in a similar manner as Though (or could stay as it is in FT to compensate for armors...).
Never the less, with a specialized build you could still make over the top s. mutant tanks and ghoul snipers, but you'd have to plan it in advance when you create the char; even if special stats can't go over 10 you could take St 8 on your initial human char to reach 10 (with the racial boost once you turn into super mutant) and the additional racial bonuses (like +5 melee dmg and extra carry weight) would partially compensate for the missing points of strength you would have in FT.
It's the same as if in FT you'd invest less points in St during char creation, counting on future weapon handling perk or the St boost you get when wearing Pow armor.
Ofc if the devs will be able/willing to change the special stats limits, I'm in favor of potential St 13 super muties, but if it isn't possible I still think this compromise (the proposition in my previous post) would be acceptable.
P.S. As a matter of fact I'd be more than happy even if we got just the possibility of switching the standard bluesuiter skin with other skins, regardless of racial bonuses.
I didn't forget about Toughness perk for a single moment. Its just that other races gain perks every 4 levels thus allowing to have only 5 perks till level 21. So in this case almost no one would pick such inferior perk when there is still many advanced racial perks better than this one
There could be some quests to become ghoul or mutie but i prefer as starting non-human character from a scrach, not as a mundane, puny human ;)
Racial bonuses such as bonus melee damage/carry weight/sequence /etc. is only a partial sollution - however - if every excess SPECIAL point spent over max ten allowed in char creation screen would affect derived stats as normal and keep their levels upon entering the game, then THIS would be acceptable
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I think we should keep the stat min/maxs for non humans from tactics.
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yes, you shouldent be able to have high int and be forced to have low int. yes, you should have lower chrisma with some humans and be shot on sight in some towns. but in broken hills you get better prices. also, if somone wants to be a mutie just have em go to vault 12 for scav skin and for the other muties just go to the military base. wontt be regular ghouls but they will still look like em
dam smoothskins
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Damn.. seems like this topic got peoples attention..
I will stay out of the somewhat touchy subject of stats, and just cheer on the devs for their hard work, and trust in that they make a solid ground for us to make remarks about when they implement other playable races :)
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ghouls should have 3 ch, and be alowed to trade and talk in mutant tollerant towns. they would also be [rptected in bh and have many chances thar
gecko is thee best place for ghouls to be
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Yeah I Agree with This, But there should be Clothes for Humans Aswell
EG:
Dude with Yellow Shirt: Rifles
Green Shirt Guy: SMG's
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i like the idea realy but i think the game has more important problems..... :'(
i mean the server lag what brings us new characters, weapons, skills, skins, races.... if we have monster lags and cant realy play nice :)
that should not be a flame only remind you :-*
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Well for the super mutant i would sugest allowing them to only wear Leather Jacket (Mutie Skin with the black suit) and Metal Armor (Lieutenant skin from Fallout 1)
OR
Perhaps the devs should take a look at Fallout Tactic Multiplayer Character creator, a lot of good idea are there!You can even customize your own character hair and skin colour ^^ It would allow players to play Dogs, Brahmins as well as deathclaw! hehe ;D
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090527090609/fallout/images/1/1e/Deathclaw_Swipe_Attack_%28Fallout_Tactics%29.gif)
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With the new 3D era, no need to focus on which Fallout skins are already available. It will be easy to make our owns.
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With the new 3D era, no need to focus on which Fallout skins are already available. It will be easy to make our owns.
I want to play as brahmin, dispensing nutritious glowing milk to thirsty wanderers.
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True words - making character being unable to perform some tasks due to stats (like not being able to talk with npcs - that is really rpigish ;), and limiting access to certain perks) is not good way...
So - has engine hard code limits to stats that it can only be from range of 1 to 10?
If not then Here goes SPECIAL from Fo:T for ghouls and super mutants (green values are starting stats):
Ghouls:
| S | P | E | C | I | A | L |
| | 1-3-8 | | 4-8-13 | | 1-5-10 | | 1-4-10 | | 2-6-10 | | 1-4-6 | | 5-7-12 | |
Rad resistance: 40%, Poison Resistance - 10%
Super Mutants:
| S | P | E | C | I | A | L |
| | 5-8-13 | | 1-5-11 | | 4-6-11 | | 1-5-10 | | 1-3-8 | | 1-3-8 | | 1-5-10 | |
Rad resistance: 20%, Poison Resistance - 20%, Damage Resistance - 25%
Both races got Perks for every 4th level, and had access to racial traits/perks...
+1
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Hello there should be an option to become a mutant via quest (to make things easier) perhaps some doctor willing to try new drug on you and youre the happy volunteer! Of course results turned bad and you became a mutant!
You got hp boost (50% I guess its good?) got bonus to unarmed dmg (melee not available - are there any skins for mutant melee ? Dunno) + carry weight? (spawning carrying alts - dont want) and in other ways the player would face the consequences of being a mutant - no armors for you!
Why would it be good? Fun! Maybe some war meat in TC, but first and foremost introduce some variety in this bluesuit madness...with some green :D. The bonuses would need to be balanced. The mutant form would give more survival rate for beginners while it would be unusable for higher lvls...
Oh yeah, and the reverse, to become a human again could be done by antitode offered by some other doctor ;)
Discuss
Already discussed to death, in first thread on this board. Merged. /Wipe/
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- You will be slow as hell as you can't run.
- You won't be able to use most of the guns.
- You won't be able to wear armors.
- You will get bored soon (believe me you will) by this and will nag GMs or Devs about to turn your skin back.
Also it's not the first time someone suggested this. Also, lol @ drinking and Antidote and magically turning into human again.
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- You will be slow as hell as you can't run.
- You won't be able to use most of the guns.
- You won't be able to wear armors.
- You will get bored soon (believe me you will) by this and will nag GMs or Devs about to turn your skin back.
Also it's not the first time someone suggested this. Also, lol @ drinking and Antidote and magically turning into human again.
1 RUN - Oh Dammit I forgot muties cant run...hmm... so maybe could boost their DR? :D
2. Not a problem, youre brute power would grant HtH skills basically, yeah I got it
3. read 1
4. Probably, dunno, it could be like it could serve as a tank in TC :D There are some drawbacks, hm but maybe there could be a weapon "only to use by mutants" like some high end one like Bozar? Theres a potential, if not the low-level then it could be end lvl as well :) Of course the lack of running would be the main drawback but some special item to use by mutants would recompensate for lack of speed...
WOOPS I heated up some good old thread. Round 2? :D
also
Anway.. ghouls and mutants will not be ingame in sooner future.
it was december... is it soon future anyhow now? :D
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(...) is it soon future anyhow now? :D
Definition of word "soon" in FOnline:2238 can be found here (http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Soon).
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to be honest it doesnt look like our old good f2 anymore .... is there any way to make it look a bit better?
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Some guy made a mod for CiV 3 adding fallout type things, there was a ghoul and mutant faction with ghouls using lots of wepons like spears and laser guns ang stuff.
Just sayin might be usefull.
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i don't think it will be implemented , until we are far in testing the 3d era, since this will need brand new models, animations, placeholders, skins, and of course balance.
In any case, ghouls should be able to run, but suffer from a lack of maximum strength, while enjoying the benefits from an upgraded intelligence
Super mutants will suffer from reduced agility and intelligence, but will have a benefit in the strength and endurance aspects.
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i don't think it will be implemented , until we are far in testing the 3d era, since this will need brand new models, animations, placeholders, skins, and of course balance.
In any case, ghouls should be able to run, but suffer from a lack of maximum strength, while enjoying the benefits from an upgraded intelligence
Super mutants will suffer from reduced agility and intelligence, but will have a benefit in the strength and endurance aspects.
Not necessarily, Lexx said ghouls could be made faster, that means, that it is possible to fasten ghouls or mutants (players not mercs). It would be silly to see a Mutant with mauser and honestly, they would do more dmg with unarmed than mauser so new animations are not needed for mutant, as for ghoul, he wouldnt be able to use big guns and its good since I dont think they are animations for ghouls with big guns.
Simply Mutants +unarmed +big guns usage (dunno if boost or not)
Ghouls +PE (maybe?) +Small guns usage (dunno if boost or not)
In compare with the OP post Id rather not intervene with SPECIAL for now, Im just saying it all could be done. And even if fast walking mutant/ghoul would look simply silly and it wouldnt be implemented because of that, then those mutant/ghoul could have some advantages compensating their lack of running...
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Well, you have to admit: there is not much end-game content. I think a quest like this to turn you into a different type of character (and possibly back) would definitely help the game grow.
Again, it's just for fun, not really practical for PvP, etc (but what else is there to do at lvl 21?)
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Not necessarily, Lexx said ghouls could be made faster, that means, that it is possible to fasten ghouls or mutants (players not mercs). It would be silly to see a Mutant with mauser and honestly, they would do more dmg with unarmed than mauser so new animations are not needed for mutant, as for ghoul, he wouldnt be able to use big guns and its good since I dont think they are animations for ghouls with big guns.
There are Ghoul Sprites who can run (The Scavengers). For all other ghouls its NOT possible to just make them run unless you'll paint a few thousand new pictures for them. (just wait for the 3d critters anyway).
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Im just curious... why some of the player want to make new races [ghoul and muti] easy frags on the weastland? No armor, 1 int, no runing - wtf? Imo we should wait to 3d era when muti/ghouls will be able to run and it will be only diffrence of skins. why? Becouse if we boost muti dr/hp/shit know what else - it will not be long before some people will create powerbulds for them. Muti with 400 hp, dr 90% and tesla - Imagine 10 of them playing in tc, nightmare :]
I like the idea of quest to change skin but it should be only diffrence of skins or some mutation bonus [eg +3 str -3 cha] so it would increase some stats above 10 but in the same time make player lost some statistic.
And no fucking potion that change you back to human!
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maybe an experimental anti-FEV drug, which has a 75% chance of deleting your character permanently, as to simulate genetic breakdown.
Would make you hesitate at when your lvl 21 mutie wants to get a human life.
As for human to ghoul, one should only need to go to the glow and die in a fancy irradiated way. To get cured of ghoulism, one has to take the FEV-injection (swim), this has a 50% chance of deleting your character noting the radiated DNA getting obliterated by the virus (for humans to become super mutants there should be a 25% chance of getting deleted) to become a ghoul from a super mutie, that aint gonna happen, you need to risk your ass for the 75% deletion chance of taking the FEV- retrovirus.
of course this could be inmplemented when the SM & Ghoul 3d player models are in, would make for a nice change seeing a SM in CA, or a ghoul in a LJ
Whatcha think?
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Im just curious... why some of the player want to make new races [ghoul and muti] easy frags on the weastland? No armor, 1 int, no runing - wtf? Imo we should wait to 3d era when muti/ghouls will be able to run and it will be only diffrence of skins. why? Becouse if we boost muti dr/hp/shit know what else - it will not be long before some people will create powerbulds for them. Muti with 400 hp, dr 90% and tesla - Imagine 10 of them playing in tc, nightmare :]
I like the idea of quest to change skin but it should be only diffrence of skins or some mutation bonus [eg +3 str -3 cha] so it would increase some stats above 10 but in the same time make player lost some statistic.
And no fucking potion that change you back to human!
No no if anything muties would have high DR but no drugs would affect them... or less... there should be a meat like they are :D That would be funny, but for HtH and some special item wielding would make a big difference in TC, the drawback would be that youd die more often but deal more damage.
There are Ghoul Sprites who can run (The Scavengers). For all other ghouls its NOT possible to just make them run unless you'll paint a few thousand new pictures for them. (just wait for the 3d critters anyway).
Oh so its even better, why wait if this already could work. I mean muties wouldnt run but would have more HP and DR (drugs effect to be discussed) having a possibility to weild some special end game weapon or maybe even craft and weild.
Ghouls running thats nice, theyd be using riffles the most effectively. As I said or Izual and other they could have some bonus to sniping or crit chance or maybe as well some sepcial weapon or simply easier 7.62mm crafting and boost for AR dmg?
Im just saying it all possible to do now, of course with 3D era mutants could run, but really there could be some idea about implementing this sooner than SOON 3D era ;). Of course ghouls scavengers why not :] AFAIK they were using 10mm and pistols? well then they could have boost to their usage. It all needs more brainstorming :) With the 3D era we could think about something different, but lets do it THEN, when well have 3D era :P
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Wait for 3D era, and we'll talk about this again.
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Ghouls and Mutants are cool but I think player ghoul/mutants should be able to run like in Fallout Tactics for obvious reasons.
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why not just lock this thread and bury it, this is obviously not gonna happen until the 3d models are done (god knows when).
and besides, vote for me
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why not just lock this thread and bury it, this is obviously not gonna happen until the 3d models are done (god knows when).
and besides, vote for me
I could live with slow ghoulsmaybe an experimental anti-FEV drug, which has a 75% chance of deleting your character permanently, as to simulate genetic breakdown.
Would make you hesitate at when your lvl 21 mutie wants to get a human life.
As for human to ghoul, one should only need to go to the glow and die in a fancy irradiated way. To get cured of ghoulism, one has to take the FEV-injection (swim), this has a 50% chance of deleting your character noting the radiated DNA getting obliterated by the virus (for humans to become super mutants there should be a 25% chance of getting deleted) to become a ghoul from a super mutie, that aint gonna happen, you need to risk your ass for the 75% deletion chance of taking the FEV- retrovirus.
of course this could be inmplemented when the SM & Ghoul 3d player models are in, would make for a nice change seeing a SM in CA, or a ghoul in a LJ
Whatcha think?
would be easier if we had clones, simply cause more clone failures and they have to use special vats (in their cities.)
Otherwise understanding majority rules, people don't like to get deleted.
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hey, it's their own fault if they want tochange their race from which they begin.
what I meant was on top of the ability to choose race at the start.
yuippie, 1001 posts, i has suceede in breaking the bar.
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The masters lieutenant was pretty smart too.
This is to clarify some things about super mutants and ghouls
Old thread I know but I do have to jump in and say this about super mutants and ghouls, from the fallout bible:
Chris Taylor wrote:
>>Actually, a dip in FEV has a chance of modifying Intelligence, but it doesn't always
increase it. Some people do gain increased intelligence, a larger majority lose intelligence
and most people remain the same. It also depends if people have enough radiation
damage to be turned into ghouls or super mutants.<<
So, usually you just keep your intelligence as it is and at some very few strange cases you get increased intelligence and sometimes you just get more dumb, it's as easy as that. The lieutenant and marcus just kept their normal intelligence I guess, maybe increased it but I think that is unconfirmed since you need info on how they where before.
To become a ghoul you must already be irradiated, otherwise you'll turn into a supermutie.
I'm not sure but it seems that ghouls keep their intelligence somewhat intact, I think their memory is affected a bit (they simply get bad memory :P)
Chris Taylor: Ghouls are a type of mutant.
Super Mutants are humans with no or minimal radiation damage who have been exposed to FEV.
Ghouls are humans with significant radiation damage exposed to FEV.
glowing ghouls are ghouls that suck up too many rads after they have become ghouls.
These are all quotes from the fallout bible and if you want to follow fallout canon keep these quotes in mind :P
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There can't be any new supermutants then since everyone is irradiated. I mean logically the radiation would have ended about 130 years ago but whatever. Either way why is this topic still open?
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Okay... Now I lock this since you guys can't just avoid replying. And I will unlock it in proper era.
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Not necessarily, Lexx said ghouls could be made faster, that means, that it is possible to fasten ghouls or mutants (players not mercs).
Huh, can't remember this. In general, I am totally against speeding up animations, as it looks ugly, if the speeding up critter isn't a small radscorpion.