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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: manero on February 15, 2011, 07:19:33 pm
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Critical hits are too powerful. Nerf it because there is no defense against them(dont tell me about STONELOL) moreover bad PKs use em to kill players and take their stuff!!!!1111oneone And that autoaim och lord... Its definietly not fine as it is.
PS. im serious.
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That's why those nasty hits called "critical", man. Drop your avenger to that pile of other junk and get yourself A Sniper Rifle.
If be serious, criticals will be nerfed, cannot say I'm glad of that.
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Solar allready told you that it will be nerfed too. Maybe you should a beg him please to tell us about their progress or share some info of hows goin and what are they up to. Iam glad to see someone from devs who actually communicate with their community.
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Stop crying criticals aren't THAT powerfull considering you need a specialized build to use them. Without criticals SG sucks, criticals is the only way SG can compete with the firepower of BG.
If there is an anti-critical feature implemented, then I would also like to see an anti-rocket feature implemented LOL. I mean rockets knockdown every time and good dmg every time. I am not complaining I think rockets are fine, just saying it is balanced.
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BG fire power? Yea only rockets burst suck ass :P
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Stop crying criticals aren't THAT powerfull considering you need a specialized build to use them. Without criticals SG sucks, criticals is the only way SG can compete with the firepower of BG.
Actually it does a bit (much) (very much) more than only "compete"
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If i cant convince Solar to boost up big guns(fonline2238 standard-its fine as it is, im not even sure if he red whole topic heh...) i would like him to think about that overpowered critical hits. Because critical hits ARE overpowered. There should be balance beetwen snipers and big gunners but there is not. Nerf it like you nerfed big guns.
Less KOs, less cripple chance, lower multiple damage modificators.
Moreover its VERY easy to get that critical hit. Maybe nerf critical hit chance? Its to easy when should be far harder.
I can accept the fact that today every newbe can hit me by one click for XXX dmg and kd, ko, blind, cripple with autoaim option(nail to the BG coffin) but make it harder from SPECIAL system side! Nerf crit effects or critical hit chance.
And a messege for aForcefulThrust, if u get as many combat chars as i have, i see you are proud of your 15th level sniper, u would be proper person to say that im crying.
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maybe this: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=10882.0
8)
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ahahaha this topic has got to be the biggest joke ever
you must be pretty dumb to think crits are over powered
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The only reason that make me dumb is that im trying to fight for something on this forum...
cannotspace u registered 2 and half months ago, im sure your only char is sniper and im sure that im pretty more experienced about pvp than you, so could u stop calling me dumb? i dont know why im so gentle.
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i 200% agree with Manero, CRITS need to be Nerfed. 10EN StoneWall and 250HP and alt will die in 3 shots from 50hexs. Sniper Rifle is overpower too, its dmg need to be lowered.
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Ah, the usual Manero's "criticals are overpowered, big guns are so nerfed". If Solar didn't change anything it's for a good reason. Also, FOnline is in permanent evolution (on combat side). There always were deep changes along with the updates, so just wait for one that balances game a bit.
I agree though that taking Stonewall should almost prevent you from being knocked down. If you're taking a damn perk, it's not to have 30% less deaths due to knockdowns. I also always hated instant kills. But all this doesn't mean I agree that big guns are toys compared to sniper rifles.
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Heh... few minutes ago in Hinkley arena, my sweet little beast infamous rogue1 was just knocked out/down to pieces. rogue1 is 10end(it used to prevent from ko/kd but nowadays.. ;D) char:
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1663/beztytuurq.png) (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/beztytuurq.png/)
6 shots, 5 criticals( IN HEAD not even in eyes!!!), 2 KO, 2KD... If it would be eyes, damage would be much bigger.
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Ah, the usual Manero's "criticals are overpowered, big guns are so nerfed". If Solar didn't change anything it's for a good reason. Also, FOnline is in permanent evolution (on combat side). There always were deep changes along with the updates, so just wait for one that balances game a bit.
I agree though that taking Stonewall should almost prevent you from being knocked down. If you're taking a damn perk, it's not to have 30% less deaths due to knockdowns. I also always hated instant kills. But all this doesn't mean I agree that big guns are toys compared to sniper rifles.
Do you not thing Manero and DocAn. have a lot more experience than you in PVP / BUILD? It is a beta test, they give feedback, maybe not the best way but they do it. How can you said it is not true crit are to powerfull when must of the build and PVP freak said it?
Must of the people agree crit have to be nerf, now is time to wait the next update and give feed back after.
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Crits are annoying, especially to hands. Almost every hit what i had to hands is "and dropped your weapon"
Dont mention crit to Stonewall ...
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Except from repeating exactly what I said and adding I was wrong, what are you doing Lemark? ;) Also, sorry to express my opinion, if Manero has a lot more experience than me in making builds! (He must've started playing in around... 2008, right?).
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Except from repeating exactly what I said and adding I was wrong, what are you doing Lemark? ;) Also, sorry to express my opinion, if Manero has a lot more experience than me in making builds! (He must've started playing in around... 2008, right?).
Then is definitely something wrong when you just dont see that there is something bad with crits when you play since 2008, and Manero yes
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Then is definitely something wrong when you just dont see that there is something bad with crit
[...] just wait for one that balances game a bit. [...] I agree though that taking Stonewall should almost prevent you from being knocked down. If you're taking a damn perk, it's not to have 30% less deaths due to knockdowns. I also always hated instant kills.
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before of the last actualization you can run and burst you target or take him to the ground with explosion, before of he makes a critical, but now...
this last actualization is just idiot, aimed shots must take time, and now are like any other atak, and burst dont have this mode, so its not just
but criticals still being right
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Allright
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unfortunately im not so experienced in pvp and making build as some guys who playing here since 2008. but i think criticals are fine, really. problem is with other class of pvp characters.. for example big guns, avengers definitely dealing to low dmg. im pretty sure, everyone who playing some pvp can agree with that.
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I dont like the neccessity of taking Stonewall. Without Stonewall, youre pretty screwed on open spaces.
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The builds with stonewall are fine and they can match any sniper 1on1. The problem is that on TC, snipers are more usefull, so their RELATIVE strenght seems bigger.
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Heh i dont know what to say... i wish i could play in 2008 with Izual :'( LOL Anyway you know my opinion and i dont think that precious perks slots filled by anti crits perks would be good way to balance situation.
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Less KOs, less cripple chance, lower multiple damage modificators.
Oh noes! please stop man. You are so accustomed with the past (where BG was the best build by far in pvp) that now, you came here protest about criticals. Realy?
Yeah, nerf critical and also remove finesse together if so. If now it's almost doesn't worth, nerfing critical it will be completely useless.
Stop suggesting things that affects others builds and try suggest something for bgs.
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Oh noes! please stop man. You are so accustomed with the past (where BG was the best build by far in pvp) that now, you came here protest about criticals. Realy?
Yeah, nerf critical and also remove finesse together if so. If now it's almost doesn't worth, nerfing critical it will be completely useless.
Stop suggesting things that affects others builds and try suggest something for bgs.
Old avenger and APs from past ?
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Youkai...
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=13205.0
You even posted in that topic. However that what u wrote was a bunch of nonsenses.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=13205.msg109535#msg109535
Go back to the topic.
Its funny, JUST in this seasion i used to play big guns(T. Manero, Manero, Kokoro, Kasumi, The Rogues), small guns bursts(rogue1), small guns snipers(Demon Hunter, not mine but i used to play on that char) and energy weapons snipers(Montana), tanks(Smerfetka), or even gatling and no one care about my opinions(it reminds me Havoc87 hehehe) I deleted more 21st level chars than a lot of 2238 players have only because were not good enough to use Manero nickname. I think i tested every possible build on this server and u still claim that i just want great big guns only because like em the mosts. Its bullshit. Its just the most shitty pvp weapon category in fonline2238 when it comes to TC or Hinkley. But what can i do, maybe start heavy trolling, get around 1000 posts and than my opinion would be important ;D Like few others...
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So whatthefuck with sniper dude?
Damnit, I choose finesse, 3xmorecrit and bettter only to cripple my enemy. I mean, fuck, this isn't* even a guarantee that all shots will be a critical and come people saying "nerf criticals".... "do less drop weapon".... "do less cripple"... is bullshit.
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I have no idea how is instant kill itself by now. But imo "instant kills" and "critical shot" is two things differents.
*i missed
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Its just the most shitty pvp weapon category in fonline2238 when it comes to TC or Hinkley.
I think that is the problem. Hinkley aside, in TC BGs are weaker (not so usefull) then lets say Reno or some other smallscale pvp 1vs1.
So the question is:
Do want to balance them so they would be better in TC, because most of the pvp is TC now? Or should we let them be, knowing that in other pvp they are fine. I say lets wait for domination and see what are the conditions set by it.
Its funny, i used to play big guns, small guns bursts, small guns snipers and energy weapons snipers, tanks, or even gatling and no one care about my opinions.
Dont worry, we still love ya.
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Youkai, you are just sniper lover not a tester.
Do want to balance them so they would be better in TC, because most of the pvp is TC now? Or should we let them be, knowing that in other pvp they are fine.
Bantz, to be honest... there is no other pvp than TC and Hinkley...
About BG, everything i wanted to say i said in my BG topic.
About critical hits, if Solar thinks big guns are cool as fine as they are, i think critical hits should be nerfed. BUT im not sure if more anti crit perks are good way to nerf crit effects. Where put that additional perks? Instead of BRD? Lifegiver?
Boost big guns and dont touch critical hits OR dont touch big guns and nerf critical hits. 2 ways. Simple.
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Youkai, you are just sniper lover not a tester.
I think I am just a good player, who at least, knows a little bit how is to play as critical sniper.
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LOL
Haters gonna hate ;) If you don't accept posts that disagree with you, I suggest instead of posting a topic you directly PM developers with your... reports...
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I think the builds are fine as they are: open space - sniper wins (as it should), small quarters - bg wins. It's perfectly normal that in a open field a bg should lose vs a sniper. Wich brings up our second problem: most of the pvp wars are in TC, wich means in open space. So, yes, snipers are better in this wipe. But if we think that bg and bursters rulled wasteland until now, I think it is fair that snipers have their turn too.
Balancing classes can't be easy, the specialized snipers actually have low HP, increasing bg weapons damage can bring "1 shoot - 1 kill" back, wich will spoil the game for snipers, like is now spoiled for bg players.
Of course, that is my humble opinion no flame intended. I guess we can only wait and see.
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Haters gonna hate ;) If you don't accept posts that disagree with you, I suggest instead of posting a topic you directly PM developers with your... reports...
I dont know u man so i dont know what are u talking about, u never banned me, few time helped me so why i should hate u? U just made me laugh about that 2008, thats all. Dont take it personally.
Huh my 'ugly' reports...I accept other posts only if that pots contain good arguments. I am bad pk, member of pk gang, 'role play' destroyer and others but im also experienced player and its sad that u suggest such a thing. I thought u should want to talk with such kind of players in public about game mechanic and draw conclusions.
ps. stop trolling Izual, i started to think that u are the one who hate someone.
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in Hinkley
In Hinkley just don't play for BGers, poor BGers can't do anything there if only they score multi crits in a row. Even in close quarters I'm not running away from BGer, I just shooting his eyes with plasma and he's bursting me, we're doing it again and again, and then he's dying even if I was unlucky on crits. Of couse I'm not pure sniper, because of 244 HP + thoughness, but still it's pure luck, sometimes you can instakill, sometimes knock out, sometimes you can crit 5 times in a row and have only multiplied damage with no effects, and your build won't affect these effects, so it's not the case (better critical perk have any sniper), there's too much randomness, but I don't think things like knockout and instakill should work on players at all, such system was created in single player Fallout, where you were alone and they were up to 10 or 15 NPCs against you, they almost never used aimed shots on you and I can remember only knock downs from critical hits in torso or groin. So shooting thier eyes was possible if you focus on weapon skill (not science/repair/etc) giving to you power critical shots that kills NPCs with 1-2 shots. Right now knock out almost equal instakill, if blindness or crippling can be avoided by docing yourself, knocking out is the same as if your internet provider lagged for a long time, you're just lying on ground and can't do anything, it should be much less time that it's now, may be 2 or 3 seconds max., after that you should be restored. Instakills should be simply removed, and it's obvious, it's MMO, where're alot players, he came there to play, but he died with 1st shot only because that guy rolled good crit with his deteriorated mauser? And about damage, armor bypass is almost equal if your target was a bluesuiter! Is it ok? May be quality of armor should give bonus to safethrow against bypass and work like anti-crit, so if you're in jacket of couse it'll be easier to bypass your armor, while BA will give good protection against it.
Also BG and SG/EW should be nerfed, they both killing too fast and it doesn't bring fun to game. Or alteast make armor more work like armor than decoration of your character, providing more defence against criticals and bypassing.
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Why don't play BG? Because he suxx balls? So why he suxx balls? Maybe because is nerfed to max? Why he is nerfed to max? For balance? What balance if he is useless? Whoaa, there is no balance ingame? Yeah!
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And one more thing, i reported my conclusions about Hinkley to Solar via PM around 3-4 months ago. But didnt get answer. What a pity...
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I've played the whole wipe with crit pistolero. I'd say crits aren't overpowered but too unpredictable. I've died multiple times because of wrong crit even though I shot first but also won fights because of undeserved luck. Crits require more reliability and less over the top effects.
Fighting especially bursters is pretty easy, you can take distance or hide behind npcs and their damage is reduced dramatically. I like it that players can affect their chances to win with ingame actions, but the same rule doesn't apply to crits. Only thing that can be done is to turn away to prevent eyecrits but it's a bit retarded and headcrits can cause awful damage and knockouts aswell.
I think the builds are fine as they are: open space - sniper wins (as it should), small quarters - bg wins. It's perfectly normal that in a open field a bg should lose vs a sniper.
It's not that simple. Sniper can quickly shoot instant eyeshot against a big gunner even from point blank. But big gunner can't do much in longer range.
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I think the builds are fine as they are: open space - sniper wins (as it should), small quarters - bg wins.
Yes, it should be as you said, BUT current situation is different.
Do you think that single two burst big gunner can destroy two small guns with 223 pistol in some small building ? If you think yes, so answer is no. He cant. Because bypasses or by weapon drop(crippled hands)
Just try some team test when you will have one BG against two small gunners with max crit. You'll see
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Huh my 'ugly' reports...
Your sight of BG/SG is a decent one, but you are discrediting it with making a humoristic first post of three lines. You posted a picture of critical hits logs in Hinkley, why didn't you put a similar thing in your first post, together with your arguments and opinions? What I am saying is that it'll be much easier to argue about the game, and to debate about needed changes if reports were made in a serious way, instead of posting the topic and then starting to debate. So yes, even if your point is valid and your posts serious and valuable, your first post is still, as you said, ugly.
@topic: I think both Youkai and Manero have valid points. The problem isn't that Snipers are too powerful, the problem is that you have no way to resist to these criticals. Improving Stonewall and removing Instant Kills might help to balance a bit. On another subject, I think big guns could welcome some damage boost, but also as a drawback a range nerf. It would be nonsense if minigunners were able to kill you at 35 hex, in a world where 50 hex is the max range. Big guns should be tremendous, yes, but at 20 hex max (except for some like LSW/M60, which are fine as they are). If I sum up, that's my ideas : improving criticals resistances (f.e. Stonewall), nerfing a bit miniguns range, improving all Big Guns' damage (And I would personally like the flamer's range to be upgraded).
Edit: Also I forgot, adding "scoped" perk to all sniping rifles, so that finally they stop being as deadly at one hex as they are at fifty.
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Do you think that single two burst big gunner can destroy two small guns with 223 pistol in some small building ? If you think yes, so answer is no. He cant. Because bypasses or by weapon drop(crippled hands)
"Do you think that single two burst big gunner can destroy two small guns with 223 pistol in some small building ?"
Maybe???
Try the inverse now: Do you think single SG with 223 pistol can destroy two BGs with lsw/avenger im some small building?
Worst argument until now. :-\
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Also, considering that crippler char needs to cripple twice, as we know, every pvp char have skill Doctor.
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"Do you think that single two burst big gunner can destroy two small guns with 223 pistol in some small building ?"
Maybe???
Try the inverse now: Do you think single SG with 223 pistol can destroy two BGs with lsw/avenger im some small building?
Worst argument until now. :-\
[edit~]
Also, considering that crippler char needs to cripple twice, as we know, every pvp char have skill Doctor.
Worst argument ever ? In small space, who should win ? SG or BG ? If you know answer, then not mine, but your example was bad ...
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The problem isn't that Snipers are too powerful, the problem is that you have no way to resist to these criticals.
I agree. However ways to resist for example bursts are 1: hide behind npc 2: take distance so that enemy has more spread. These are both great ingame features because they are player's actions. If the resistance comes from character build like perks, it will just encourage minmaxing and making powerful builds rather than playing smart in the actual combat situation. In addition buffing or nerfing perks and builds just leads to what's been going on since ever: builds rise and fall, no actual progress is made regarding how pvp rolls.
Best way in my opinion would be to add more features that players can use to achieve victory. In other words: more micro.
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One idea to boost BG without making them OP: change spread... Low spread at beginning, with higher spread at end. Let's say at least 1/2 of bullets on central path until 20 hex, 1/3 at 30 (like now) and 1/4 at 35 (with progress between each obviously). Playing minigunner would be a constant control of your optimal range: slaughter in small rooms, normal efficence a med range, low efficience at max range.
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I don't want to nerf Criticals themselves. I think the tables are fine as they are now. They hurt, but then getting shot by an Avenger with no Armour on will hurt too.
How they will be toned down is through armour and different perks.
I think we need a new attribute for the armours, reusing something like AC or DR directly isn’t too good. But this attribute would then minus off from the crit chance.
For example a CA, if it had CM (crit minus) of 25, then shooting at the torso with 10 luck, 3* more crits and finesse would be 10+15+10-25 = 10% instead of 35%. (Just random numbers for now, theres no saying CA will be 25.)
You can even have separate helmets, so that aiming to head and eyes can be mitigated by wearing helmets.
In terms of the perks, there should be lots of new ones (Including a lower level of BRD that gives an extra 1, for a total of +5 – a boost to BG)
A quote from the (semi) WIP perks:
Anti Crit
Quick Recovery 3 AG 6 Effects of Knockout/down/lost turn are reduced to 1/3rd 1
Stonewall 6 ST 6 En Roll to ignore knockout, En-5 roll to ignore knockdown 1
Iron Grip 9 ST 6 En Roll to ignore Arm Cripple, En-5 roll to ignore Weapon Drop 1
Man of Steel 12 En 6 + Str 6 Gives -10 on the critical table to hits targetting you 1
I should really put some leg protecting perk in there too.
Or, since you need higher skill to be a sniper, dodging should be better against snipers than against the BG too:
Dodging
HtH Evade 3 Unarmed/Melee 75% Gives 20% AC if only Unarmed or Melee weapons are in either hand 1
HtH Evade+ 6 Unarmed/Melee 150% Gives 40% AC if only Unarmed or Melee weapons are in either hand 1
Dodger 9 AG 8 Gives +20 to AC 1
Dodger+ 12 AG 10 Gives +40 to AC 1
I would really prefer to balance them by adding more depth to the char design system … rather than just altering crit tables or adding a little to the Avenger.
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In terms of the perks, there should be lots of new ones (Including a lower level of BRD that gives an extra 1, for a total of +5 – a boost to BG)
Good to hear, yeah.
And what mean this with BRD ? So we still should be able to take 2x BRD and it will have more +dmg ? Or u just didnt understand what you meant with it
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BRD I = +1
BRD II = +2
BRD III = +2
Total = +5
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How they will be toned down is through armour and different perks.
This will only lead to minmaxing.
What is worrying here is that players can make anti-x builds meaning that when someone plays build x and encounters anti-x build, he basically stands no chance. That's not very good designing. It's good designing in team game, but not in fonline because we are not always with our team.
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No avv, I think you can of course specialize against sniper crits, but also take one perk to prevent arms criticals, take one to be tougher against big guns, etc... So you can be upper average against everyone instead of being tremendous against only a particular weapon type.
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That's up to the player to decide. If hes playing a loner don't over specialise either in your offensive or defensive perks. General chars are perfectly possible (As Izual has pointed out whilst I was typing).
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We will have only +1 dmg boost to BRD ? So 3 levels of BRD will give us +5 instead of 4 ?
So with level cap 21 there will remain only 4 perks, where on level 3l you can take perk as toughness or awareness or another almost useless perks. So only 3 will remain ...
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about nerfing BG range - zomg no!
with 35 i feel almost like a kid in the dark with 30 ill be just blind... Notice that shot from max range 35 does crappy dmg couse of spread so dont nerf it.
I agree with Holo about those 3 levels of BRD its a step backward for bigguners. 3 perks to spend for +5dmg ? now its 2 perks for 4dmg. 1 perk is a lot!
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But you admit that pure counter-classes will emerge and situations where player pwns another mainly because he just happens to counter that build will happen? So doesn't this encourage players to alt and choose the right alt for correct situations in tc and domination? FE: intelligence says enemy packs big gunners, "wait a moment ill log in my anti-bg class".
In my opinion players should always have equal chances to defeat each other when both are lvl 21. Builds only determine the style, not chances to win. But if that's not supposed to be the case in fonline, it's ok. But still, having counter builds just encourages alting.
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One thing I must agree is about "nerf instant kills". Is not rare anymore like in the begining. Is common now and yes, is annoying.
But please, do not involve the whole criticals effects table. >:(
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So with level cap 21 there will remain only 4 perks, where on 3 level you can take perk as toughness or awareness. So only 3 will remain ...
This is why i think anti crit perks are not a solution.
3-stonewall/toughness, 6-brd(+1 shit... ; /), 9-brd(+2 as normal), 12-lifegiver(every big gunner need at least one lifegiver), 15-brd(if 2 brd gives +4dmg atm and minigun suxx we would have to take 3rd BRD), 18-iron grip, 21-man of steel
No place for critical perks like more or better crits which use Rocket Launcher build so it should be solution for minigunners but i dont think minigunner without BROF and high agi and action points(no place for action boys) is good.
Moreover that three levels of BRD are better for SG bursters than Miniguners because SG bursters dont need for example Iron Grip(instead of that i would take second Lifegiver) and can take 3rd level of BRD easily ;) Beware of p90 hehe... Minigun would still suxx.
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Solar quoted just a very tiny part of whole perk rework. So stonewall might change (in terms of lvl required, special) as well as lifegiver. As was already pointed, its up to player what perks will he choose and what "profession" one the battlefield will he fullfil. You cant have both high crit, high dps, best anti-crit ... and so on.
I think we need a new attribute for the armours, reusing something like AC or DR directly isn’t too good. But this attribute would then minus off from the crit chance.
This is indeed good idea, reminds me resillience from WoW.
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One thing I must agree is about "nerf instant kills". Is not rare anymore like in the begining. Is common now and yes, is annoying.
But please, do not involve the whole criticals effects table. >:(
Instant kills rare in the beginning? Dude, you probably haven't see how "rare" were instantkills in the beginning (1st, 2nd session)...
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Actually, I was thinking you could go past level 21 with a reformed HP formula, so that you have more HP to begin with, equal HP on level 21 and then gain less HP per level than you would now - so you don't get huge HP but you get access to more perks.
However I would want there to be more desirable perks than you have slots for - it should be a tough descision and you must always regret not being able to take something.
An extra +1 BRD is a choice - don't like it, take something else - other BRD would be exaclty like now so you lose nothing :P
Insta kills have been the same leve for a very long time (2 wipes now?) - anything changing is purely you thinking it.
Avv, if classes are that countering (they wouldnt be) then it would be a matter of mixing your team properly - in a similar way a loner must mix their char.
Rascal, not sure where you are getting any range changes from - only thing I'm thinking of changing is Plasma and Xl70 ... both of those increasing.
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Mmmh... So basically, all short range fighters will need 6ST (SG bursters will have to waste some SPECIAL! Same goes for energy tank!). And we will have to give up damage perks to have some protections. Not sure if good...
And BTW, is BRD I needed to have BRDII? So with only 2 damage perks you have +3dmg?
Well it will require something like few months of intensive testing with many (and often I hope) rebalances.
PS: 7 perks is goddamn not enough, with limitations of first levels.
Edit: Removed what have been answered while I was typing ;p
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Instant kills rare in the beginning? Dude, you probably haven't see how "rare" were instantkills in the beginning (1st, 2nd session)...
Of course, when I said "in the begining", I was with 3rd season in mind. ;)
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On the subject of those anti-crit perks, I can't help but wonder if removing the stat (not skill) requirements for perks would make character builds a bit more varied and interesting.
To put it another way, do you think stat requirements for perks lead to more or less diverse character builds? Or would it just lead to more extreme minmaxing? I don't know the answer, but I'd be interested to try.
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Somethings need to be changed about critical hits, that is for sure.
1- Armors should offer protection against crits.
2- If not removed, maximum hit chance for the eyes location should be reduced (from 95% to 75-80% for exemple).
3- Insta kill must be removed, they are really annoying and appart frustrations, i really dont see what they bring to the game.
4- Locations critical chances should be lowered (95% critical chances in the eyes is too much).
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Of course, when I said "in the begining", I was with 3rd season in mind. ;)
Insta kill has only ever been decreased.
On the subject of those anti-crit perks, I can't help but wonder if removing the stat (not skill) requirements for perks would make character builds a bit more varied and interesting.
To put it another way, do you think stat requirements for perks lead to more or less diverse character builds? Or would it just lead to more extreme minmaxing? I don't know the answer, but I'd be interested to try.
Requirements are pretty much just what mood I was in when I did those, they weren't really ready for posting, but I thought I might aswell have a talk about what I was up to.
I personally favour lower reqs. Maybe they'd get so low you didn't need any SPECIAL reqs at all :/
Somethings need to be changed about critical hits, that is for sure.
1- Armors should offer protection against crits.
2- If not removed, maximum hit chance for the eyes location should be reduced (from 95% to 75-80% for exemple).
3- Insta kill must be removed, they are really annoying and appart frustrations, i really dont see what they bring to the game.
4- Locations critical chances should be lowered (95% critical chances in the eyes is too much).
All of those except the insta kill would be fixed by a Crit Mod factor on armours and helmets. Insta kill is in the originals, its so low of a chance - and with extra options to make it even more rare - that I don't think completely taking away something that was in the originals is needed.
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I personally favour lower reqs. Maybe they'd get so low you didn't need any SPECIAL reqs at all :/
Looking at the perks table (http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Perks) I can't see anything that would be incredibly gamebreaking if it was accessible to everyone of that level, or nearly everyone. To prevent the absolutely ridiculous, like a 1 IN char taking educated, the perk requirements for everything potentially be halved. So instead of 6 IN you'd need 3. Although, part of me thinks that if someone can make a halfway decent character with 1 IN and Educated, good luck to them.
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I dont agree with removing perk requirements. Face it, we got good perks and bad perks. Good perks such as BROF or BC require high SPECIAL, while bad perks (Explorer...) require none. Without requirements, all would just pick good perks and never ever bother to pick worse, because they wouldnt be forced to do that. Requirements add diversity in creating character and Id like to see this trend in new perks.
Actually, I was thinking you could go past level 21 with a reformed HP formula, so that you have more HP to begin with, equal HP on level 21 and then gain less HP per level than you would now - so you don't get huge HP but you get access to more perks.
This is another bad concept imo. Less perks means more variety in builds. I can see it on new servers that rose after releasing SDK. Characters have 10+ perks and there is almost no difference between them. Everyone has everything, even sniper and big gunner have the same perks.
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This is another bad concept imo. Less perks means more variety in builds. I can see it on new servers that rose after releasing SDK. Characters have 10+ perks and there is almost no difference between them. Everyone has everything, even sniper and big gunner have the same perks.
You're wrong. It's because these server have 10 total perks at level cap, but only 10 "good" perks! So obviously, everyone have the same... With what Solar is showing us, if there are, let's say, 4 crits perks, 5 anti crit, 2 resistances perks, 2 Hp perks, 3 DPS perks, 2 AC perks, or even more, more perks slots will also allow more combinations, specialized fighetrs or more general ones.
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Well, you get tied into specific builds with high requirements. You must have BRoF, so you must meet those requirements and so builds already have parameters within which they must be. If they are relaxed then you can get whichever perks you want and have flexibility on SPECIAL. What you need for this to work is lots of desirable perks.
I was actually thinking of level 24 ... so 8 perks (well, 14 really, but thats another story :P) and so 2 full "trees".
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24 level would be good, more hp + 1 more perk
~30-50 more hp can make battles a bit longer. Or maybe even 27 level ;o
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You're wrong. It's because these server have 10 total perks at level cap, but only 10 "good" perks! So obviously, everyone have the same... With what Solar is showing us, if there are, let's say, 4 crits perks, 5 anti crit, 2 resistances perks, 2 Hp perks, 3 DPS perks, 2 AC perks, or even more, more perks slots will also allow more combinations, specialized fighetrs or more general ones.
Yeah, thats another way how to balance things, to add lot of useful perks. But as long as there will be important perks, such as lifegiver, BC for snipers, BRD for big gunners and BROF for both, you wouldnt have much choice over the rest of perks.
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Yeah, they are "must take" perks, the truth is there wont be many good builds when only 2-3 perks are free to choose.
Maybe More Criticals available in 3 level. Because toughness / awereness is the only choice on this level..
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i hate that insta kill thing you cant hit a 9999999999 to an enclave guard at the spawn with a punch
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Just when you will add those anti-crit perks and Crit Modifiers, please think about BG Bazooka sniper, that can become unkillable/unstoppable (high range, high damage, hard to blind, hard to cripple, high hp (-10 crit tables = way less dmg for snipers, + additional lvl's = even more hp, while BG sniper will still only need like 2 shots to kill everyone w/o any crit perks or whatever)
You could just make KD be lower chance, and make perks that will split snipers into 2 builds.. crippler or crit hitter, so you can be crippler but do way less dmg than crit hitter, with lowered chance of arms crippling, or crit hitter = way less chance to cripple, but higher dmg.
So you would need to decide if you want to be crippler, have more chance to cripple but less crit dmg (BG will live longer and have a chance to do dmg/kill before he cripples you)
or crit hitter, way less chance to cripple but you do more dmg when you crit, so if you are lucky, you will kill bg faster then he will kill you. BG's will have more chance he won't get crippled arm so he can fire at you more, and kill you faster than sniper, because sniper could be unlucky.
You could make new perks for BG so he can decide if he wants to get less KD or less Arm/Body Cripples, just remember to not remove them totally. So like 2/4 new perks so BG can decide that he takes this one, and will get like 20% less chance of crippled arms/body parts, but it reduces his DR or whatever so he will get more dmg from crit hits (eg. +2% to opponents Crit Table)
Or he can take 2nd perk = less crit chance/crit dmg, but higher cripple chance.
You really have to think about this because otherwise you will make a way for unstoppable/unkillable BG tanks (high HP, best armors = almost no crits dmg, cripples, + anti-crit perks)
I also think that there should be more useful perks on 3rd lvl, because now it's only like 70% awarness and 30% thoughness, there should be something as good as awarness so people won't see info about player but will get something different which is as good as awarness. This would make fighting more based on real skill of choosing opponents etc. 'coz not everyone would run with Awarness, and wouln't know about armor or weapon or hp.
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oh boo-friggedy-hoo...."waaaaaaah! my big gunner now has to actually has to take damage before i shred some noob with kill-o-death burst...waaaaaaaah!" a sniper needs to bust ass to get to a point where he can do real damage and MAYBE get out alive...where as you people can throw a few points into bg, stock up on toughness/lifegiver/etc and go grief noobs....for the amount of things that MUST go right for the sniper to even have a shot, i think they deserve devastating crits. a glass-cannon is useless without the "cannon" part! I might be bitter, but it seems to me the BG build is synonomous with "i want to pk..but i dont actually want to put any effort into it..if its NOT one-sided, then i dont want to do it!"
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oh boo-friggedy-hoo...."waaaaaaah! my big gunner now has to actually has to take damage before i shred some noob with kill-o-death burst...waaaaaaaah!" a sniper needs to bust ass to get to a point where he can do real damage and MAYBE get out alive...where as you people can throw a few points into bg, stock up on toughness/lifegiver/etc and go grief noobs....for the amount of things that MUST go right for the sniper to even have a shot, i think they deserve devastating crits. a glass-cannon is useless without the "cannon" part! I might be bitter, but it seems to me the BG build is synonomous with "i want to pk..but i dont actually want to put any effort into it..if its NOT one-sided, then i dont want to do it!"
Eh... You know that the real pvp starts at 21 lvl? When all the powerbuilds are maxed out? Both snipers and bursters?
And on that point, BG is almost useless comparing to snipers and their criticals.
But maybe you don't understand it at all. I bet you never saw ONE town control fight. No serious PvP. You were just one of those poor bluesuits with <100hp who got bursted in the wasteland and shred into pieces in no time, first to say "OMG I got killed, nerf it!".
I wish you understood that only people at your level(not ingame level, but your knowledge about the game) will agree and look at the problem from your point of view.
Poor, defenseless bluesuit.
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"waaaaaaah! my big gunner now has to actually has to take damage before i shred some noob with kill-o-death burst...waaaaaaaah!...
"the BG build is synonomous with "i want to pk..but i dont actually want to put any effort into it...
It's about game balance, not a frivolous matter of "pkers".
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Cant you join some perks together and keep the stat requirements? make it abit easier to get them without everyone being able to have them.
IE stonewall + quick recovery = Stunt double ( both effects )
That would also be a way to make some crappier ones like add explorer into survivalist, it'll make the game have alot less perks because the super crap ones are joined with the maybe/specialized ones.
Was just thinking that'll make the choices when lvling abit tougher instead of everyone having toughness x2 / BROF etc.
Of course these are just examples.
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It's about game balance, not a frivolous matter of "pkers".
while i decided to use an (admitedly) immature approach to my posting...if you look at the underlying theme, you will notice my post was predominately about balance... yes..criticals are devastating, YET! like i believe i mentioned in my previous post, (which seems to have been edited in your and floodnick's mind to being nothing more then the cries of an angry noob who lost a radscorpion tail,) all sniper builds i have researched appear to sacrifice Hp and damage threshold perks like toughness, to acquire the damage that you cry is unbalanced. No eyeshot blinds 100% of the time....and while the aim shot is taking place, that gives the bg character(correct me if i'm wrong) ample time to move into position and unleash a rocket, m60 burst, etc...now...if that doesnt instantly kill the char, (highly possible...) the sniper/crit char is then locked into a "stick and move" strategy, juggling praying for the crippling shot to save his life, healiing, reloading, and various other actions that one must engage in a real time pvp fight. Now, i will admit my expirence is limited to a 1v1 fight. I will thank you to actually read the posting next time before resorting to the same knee-jerk reactions that permiated my orginal posting. I mean...you dont ACTUALLY want to sound like a "poor, poor defenseless bluesuit" do you?
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All perks will be reworked upon the wipe. There will be quite big changes.
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I think we need a new attribute for the armours, reusing something like AC or DR directly isn’t too good. But this attribute would then minus off from the crit chance.
For example a CA, if it had CM (crit minus) of 25, then shooting at the torso with 10 luck, 3* more crits and finesse would be 10+15+10-25 = 10% instead of 35%. (Just random numbers for now, theres no saying CA will be 25.)
You can even have separate helmets, so that aiming to head and eyes can be mitigated by wearing helmets.
Laser snipers will be doomed ::).
Generally I like these changes though.
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Actually, I was thinking you could go past level 21 with a reformed HP formula, so that you have more HP to begin with, equal HP on level 21 and then gain less HP per level than you would now - so you don't get huge HP but you get access to more perks.
However I would want there to be more desirable perks than you have slots for - it should be a tough descision and you must always regret not being able to take something.
An extra +1 BRD is a choice - don't like it, take something else - other BRD would be exaclty like now so you lose nothing :P
Insta kills have been the same leve for a very long time (2 wipes now?) - anything changing is purely you thinking it.
Avv, if classes are that countering (they wouldnt be) then it would be a matter of mixing your team properly - in a similar way a loner must mix their char.
Rascal, not sure where you are getting any range changes from - only thing I'm thinking of changing is Plasma and Xl70 ... both of those increasing.
Teh best post in this thread :) More perks with the same hp amount that is genius.
Actually if you look now players always have to make a tough decision for what perks to take , if you add more perks and if the players can get +1 in total it would be the same.
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Why don't play BG? Because he suxx balls? So why he suxx balls? Maybe because is nerfed to max? Why he is nerfed to max? For balance? What balance if he is useless? Whoaa, there is no balance ingame? Yeah!
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And one more thing, i reported my conclusions about Hinkley to Solar via PM around 3-4 months ago. But didnt get answer. What a pity...
Manero i am sorry and i might get banned for this but i do not really care, first of all i must say ur a crying whining bitch. second of all u are deffenatly a noob. Third of all it is open beta things are being tested, do u think snipers were so powerfull 2 wipes ago? no wait a second u havent even played 2 years ago. Dont start jumping with acussations and suggestions without knowing the whole story. I for once have alot of complaints about the game every wipe, and every wipe there is something else, but the devs and gm's.... not "whining lili bitchz like u" they are the ones who acually made the game better and repair everyproblem. Bg's were way overpowered last time i played which was a year ago. Now they made a small balance in beetween SG and BG. I think it is great that players can acually pick beetween a SG pvp and BG pvp character. Before we all picked BG drugged up buffed out monster and everybody would spray across the map until every 1 was dead. Now there is more strategie. I am not saying the snipers were useless back in the day, but in this era they have an upper hand in some situations just like in real life... i am sorry if my post showed alot of emotions and flames on this guy, i need to have a ciggarete... its just hearing all this complaning in EVERY fuckin post just makes me mad ur like my fuckin wife nun is ever perfect for you.... lil girls
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blabla
dude... you are telling that you picked avengers for 10k price which fire 500 caps with each burst, also buffed yourself with drugs for like 2k caps some wipes ago, as you do pick now hunting rifle for 600 caps and which fires 12 caps with each shot and own the same in both cases, and you find it equal? Now most players would be banned for telling true opinion about such players like you, at least dont talk bullshit if you know nothing.
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All perks will be reworked upon the wipe. There will be quite big changes.
So that we can expect some no-minder perks to be nerfed?
Right now there is barelly anything without at least one lifegiver, and everyone who can do called shots needs to pickup better criticals.
I'm just wondering if changes will be towards freedom of choice or rather just rebalancing current builds to yield rougly the same value.
So you would need to decide if you want to be crippler, have more chance to cripple but less crit dmg (BG will live longer and have a chance to do dmg/kill before he cripples you)
or crit hitter, way less chance to cripple but you do more dmg when you crit, so if you are lucky, you will kill bg faster then he will kill you. BG's will have more chance he won't get crippled arm so he can fire at you more, and kill you faster than sniper, because sniper could be unlucky.
I'm not sure about Fonline crit tables, but in original crippling was usualy based on luck or endurance rolls.
Creating a perk or trait that would reduce enemy luck and endurance for these rolls while perhaps reducing crit damage modifier or something, would be really nice way to touch things.
Another thing might be to add such weapon perks, which could be even more fun :)
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dude... you are telling that you picked avengers for 10k price which fire 500 caps with each burst, also buffed yourself with drugs for like 2k caps some wipes ago, as you do pick now hunting rifle for 600 caps and which fires 12 caps with each shot and own the same in both cases, and you find it equal? Now most players would be banned for telling true opinion about such players like you, at least dont talk bullshit if you know nothing.
Yes vederas i am saying we have used bg with all its precious ammo, i never saw u pvping some time ago only hanginig around ncr talking to noobs... king of the wasteland as i remember u spamming and trolling every 2 seconds and shouting in ncr????? so dont talk shit i helped u raise ur rep skilll a year ago u fuckin noob.... i still do not understand what u mean by "now hunting rifle for 600 caps and which fires 12 caps with each shot " 223 ammo was never cheap or easily obtained... bg's ammo was fuckin ridiculously precious as it is now... but i was not talking about the money situation i was talking about PVP chrs... which u obviusly have no idea about.
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And one more thing there was way more bugs and ways to make money, i remeber the T-ray bug where u could make 50 k every 5 minutes, the ammo was not a problem nor was the armor for some factions, but the sitution remained the same there was rarely a sniper pvp chr. If u do not agree with me join with the rest of the punks at the back of the line.
Sorry for the double post.
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Teh best post in this thread :) More perks with the same hp amount that is genius.
Should be a really good update and I am looking forward to it very much 8).
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Manero i am sorry and i might get banned for this but i do not really care, first of all i must say ur a crying whining bitch. second of all u are deffenatly a noob. Third of all it is open beta things are being tested, do u think snipers were so powerfull 2 wipes ago? no wait a second u havent even played 2 years ago. Dont start jumping with acussations and suggestions without knowing the whole story. I for once have alot of complaints about the game every wipe, and every wipe there is something else, but the devs and gm's.... not "whining lili bitchz like u" they are the ones who acually made the game better and repair everyproblem. Bg's were way overpowered last time i played which was a year ago. Now they made a small balance in beetween SG and BG. I think it is great that players can acually pick beetween a SG pvp and BG pvp character. Before we all picked BG drugged up buffed out monster and everybody would spray across the map until every 1 was dead. Now there is more strategie. I am not saying the snipers were useless back in the day, but in this era they have an upper hand in some situations just like in real life... i am sorry if my post showed alot of emotions and flames on this guy, i need to have a ciggarete... its just hearing all this complaning in EVERY fuckin post just makes me mad ur like my fuckin wife nun is ever perfect for you.... lil girls
;D ;D Funny ...
I bet that you play more that 5 years right ? Also, whos you that youre calling others "bitch" ?
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;D ;D Funny ...
I bet that you play more that 5 years right ? Also, whos you that youre calling others "bitch" ?
I am sorry i do not speak your language only english..... I never said ive been playing for too long i think i started in 4th month of 2009, when these forums werent even open we all used NMA. I have giving lecturing speeches as i am not so good at them becuase i easily get mad. I am just not happy with somebody complaining about small guns and crits that need to be nerfed. For once a small gun chr has a chance against a bg, and again people bitch... and by bitch i dont mean slut i mean complain......
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I am sorry i do not speak your language only english..... I never said ive been playing for too long i think i started in 4th month of 2009, when these forums werent even open we all used NMA. I have giving lecturing speeches as i am not so good at them becuase i easily get mad. I am just not happy with somebody complaining about small guns and crits that need to be nerfed. For once a small gun chr has a chance against a bg, and again people bitch... and by bitch i dont mean slut i mean complain......
Yeah, Small gunner with 223 pistol can easily kill big gunner with 2 burst in row in small room. It is allright ? Do you think that yes ?
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It's not THAT easy, but still possible...
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For me crit tabels is ok, most snaipers got 'finesse' trait so its mean they have huge chance to shot whit critical but this critical dont mean it's gona be good dmg...
Snaiper Rifle have good dmg only whit bypass but have a lot of blinde (make dmg 100+ its rarely).
For me personally its should be some small boost for Snaiper like dmg: 19-34 or even 20-34.
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I don't who is that idiot , but small balance ? SG counters BG and everyone knows that , he obviously don't know shit what is he talking about.
It's the rock/paper/scissor triangle , SG mostly beats BG , BG mostly beats Leader Mercs but Leader Mercs counter SG. The problem is you are most likely to encounter a sniper than a leader merc. How do you balance that ? I believe BG needs better odds against SG. There are many ways how to accomplish that you can nerf SG or boost BG , or add new perks , or new " mechanics" ( or any of these variations mentioned) for example like solar said that AC could interfere with opponents crit chance.
Now the million dollar question is how to balance , not what to balance ?
Even Solar cannot be certain , because many Solar posts contain words like might/i think/should/I believe/could etc. etc. , those words do not express certainty.
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kiki i started in september 2009. anyway u made me laugh and i dont care about your insults. that was funny ;) you are the one who is pro gammer here hehe...
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Even Solar cannot be certain , because many Solar posts contain words like might/i think/should/I believe/could etc. etc. , those words do not express certainty.
Until its in the game, there is always the possibility I can change my mind - so I don't generally say "It will be" because it might then change to be something else. Perks for example have undergone several reforms since I first thought they were finished.
Anyway, hopefully we will have more build types than SG/BG/Leader post wipe, but we shall see.
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For me crit tabels is ok, most snaipers got 'finesse' trait so its mean they have huge chance to shot whit critical but this critical dont mean it's gona be good dmg...
It mean that in 8/10 cases you will get crit which cripple/blind/"your weapon was dropped" you. Do you understand it ? Do you understand how stupid it is when you are in small room with Big gunner and cant fight because you dont have weapon ? BG must be superior in small quarters
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Now the million dollar question is how to balance , not what to balance ?
Make some test to balance CBT, people gona be testing pvp weapon's, DR, Ammo mod,weapon dmg, mostly for BG and Laser's becouse why we cant play in pvp of course whit some good results Gatling?
If someone gonna play whit modification for Gatling( Dmg mod,perk for gatling,or Dr armor) it will be more option to play on pvp.
And yes BG need's some boost like some time ago, Avenger will be hit for huge hp's and snaiper gonna survive two burst's becouse it should be!
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but i was not talking about the money situation i was talking about PVP chrs...
Dude, its not that hard to reason and understand that if you have stuff in game that cost for example 10 times the amount of some other stuff, it should be better in battles of that game. Before what we had? 1) More expensive stuff was better. 2) Now cheaper is. So personally you, which of these 2 situations do you find more right? Current situation is completely wrong. You want to talk about pvp chars, but actually they almost didint change at all, only the weapon statistics did, which led to current situation.
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Dude, its not that hard to reason and understand that if you have stuff in game that cost for example 10 times the amount of some other stuff, it should be better in battles of that game. Before what we had? 1) More expensive stuff was better. 2) Now cheaper is. So personally you, which of these 2 situations do you find more right? Current situation is completely wrong. You want to talk about pvp chars, but actually they almost didint change at all, only the weapon statistics did, which led to current situation.
lmfao weapon stats changed that is the whole point of my conversation not money not characters but weapons and crits.
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Dude, its not that hard to reason and understand that if you have stuff in game that cost for example 10 times the amount of some other stuff, it should be better in battles of that game. Before what we had? 1) More expensive stuff was better. 2) Now cheaper is. So personally you, which of these 2 situations do you find more right? Current situation is completely wrong. You want to talk about pvp chars, but actually they almost didint change at all, only the weapon statistics did, which led to current situation.
If expensive weapons equal automatic superiority in pvp, we're going to have less pvp because many players don't want to participate because they can't afford it.
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If expensive weapons equal automatic superiority in pvp, we're going to have less pvp because many players don't want to participate because they can't afford it.
Dont take it so plain. If we compare avenger 10k price + 500 burst price with sniper rifle 5k price with 12 caps shot price, then i would think of situation being balanced if avenger would have 60-65% to win and 35-40% to lose. Now avenger has even bigger chance to lose this is completely wrong :> And talking about economic situation i dont remember any session where players could not afford something :>
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Dont take it so plain. If we compare avenger 10k price + 500 burst price with sniper rifle 5k price with 12 caps shot price, then i would think of situation being balanced if avenger would have 60-65% to win and 35-40% to lose. Now avenger has even bigger chance to lose this is completely wrong :> And talking about economic situation i dont remember any session where players could not afford something :>
You do have a point there vederas....
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It mean that in 8/10 cases you will get crit which cripple/blind/"your weapon was dropped" you. Do you understand it ? Do you understand how stupid it is when you are in small room with Big gunner and cant fight because you dont have weapon ? BG must be superior in small quarters
That just isn't the case.
About weapon prices, they are all just the old ones from last wipe. There has been a lot of changes to the weapon stats without anything being done about their pricing because their final balance hadn't been decided and I wasn't going to redo their crafting each time I wanted to change one thing. I've said this on many occasions.
Also during that time I have been trying to squeeze the weapons closer together so that a tech advanatge doesn't equate to an auto win, so things will naturally end up costing more similar amounts too when they are repriced (which will also be happening on the wipe).
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That just isn't the case.
What isn't what case? It is true that snipers can still manage against bg in close range combat. A minigunner is very likely thrown unconscious with hundred hp wound in his forehead if he tries to rush sniper in close quarters. That's because when going towards sniper, the bg is vulnerable to eyeshots. In close quarters it's a matter of fast clicking when bg and sniper fight. Even if the sniper doesn't fire first but survives the biggunners first burst, he gets to land guaranteed eyeshot on the big gunner because after firing the big gunner is facing the sniper.
The direction-dependent eyeshooting is good and bad feature. It encourages good positioning and discourages stupid bumrushing, but encourages retarded turning in the middle of fight. "hoho lookit me, ima turn my back to the enemy so that he can't fire my eyes". In addition when 2 snipers fight, the one who fires first is actually in certain disadvantage because if the enemy sniper isn't facing the one who shoots first, he gets only headshot while the one who shoots last gets eyeshot.
However I don't agree with Holo that bg has to be the close quarters fighter. Shotguns, pistols, assault rifles and smgs need to have their role too. If bg runs the damage monopoly in close range, we have lots of interesting weapons without use.
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I don't who is that idiot , but small balance ? SG counters BG and everyone knows that , he obviously don't know shit what is he talking about.
It's the rock/paper/scissor triangle , SG mostly beats BG , BG mostly beats Leader Mercs but Leader Mercs counter SG.
Even Solar cannot be certain , because many Solar posts contain words like might/i think/should/I believe/could etc. etc. , those words do not express certainty.
Are u trying to tell me that Sg. allways used to be overpowered and Crits were as eazy to make, and without auto aim small guns had huge chances?????
I havent played for a year and half, but small gunners were never able to kill a bg in pvp only if it was a noob, or if the sniper was very pro and very lucky. It was a waste of time to be SG, and maybe every third faction member leveld one up. Now i see more small gunners in factions i see more snipers and i am happy. Yes maybe there should be a better balance since having auto aim is just amazingly easy and fast. Before u had to hope the bg didnt see you and burst u u had to have crazy Perception and be amazingly fast in the aiming process. so saying that SG mostly beats BG is fuckin howls man...
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Are u trying to tell me that Sg. allways used to be overpowered and Crits were as eazy to make, and without auto aim small guns had huge chances?????
I havent played for a year and half, but small gunners were never able to kill a bg in pvp only if it was a noob, or if the sniper was very pro and very lucky. It was a waste of time to be SG, and maybe every third faction member leveld one up. Now i see more small gunners in factions i see more snipers and i am happy. Yes maybe there should be a better balance since having auto aim is just amazingly easy and fast. Before u had to hope the bg didnt see you and burst u u had to have crazy Perception and be amazingly fast in the aiming process. so saying that SG mostly beats BG is fuckin howls man...
Yeah, last session SG was so bad that RDA were very often playing almost full sniper team, and they were fucking good...
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What isn't what case? It is true that snipers can still manage against bg in close range combat. A minigunner is very likely thrown unconscious with hundred hp wound in his forehead if he tries to rush sniper in close quarters. That's because when going towards sniper, the bg is vulnerable to eyeshots. In close quarters it's a matter of fast clicking when bg and sniper fight. Even if the sniper doesn't fire first but survives the biggunners first burst, he gets to land guaranteed eyeshot on the big gunner because after firing the big gunner is facing the sniper.
The direction-dependent eyeshooting is good and bad feature. It encourages good positioning and discourages stupid bumrushing, but encourages retarded turning in the middle of fight. "hoho lookit me, ima turn my back to the enemy so that he can't fire my eyes". In addition when 2 snipers fight, the one who fires first is actually in certain disadvantage because if the enemy sniper isn't facing the one who shoots first, he gets only headshot while the one who shoots last gets eyeshot.
However I don't agree with Holo that bg has to be the close quarters fighter. Shotguns, pistols, assault rifles and smgs need to have their role too. If bg runs the damage monopoly in close range, we have lots of interesting weapons without use.
[quote ]It mean that in 8/10 cases ... [/quote]
There is not an 80% chance for any of those things, its hyperbole.
As for BG vs SG, its still the case that against burst you have your defense perks and armour already – post wipe you will have defense perks against crits and armour will defend you a bit too.
When we have had a good few weeks under the new system it will be worth discussing again, as there are bound to be some tweaks needed.
There’s going to be a lot of variables which will be different and its impossible to guess at the overall effect.
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When we have had a good few weeks under the new system it will be worth discussing again, as there are bound to be some tweaks needed.
There’s going to be a lot of variables which will be different and its impossible to guess at the overall effect.
Yes this is what we should do. Wait for wipe, play with the new settings and then come back discussing, if necessary.
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Are u trying to tell me that Sg. allways used to be overpowered and Crits were as eazy to make, and without auto aim small guns had huge chances?????
I havent played for a year and half, but small gunners were never able to kill a bg in pvp only if it was a noob, or if the sniper was very pro and very lucky. It was a waste of time to be SG, and maybe every third faction member leveld one up. Now i see more small gunners in factions i see more snipers and i am happy. Yes maybe there should be a better balance since having auto aim is just amazingly easy and fast. Before u had to hope the bg didnt see you and burst u u had to have crazy Perception and be amazingly fast in the aiming process. so saying that SG mostly beats BG is fuckin howls man...
So if you see alot of SG and less BG makes you happy.
You say BG needs balance against SG.
But you don't agree that SG mostly beats BG.
You are pointing out SG and BG balance two wipes ago.
Were not talking about the past.
You don't fucking make any sense !
I have only one question for you !
Are you completely retarded ?
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What are the other guns that aren't really used in PvP? Shotguns, assault rifles, pistols (except the .223), what else? Anyone had any brainwaves in that department? I'm interested because of what it says these guns are lacking - whether they're too hard to craft, not powerful enough, the ammo's too laborious to craft, whatever.
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They are usualy lacking in range, and when compared to SMGs they are not powerful enough.
post wipe you will have defense perks against crits and armour will defend you a bit too.
Sad panda when looking at metal armors with my lasers :<
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Jackhammer / p90c with 2 BRD.
None 1.007373645
LJ 1.110011714
LA 1.127373418
LA2 1.174565793
CLJ 1.115709185
M 1.149621183
M2 1.140067841
Tesla 1.065956029
CA 1.072226359
CA2 1.094564408
BCA 1.005212211
Nothing is to say Armours will be the same stats.
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Jackhammer / p90c with 2 BRD.
None 1.007373645
LJ 1.110011714
LA 1.127373418
LA2 1.174565793
CLJ 1.115709185
M 1.149621183
M2 1.140067841
Tesla 1.065956029
CA 1.072226359
CA2 1.094564408
BCA 1.005212211
Nothing is to say Armours will be the same stats.
1x burst? 2x burst? Single shot? 10mm AP or JHP?
If Jackhammer does more or less the same damage as p90, then p90 is still better with almost twice the range (25-30 vs 16) and 1 AP less to use.
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Its averaged over 10 AP and with the p90c using the best ammo in each situation.
I would suggest that a general 10->15% advantage was actually pretty good.
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1x burst? 2x burst? Single shot? 10mm AP or JHP?
Ask also if point blank ^_^
then you'll see jackhammer/p90:
~0.3 everywhere
Of couse jackhammer isn't that bad at >1 hex, but also it's useless in point blank, if you're going to shoot at >1 hex and low range (jackhammer), I think you better you plasma or .223 pistol. Of couse you don't need BRD perks with jackhammer, so you can take lotsa LGs, anti-crit perks and other stuff, so jackhammer, probably, will be the best choice for pure tanks, who afraid/don't want to go in point blank for some reason.
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I think the nerf of critical isn't a good idea and very difficult to balance... So, i'm sure that after the balance, lot of people post and cry ( my sniper is shit, my EW is shit... ) and we will see only BG in PVP fight...
But I want to see and test, and I applaude if the work be perfect. ^^
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I think the nerf of critical isn't a good idea and very difficult to balance... So, i'm sure that after the balance, lot of people post and cry ( my sniper is shit, my EW is shit... ) and we will see only BG in PVP fight...
But I want to see and test, and I applaude if the work be perfect. ^^
If for example, Laser Rifle is going to do somewhat less steady damage, game won't break and might be just a little more fun. Right now it's all about doing either minimal damage like 10-15 or huge damage like 120-150, that's not really much exciting.
I'd personaly prefer crit mods reducing crippling and damage mod effects instead of critical chance itself, while also providing less extreme protections ( ofcourse not in case of the best power armors )).
But if we recieved scaling crit reduction (more on eyes and head, less on torso) it might be balanced as well, but still somewhat spiky.
I would suggest that a general 10->15% advantage was actually pretty good.
There is still problem with range and ST/Hand requirements. P90 can benefit from single-handed and etc. It is obvious, because it's rare event to meet a guy with this thing, even though it's craftable.
.. So, i'm sure that after the balance, lot of people post and cry
Unconstructive feedback is always expectable every time major component is changed, there's nothing wrong about that.
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Well Jackhammers and p90cs are better at different things. Jackhammers will also be cheaper to run and maintain - and as has been said, should be more flexible in which perks you can take with them. Different weapons should always be able to be comparaed with X is better here and Y is better for this, else we get a very generic system.
I'd personaly prefer crit mods reducing crippling and damage mod effects instead of critical chance itself, while also providing less extreme protections ( ofcourse not in case of the best power armors )).
But if we recieved scaling crit reduction (more on eyes and head, less on torso) it might be balanced as well, but still somewhat spiky.
Reducing crits effects is how perks will work, armour will reduce the chance. You will also have a kind of scaling in that helmets will have a CM bonus, so you will have 3 different values if you are in armour, Head shot (incl eyes), Body shot (Torso, Arms, Groin) and then Legs.
All I hope for is some useful stuff along with the usual "You broke my favourite weapon!!!11" posts. ;)
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values if you are in armour, Head shot (incl eyes), Body shot (Torso, Arms, Groin) and then Legs.
Aren't leg protected by CA?
Btw, about critical hit: I always thougt that boosting leg crit chance at same level than arm, and groin at same level than head would be good (with the same aim penalty too ofc), like it would allow really to choose what effect you want to have more than just "eyes or arm" (foe, if groin crit table was better than head one, aiming at eyes when the ennemy show his back would be less effective than aim his groin).
All I hope for is some useful stuff along with the usual "You broke my favourite weapon!!!11" posts. Wink
These post have a reason to exist ! Though not all of them are right/usefull, sure.
Btw, could we hope some intense CBT with many hot fixes and hot testing before the wipe to begin with a better session faster?
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I imagine there will be some variety of CBT, though I expect it will be more to find bugs rather than anything balance related.
As I say, there will be lots of changes: Weapons, Armours, Perks, Crafting, Repair, Encounters - I will only begin paying attention to opinions on balance after a good few weeks.
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I will only begin paying attention to opinions on balance after a good few weeks.
:'(
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It will give time for all the whines to synchronise :p. But without a few weeks of the new system I will doubt how much of everything has been properly tested - so complaints about one thing might have a natural counter elsewhere which will be discovered in time.
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one question
more skill = less changes of crit?
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one question
more skill = less changes of crit?
Oh noes, again.
second question:
wearing BA = higher chance to be instakilled?
Why, only because you're not PvPing in Hinkley in bluesuit, so I got most instakills on me when I was in BA than bluesuit!!!1
If you're a bit less lucky on crits after increasing your skill%, it doesn't mean that skill% is a reason.
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so.... what is the reason?
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What on Earth are you on about? :P
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Sorry for bumping an old thread, but how is Critical Hit damage calculated? I have not found it explained here nor on the Wiki page.
For example, with 2x Bonus Ranged Damage, would the total damage be multiplied, thus making the Critical Hit significantly stronger? Or would the +4 weapon damage just be added on top of the damage from the Critical Hit?
Thanks ahead for any information.
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Sorry for bumping an old thread, but how is Critical Hit damage calculated? I have not found it explained here nor on the Wiki page.
For example, with 2x Bonus Ranged Damage, would the total damage be multiplied, thus making the Critical Hit significantly stronger? Or would the +4 weapon damage just be added on top of the damage from the Critical Hit?
Thanks ahead for any information.
BRD is added to base weapon damage, and so is multiplied by crit hit.