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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: aForcefulThrust on February 09, 2011, 07:44:54 pm
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The wasteland is HARSH! A struggle to survive. In a world like that it only makes sense that there would be a market for hired mercs! Minions/Mercs is one thing that separated FOnline from the other games for me. No other game offers minions quite like FOnline. Removing this feature, nerfing human mercs would be a big mistake IMO.
I will agree there was a problem with the mutants that was getting a little out of hand.. I think this is mainly caused by the crash on load bug that is not intended by the owner of the mutants. Mutants can be brought down at a great cost to the owner, and with very little cost to the people trying to bring them down. What will they loose, Just some metal armor and a rocket launcher if they fail? I've lost 5 mutants to gangs of players in new reno several times. yeah I kill some and I loose some, But when I loose it cost me much more then when they loose.
Bottom line is mercs, even though they may make their masters stronger then the lone player, BELONG in the wasteland!!! They add strategy to battles and there is strategy to arming them with different weapons. This game will be allot less without them
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From what i understand, they aren't removing ANY followers, if not adding more features.
They('ve/'re) rework(ed/ing) the whole follower system as far as how many.
For example...
10 dogs
8 slaves
5 human mercs.
2-3 mutants.
and a mix in between.
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From what i understand, they aren't removing ANY followers, if not adding more features.
They('ve/'re) rework(ed/ing) the whole follower system as far as how many.
For example...
10 dogs
8 slaves
5 human mercs.
2-3 mutants.
and a mix in between.
Thats an awesome idea I love it!!! 2 mutants with 3 human mercs would be pretty nice. mixing mercs would add strategy as well.
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i think that we could use Speech for leader builds
like 300% speech * 10 charisma = 3000 slots
so for example mutant would take 1000 slots so you can have 3 mutties with this stats and mixing would be easy because every mercs / slave would have our value (like slaves 100 , dogs 50 , bg merc 500).
In this idea there would be a difference between 1 lvl leader and 21 lvl leader.
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I like the suggestion above, but it should be less biased in speech. It would only promote 300% speech alts to attain the highest slot number, while regular leaders/slavers will suffer.
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A long time ago, in forum section far, far away ...
OK, so lets put some numbers to this:
First, proposed change to the follower limit
For Merc/Dogs, If we add an extra -1 so its basically Ch/2 -2 rounding up, but then add bonus slots due to speech skill => Speech skill/60 = #extra slots we end up with
Cha 1,2 = None (We can also ban their bonus slots from Speech)
Cha 3,4 = None, but allowed Speech bonus
Cha 5,6 = 1 + Bonus ... etc
This does take us up to max 3 slots from Charisma and a possible 5 extra slots from speech (and one for mag personality) for a total of 9 mercs/dogs ... but that would be for 9/10 Ch 300% speech skill guy with Mag personality.
Brahmin/Slaves
These could then not take up any follower slots, but the amount you are allowed to "own" globally would depend on the number of mercs/dogs you have.
If #Slaves = 1 + (# Mercs*2) then even a reasonably normal character can have several slaves to work for them. Ch 5 120% speech would be allowed 3 mercs ... so then 7 slaves
Then # Brahmin = 1 + # Dogs. So Ch 5 120% speech guy can have 3 Dogs and these allow him to have a total of 4 brahmin.
While the numbers aren't perfect and don't reflect how different merc types should take up different amounts of slots, it gives the general idea.
Theres also a thread on how mercs and slaves should also have some form of "upkeep" mechanic and be respawnable somewhere ... so I've no idea how followers will actually end up post wipe.
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Wait, so if I spent a year building a 9 ch 300% speech character (Which WILL take a year since there is no fa, or doctor, or smallguns, or outdoorsman to spare, kinda like sneaker builds) I would be able to have an even bigger army than now?! :D
Wait... Oh crap I have this feeling your about to mention nerfing the followers themselves. NOOOOoooooooooo.... It's simply not worth it! levelling followers up so they can do die so easily and have to restart! I am just guessfortelling here, though, but still, seems like the direction its headed, a direction I and I'm sure many others will simply loath or refuse to take.
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Eh?
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Eh?
when can we expect wipe?
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when can we expect wipe?
Soon.
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I wouldn't bother thinking about a wipe yet. We will give you a week or so's notice.
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Eh?
300% sneak builds have no skill for anything else 9 times out of 10. (BAD)
This is what is apparently happening to leader builds from the information you posted. (BAD)
So it will take months to a year to level it up. (BAD)
But we will be able to have even bigger armies than now with 9-10 ch, 300% speech skill, and mag personality, for total of 9mercs/dogs.
(Kinda makes it easier to deal with... but watch this!:)
Yet with these large numbers of followers available I feel in the end a major nerf to mercs general combat abilities will happen, forcing us to level them, which is EXTREMELY bad because no one is going to bother constantly retraining mercenaries for weeks and die again.
This will cause leader builds to become nothing, they will not exist except maybe as taxis. Even I won't make a leader build, one of the biggest leader build fanatics in here...
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Ignoring that I said the numbers were out of date (I only posted it to indicate that speech was already being considered), I think you missed where I said:
Theres also a thread on how mercs and slaves should also have some form of "upkeep" mechanic and be respawnable
I think the real solution will be something like having your Ch and Speech decide how many slots of Mercs you can have - they'd start out quite weak and over the course of your playing they'd level up until they are pretty handy fighters. You would then have to pay some kind of upkeep (In the form of drugs/food/whatever) or they would refuse to play ball and return to your base/tent until you gave them the stuff they wanted.
This would have 2 advantages over the current system:
1. Your mercs wouldn't die all the time, so you could have persistent followers who you would then have an investment in.
2. A level 1 leader alt wouldn't be able to get as many, or the same quality of mercs as a dedicated player - so building up your speech skill and taking time to develop your guys beats just having a tonne of caps and 10 Ch.
I then imagine that you would have those mercs decide how many slaves you could forcibly keep with you at any one time - alone you can keep your eye on 2 slaves, with 1 guy you trust its 3 etc. These would then be mercs like now, if they die they die - they are limited in ability and weapon choice - but they are there as cannon fodder (or stock to be sold, or miners to be worked)
If you then had harder mercs as taking up more slots you could go for few high quality (and so fewer slaves) or lots of your small gunners (and a whole slave caravan of slaves being guarded.)
This would also have the advantage of letting you have slaves rebell if some of your mercs started being gunned down and could make for some fun situations :)
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Ok that sounds much better, but no where in that quote did it mention upkeep for mercs. and just because I didn't say "hey I know these numbers are out of date but I'm gonna point out some flaws anyways just in case" doesn't mean I completely ignored it.
Sounds much much better now... I can sleep peacefully now. thanks :D.
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I wasn't talking about upkeep.
which is EXTREMELY bad because no one is going to bother constantly retraining mercenaries for weeks and die again.
vs
Theres also a thread on how mercs and slaves should also have some form of "upkeep" mechanic and be respawnable
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I see.
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This will be interesting change for sure.... IDK how i will build my guy if i have to do speech too!
As now we have enough points for a weapon skill, first aid to heal mercs, and outdoors to travel.
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As now we have enough points for a weapon skill, first aid to heal mercs, and outdoors to travel.
You gone work something out... Just like We (players-betatesters) always does!
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Wow.. speech req. will totally shit up slaver builds
So instead of having a 9ch build that can at least do something else, we will have yet another forced power build
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Thats a pretty pointless assertion, given that its not even really past the point where its been agreed as whats going to happen - let alone reached a point where any kind of power level or requirements could be guessed at.