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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Korusho on January 13, 2011, 08:08:32 pm
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As the topic says, I would like to hear the reason for gathering CDs beyond OMG EVERYONE USES ALTS (I for one, do not. I have a singular crafting character and thats it, not even a combat alt). Crafting is already on CD, so why make one for gathering as well? Am I missing something?
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I agree. I actually only promotes alts
I too have a single char ((not full combat) not crafter either tho)
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Gathering cooldown is quite balance thing in game.
It was introduced just right for limit alts. Otherwise it will promote you to gather tons of res and then just waiting 10(hah!) min or just using fast relog logging on your endless alts and craft tons of things you need?
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Increase account time change to beyond maximum gathering CD? Not being able to "gather" fibers in 20 minutes at a time is kinda silly. I can understand mining, but for things like electronic parts, fibers, fuck even broc flowers... yes i'm so tired from picking flowers I need to take a break.
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yes i'm so tired from picking flowers I need to take a break.
No CD for flowers = unlimited weak healing powders = unlimited exp(Yes, sounds stupid, but truthfully).
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If anything, it is the crafting cooldown that should be reduced, and gathering stays the same. If there was no gathering cooldown, you could get 100 HQ ore in like 200-300 seconds, only thing slowing you would animation time and Action Points reloading.
If there was no gathering cooldown, an average gang could just camp at a mine, bring a brahmin, and in less than 10 minutes have over 400 HQ ore. That isn't how the game should be.
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I agree with the post above, if something has to be changed, then it should be crafting. Not gathering, because you make from nothing, something with a defined value, while crafted item preserves value of mats used.
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If anything, it is the crafting cooldown that should be reduced, and gathering stays the same. If there was no gathering cooldown, you could get 100 HQ ore in like 200-300 seconds, only thing slowing you would animation time and Action Points reloading.
If there was no gathering cooldown, an average gang could just camp at a mine, bring a brahmin, and in less than 10 minutes have over 400 HQ ore. That isn't how the game should be.
This is true, but its already done with mining alts in a little bit more time. Players always wanna find a way to maximize their IG productivity.
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What we need is more choices on how to acquire these things... keeping it balanced is #1 of course but if we just had other ways to get this equipment...
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What we need is more choices on how to acquire these things... keeping it balanced is #1 of course but if we just had other ways to get this equipment...
Encounter farming and shopping? It has basically replaced crafting - at least for me - and doesn't even require a special build. If something, encounter farming better be balanced because it's totally out of hand.
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Encounter farming and shopping? It has basically replaced crafting - at least for me - and doesn't even require a special build. If something, encounter farming better be balanced because it's totally out of hand.
Indeed. Im usally squating around redding with a SG/Steal/Lockpicker and just farm friendly VS hostile encounters. If youre quick enough you get 1-2 hunting rifles + ammo without even fighting. Other things can be stolen or hunted. As woodchopping doesnt require science you can craft simple items for money.
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It's getting a lil' offtopic, but hey.
If you want to balance encounters vs crafting, I'd say some of the crafting recipes are just insane - esp. ammo with requiring unique terminals and even resources.
I wonder who would craft for example MFC today, when they'd get it easier even if they had to beat mutant armies by themselfs.
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It's getting a lil' offtopic, but hey.
After what Dishonest Abe said there's not much to be discussed anyway so why not.
If you want to balance encounters vs crafting, I'd say some of the crafting recipes are just insane - esp. ammo with requiring unique terminals and even resources.
I wonder who would craft for example MFC today, when they'd get it easier even if they had to beat mutant armies by themselfs.
The recipes and crafting are fine, the encounter farming isn't. Crafting is basically uncheatable without alts due to inflexible cooldowns but loot via encounters varies extremely much. One can receive loot worth of 10k in ten minutes without risking much.
There are ways to fix item farming. One would be to seriously reduce the cost of deteriorated items, fix disassembling and repair and make it so that a encounter farmer has to either repair or disassemble and craft something from the loot. This way the loot cost would be defined by your char's crafting abilities. It would be just exploitable by alting and wouldn't fix ammo crafting.
Another ways are inderect and more complex methods like making death harsher and living more beneficial, in addition to harsher consequences from killing faction troops.
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The example with the brahmin and a gang with a ton of ore made my day.
A cow lifting a kazillion ton is the problem. Geting tons of ore from the same pile of rocks is a problem. Cutting a cartload of fibers from a 2 meter plant is a problem. Plants and trees that grow back in 30sec. that is the problem.
Cooldown for gathering is a poor solution to a problem that can be sum up as inflation of crafting materials.
... and that's only half of the truth. Alts are the real killers of FO gameplay.
But hey! Who'd listen to me? The Dancing Fool?
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Speaking of VS encounters, avv your ideas are way too complicated and not efficient in my opinion. Just reduce the possibility of finding that particular VS encounter - before we had CDs, so in similar fashion we would have lesser chance of finding them.
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Speaking of VS encounters, avv your ideas are way too complicated and not efficient in my opinion. Just reduce the possibility of finding that particular VS encounter - before we had CDs, so in similar fashion we would have lesser chance of finding them.
That's a solution but boring one. It'd increase the time we spend looking for encounters so players would spend more time waving back and forth on worldmap.
Besides, disassembling and repairing are both rather work in progress features so why couldn't they be harnessed for this purpose? That's how it worked in two last fallout games: you find guns and repair them to get maximum price. That could help in the crap problem in shops because players would sell less guns but for better price.
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The worst thing about these encounters isnt their price, but their real usefulness in combat. Practically, you could gather endless ammount of t2 weapons, that are pretty efficient in combat. So player playing EW build had a big advantage over other builds, because his weaponry was easily obtainable in those encounters. How do you want to fix that ?
Worse price for this weaponry is just a start.
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Problem is : make it too easy to find resources = server is flooded with stuff. make it too hard to find resources = nobody goes out with high tier gear anymore.
A balance is hard to find.
The solution of CDs was void because of alts.
The solution of high quality materials was void because of alts (mining chars with cows).
This all slows down crafting, yes. But not far enough for a group of players who organize mining runs.
Having shared mining alts in faction is a common way. Just make 1 10CH char, and 9 mining chars. make a tent near HQ mine, get a cow and post passwords of chars in your faction. Unlimited ressources, items and moneyz. This is almost troll-science which actually works.
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The worst thing about these encounters isnt their price, but their real usefulness in combat. Practically, you could gather endless ammount of t2 weapons, that are pretty efficient in combat. So player playing EW build had a big advantage over other builds, because his weaponry was easily obtainable in those encounters. How do you want to fix that ?
Worse price for this weaponry is just a start.
Ok that I didn't take into account. That players also farm for actual equipment to be used. The problem is similar as sniper vs big gunner. BG eats ammo like madman, but sniper can do well with just a dozen of bullets. The solution could be to tone down laser rifle to match with rest of the tier 2 equipment.
What comes to gun farming, well that's what fallout is like. The world is filled with guns and violence. Surely encounters could be reduced, but it has to be made so that players don't have to spend excess time on the worldmap because they are insecure whether there's a chance to encounter a lootable encounter. Hell, most good loot providing random encounters could be even removed and turned into quests similar to dogs of LA. Caravans could only take off once per x time, same as patrols. Caravans and patrols could radio for help when under attack and members of that faction could join.
Problem is : make it too easy to find resources = server is flooded with stuff. make it too hard to find resources = nobody goes out with high tier gear anymore.
A balance is hard to find.
Make living profitable and death something to be avoided. This way players will always want to wear the best stuff because their life is more valuable than the equipment.
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if there is no Gathering caracter we can make a sneaker with 10 str and cary perks that uses sneak, and why not, steal. that will just mine, mine, mine, mine, and nothing else, cuz i think leveling a caracter to 21 in 6 hours is one of the many things that prove that there are more boots in this game than people.
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I myself, still wet behind the ears in this game, find that the major problem of all the CDs and related issues comes to Alts, the fear of usage of alts, and the over protectiveness of said uses.
Alts ruin FOnline?
I generally only craft in this game (1 char, like I said earlier), and I find plenty to do with my time, I don't understand why people have the need to alt when there are things to do. (box lifting, mining, crafting [takes forever click clicklciclicliclckcicliclkclcilciclkclicck]) By the time i'm done crafting its almost time to go mine again. I generally shovel or do the box quest and bank the caps.
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I myself, still wet behind the ears in this game, find that the major problem of all the CDs and related issues comes to Alts, the fear of usage of alts, and the over protectiveness of said uses.
Alts ruin FOnline?
I generally only craft in this game (1 char, like I said earlier), and I find plenty to do with my time, I don't understand why people have the need to alt when there are things to do. (box lifting, mining, crafting [takes forever click clicklciclicliclckcicliclkclcilciclkclicck]) By the time i'm done crafting its almost time to go mine again. I generally shovel or do the box quest and bank the caps.
Because it's more to do than just boxlifting and it's a real pain, if you're a loner but a bliss, if you actually have nothing to lose and just wander around healing everything you meet.
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Back to the topic.
I think that gathering CD is here because of constelation of several reasons
- gathering materials to make certaine piece of equipment must take some time.
- there are not enough content to make gathering actualy fun rather than mindless grind.
- ores are too heavy. (if you needed 300 ores for one armour you would wore your shoes out.)
To offtopics. FOnline gathering is boring as hell and I am like that it is avoidable in current game setting. I play FOnline to click on player enemies and see them die in the most violent manner. Not to click on rock piles.
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I play FOnline to click on player enemies and see them die in the most violent manner.
Maybe here is the major problem for the server, after alting.
But as Avv said, a lot of things would be solved by death penality.
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*Cough*Runescape*Cough*
Nobody wants the enemy to gather full inventory of ores in matter of seconds.