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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Michaelh139 on January 02, 2011, 06:47:33 am
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Suggested before, I simply making my own version here so read careful.
I honestly think the people who made fallout nv hunger system had the right idea but it was totally wasted by how easy it was to obtain these things sadly. (just sayin)
The Hunger system:
Will correlate very closely with ingame time specifically, lets say you start with 0/1000 hunger points. every hour adds on 3 points. 24 hours times 3 = 72 hunger points. 72 times 7 = 504 hunger points, so within 2 weeks ingame, you Must eat something. the same goes for drinking.
Consequences for not eating and at what levels:
+250 hunger points = -1 charisma. (yer cranky :P)
+400 hunger points = -1 charisma -1 agility (cranky/tired)
+600 hunger points = -1 charisma -1 agility -1 strength (etc)
+800 hunger points = -1 charisma -1 agility -1 strength - Perception (etc)
+1000 = death.
[P.S. it will not go below 1 of each, also, i know that first level will not affect builds who used charisma as dump stat, but they're the "Strong, powerful, tough." the ones who would be able to get through such a set back without being hindered much.]
Benefits from eating: No consequences and no death. ;)
benefits from drinking and at what levels:
+200 thirst points = -1 perception
+400 thirst points = -1 perception -1 strength
+600 thirst points = -1 perception -1 strength -1 charisma -1 Endurance -1 intelligence
+800 thirst points = -1 perception -1 strength -1 charisma -1 endurance -2 Intelligence
+1000 = death
food level of use:
Fruit -25 hunger points.
Iguana on a stick -50 hunger points.
Strange Iguana on a stick 50% chance -15 hunger points 50% +5 poison.
Meat -75 hunger points (Hey an actual use for it :D!)
Meat Jerky -100 hunger points.
Any new implemented foods will be determined by devs.
Drink level of use:
Nuka cola -75 thirst points.
water bag -100 thirst points.
All booze will add thirst because alchohol only drains your body of needed fluids.
Maybe all should be -50 thirst points?
Of course, we will need a food/drink gathering system. Well, first proposal for the ones with money to buy food, in each and all town, there be an npc that through dialogue sells food and drink for 100 caps for food and 150 caps for water[water will be given in an water bag or nuka cola]. (if there isnt already)
Alternatively, For water you could just use that water bag you get once you first register and fill it up at a well easily if there is one.
also, the food you get as a newbie, will be useful rather than random stuff your just handed... (if you survive with it that is)
Some answers to possible questions:
"Will you becoming hungry/thirsty will offline?"
No.
"Won't this make this game too harsh for newbies?"
No, brahmin shit shovelling eventually gives enough caps to support this without too much hassle. Shovel that shit for your life!!
"Will we be able to harvest food from animals?"
I dont see why not but i doubt that its necessary since you can find fruit in many encounters, but maybe if this is implemented, it could be that fruit plant encounters are far more scarce, and that eating animals could become necessary... you'll need a knife.
"Cannablism?!?! :D"
I hope so, and maybe, just maybe, there can be a cannibal faction for cannibals only? (I dont know whether to make it a perk, you decide. perk to have the nerve to eat other humans? Or maybe a trait! :D)
atm, when system is more refined, it could be made harsher accordingly, as now i think it is too lenient.
This part of the game would need to be very well defined in the beginning of game registration.
I think that's about it, comments, suggestions, all is welcome. (Except obvious spam and trolling.. of course.
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i like it mich but with a minor change like a place in ncr where they give away 1 free food and drink a day mostly for noobs who have trouble getting caps. :)
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you know i voted no straight away before actually reading anything because of how hard it could be to implemant but this sounds like a great idea and gives me a reason to why i carry cheez puffs around with me everywhere.
+1 if i can change my vote.
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I'm all for survival because it has potential to make us act like wastelanders but your system has a flaw: it only makes us gather food but not act like wastelanders. If we can just buy our food from npc or farm it from wasteland, then we just need to farm and grind as usually and transfer some of it to alts. Nothing really changes, except the ammount of grinding.
So what's the potential? I'll explain. If you get food mainly from npc factions that means you have to follow their rules. If you follow the rules of npc factions, you act like a wastelander. The whole rule part has to be revisited though, as seen with current idolized-abuse.
In addition the food cannot be allowed to be transferred as items. When you get access to food, your char would eat it right away.This prevents you from doing something with one char and then doing the exact opposite with another. You have to be loyal to your npc faction.
The last thing are the downsides. I don't really care what happens between the 1000-0 starvation points as long as it's not nerve rackingly annoying. What matters most is what happens if you just don't eat. The food system has potential to strongly discourage griefing like bombing and suicide killing in safe towns. If you die, you get more hunger, if you die in hunger you cannot perform the typical actions needed to interact with the world. These would be: crafting, fighting, using skills and even looting. All you could do is to go back to your npc faction and get more food.
I mean if you constantly die it shows that you're clearly not respecting your character or the world you live in.
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You forget about those who don't give a shit about their chars. Perhaps it's dedicated suicide bomber char, which is deleted afterwards and created anew.
Another problem is: besides of leveling and equipping, you'll waste even more time just to have some fun. And what happen to the char, while you're offline for a week?
Permadeath? Come on.
Lowering stats: ok. Death from malnourishment: no. Prepared food: small bonus to stats. (like drugs)
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Lowering stats: ok. Death from malnourishment: no.
Not dying from malnourishment could be actually good. Chars won't die in hunger & thirst but they simply become very weak and unable to interact with the world.
What comes to stat-loss they seem pointless. They just force us to click and micro more. It'd be better if the food-bar acted only as your personal food storage and downsides would show only when it reaches like under 100.
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I think any Hunger system would have to work by offering boosts, rather than punishing. In terms of F:NV it would be copying the bonus XP from being well rested, rather than copying the stats dropping.
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I think any Hunger system would have to work by offering boosts, rather than punishing. In terms of F:NV it would be copying the bonus XP from being well rested, rather than copying the stats dropping.
Then it's just another resource to farm.
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Then it's just another resource to farm.
So it is when you need it to even survive. ( unless you're able to buy everything with ease ).
Also if could've either be something you just get everywhere ( like xander roots or flint ), or something midly annoying ( like junk ), something annoying and requiring tools ( fiber ), or just a chore ( killing rats ).
Ofcourse it's still just another 'Bat'.
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Why not crafting a simple roasted rat meal from a rat meat+two flints+one wood? This way XP farming would be actually hunting for food.
Or including meat of tough critters as a drug component? (Ok, that would be problematic for non-combat chars)
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So it is when you need it to even survive. ( unless you're able to buy everything with ease ).
Why having yet another resource to grind is bad is because it doesn't change anything. You grind for guns, drugs, caps, armor, base and if food is required, then you farm for it aswell. When you got all this amassed, you just go and do whatever you want which in some cases are killing people pointlessly and suiciding.
If food is going to be implemented, it better be a feature that changes our goals and ideology. If it's just another option or resource to grind then it's good as useless.
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that idea is just a new way to make the game more annoying :F
big NOOOO!
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Why having yet another resource to grind is bad is because it doesn't change anything. You grind for guns, drugs, caps, armor, base and if food is required, then you farm for it aswell. When you got all this amassed, you just go and do whatever you want which in some cases are killing people pointlessly and suiciding.
If food is going to be implemented, it better be a feature that changes our goals and ideology. If it's just another option or resource to grind then it's good as useless.
So how would farming change our goals and ideology, if one can just kill a farmer or/and rob him for food? Lolz, n00bs get us our stuff, pardon for shitspeak.
Wouldn't a farmer enjoy some kind of guild protection, like VC citizenship? You farm raw material, get it to the guild, they transform it to the end product, players buy it.
If you kill a farmer, you get shitty reputation and you won't be able to buy food. (In this case, not as item, but as service, which can't be stored in your inventory)
So you won't kill farmers.
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Wouldn't a farmer enjoy some kind of guild protection, like VC citizenship? You farm raw material, get it to the guild, they transform it to the end product, players buy it.
If you can farm something alone, you can be self sufficient and do whatever you want.
If you kill a farmer, you get shitty reputation and you won't be able to buy food. (In this case, not as item, but as service, which can't be stored in your inventory)
Then you get that food with an alt.
So how would farming change our goals and ideology, if one can just kill a farmer or/and rob him for food? Lolz, n00bs get us our stuff, pardon for shitspeak.
Not farming. I've been against farming all along. Read this (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=12394.msg102266#msg102266).
The real question is: how food & drink system can change our goals and ideology. Answer is it will if following requirements meet:
1. The food cannot be transferred between chars.
2. It is mainly received from npc factions, getting food alone without help should be very challenging or limited to certain builds (fe. only outdoorsman chars)
3. It is mandatory for everyone
4. Being malnourished quarantines your char from most ingame activities (crafting, fighting, looting, skill usage)
The reason why these four rules have a chance to alter our gaming style is that number one makes alting more difficult. The number 2 gives us some rules to follow, making it not recommened to just kill everyone. Number 3 prevents players from total anarchy and from choosing unfalloutish playing styles. Number four means that if player doesn't respect the world the game is set, or his character he is isolated from the world while still giving a chance to recover but not fool around.
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This was just a rough draft, I'll try working on it some more later. btw:
There should be one vendor ingame and thats in ncr, don't remove my twin Micky! And leave the nuka cola dispenser dude in Junktown...
The others i suppose can be left alone or removed of whatever food vending they had.
Also, maybe the food can be more expensive, think of it as, visitor's tax, because you are not actual citizen of population so tack on 100-150 caps. (Makes becoming vc citizen useful for newb)
Trying to achieve everything and anything is a grind, in a game you grind to kill all the enemies, you grind to gather loot, you grind to craft, you grind to get a quest done....... etc. I guess it just depends on how fun that grind is whether it's stamped with the "Grind" symbol.
When you die from malnourishment +1000 hunger/thirst points, its reduced to +800. BUT: Everytime you die with less than +799 hunger/thirst points 100 (200 for harshness?) is tacked on. There are of course alts but thats not going to change just give opinion on this one if there weren't alts in your mind....
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This was just a rough draft, I'll try working on it some more later. btw:
Could you first explain what is the whole purpose of food & water? There's no sense adding more features just for the sake of it.
Trying to achieve everything and anything is a grind, in a game you grind to kill all the enemies, you grind to gather loot, you grind to craft, you grind to get a quest done....... etc. I guess it just depends on how fun that grind is whether it's stamped with the "Grind" symbol.
TC isn't grind. You can't grind players because they adapt and change. Neither can you grind one time quests.
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Could you first explain what is the whole purpose of food & water? There's no sense adding more features just for the sake of it.
Its the wasteland, it never felt complete without such a feature... its not really survival, you could just make a character and you've pretty much won at surviving because nothing will happen to you if u sit at your tent all day or even the first place your spawn in registration...
TC isn't grind. You can't grind players because they adapt and change. Neither can you grind one time quests.
How is TC not a grind? You constantly grind against enemy militia to take towns, you grind to keep towns from being taken, you grind to buy militia, you grind to get equipment for TC, if anything TC is one of the major grinds on fonline.
You can grind bluesuits.
You can grind one time quests with alts.
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Its the wasteland, it never felt complete without such a feature... its not really survival, you could just make a character and you've pretty much won at surviving because nothing will happen to you if u sit at your tent all day or even the first place your spawn in registration..
Well that's an alright reasoning but in the end having food wouldn't change our playing style towards survival because surviving is about staying alive, not only getting food. What I mean here are suicide bombing, suicide bursting and all sorts of ridiculous activity that gets your char killed.
You can't call grind-based food system survival because it doesn't encourage surviving. You grind for some food and then go blast yourself to pieces.
How is TC not a grind?
When 2 gangs meet in pvp, that is not grind. Surely we grind for militia & equipment but once you actually fight against players that moment is not grind. You can't farm for example VSB the way you farm Hub Patrol.
You can grind one time quests with alts.
If the quest only provides experience or +rep, it's not worth grinding with alts.
The point was that if you can grind for food, you can amass it. If you can amass it, you can share it with alts and others and do whatever you want. It won't change anything, just force us to gather yet another resource. And in the end, it's not even about survival anymore if your tent is stacked with food.
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This would make outdoorsman more than just avoid encounters and faster travel on the worldmap but as for a profession hasnt someone put up the idea of a scout or survivalist/hunter?? (which would make just another alt unless you make food untradable).
1. The food cannot be transferred between chars.
2. It is mainly received from npc factions, getting food alone without help should be very challenging or limited to certain builds (fe. only outdoorsman chars)
3. It is mandatory for everyone
4. Being malnourished quarantines your char from most ingame activities (crafting, fighting, looting, skill usage)
The reason why these four rules have a chance to alter our gaming style is that number one makes alting more difficult. The number 2 gives us some rules to follow, making it not recommened to just kill everyone. Number 3 prevents players from total anarchy and from choosing unfalloutish playing styles. Number four means that if player doesn't respect the world the game is set, or his character he is isolated from the world while still giving a chance to recover but not fool around.
You could still kill everyone if cannibalism is an option, just not within i town i suppose so everyone is fair game out in the wastes as food ( and water? i mean if you want to drink your victim's blood.)
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This would make outdoorsman more than just avoid encounters and faster travel on the worldmap but as for a profession hasnt someone put up the idea of a scout or survivalist/hunter?? (which would make just another alt unless you make food untradable).
I believe it has but until thirst and food is implemented such profession would be useless. One step at a time.
You could still kill everyone if cannibalism is an option, just not within i town i suppose so everyone is fair game out in the wastes as food ( and water? i mean if you want to drink your victim's blood.)
Not even in ungaurded towns. then it'd be fine. You'd have to hunt down your victim ;D. (Oh, and I'd prefer to keep it to eating players. but if it must npcs too. (Because then it'd be WAYYY too easy)
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yeah you are right about not being able to cannibalise npc's and when i said towns i meant all of them otherwise it'd be too easy to camp bluesuits to chomp away at if they are brave enough to go into unguarded towns.
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100% support the idea but here's the main flaw:
with the playerbase will it pass?
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then it'd be fine. You'd have to hunt down your victim ;D. (Oh, and I'd prefer to keep it to eating players. but if it must npcs too. (Because then it'd be WAYYY too easy)
Cannibalism would be awesome. They would be the outcasts of fonline, shot on sight by everyone. Perfect role for pks of today because then they'd have a reason to kill someone.
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Cannibalism... sounds good :D
Enemy deserve death and be eaten.
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Cannibalism... sounds good :D
Enemy deserve death and be eaten.
what enemy? if you are a cannibal then all you see is food :o
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what enemy? if you are a cannibal then all you see is food :o
...Say true Cannibal :D
But anyway there is simple way to get Cannibalism.
1. Perk for it.
2. Change killed body to bone sprites when you use "Cannibalism" to body.
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But anyway there is simple way to get Cannibalism.
1. Perk for it.
Not really necessary. Once you make the decision to become cannibal, there's no way back.
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Like i said it could be a trait.
You are a carnivore of your own kind, you have learned to eat humans, yet you feel weakened after each meal. You are rejected by almost all. You sick bastard.
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I am not against this, but the water and food system should be done by some entertaining way.
I.e. you should be able to drink water at base, from some kind of supply tank, that should be refiiled by water caravans...
So this would add another ingame mechanics like water merchants (driven by players) or something else. But if the concept would mean only that you will have to do necessary thing (find water, food) to do another neccesary thing (leveling), without any other benefit, i am against.
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yay another thing to grind
Just no
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If 2238 were a bit more newbie friendly this could work
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If 2238 were a bit more newbie friendly this could work
The last thing we need, with the original suggestion being the 2nd last thing we need.
Seriously,
We have enough shit troubling us in the daily fonline experience; enough to make it fun.
More would just make it a chore to play the game.
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We have enough shit troubling us in the daily fonline experience; enough to make it fun.
Actually nothing is troubbling us expect the troubbles we make up in our own mind. You don't really need anything because you can just hang around in your tent or base and nothing is going to happen to you. While it should be exactly the other way around: we're too busy to even think of new problems when we're already on our toes trying to get along with the existing troubbles.
Its the wasteland, it never felt complete without such a feature... its not really survival, you could just make a character and you've pretty much won at surviving because nothing will happen to you if u sit at your tent all day or even the first place your spawn in registration.
This was Michael's reasoning when I asked why the feature is needed. It's a good reasoning but the way he suggested it won't work. Reason is that if you can grind and amass food, the whole point of the idea is thrown out of the window.
Common necessity for everyone is probably the single most important thing fonline really needs, if devs want players to act in orderly way. Other way to make us act reasonably would be just restrict many things we like and that's prolly not going to happen.
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"Troubling" is a bad choice of word. I meant "inconvenience". I believe the level at the moment is just about right to make the game not-so-easy/hard while not having tons of layers of grind stacked upon each other.
If you add the need to feed and drink it would be too much imho.
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"Troubling" is a bad choice of word. I meant "inconvenience". I believe the level at the moment is just about right to make the game not-so-easy/hard while not having tons of layers of grind stacked upon each other.
How can you say it's too hard when there's no common goal towards which to aim? If there's no goal, there are no boundaries to cross and thus no difficulty.
Having to maintain your character's nutrition could act as a gradual goal for everyone. If you didn't the punishment would be that you do not have access to the other goals above it. This means you can't craft, fight or even loot until your char is well nourished again.
To not to have yet another thing to grind, the food could be ungrindable. You get it from npc factions that like you so you don't really have to grind anything, just behave so that you keep good relationships with at least one faction. The side effect of all this is that we got players acting rationally because if they didn't their food supply would be cut and they couldn't do anything.
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The side effect of all this is that we got players acting rationally because if they didn't their food supply would be cut and they couldn't do anything.
Nay, the side effect would be that one clanmember/soloplayer would just have yet-another-alt assigned to food-hauling duty :)
Just another material in the list of materials to be farmed and hauled to the base.
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Nay, the side effect would be that one clanmember/soloplayer would just have yet-another-alt assigned to food-hauling duty :)
Just another material in the list of materials to be farmed and hauled to the base.
Except that you can't haul food because it doesn't exist as items, that's one of the most important basis of working food system.
How it should work instead would be that you go to the npc faction mess hall, they check your rep and fill your nutrition bar so that it lasts like one ingame week. You can't share your food with other players because there's nothing to share. The food only exists in the nutrition bar and dialogue options. It represents that your char just eats the food right away.
For loner type of players, he would eat the hunted food right away when he encounters it so that it can't be farmed and hauled anywhere.
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Its unreasonable that every single char needs to be grinded for food, and that clan members cant get food for each other.
Just forget it..
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Its unreasonable that every single char needs to be grinded for food, and that clan members cant get food for each other.
Just forget it..
Every single char? What do you mean by that?
If you want food and you belong to clan that's hated by everyone, take unsafe town and you get food from there.
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If you want to see fun implementation of hunger, check out ADOM. However it's a roguelike game, something quite distant from FOnline. Google it up, if you have no idea what I mean.
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If you want to see fun implementation of hunger, check out ADOM. However it's a roguelike game, something quite distant from FOnline. Google it up, if you have no idea what I mean.
Adom was a singleplayer game that has completely differend gameflow than fonline.
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So, i'm thinking about this:
1. Food: NOT a ITEM. Can't be stored in inventory, can't be dropped on the ground, can't be grinded in masses by alts. Must be bought from food vendor.
2. How does it work: Buy it from food vendor. You fuck up at food vendor' faction, you won't get food.
3. Consequences: you have to follow the rules of the faction. (can't kill or steal faction members)
4. Prerequisites: food shouldn't be a nuisance, requiring a steak and waterbag every two minutes, but every game week. You always can afford a bite, if you not fuck up the reputation in current city. You can't die from malnutrition while offline. To get full character performance, you need to eat and you mustn't grind two hours for it.
That's it. Who was talking about grind?
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Gosh, I thought that main source of food will be hunting or farming (you know like real farming).
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Funny as it was you already did your trolling post which i and everyone else ignored, this was not necessary.
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Stay focused, Mr I And Everyone Else. This - I mean feeding your char - will just make boring game more boring.
I'm terrified you can't see this and consider objection trolling.
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Stay focused, Mr I And Everyone Else. This - I mean feeding your char - will just make boring game more boring.
I'm terrified you can't see this and consider objection trolling.
The thread was already dead, it was necro'd by John Ryder, then you joined in to troll some more.
Don't try to play innocent.
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You call a thread one week old a "dead" one? Weird.
And speaking of trolling - what your tight-ass posts are doing here?
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mnn, it would be good, but it would make the game even more frustrating. C'mond this game scares the 70% of the people that tries playing it cause its really frustrating, you take 1 hour to reach a place, and when you reach it you probably die. and have to travel again and get al again. Imagine adding the chance of dying of thirsty on the way... this game is already to hard to advance and frustrating at first. We need to fix that.