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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: skejwen on December 22, 2010, 08:14:35 am
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As in subject: using Cyrillic font in character name should be disabled. Why? Since not everyone is able to read it, and since its English speaking server.
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(...) using Cyrillic font in character name should be disabled (...)
I say: disable cyrillic totally, it's ancient TLA legacy that should be removed long time ago.
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This way it will be a lot easier for non Russian speakers to remember the name of the Russian who just PK'd you.
Now seriously, I don't think I can personally agree with this. After all, I always bitch about not having this letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%91) in FOnline.
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I would say no to disabling it totally. Its easier to read Cyrillic than its transliteration to Latin ;)
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UTF-8 or bust!
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Absolutely agree.
I thought that nobody will want agree with it, but as i see it was mistake.
Totally removing cyrillic is a little bit much for me, but we will see.
So yes, disable for naming characters !
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Disable it from server totally or even name creation.
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I am against. How else could you recognize pk now? Cyrilic name = PKs cyrilic speech = PKs. With no client colorizing or server colorizing everyone would look just even more similar. And we would lose many jokes in cyrilic on radio 0 which we cannot read. xD
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I am against!!!!
There are many russian players that preffers 2238 over TLA or other fallout online modifications. This step would be step back. Even russian TLA server enable latin and cyrilic, and they are even TRANSLATING russian texts (even quests) into english so more players not from russian speaking countires could play that game. At moment, when server is fighting battle for individual players this would be capitulation to russian part of community.
Second thing is, that is hard to remember nicks in cyrilic. But there was solution, very elegant, but it would need to enable old colourizing system and we are at the endless discussion if colourizing kills or helps server community.
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I am against. How else could you recognize pk now? Cyrilic name = PKs cyrilic speech = PKs. With no client colorizing or server colorizing everyone would look just even more similar. And we would lose many jokes in cyrilic on radio 0 which we cannot read. xD
And how you can now recognize 3 almost same nicks in cirillic ? So what is harder ? Recognize 3 nicks in latin(RaiderAB, Fucker01, SexyBitch) or 3 nicks in cirillic(привет, иветпр, еирвпт) ?
Lordus: Topic is about "Disable Cirillic for naming characters", not for whole cirillic alphabet in game, then i am too against, it will be step back if they will turn off whole cirillic alphabet, but again, its not case of topic.
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Disable it
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And how you can now recognize 3 almost same nicks in cirillic ? So what is harder ? Recognize 3 nicks in latin(RaiderAB, Fucker01, SexyBitch) or 3 nicks in cirillic(привет, иветпр, еирвпт) ?
You dont need to recognize cyrilic names. They are all same: just very dangerous NPCs. :P
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And how you can now recognize 3 almost same nicks in cirillic ? So what is harder ? Recognize 3 nicks in latin(RaiderAB, Fucker01, SexyBitch) or 3 nicks in cirillic(привет, иветпр, еирвпт) ?
You know we had succesfull system of implementing cyrilic nicks into colourizing. So there was solution.
It is always battle of principles, ideas. Whats more important?
Recognize player names or prevent to knock out this server by major cutting of from russian fallout online community?
I answered not only to first topic, but even to others, about eliminating whole cyrilic. To check how many players are using cyrilic, tune radio to channel 0 and look at cyrilic text.. At moment, when i was still active, there was half to half texts in cyrilic and latin. Every measure against russian players is step back, even i know there are mostly PKs,... . But look at number of playing players right now. This will not help.
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You know very well, same as me that they dont want, for some reason old colorizing back, i want it too.
Skejwen suggested that it wil not be possible to have characters with cirillic letters, and its usefull thing for recognizing players without colorizing. And as said Skejwen, not everyone is able to read it + i dont see any reason why russian testers cant have nicks in latin same as others, like chinese, africans,mongols,north koreans,brazilians and etc
If someone want disable whole cirillic from server then i am against.
And i dont think that massive wave of russian players will leave server because they cant have nick in cirillic alphabet.
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I dont know if i will start play on server where i can not use name in my language..
Maybe solution could be, that there should be some kind of translator from cyrilic to latin and you should be able to turn in on or off. So you will see their names in latin. But every step that could lead into lost of russian community is bad, because there are not many players they will replace them.
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I dont know if i will start play on server where i can not use name in my language..
Maybe solution could be, that there should be some kind of translator from cyrilic to latin and you should be able to turn in on or off. So you will see their names in latin. But every step that could lead into lost of russian community is bad, because there are not many players they will replace them.
Question is not if you start play there but if you will "leave" server where you play some time
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I say NO !!! It is rasizm and ethnic minorities discrimination !!!
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I say NO !!! It is rasizm and ethnic minorities discrimination !!!
Oh comon ::)
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Question is not if you start play there but if you will "leave" server where you play some time
Russian players often migrates.. last era they moved from TLA to 2238, then back to TLA, now to Requiem server. Disable cyrilic and you will close doors to them. Disable cyrilic nicks only and you will tell them, you are not welcome here.
But devs will do what they want, if they want empty server, it will be their decision. I only offered opposite reaction that even i have russian PKs, i dont like changes that could eliminate part of community.
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Russian players often migrates.. last era they moved from TLA to 2238, then back to TLA, now to Requiem server. Disable cyrilic and you will close doors to them. Disable cyrilic nicks only and you will tell them, you are not welcome here.
But devs will do what they want, if they want empty server, it will be their decision. I only offered opposite reaction that even i have russian PKs, i dont like changes that could eliminate part of community.
They moved to Requiem because there is more fun that on 2238 right now ? You think that they will leave because they cant use cirillic and i say no. We will see ...
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I am for complete disabling of cyrillic. Already said that long time ago in some topic.
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HELL NO!!!!
Ok, if you want to get online/2 then move on, implement your nazi suggestions.
How about to disable poland speech as well? Otherwise, it's not fair. If you think server will win of getting rid of Russian players, then...
Anyone can press F3 and make a nice screenshot btw. No need to read.
P.S. Disable nick "skejwen" - becaise it is non english. For me it is hard to read and to memorize. The same goes for LESNIY JEBAKA, PAWLOWICZ and whatever east europian nicks.
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... since its English speaking server.
BAN all who are using other then english language coz its "English speaking server"
If someone will use his native language on RADIO - > Ban coz its "English speaking server"
Someone will use his native language to speak with friends in towns -> BAN them all coz "English speaking server"
And so on..
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THIS IS NOT RACISM
here is a small list of why removing the russian cyrlics in game is not racism and benefical for every one:
- russians can move to TLA or make a SDK for themselfs that has the gameplay of 2238
- we can't add them to our gang NC or to our personal NC, so we will have to fear every russian named caracter, so this is an advangage for russian names
- this way we will not accidentaly chache to crylic, and for the noobs that don't know what they did to be the end of the world
[/color]
so i totaly argee
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Better implement something new *) than remove features from game.
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Iits backstabbing, fonline comes from russians and someone take it and remove russian language, its backstab:P
Instead of suggestin shit like this, better get your lazy asses to work and make some filter or just learn russians letters.
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Im for removing cyrylic names. But thats it. Let them communicate as they want.
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Iits backstabbing, fonline comes from russians and someone take it and remove russian language, its backstab:P
Better implement something new *) than remove features from game.
Neither of these reasons aren't sufficient to explain why cyrillic names shouldn't be removed. They make it hard to recognize a character, what's so hard to understand in that?
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First READ topic, then UNDERSTAND it... and for now just cut the crap.
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Oh. My. God. So many butt-hurt in a single topic! :o I wonder to know, why do you hate Cyrillic and Russians so much? Maybe some Russian killed your friend and shit? Or maybe some other Russian stole something from you... or... or... well, you got it. LOL, I believe that if you had a chance to launch a couple of real nuke rockets to Russia, you would do that.
Seriously, come on, this server is dying already and if some shit like that would be implemented, you actually can loose A LOT of players. It's not a problem to make a characters with English names, it's a matter of principle.
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let's see what a dev has to say with this, is there game, let's see what they think
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On august, when devs banned all chars that used FOCD (only little explanation: i was not banned!), many of our players migrates to TLA server. Most of TLA is in russian language. Even basic text in base computers. I requested little help how to add and remove players from our base on TLA on their forum, i get immediately respond that i am f.....g @$%^@#%* because our gang had base even many others long playing russian players did not have, but i also i get immediately help how to manage my problem with notice, that they will translate into english more texts.
After few days, this base computer managment was translated into english!!!! I was very glad that there exist positive reactions and help to non russian players.
From begining of 2238, there was not any similar effort to do same on this server (except russian subforum). And even you want to eliminate this little, what holds russian and other players of fallout online community together. Very sad.
And information that you cannot input cyrilic names into colourizing is not true. In old colourizing, we used aplicaiton that elegantly inputs that nicks into colourizing.. So this is not problem.
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HELL NO!!!!
Ok, if you want to get online/2 then move on, implement your nazi suggestions.
How about to disable poland speech as well? Otherwise, it's not fair. If you think server will win of getting rid of Russian players, then...
Anyone can press F3 and make a nice screenshot btw. No need to read.
P.S. Disable nick "skejwen" - becaise it is non english. For me it is hard to read and to memorize. The same goes for LESNIY JEBAKA, PAWLOWICZ and whatever east europian nicks.
Its really not an argument. Polish language and any other language in Europe use latin alphabet so ...
And for all, its just stupid paranioa. He want only dissable cirillic in nicks, not in whole game for god ...
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only in the names at least so we can add them easly in NC
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only in the names at least so we can add them easly in NC
It was not any problem for old colourizing... We already solved that.
And again. On TLA, they are "only" translating quest text into english, you want here "only" eliminate cyrilic nicks..
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Its not me nor you who decide. Its just suggestion. There are listed points why its good step.
And there is only one worthy answer in this whole mess:
UTF-8 or bust!
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They make it hard to recognize a character, what's so hard to understand in that?
Maybe for someone, who's narrow-minded.
BTW. It's also hard to recognize English-nickname characters by Russians.
Why not disable latin alphabet in nicks on 2238? Many Russians can't read latin, and there is a big Russian community on this server.
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There is already TLA for russian players.. why they just cant play with it?
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Maybe for someone, who's narrow-minded.
What does someone's national bias have to do with his ability to read, write and recognize foreign letters?
BTW. It's also hard to recognize English-nickname characters by Russians.
Why don't they ever mention that? I've never seen any russian mentioning that they can't read latin letters correctly.
Why not disable latin alphabet in nicks on 2238? Many Russians can't read latin, and there is a big Russian community on this server.
Because 2238 is multinational server. If you compare to most multiplayer games around, they are based on latin letters because that's what most players understand to read.
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Im too for removing cyrillic names on 2238.
First, Lordus, it was fucking tedious job to add cyrillic names into NC ( for me, as a non-russian speaker/writer ).
Second, you ( russian players ) have this privilege only because of russian origins of this game, and I ask, why cant I use special characters like ľščťžýáíéúäňô in my nickname while you can.
Were not talking about language, but about usage of alphabet - Asian countries cant use their, so why can you.
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Speaking of minorities....
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=12094.msg99655#msg99655
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Not bad suggestion for disable cyrlic because 2238 is english server.
Why are there add chinese language etc? :P
No because there're english.
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Well the problem is not about russian. It's just that names in cyrilic are imposssible to be recognized (and even pronounced) by non russian player. It would be the same thing for chinese caracters, or greek or whatever else. I don't care if they can speak in that language, let them the possibility, you can even add chinese for talking. But the only way to recognize someone in this game is name, and cyrillic don't allow recognition for most people, where almost everyone can read latin.
(ofc it would be different if we had a working name colorizing...)
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So result is, that on 2238 exist players, that are part of community and they dont want to eliminate cyrilic, even in name, in 2238, because they are not from latin writing countries. For me is very important to write name/nick in latin even on TLA server and i fully understand them.
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So result is, that on 2238 exist players, that are part of community and they dont want to eliminate cyrilic, even in name, in 2238, because they are not from latin writing countries.
If there are russian players who cannot read latin, how are they supposed to participate in testing if the general testing language for writing reports is made in english and with latin letters?
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If there are russian players who cannot read latin, how are they supposed to participate in testing if the general testing language for writing reports is made in english and with latin letters?
I think that it is matter of propriety. Major part of community is from Russia, main programator too (Cvet), players often migrate from one server to another depends on entertaiment, playability, phase of era .... . This step will be little vulgar. And now we are in situation, when players are leaving and this would not help at all to solve this problem. Thats all from me :)
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I think that it is matter of propriety. Major part of community is from Russia, main programator too (Cvet), players often migrate from one server to another depends on entertaiment, playability, phase of era .... . This step will be little vulgar. And now we are in situation, when players are leaving and this would not help at all to solve this problem. Thats all from me :)
But we dont solving problem of "massive leaving from server" ...
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But we dont solving problem of "massive leaving from server" ...
We are counting advantages and disadvantages of disabling cyrilic (nicks) in 2238. So yes, "migration" is part of this problem too, like other dis(advantages) me or somebody else wrote. And as i remember, you were friend of CND, russian players that last era joined North Alliance. Seriously, i dont think they will come back again, if client would be Russia (cyrilic) hostile..
But maybe this discusion is absolutely useless. I know that 2238 devs are desperade and often dependent to Cvet and Cvet would not program special kind of client only for this server. And as i know troubles during eliminating TC bugs (and many others), best result of cyrilic elimination would be simplified chineese.
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We are counting advantages and disadvantages of disabling cyrilic (nicks) in 2238. So yes, "migration" is part of this problem too, like other dis(advantages) me or somebody else wrote. And as i remember, you were friend of CND, russian players that last era joined North Alliance. Seriously, i dont think they will come back again, if client would be Russia (cyrilic) hostile..
But maybe this discusion is absolutely useless. I know that 2238 devs are desperade and often dependent to Cvet and Cvet would not program special kind of client only for this server. And as i know troubles during eliminating TC bugs (and many others), best result of cyrilic elimination would be simplified chineese.
If you remember CND so almost all from them had nick in latin (A. Buthurt, C. Landa, etc)...
Strange that they could nick in latin and "some" russians which you defending here cant. Didnt remember that they had any problem with nick in latin.
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What does someone's national bias have to do with his ability to read, write and recognize foreign letters?
It's just that names in cyrilic are imposssible to be recognized (and even pronounced) by non russian player.
I can read cyrilic. I'm non-russian. It's a matter of few days to learn that, I don't see the problem.
As I said, someone has to be narrow-minded...
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I can read cyrilic. I'm non-russian. It's a matter of few days to learn that, I don't see the problem.
As I said, someone has to be narrow-minded...
Yeah, but cirillic isnt most typeface on the world right ?
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No. But on 2238 - it's majority.
It's like... A tribute to the FOnline engine maker. And the big Russian community.
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how about just to allow players to see cyrillic as latin if they want? Could work vice versa as well I believe. ( correct me if cyrillic is not a-z )
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It's not.
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Ah I see, therfore it is not possible to write english sentences in cyrillic and it's not possible to write russian language in latin either.
For names however, phonetical rewrites might still be better than not being able to comprehend or write name at all.
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it's not possible to write russian language in latin either.
Nope. We can do that. It's called transliteration.
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I dont get it. What is the reason for such suggestion? Failed to learn 33 letters?
Name colorizing? Only namecolorizing we have - click then pick a devil guy.
So only reason to exclude cyrilic names is discrimination
My suggestion vs this - implement an option. If somebody want to - he switches to AUTOTRANSLIT for Cyrillic names.
And everyone is happy
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English server should have no cyrylic PERIOD. Russians have TLA and their own SDK... and the SDK is not english so why should we be so generous
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English server should have no cyrylic PERIOD
Ok, you hate Russians and don't want to play with them. Please quit fonline as Cvet... (you know)
NOT FAIR NOT FAIR - because Russians cannot use native language without Cyrillic.
So everybody will have ability to speak native language except Russians. Great idea!
Russians have TLA and their own SDK...
Yes, you need as low online as it possible. So you can farm without been pked. May be it's you should start your own server for your own and your Russians haters pals?
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Guys what the hell is you're problem? We don't talking about removing cyrillic from game. Only disable it for naming characters. Damn, chinese, coreans or greek can't even talk in game in their own alphabet, I wouldn't mind if they could. As long I can read their name. Same goes for russian. I have nothing against them, don't have been more PKed by them, nothing personal against them. I just want to be able to read their name.
Oh and Floodnik. You're not russian and can understand it. Great. Can you understand chinese (I guess you're not) ?
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Well, it's not a new suggestion and we would have done it already, if we would be able to do it.
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Oh and Floodnik. You're not russian and can understand it. Great. Can you understand chinese (I guess you're not) ?
Hm, Lemme think how many Chinese players are on 2238. 1? 0?
Plus, cyryllic is a feature that's already in the game. Chinese would have to be implemented.
Plus, cyryllic is 27 letters. Chinese is around 5 thousand characters. Can you see the difference?
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Yeah yeah, blah blah blah...
Author of this suggestion was talking about removing player NAMES which are writed in cyryllic and this is what we supposed to talk about. It makes sense because its hard to recognize players.
About yor offtopic conversation: It doesnt matter is they will write in russian using cyryllic or latin alphabet. If you don't know russian you won't understand it anyway either in latin or cyrillic alphabet. Same goes with any other language.
Let's focus on topic.
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Well, it's not a new suggestion and we would have done it already, if we would be able to do it.
Well, end of the line I think ;p
Floodnik: it's funny, I guess you don't read my post (and even other ones), just watch 2-3 key word to reply. Or maybe you're just dumb, I am not sure.
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Yeah, it's funny. I told you what I think. Since there are many Russians on 2238, I am for leaving cyryllic in nicknames. And if it's really a problem for you, you could just learn these 27 letters.
You didn't contrargument these from what I see. So what should we do now?
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Disable it
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There are many russians on 2238, let them name they chars in cyrillic.
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I don't mean to be ignorant, racist, intolerant or simply rude... but I am... so that's the way it comes out: we should disable it
and that's just because we can't tell the difference between one name and another, and we tend to recognize all cyrillic nicks as potential pks, thieves and other wasteland scum... and that is very, very wrong.
disable it so we can once again be toletant and all-peace-full-like and stuff like that, because nicks would no longer cause a bad first impression
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If Name colourizing would be enabled this wouldint be a problem...
Anyways, i am unsure about this, the cyrillics ingame chatting doesint matter though(but you should be able to disable the lang switch command totally for yourself, i accidently click on the "change languge" button every third day... and i know others are doing too) people are speaking diffrent languages anyways.
Without name colourizing i think the cyrillics in names are not working properly, (name colourizing acted instead of situational retelling the players name, recognizing players by their name) you cant remember or read cyrillics unless you know what they mean in most cases.
With name colourizing like pre-wipe, i think its no problem though.
I would for other, disable symbols like: -
Edit: Or, you can have a button that when you press it down it translates from Cyrillics to Latin, although, i am not sure if its possible languge wise, dont know Cyrillics.
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Seems like this topic is solved, but I need to react to few posts
Some of you argued, that there are a lot of russian players, even majority (sources please ?) - apart from Rogues, SOT to be accurate, I dont know any other bigger gang on 2238. Same thing goes about chinese players, you cant know how many active chinese players are playing atm - they have their own subforum, so I dont think its 0-1 players.
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Nope. We can do that. It's called transliteration.
then it should be done automaticly to english clients ( players with latin charset used and option to do this turned on )
that would be win-win situation
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then it should be done automaticly to english clients ( players with latin charset used and option to do this turned on )
that would be win-win situation
Heh :) As some gm's like to say to every second suggestion: "this would require engine changes". And since no one of dev team are able (or willing) to do this, this will be never implemented. Which was proved by Lexx.
Seems like this topic is solved, but I need to react to few posts
Some of you argued, that there are a lot of russian players, even majority (sources please ?) - apart from Rogues, SOT to be accurate, I dont know any other bigger gang on 2238. Same thing goes about chinese players, you cant know how many active chinese players are playing atm - they have their own subforum, so I dont think its 0-1 players.
Sarakin, there is more Russian gangs than you mentioned, maybe you just don't know all of them. Here is just a few I can clearly remember: Mukhosransk city (it was really big pre-wipe, like 50-100 players or so), BBN (Banda Untitled) and of course SoT (which unites a few smaller gangs). I'm not even speaking about small gangs, but only these three had like 150 or more people totally.
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Burn and disable
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Wow, 5 pages, and the sugestion is pointless since a engine change is needed and only the 'ruskies' know how to do it.
Maybe there's a chance to edit the font used for a client side hack to replace cyrilic with latin characters?
Anyway I'm still for Unicode.
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Well, it's not a new suggestion and we would have done it already, if we would be able to do it.
Now that everything important has been said, this thread can sleep peacefully now.
Locked.