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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Marko69 on January 23, 2010, 01:31:03 pm

Title: Critical hits explained
Post by: Marko69 on January 23, 2010, 01:31:03 pm
[edit by the dev team] This is wrong, sorry ;) for better info, check http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1188.msg10637#msg10637

First you need to make difference between CRITICAL CHANCE and CRITICAL HIT.

Critical chance
is a chance to score a critical hit, based on % of your chance and on a dice roll.
So for example, if you have 6% chance for critical hit, its: 6+ random number(dice roll 1-100)
If dice rolled 97 then its 6+97 = 103 Critical hit.
If dice is 93 > 93+6 = 99 Failed to critical hit, and normal hit applies.

You can increase this chance by 10 with finesse and +5 for each more critical perk (max 3)

So a dude with 10 luck finesse and 3x more critical will have: 10+10+15 = 35%    35+65 = 100 critical hit. So needs only 65+ on roll to score critical. Roll is computer based random number.

When you score a critical, there is another roll for critical damage that adds to base weapon damage.

Base weapon damage is the damage given on inv. screen when you equip a weapon.
Living anatomy gives +5 dmg, bonus ranged damage gives +2 dmg. (x2) so from 3 perks you can have 2+2+5 = +9 to base dmg of weapon.

Critical damage works with another dice roll. The dice roll is divided on this values:

0-20
21-45
46-70
71-90
91-100
101+

You can find their effects and damage modifier here: http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables

How this works. A random dice roll is rolled from 1 to 100, depending on the number it scores, the following critical applies.
For example you get 75 (71-90) on roll, you aimed in left arm:
left arm crippled, armor ignored, double damage

to get 101+ you need Better Critical perk which increases roll by 20%

so you aim in torso, you pass the check for critical hit, you get 90 on roll for critical damage and you have better critical:

20% of 90 is 18 ;   90+18 = 108 >>> super critical >>> damage x3 , instant death.

Torso and eyes give instant death:
If you shot with bb-gun and character has 250hp, he is hit for 250hp.
If he had 1hp he is hit for 1hp.
If you shot with Plasma rifle and he has 1hp, damage will be only the base damage of plasma rifle, so he will then have -29 hp.

Combat armor has helmet so it prevents eye damage. Best aimed shot is in groin against combat armors. But I've been giving good damage in eyes to combat armored players so do as you like.

You can cause instant kill with any weapon, even punching in eyes or torso, that's why I've given bb-gun as example.

PvP with criticals and better critical is like gambling. I suggest to go out with certain damage weapon, and high agility, and leave the critical hits to the game engine.
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Szef on January 23, 2010, 02:18:05 pm
One thing. Aimed shots got their bonus to critical. So with base 6 Luck (minimum for players using More Crits):

In the past their got
Base 60% for aiming eyes (as I remember) + max 15 (3x More crit) + 6 (LK bonus) +10 (finesse) -> 91% (as I remember..)

Now it's [50%+(5*L)%]*base 60% => 48% + max 15 + 6 + 10 = 79% for typical sniper with finesse (almost 4/5 of shots) and 69% for non-finesse sniper (slightly more than 2/3 of shots) go critical.

Still, It's more difficult at now to achieve an eye-shot.

Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 23, 2010, 02:26:39 pm
almost accurate ... few tings

based on pseudocode posted by Atom :
Living anatomy is applied after burst /crit /armor reduction - so it doesnt benefit from burst , crit but is not reduced by armor either.

those are more accurate crit tables then those on wikia http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables
there is said taht better criticals add 20 to roll rather then 20% - not sure if its true..
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2010, 04:34:47 pm
2238 critical tables are different to those :)
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Berko on January 23, 2010, 04:41:43 pm
Critical tables have changed for human and someone has post a new one somewhere in this forum. (maybe not the final version)
Less bypass armor, less crippled, less death and some change (dropped weapon, ..)
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 23, 2010, 06:27:53 pm
this is what i digged up on this forum posted as the crit tables Fonline uses
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24650606/Crits

it was psoted by user and its not said to be final but those tables show how nerfed was critical . while ealier bypass armor happened in any critical aimed at eyes/head with better critical, now it will only happen in 20% of crits for eye/head.

Also most special effects are hard to kick in - if my guess is right and stat check is 1d10 vs target_Stat + modifier - then most of special effects wont happen (expecially thso endurance checks)
that leaves only arm aimed shots to have good effect - however arm criticals are much ahrder to achive (30% crit bonus vs 60 for eyes).
Now add at top of that that finesse add that static 30% DR  - result ?

Enemy dont need tesla vs you, a brotherhood + finesee  = 100% DR and you have only 20% chance to bypass that .... do i have to say lol ?

srlsy while i knew the tables were nerfed i couldnt iamgine it was so haard  - its like "use big guns or be nub" -_-
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Marko69 on January 23, 2010, 08:53:29 pm
yes, but you always have that chance to score an instant kill with better criticals :)
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 23, 2010, 09:02:43 pm
yes, but you always have that chance to score an instant kill with better criticals :)
based on those tables i linked you cant have istant kill ...well 4x damage with bypass will hit alot but it will depand on the weapon roll
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2010, 09:05:05 pm
Those aren't the tables.
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 23, 2010, 09:14:27 pm
Those aren't the tables.
well yet the ones from F2 arnt those either .... 
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2010, 09:18:41 pm
Indeed, they appear to be gibberish
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 23, 2010, 09:23:48 pm
oh comon post real ones ;p

or at least estimate what % of crits can bypass armor , coz without that and w/o AP perk on energy weapons those are ntohign more then criplers...
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2010, 09:36:37 pm
Magneeto Pistols are armour piercing.

As for how often you can by pass armour. It depends on where you are targetting, who you are targetting and your perks, of course.

As an example, a normal char aiming for the eyes (max accuracy), target luck 6 and luck 6 but without better crits would have ~17% bypass chance each shot.

Any more than that would have to wait until I get home and can edit the spreadsheet I used to make the new table - office isn't activated where I am at the moment, so its read only :P
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 23, 2010, 09:43:27 pm
w8 17% chance of crit or 17% of hit ?

target luck 6 and luck 6 that means there is attacker vs target luck check ? Oo i think it used to be just regular check roll ...

if it would 17% of crit w/o better criticals then it would be smth around 35% with betters ? (dont have real idea what to think about targets luck here)

however its 17% of hit -> eye shot with 6 luck is 48 bonus crit , base crit is 6% - that makes 54% to crit assuming no ther bonuses
then the % to bypasss armor on crit would be 17*100/crit % -> ~34% for 54% crit chances in eyes...


afaik Magneto pisol only penetrates the DT not DR and for energy weapons mostly DR is the pain as for finease fellas its almost alwayes above 60% and up to 120 ...


Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on January 23, 2010, 09:58:32 pm
Every shot has 17% chance of being armour bypass.

There is no target vs attacker luck roll, the attacker luck is factored in because I was including the chance for the shot to be a critical.


Magneeto is indeed just piercing (DT/5).
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: jodwig on January 23, 2010, 10:29:37 pm
Marko69 sorry but you are wrong... That what you wrote is true in Fallout 2 (but not everything), but in FOnline critical hits had many changes.
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Attero on January 28, 2010, 12:20:18 pm
gonna bump it coz i have a question connected ..

what about NPC's (ritters / humanoids ) are the critical tables same for those or they stayed like in F2 ?
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on January 28, 2010, 01:45:31 pm
They changed too, as did ghoul and super mutant tables ... aswell as a few minor changes here and there on some other critters.
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Atom on January 28, 2010, 05:24:27 pm
It's bad that I noticed this thread only today. So let me write the correct version for "Critical hits explained".

In Fallout 2:

First, the chance for a critical hit. It's percentage value is a sum of Bonus Critical Chance (gained from Luck, Finesse and More Criticals perks and aimed shot) and a base chance, that depends on the main attack roll. It is equal to the difference of your tohit chance, and the actual d100 number rolled when determining whether the attack was a hit or a miss, divided by ten, rounded down.

So, for example, if you're shooting an opponent with 95% hit chance, and you rolled 64 (which means a hit), then your base chance is (95-64)/10 = 3.1 [%], rounded to 3%.

Final critical chance for a character with 6 Luck and no relevant perks and traits aiming for enemy head would be therefore (3 + 6 + 40)%.

That's right - the main attack roll is used not only for determining the hit/miss, but counts for a critical hit (or failure) chance too.

Now assume that the attack was a critical hit. Follow the http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables . Multiplier is applied to the base weapon damage, which is increased by the Bonus Ranged or Bonus Melee damage, but NOT increased by the Living Anatomy. This is also done simultaneously with the ammo damage modifiers.


In Fonline:

There are theree main differences: first is the reworked critical hit table (still WIP).
Second, there is a separate critical hit table for an uncalled shot (they were present in FO2, but unused; uncalled shots were identical to torso shots).
Third, the critical chance bonus from aimed shot is reduced to (50 + Luck*5)% of the original value (Luck 6 and eyes gives (50+6*5)% of 60%, which is equal to 48%).

Also, http://fonlinedocs.netii.net/fo2calg.pdf - explains the FO2 critical chance in a more ordered fashion, as well as the critical failures.
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Diegtariew on January 28, 2010, 05:59:32 pm
Atom, could you publish that new critical table? It can not be a mystery, which will ruin the game and more, your developmnet.
It could be a pretty thing to know differenties to original FO2 critical table.

I am interesting in changes to damage multiplier, effects, tested stats, test modifiers etc.
Knowing that values could help to optimize playing during fights, and not only ;)
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Roachor on January 28, 2010, 08:22:58 pm
I made a 95% crit aimed shot hth char and he does about 1/4 the damage of my non crit brute damage fast shot hth char.
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: trader on March 15, 2010, 11:16:37 am
I have 1 question soo if critical chance formula is (critical table for example eyes shoot 50% + 5* luck) so with 10 luck it will be 100% of 60% so 60% and what about more critics perk in this situation its usles or is it something like that (50 + critical chance + 5*luck) of 60% ??
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on March 15, 2010, 01:38:22 pm
Its would be 60% + 5% for more criticals
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: trader on March 15, 2010, 02:08:33 pm
So with 10 luck and 3* more critics the critical chance chance of eyes should look like this (50+5*10)+15% from perks and +10% from luck yes ?? or only (50+5*10)+15% ??
Title: Re: Critical hits explained
Post by: Solar on March 15, 2010, 02:49:46 pm
Quote
should look like this (50+5*10)+15% from perks and +10%