fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: ElSlayer on December 06, 2010, 06:08:29 pm
-
Description of problem:
If you arriving to encounter you have to wait while current cycle of combatants' turns ends. Then a new cycle started and you included in it. Sequence determines who will play first and who next.
Sometimes and interesting thing happens when you arriving to encounter where another player already fighting in TB mode.
1) If you arrive on another player's turn or before it, he can use his APs to shoot you, and you won't have opportunity to take any actions until new cycle of turns.
2) When new cycle of turns starts, sequence determines order of turns. So:
- If he has higher sequence (or his sequence is same as yours but server decided give him to play first) he will unload another (SECOND) bunch of bullets in your body.
- If your sequence is higher (or same and you play first) then actually order of turns is saved (he didn't played twice in a row) but still he was played first even with lower sequence.
Here is example to make it clear:
Actors:
You - the guy who arrives
Player 1, Player 2, Player 3 - other players that currently farming encounter in TB mode
Critter 1, Critter 2, Critter 3, Critter 4 - critters they farm
[Begin cycle]
1.Critter's 1 turn - has 16 sequence
---------------------------------------------------------------------------<<<<<You arrive but can't do actions until next cycle.
2.Player's 1 turn - has 14 sequence (equal to 7 PE with no trait or perks) Shoots you
3.Critter's 2 turn - has 12
4.Critter's 3 turn - has 12
5.Player's 2 turn - has 12 (6 PE with no trait or perks) Shoots you
6.Player's 3 turn - has 10 (5 PE with no trait or perks) Shoots you
7.Critter's 4 turn - has 8
[End cycle]
Next cycle
According to your sequence - for example 12 (6 PE with no trait or perks)
and some random roll I suppose (because server have to choose where to place you - before, between or after 3,4,5)
you have placed between 5 and 6.
[Begin cycle]
1.Critter's 1 turn - has 16 sequence
2.Player's 1 turn - has 14 sequence (equal to 7 PE with no trait or perks) Shoots you
3.Critter's 2 turn - has 12
4.Critter's 3 turn - has 12
5.Player's 2 turn - has 12 (6 PE with no trait or perks) Shoots you
6.Your turn (if you have survived)
7.Player's 3 turn - has 10 (5 PE with no trait or perks) Shoots you
8.Critter's 4 turn - has 8
[End cycle]
In that example both players (Player 1 with higher sequence than yours and Player 2 with same sequence as your) made 2 turns before you.
Also Player 3 (with lower sequence than yours) made one turn before you.
So here we have a problem of breaking the sequence or even double turn in a row.
That is how I see that problem. I can be wrong or just not precise, but it seems to me that it works like I've described. If you have any another info about arriving in encounter - please correct me.
Another problem is in bug that was reported in topic named The Loading Screen Freezes If You Get Shot Before You Load The Encounter (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=11668.0)
Solution of problems:
1) Make player arrive between cycles, not inside of it.
It gives us the right order of turns - according to combatants sequence. It allows to avoid double turns in a row.
It will also rise the majority of sequence, giving wider choice when generating character - maybe somebody will start to take "Kamikaze" trait or high perception (or even shitty "Earlier Sequence" perk ;))
2) Make cycle not to start before all arriving players loaded the encounter (or with some pause for loading in case that player can get disconnected while loading and the game will freeze in waiting)
3) Make player appear in encounter after he loaded (even in Real-Time mode)
Allows us avoid bug with loading screen.
-
AYE! it's very annoying... this only happened to me when caravans/cars showed up on worldmap though but still.
-
So I went hunting Unity with a bunch of people gathered at NCR. We didn't even have any serious gear, went there just for fun. When we found Unity there was also a group of players inside and they got 2 turns before we had a chance to use our first. Can anyone explain to me how does TB mode works? By the time we got our turns half of us were dead.
-
You fall into an already existing TB encounter, that is, in the middle of an already existing TB combat *turn*. This turn ends, the next one starts, but your sequence is lower than the other guys', so they can play first, and you get gunned.
-
yep, the sequence... its determined by your perception btw
-
It's wierd that they to get 2 turns while you just get pummled, i noticed this long time ago and thought wtf.
I know seq is based on perception, but it really feels like you lose a turn. It just feels wrong.
-
You fall into an already existing TB encounter, that is, in the middle of an already existing TB combat *turn*. This turn ends, the next one starts, but your sequence is lower than the other guys', so they can play first, and you get gunned.
Yeah let's say our perception was lower thus lower sequence. But still, it should mean that turns are given out based on sentence, not who entered the encounter first. We entered an enco and it's like we weren't there - enemies had 2 turns and npc had their 2 turns and only after that we got ours. How is that based on sequence? This is bullshit.
-
I think it's simply because you entered in the middle of the round, so you didn't have
your turn during the round (because you weren't in the map when the sequence for
this round was generated). On the next round some people have higher sequence,
so in the result they might have 2 turns before your first turn, especially if you
entered at the beginning of the round. So basically if you enter existing TB you lose
the current round, although it's not visible if you enter near the end of the round.
It's not really unfair, because otherwise you could have 2 turns before the people
who were there already and very often you can choose if you want to enter or not,
people inside have no choice.
A solution could be allowing enter TB maps with combat only at the end of the round,
after everyone moved. I'm not sure if it would be possible though.
-
I think it's simply because you entered in the middle of the round, so you didn't have
your turn during the round (because you weren't in the map when the sequence for
this round was generated). On the next round some people have higher sequence,
so in the result they might have 2 turns before your first turn, especially if you
entered at the beginning of the round. So basically if you enter existing TB you lose
the current round, although it's not visible if you enter near the end of the round.
Exactly, that is what I was saying in my post and also the explanation given in the topic I linked.
It's not really unfair, because otherwise you could have 2 turns before the people
who were there already and very often you can choose if you want to enter or not,
people inside have no choice.
The only fair way would be to allow entering TB maps with combat only at the end
of the round, after everyone moved. I'm not sure if it would be possible though.
I agree that it's not 100% unfair but it really would be awesome to be able to jump on an already existing TB encounter and slaughter (or at least attack) everyone while they're fighting each other.
I bet this is hard or maybe even impossible to do, but let's say if you detect the encounter (with Outdoorsman) and choose to enter the encounter, the server waits until the turn is over and then it puts your character/party in it, and you get to move/attack first but only in that first turn. Next turn, sequence keeps working normally.
Right now, TB farming is really easy with laser spammers and M60 dabblebarstah's, it would be a little more risky and exciting if another party of players could jump on you anytime.
-
It's not really unfair, because otherwise you could have 2 turns before the people
who were there already and very often you can choose if you want to enter or not,
people inside have no choice.
The logic of 2238: if they had 2 turns and you had only 1 - It's not really unfair! Oh yeah...
I understand how "rounds" work, it doesn't change the fact that it's broken and shouldn't work in that way. If I enter during the round, it should go on as normal and on the next sequence roll it should exclude out the people who had their turns in previous round. That way it's fair. They had their turns, now we have ours.
-
People who had their turns in the previous round could have them before you entered.
Why should they lose their turn in the next round then?
-
People who had their turns in the round could have them before you entered.
Why should they lose their turn in the next round then?
They shouldn't. Where did I say that I should have an advantage of turns? All I'm asking for is equal amount of turns for everyone.
-
OK, what if 1 person enters in the beginning of the round (maybe even an ally of people inside)
and 10 people at the end of it? The result would be everyone who made a turn would be blocked
in the next round except those 10 guys, although nobody could harm them in the previous round
anyway. If they happen to have the highest sequence, they also get 2 turns, before anyone else
can move. I don't think you thought this through too well, sorry.
-
OK, what if 1 person enters in the beginning of the round (maybe even an ally of people inside)
and 10 people at the end of it? The result would be everyone who made a turn would be blocked
in the next round except those 10 guys, although nobody could harm them in the previous round
anyway. If they happen to have the highest sequence, they also get 2 turns, before anyone else
can move. I don't think you thought this through too well, sorry.
You are right, that's no good. But current system is not good either. So what's your point?
-
Currently sequence determines order of players. There should be an exception for player who enter TB combat. Rules are simple:
- player enters TB combat only after end of a turn
- player cannot be ordered after next player (in other words even if sequence of player is lower than sequence of next player system consider his sequence to be slightly higher than sequence of next player)
- player has to wait to the end of round
-
I understand how "rounds" work, it doesn't change the fact that it's broken and shouldn't work in that way. If I enter during the round, it should go on as normal and on the next sequence roll it should exclude out the people who had their turns in previous round. That way it's fair. They had their turns, now we have ours.
If anything, an interloper should get an automatic initative , at least in that first turn. Think about it in real world terms; here you are, killing XYZ's cause that's just what you do to pass the time, when some guy walks up. How could they have gotten into your battle without either side noticing? Your distracted, so that makes sense, but they didn't notice ANYTHING until they were in between the actual combatants? Not fair, and more importantly not realistic.
-
Maybe there should be a flat one turn advantage to whichever party has the better PE.
-
Maybe there should be a flat one turn advantage to whichever party has the better PE.
how does THAT make sense?
-
There should be some benefit to having good PE and OD; it should really be more about who stumbles onto who unawares.
-
There should be some benefit to having good PE and OD; it should really be more about who stumbles onto who unawares.
ok, excpt this is about a firefight already underway.......
-
how does THAT make sense?
There must be some mechanic responsible to determine the players turn, if it will be random, that certainly won't be good.
That's the case already and ...
You are right, that's no good. But current system is not good either. So what's your point?
until some better solution comes, nobody is going to change anything, that's her point.
-
There must be some mechanic responsible to determine the players turn, if it will be random, that certainly won't be good.
Well ya, thars obvious.