fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Andr3aZ on December 05, 2010, 09:29:13 pm
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Intro:
So I just had a talk about suggestions and the whole trolling and stuff that happens here.
It's a tough job to read all suggestions, i know, because i did it at everyday until one week ago.
Now there are a lot of troll, reposted, stupid suggestion, but also very good, sunken suggestions.
I would like to introduce a system that points out good suggestions to the developers to make it easier to read through decent suggestions without spending too much time. This system would safe a lot of work and nerves, for devs to look for nice ideas and for moderators which need to keep the forum clean of garbage.
Now to the system...
Add a vote-system for the suggestion forum to every thread made.
The Look:
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8382/stolenfromdys.jpg)
The mechanism:
You can sort by score to see which suggestion is currently most famous by forum users.
Why score? Devs decide which suggestion is implemented, not players!
This is an optional feature which helps dev to spot presumably good suggestions, it is not mandatory to pick these suggestions.
Suggestions which reach a score of -x are autojunked.
Why autojunked?
To help forum-moderators to sort out crappy/troll/reposted-without-new-ideas-added suggestions.
Isn't this abuseable?
No you can vote +2, +1 and -1, so decent or even better suggestions wont get junkvoted by some forumtrolls.
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I was just told this is impossible with forum-software.
If this is correct, feel free to junk this.
edit: seems it is possible.
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Impossible? Nope.
Quick googling for few minutes and you can find a plugin which does something similar:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1313
Maybe you can find even better plugin from that site.
e. For checking more carefully, that plugin actually doesn't support this version of SMF. But it's not impossible to do that. :)
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i think the auto-junk ahould de at -10 votes,cuz a tool can foe -1 at fist time
also the score of his ideea shoud be over 9000
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the score of his ideea shoud be over 9000
Over 100000000000000.
I really hope this suggestion becomes reality.
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Better would be a system where each suggestion is viewed by forum staff before it gets posted on Suggestions forum. Forum staff consists of GMs, Dishonest Abe, RJ, Misiolap, CptRookie, etc; these people are aware of what has been suggested before and what isn't worth suggesting.
Now that is for keeping the crap out of suggestions forum, but it can be made together with your idea, which isn't bad.
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I do like this suggestion. It can be daunting to look trough the vast amounts of material on the suggestion board, trying to filter out the things that don't fit from the good ideas.
Not sure if this will be possible with the current SMF (1.x) version. We might consider using some external tool, like the folks over at Ubuntu are using (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com) although I personally like having it all integrated into the forum more.
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I've seen this kind of system at work, pretty hard to show an example since the forum which used it got overhauled and the whole thing disappeared.
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Yah, the new Dystopia (http://www.dystopia-game.com/") forums are really shitty, after the devs started to go business. Sadly i got no old screenshots to show the thing here.
But if you sort your forum view after "Score", like i showed in my image, it would be look pretty much the same as back in the working system.
I can only show you an old suggestion which was autolocked due to user voting reached -10. As you can see, my post is the last one, after that this was automatically locked, i was no moderator there and no moderator manually locked it.
Link : http://punyhumangames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=19803 (http://punyhumangames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=19803)
This shows an ideal example how a crappy/troll suggestion (the OPs argument is : because its too much!) is sorted out of suggestions without any work of moderators/devs.
I've seen this kind of system at work, pretty hard to show an example since the forum which used it got overhauled and the whole thing disappeared.
psssst... look at the filename of my example picture ;D
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But doesn't this mean any troll gang can all make forum account and make a bunch of -1s and destroy threads to troll people as well? I don't like this suggestion that much...
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But doesn't this mean any troll gang can all make forum account and make a bunch of -1s and destroy threads to troll people as well? I don't like this suggestion that much...
read the suggestion again please...
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read the suggestion again please...
Isn't this abuseable?
No you can vote +2, +1 and -1, so decent or even better suggestions wont get junkvoted by some forumtrolls.
30+ gang making 30+ forum accounts all -1 a thread does not solve this -.-.
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I can't wait for all these botnets to start minusing all suggestions and automatically junklock them :> The "suggestions" forum being totally clear - yay! No more need to read all the suggestions, devs.
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30+ gang making 30+ forum accounts all -1 a thread does not solve this -.-.
Then a 30+ gang supporting the suggestion would all +2 a thread and we're at +30.
This system is tested and worked perfectly in a community where the number of forumtrolls would be almost higher than here. I cant believe someone would really do such excessive trolling as trolls usally dont really care about suggestions and dont even read them, they're busy trolling ingame ;)
As for last resolve, a moderator can still fix things up if shit hits the fan.
I can't wait for all these botnets to start minusing all suggestions and automatically junklock them :> The "suggestions" forum being totally clear - yay! No more need to read all the suggestions, devs.
Is that statement serious ?
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No more need to read all the suggestions, devs.
That part is clearly showing that I was ironic.
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That part is clearly showing that I was ironic.
alright, i am ok with irony, but botting is a point actually. i believe we have captcha styled security at forum registration which would handle that.
I also would ask you to refrain from jokin in a rather serious thread. I would like to have less useless posts that only take time to read and take the credibility of this suggestion.
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Actually if the software can do it, you shouldn't be able to + or - a suggestion without making a comment on it, botting problem solved.
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This system is tested and worked perfectly in a community where the number of forumtrolls would be almost higher than here. I cant believe someone would really do such excessive trolling as trolls usally dont really care about suggestions and dont even read them, they're busy trolling ingame ;)
As for last resolve, a moderator can still fix things up if shit hits the fan
I second this. The forum which used this scoring mechanism had even less users than we have so trollgangs could have taken over any time but it didn't happen. Surely there were some dumbasses who -voted everything for whatever reasons but in the end, the really good suggestions did make it to the top of scoreboard.
psssst... look at the filename of my example picture
lol!
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drags suggestion out of the realm of the forgotten ones
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Unless its a mile long suggestion. it takes about 5 seconds of reading to tell if the suggestion could/should be made or not.
Adding a poll like this means you'll either have to make forum accounts to vote, and to bump your thread so you can at least get your suggestion heared.
So i am against this. people have the right to suggest what they want and not get it auto-junked if no one votes for it in a days time.
-Ulrek-
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Adding a poll like this means you'll either have to make forum accounts to vote, and to bump your thread so you can at least get your suggestion heared.
So i am against this. people have the right to suggest what they want and not get it auto-junked if no one votes for it in a days time.
Have to make more accounts? If a suggy gets downvoted or doesn't even receive votes it means others aren't interested in it.
Besides, what comes to +votes, even if some suggestion had +100 votes it only means devs will pay some more attention to it. If it's boosted with multiaccounts it's still the same suggestion and doesn't get any better no matter how many +1votes it has. It just gets more attention, that's it.
Suggestions would get auto junked only if it receives enough -1 votes compared to plus votes.
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This also means that things suggested that might be unpopular with the player base but might actually balance/fix/or simply make the game better will get downvoted and ignored as well.
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who decides what is a good suggestion anyway?
At the end, we do not choose what gets implemented, so the community still can discuss about it but the final choice lays in devs' hands.
And yes, your point that this community is dumb enough to downvote something that would balance gameplay over their overpowered strategies might be true, but even then: these suggestions will not simply vanish, they are still there and i dont think with such voting systems everyone will only concentrate on top10 uservoted suggestions, especially devs/mods and gms who forward good (good in terms of quality, not votes) suggestions.
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I like it. Also it wouldnt hurt, if new users on this forum couldnt vote (for a while/till they get some posts), so there wont be any trollaccounts or hasty/inexperienced decisions. Or enable regular forum contributers to vote for more +/- points.
Maybe it doesnt belong here, but it could be also affected by reputation of each user (of course, reputation should be added first)
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I vote yes. Totally. Truly. Fully.
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Only if it is clearly stated, that it is not about Good or Bad suggestion. But, if it is constructive, or not constructive. Not the best words, but i bet you understand what i mean ;)
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Sorry to say this but this whole suggestion is hilarious - suggestion about suggestions. Seriously? Theres nothing more to suggest than this? This suggestion is meant for some fast-pace, constantly changing/developing project, where suggestions,especially the good ones are implemented reasonably fast, out of vast community, all reading and not posting similar ideas - but this couldnt be further from the truth.
As Izual said suggestion-dealing staff already reads and knows the suggestions. Better than that, devs/GMs/staff could make a "poll section" or list the problems or work to do to see what players would like devs to focus on first.
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This suggestion is meant for some fast-pace, constantly changing/developing project, where suggestions,especially the good ones are implemented reasonably fast, out of vast community, all reading and not posting similar ideas - but this couldnt be further from the truth.
this system was tested on a game that had the same update circles like fonline2238, sometimes even much longer.
And i can asure you, the community was posting the same crap over and over again and it was full of trolls.
Its tested, it worked. Why not use it here if devs wish to?
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I said that once and i will do again.
This is brilliant idea. Every suggestions should have its'.. let's call it "karma" level. Each forum member could vote:
1. I like it. (+2)
2. Good idea, but require corrections (+1)
3. I don't like it. (-2)
The threads with highest karma will appear on the top of the suggestions list, so every could read it. Threads with score -20 would be automatically moved to closed suggs.
Simple. Clear. Obvious.
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In addition a chance to change one's vote is also required. Someone who first votes something but is later convinced otherwise needs a chance to change his mind.
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In my opinion, like i stated above, is that some ideas are not "likeable". Not all changes are for most people to like them. Like nerfing things... A suggestion that is happy for everybody is not a good suggestion i mean, it falls more into category of Bug if it is 100% (100% good suggestion) obvious.
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I understand what you mean ktt, but i dont agree.
I think the players will NEVER say that they like something that is not fair or makes the game too easy. Fox example: to give all chars 200 more HPs. But they will MAYBE accept one extra hp per level. And maybe not.
In other words if you wont to know what suggestions is good, then post it. Explain it. And let people vote. If they will say: "yay! 200hp is so kewl!" then it means that it is a good suggestion. If they will say "no fruckin way, dude!" - that means it's not.
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In my opinion, like i stated above, is that some ideas are not "likeable". Not all changes are for most people to like them. Like nerfing things... A suggestion that is happy for everybody is not a good suggestion i mean, it falls more into category of Bug if it is 100% (100% good suggestion) obvious.
You mean like ideas should have percentage points instead of points?. This is way better solution than NastyKhans' - because it mirrors the whole community with 1 vote per account.
I said that once and i will do again.
This is brilliant idea. Every suggestions should have its'.. let's call it "karma" level. Each forum member could vote:
1. I like it. (+2)
2. Good idea, but require corrections (+1)
3. I don't like it. (-2)
The threads with highest karma will appear on the top of the suggestions list, so every could read it. Threads with score -20 would be automatically moved to closed suggs.
Simple. Clear. Obvious.
Yes but you wouldnt be able to recognize "need correction" ideas with little dont like it votes from idea that is liked and hated very much. There should be at least 2 parameters in this way to work.
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I have seen something similar in Battlefield Heroes forums. People write something like "/sign", then the author adds his name on a list he made earlier. Later he counts have many people have "/signed" and put it in the title of the thread.
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Well, i mean in short, that this is democracy, and we all know that total democracy is a failure. If it was natural in our world we would all be out voted by flies and had to eat shit.
If anything like this, then allow only Devs to vote anonym votes. If the suggestion helps them or not helps them. In meaning, if it gives them another view on subjective/alternative solution/constructive whining/idea that gives them new point of view maybe. If you dont agree, then explain what means "Good", and what means "Bad", if you suceed in explaining that, then i will agree to it.