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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Izual on November 18, 2010, 04:55:39 pm
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We all know the problem right now about the Town Control, that is bugged and makes the cities belonging forever to their own teams.
There is another problem, which is the bank interest - a system that multiplicates your caps every now and then, the bigger caps you have, the bigger you'll get - pretty cool... For biggest gangs.
So right now, factions that own a town (Rogues, VSB, Chosen Soldiers) are earning hundreds of thousands of caps without taking any risk (though I'm not blaming them, none of them provoked the bug) and they can put this money in banks, etc; which means the game economy is... Torn apart?
It's not a secret that all of these big gangs are having limitless amount of combat armors and caps. Damn bank interests and town control rewards!
Anyway, it just smashes the whole game. Player-driven traders? What is the interest, when the biggest gangs can buy everything you sell at any price? Fights? No interest at all when your opponent as unlimited stuff.
Right now small gangs in PvP are taking a risk, others don't. Enough said. That's why I suggest (I SUGGEST lads, I'm not announcing anything, though it won't prevent flame :) ) an item wipe (That wipes everything except characters, or something like that. It already happened in the past.).
you guys still dont get something.. :D
we made few milions of caps afer 2weeks of playing after wipe and to be honest we really dont need more. becouse we mulitply this money many of times
"Ok so infinite amount of caps for Rogues"
we already reached that level some times ago..
And not only them.
For the sake of this session that will soon be as interesting as a god mode for part of the server - item wipe and removal of bank interests rates!
:D
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Not only gangs play this game, remember? Make all loners/people playing with 2 or 3 friends/smaller gangs suffer cos of gangs? Ridiculous. Bugs happens, you should know that very well...
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When the economy is torn apart, everyone is affected, even loners. I'm not playing in a big gang, so I don't care myself about the huge battles. But the fact that there are a lot of caps everywhere makes fights unfair, crafting useless and trades worthless. This affects everyone.
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Lets do it like in Czechoslovakia in early 60ties..
Make money reform. Replace current Caps money with Fallout 2 money (i dont know how they were named).
Only money at bank accounts will be replaced. Only ammount to 10k will be replaced in ratio 1:1, from 10k to 50k in ratio 1:10, from 50k to 100k 1:25. More money will not be replaced.
Dont forget big gangs will be prepared for this and they will create many bank accounts.
And Also, disable money income from TC (drugs and resources are enough). Better cities (BH, Red, Den) should generate resources (hq ores, uranium ores, meat jerky, chem comp,..) that could be crafted to more valuable items. ยจ
If your money reform should be succesfull, you have to:
1) hold it in secret. Even day before tell to everyone that there will not be any reform
2) temporary disable possibilitiy of creating of new accounts in bank
3) temporary disable refilling of new items in NPC traders merchants
I know that this is problem to implement, but if you implement this changes into next era, that you could make this by one simple update, it will make longer life of each era gameplay
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If the item wipe should be done, the idea of money reform is awsome.
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I am not in a big gang. I don't rob/pk people. So why should MY hard earned caps get wiped, ESPECIALLY, because of a broken system the DEVS came up with (item control through ridiculous cooldowns yet no such thing as PK/Robber cooldown? So when people screw up/servers screw up/etc, its a beta so suck it up but this one bug happens, big gangs whine, so all of a sudden we are getting a wipe?
Right now certain gang/s have EVEN MORE shit than they already have. Does it make it toughrer for other big gangs to compete? Well suck it up, wasteland is harsh. Loners/small groups have to compete with big gangs, its the same thing.
How about if gangs feel like they got too much shit they stop fucking people over/raiding hmm? Maybe they should give shit away?
People are tired of fighting because shit is boring. How many CLJ, MAMK2, BA fights have we seen? Where the hell is the good shit like the Power Armor, Gauss Rifles, Pulse Rifles, etc? Sitting in bases because people won't risk it because of almighty FLD (if there is any). Want to give people a way to show off their hard earned badass loot, disable FLD in GUARDED cities so they can brag all they want. Want to spice up TC? Maybe implement objective based TC like holding certain parts of a town for certain periods of time? I really can't think of a way to encourage people to use rare/T4 weapons besides getting rid of FLD (or even better just allow them in Hinkley).
The devs made this game a one trick pony when they made things like FLD/PVP a top priority. I mean if you pk/ambush people all day you are going to get a lot more shit then folks who rely on crafting.
Big gangs will ALWAYS have more shit than small gangs/loners, its just the nature of being able to kill/rob more people. Gangs who prefer to shoot first and not ask questions will get even more shit cause they are more likely to win fights (and more loot). It is stupid to punish little folks because of either a bug (again server problem, its a free beta, suck it up), even worse for the wrong reasons.
If a wipe is going to happen, do it because your going to implement cool new changes (for example making crafting different from pvp/SPECIAL, or lets say lowering or removing cooldowns), instead of OMGZ gangs have too much stuff (tagain they always have too much stuff).
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So just repair bug and make wipe ;p
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Horrible suggestion. I do prefer REAL wipe.
I'm in very small gang. And we managed to earn some cash and put it in the bank.
I don't want to lose everything because Izual got bored in the middle of this session.
It will make all the game from wipe pointless.
What you call "a reform" is thievery in governmental scale.
If tired of your bank account, just pick a random account number and transfer to it. Make some noob happy.
Or pick noob in ncr and give him 1000000 caps in cash
If somebody got bored - just start new char, NOT USING RESOURSES (money, base, loot) from previous chars
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Horrible suggestion. I do prefer REAL wipe.
I'm in very small gang. And we managed to earn some cash and put it in the bank.
I don't want to lose everything because Izual got bored in the middle of this session.
It will make all the game from wipe pointless.
What you call "a reform" is thievery in governmental scale.
If tired of your bank account, just pick a random account number and transfer to it. Make some noob happy.
Or pick noob in ncr and give him 1000000 caps in cash
If somebody got bored - just start new char, NOT USING RESOURSES (money, base, loot) from previous chars
More like "We are hypocrites. When average Joes get fucked over its DA WASTELANDZ IS DA HARSHZ STOP WHINING. But when big gangs get fucked over because of a bug etc, its PLEASE FIX SUPER IMPORTANT".
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Eex: I mean too full wipe ;)
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jan0s1k, yes we need full wipe as soon as something worth fresh start implemented.
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Ah, hatred :D You're 5 minutes late!
But when big gangs get fucked over because of a bug etc, its PLEASE FIX SUPER IMPORTANT".
Big gangs are not fucked over because of this bug. It's the opposite :>
Though discussion is interesting, this is why I made a thread and not just PMed devs with "I think there should be an item wipe...".
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Beware people, he who's got all the power here
not just PMed devs with "I think there should be an item wipe..."
But, he's very kind letting us to bla bla for sometime. Very fat, Izual. I like it. ;)
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You misunderstand my sentence :) My PMs to devs are as worth as yours, but if I felt I had the perfect suggestion, why would I bother to post it here and not PMing it directly to the ones that make the game?
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Seems it not THE PERFECT SUGGESTION.
Let people vote for that - results could be interesting
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Every sessions north pvp team have more caps than they can spend, so what news?
Full wipe or no wipe...
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Full wipe or no wipe...
Imo Item Wipe was less "violent" than full wipe, but I'm not opposed to a full wipe neither.
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Ah, hatred :D You're 5 minutes late!
Big gangs are not fucked over because of this bug. It's the opposite :>
Not hatred, alittle annoyed yes.
Small folks like me and countless others have had to listen to the DA WASTELAND IS DA HARSH since playing. If we bring something up its usually the gms or devs or big gangs who cry quit whining. All of a sudden someting happens that pretty much affects big gangs only (TC gangs), we get whining (oh but its not whining when big gangs are affected).
Small players could give a crap about TC. If they do then its at night when the big gangs are asleep anyways. In the morning the town goes baco to Rogues, CS, TTTLA, VSB. Big gangs have ALWAYS had more money and stuff compared to little players. It wasn't considered economy breaking when all the big gangs had caps and could afford cars and multiple bases whie small folks eked out a living.
This is cleatly about and affecting the big gangs that DIDN'T get to benefit over the bug while some gans did AKA Rogues it seems fromt he gang issues thread. No surprise that after the big flame war between the big gangs we get this suggestion a few days llater.
Its hyporcritical man
PS: LIke I said full wipes for a good reason AKA implementing new fetures or making the game better all around for EVERYONE, not because some big gangs are all butt hurt over a glitch.
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Keldorn: Ok, it's better when you use arguments than insults. So yeah, I understand what you say, it is mostly very true. Except that I'm not responsible for players telling you "WASTEMAND IS HARSH" (saying this is stupid).
I posted this suggestiong because I thought it was deeply unfair to have on one hand, small gangs that have to craft all day long etc; and on the other hand big gangs with unlimited caps. If you think it is not unfair, or it is no different than previous sessions, well, then I'm glad you posted your point of view, because this is interesting and it seems fair. However, we shouldn't forget that we are beta-testing this game and that it is more important to have a balanced economy than keeping our items for months. My two cents. ;)
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Look, big gangs have always had more caps/stuff/bases/cars whatever than regular folks. They could wipe their butts with 5k toilet paper (gauss pistol ammo anybody??). Big gangs pretty much have unlimited caps already.
This has never been considered game/economy breaking. It was considered a fact of life.
The problem arrises when one big gang ends up with more endless + caps compared to other bi gangs who only have endless.
The annoyance comes from the fact that when average folks got screwed over (someone I know lost 20k because he got rolled back into a fight), devs can't do anyting about it (I disagree yet understand).
Now a big gang profited from a TC glitch and decided to use the bank to compound their money. Thats not the average joes fault. That doesn't mean the bank system is a bad idea. It just means one big gang capitalized on a glitch, it happens
But now your suggesting that everyone get punished over the actions of a small few. Tha bank system allows little folks like me to earn some nice caps to (without having to ruthlessly murder everyone I run into to do so).
Its alarming that this kind of bias could be suggested by a GM hence the much stronger response then something small. and not by a gm. This really doesn't help when we got folks accusing gms of favoritism/abuse in a different thread whether its true or not.
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During TC bug, we calculated, that BH income was 250 000 caps per day. But it is nothing. If you have average daily interest in bank 2 percent (1-3), we calculated, that because of long, uninterrupted TC holding of cities, both CS and Rogues daily income only from interrest is cca 1 000 000 caps.
We dont know it exactly of course, but because this is BETATEST, and even you, CS and Rogues are bored, you could break your information embargo and tell us truth about this fact.
Because of caps inflation due to interrest nad TC income, because of Random encounters stuff inflation, because you can steal dozens of thousands of ammo from Brotherhood, Enclave without be killed, there are a plenty of stuff.
But also there are groups of players, that are not exploiting (or call it as you wish), and they dont deserve it.
So if you will exchange old money to new money in ratio 1:1 until value of 10 k of old caps, 1:10, 1:25, 1:infinity (if you set adequates level), you can prolonger life of this era.
You will create new accounts, and mone there money, so you will have more than 15 k new caps from 100 k old ones... But why you need more than 500 k caps.. only to buy infinite number of supermutants, there is not any other reason. We, VSB, have all bases (like every major gang), but we use only 2 of them regulary.. one as basic one and one for rookies.
I am against new wipe, if new changes are not ready to implement (new crafting system, domination mode,...), because absence of major content changes after last wipe was a major disapoitment in whole 2238.
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where is the massive amounts of caps you are talking about? or am i playing in the wrong server or the wrong time zone? if i can find 5k cash in a merchant n 24 real time hours, i am lucky. if i can find more than 5k, i begin to think that something is going wrong or it might be a trap.
people kill other players, loot their hardly earned stuff and sell them in the name of wtf trading companies. they earn massive amounts but this doesnt affect the economy, ha? stealing from lowbies )who wont even find a chance to resist or shoot back) and selling their stuff?.. at least TC requires some preparations and riskier than minigun bursting a 70 hp bluesuit in an underground mine.
i am a loner, i will never participate in big wars, i will never have silk toilet papers in my base, i don't have much to lose. but i've earned whatever i've earned by crafting and visiting the merchants all over the wasteland in the hopes of finding a few caps.
when someone complains about the PK, people say "weastland is hursh, find a bigger gun", so all i can say about this suggestion is "bugs happen, find a bigger gang"
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where is the massive amounts of caps you are talking about? or am i playing in the wrong server or the wrong time zone? if i can find 5k cash in a merchant n 24 real time hours, i am lucky. if i can find more than 5k, i begin to think that something is going wrong or it might be a trap.
people kill other players, loot their hardly earned stuff and sell them in the name of wtf trading companies. they earn massive amounts but this doesnt affect the economy, ha? stealing from lowbies )who wont even find a chance to resist or shoot back) and selling their stuff?.. at least TC requires some preparations and riskier than minigun bursting a 70 hp bluesuit in an underground mine.
i am a loner, i will never participate in big wars, i will never have silk toilet papers in my base, i don't have much to lose. but i've earned whatever i've earned by crafting and visiting the merchants all over the wasteland in the hopes of finding a few caps.
when someone complains about the PK, people say "weastland is hursh, find a bigger gun", so all i can say about this suggestion is "bugs happen, find a bigger gang"
We are talking about not thousands, but milions/bilions or how msh said that "infinite"
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where is the massive amounts of caps you are talking about? or am i playing in the wrong server or the wrong time zone? if i can find 5k cash in a merchant n 24 real time hours, i am lucky. if i can find more than 5k, i begin to think that something is going wrong or it might be a trap.
You earn some money during TC. It starts at some value and that values is different for each city (450-1000 caps per hour). If you hold city longer, the number of caps is raising, so you can have even 250 000 caps from "magic chest" per real day from one city. Imagine situation, that you hold all cities for one week. (And both CS and Rogues did that, even for longer time). I will take average value 100 000 caps per day from each city, so it is 600 k per real day per one city. Multiply it by 7 days and you have 3 500 000 caps per real week. I remember, that first month were TC monopol of only 2 teams. Rogues and CS.
Than multiply it by daily average interrest of 2 percent in FLC and add 2 months of not so uninterrupted, but also longer holding.
And we are on that numbers.
I think, that there should not exist something like current hour income from TC, but only percentage from trades made in city NPC traders, with maximum limitaion of income, because someone will, like every time, find some way how to exploit it. So you will get i.e. some drugs, ores, depends on location (like now) and amount of money will be depended of security you can provide in city (no security, no playres trading, no income, no supermutants hordes :P ).
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I think, that there should not exist something like current hour income from TC, but only percentage from trades made in city NPC traders, with maximum limitaion of income, because someone will, like every time, find some way how to exploit it. So you will get i.e. some drugs, ores, depends on location (like now) and amount of money will be depended of security you can provide in city (no security, no playres trading, no income, no supermutants hordes ).
This may be a great innovation. If you have no trade in the city you control the city become poor and you get less money.
No need to be too gentle too, you may kill everyone is not in your gang, if you are a great gang you may use the city for commerce with your player and get money (protectionism and isolationism)but if you are a small gang or you are lazy and no trade happens in the city , the market go down :'(
Interesting
(by the way , I m nearly a loner, I don t cheat, and I m generous - giving away for nothing 30 - 50 k caps of goods for week, and now I have 1 200 000 caps between my 2 bank account ...
Is the trading that don t work well - maybe with no caps at all (why people found a cap worthy? there is anarchy in wasteland no central autority) with only barter and with merchant that buy ever at max half of the value that they use for selling , and yes interest in bank are a error , my humble opinion)
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Item/money wipe is way too unfair for smaller gangs, my gang will be so f*ing pissed off if this happens that half of them would probably quit, cause they've spent numerous hours crafting, trading, farming and now just cause some gangs have enormous sums of money such a solution is ridiculous. Having millions of caps doesn't make them way stronger than the rest, the worst thing they can do is create hundreds of mutant leaders and just throw them all around the wastes. Do you think that this gangs would walk in leather jackets and Tommy guns instead of BA and P-90 if such bugs never existed? Izual, think about that, yeah, well, caps make their life easier, but it's their own problem, they miss a huge part of game-play, such as trading, farming, blah-blah. I'm perfectly happy with the way things are now and yes I'm in a small gang and money is a real problem for us, if we loose all our savings we'll be f*ed up, we were saving caps for some costly things, trading, farming hard and what should we get? F*cked up hopes and efforts?
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However, we shouldn't forget that we are beta-testing this game and that it is more important to have a balanced economy than keeping our items for months.
Well, right. We are betatesting so we can as well not give a shit about some temporary bug giving uber caps ammount to some people and not force whole server to focus on craft and gathering testing on several weeks more (that's what would happen when people lose all their items, uber grind to get items to play effectively again).
You will probably post that I say something like that, because I profit from TC bug at the moment. Yes I profit, but it is no difference because we had a large ammount of caps already before the bug. Wipe wouldn't change much as we'll manage to get large ammount of caps after few weeks anyway, but for most players, it would rather slow beta-testing process or even cause some ragequits.
Better organised (not bigger what people usually say) gangs will be always ahead of average players and there is nothing bad about it, it's just reality.
1mln every day interest is out of comment, we would have to keep 50mln money in bank, are you insane Lordus or what? Unlimited ammount of caps is the ammount kept in bank that provides us with more caps than we spend on average day, for someone it can be 100k, for another 10M wouldn't be enough. We already achieved that level some time ago.
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Keldorn: Ok, it's better when you use arguments than insults. So yeah, I understand what you say, it is mostly very true. Except that I'm not responsible for players telling you "WASTEMAND IS HARSH" (saying this is stupid).
I posted this suggestiong because I thought it was deeply unfair to have on one hand, small gangs that have to craft all day long etc; and on the other hand big gangs with unlimited caps.
BTW I noticed I didn't provide a good answer so I will now.
If you really believe that its unfair for big gangs to get more stuff than little gangs then reduce or eliminate cooldown timers. Stop focusing so much on da wastelad is harsh with high risk travel quests. Make quests take place within their respected cities or borders. Make more quests that provide scaled exp without forcing people to kill a bajillion ants. Let small gangs do through crafting what big gangs do through killing and robbing.
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we did mathematic calculation... the seriousness of the calculation is supported by fact, i did not calclulate there anything :) but as i told you, we have counted all gathered money you could get from TC multiplied by some awerage constant and then we used daily bank interrest, so this number is not sci-fi
second fact is that we dont know your organisation, maybe you are zilions of small gangs united under one base/name, so your temates are stealing from magic box your money
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I think it's a terrible suggestion. casual players will suffer most.
full wipe or no wipe +1
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Make poll about how many wants full wipe/only item wipe and then make that what players chooce.
I support more full wipe than item wipe, because big gangs get anyway stuff fast and smaller ones get them very slowly.
I don't care about bank interest, because i never open bank account ingame :D
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I support no wipe in any way shape or form.
It's just not worth it since these people in big gangs will be able to get infinite caps anyways... with or without this glitch in tc system so please, no, just no...
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Devs aren't gonna have any wipe until the NPC faction features are done anyway... please don't start this "Omg wipe!!!" madness this early.
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We are talking about not thousands, but milions/bilions or how msh said that "infinite"
i know what we are talking about, what i mean is where do these guys spend their caps? it is almost impossible to find caps in mechants. so, where does this money go? do they swim in it like uncle scrooge or what?
isn't finding money in the wasteland a good thing for the economy? big gangs may find caps anyway (like looting other players and trading them) but bank interests are the only way for small gangs and loners to find some time to actually enjoy the game. or you will have to spend hours travelling between cities to find some cash. you can trade weapons and ammo and stuff with your craftings but it is not easy to make 500k for a bunker or even 120k for an outpost by shovelling brahmin shit or lifting caravans.
caps are already rare in merchants, so if there are players who can trade with caps instead of radios, what is wrong with it? if someone is rich enough to pay 30k for a gatling laser to a merchant it is a great opportunity for the average players.
if you want to fix this, fix the TC. as someone has suggested reduce the income from TC, if the controlling gang makes the town too unsafe for other players to trade. otherwise keep off my caps!
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Even if items wipe will happen, people would get all the items and money after a month anyway. Then what? Item wipe again? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The point is to make economy work for itself instead of making random item wipes because TTTLA is butthurt over Rogues having more monies.
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izual by your statement i presume your not a member of the 3 gangs you named earlier, if you are then i bow to you ( seriusly)
point 1- ur sugestion would solve nothing.. all it would do would be to change the gang from the top of the food chain.. the same would happen again and again and again and then this server would die
point 2- economy system is completly screwd in this game, althouth interests open the gap even wider, interests are not the only guilty factor
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Izual u dont understand neither the game nor economy, u are only right about interest rate, it supposed to be deleted or nerfed, anyway if someone save enough it will let him get as much caps as he wants
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In answer to topic starter.
Item wipe in sake of economy and common good you say?
Let me get this straight. We dont have economy. Why? Economy is science, which purpose is to to determenise which, where and how much of specific limited recource will go to a specific place, so that there will be somekind of "balance". And if you havent noticed, we dont have limited resources. And I hope you are able to see that saying word economic here is inappropriate.
Common good you say? How do you want to achive it if you sacrifice others? How is it possible to create something by destrouing/deleting? You want to take all itemms from server, just because people were lucky to capture city right before bug happened? They used means given them by game, even which were not in first plan of devs.
You say they are ready to spend limitless amounts of equipment? Then why wount you use it for your advantage?
I wount even give any vote here because answer for me is obvious. Even that I dont appreciate the "community" which we have here, I wount take their means to fight vs themselfs.
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Item , cash in bank wipe ? I dont use that bug so why i should lose my items?
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Does not matter, you can just delete all caps above some limit but factions will find a way to get them anyway. You can delete stuff and small gangs and loners will suffer moste but big gangs will accumulate the items anyway. Basically, my point is that it's just a temporary fix that will help for a month maybe, after that it will be all the same but lots of people will be upset and angry
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The item/caps wipe is a bad idea. It would change nothing even with the TC bug fixed.
The idea to change TC income to reflect the amount of trade is the best idea I've seen for a while. I'd also make a day pass system for TC towns. A player has to buy one or be shot by militia/mercs, the gang is to name the prize.
... and back on topic... Why not limit the caps one has in the bank? Say 25k per level? If a gang is big, 20 players with 5 max level alts each, then the gang can have +/- 50mln but they won't earn more once all accounts reach the limit.
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... and back on topic... Why not limit the caps one has in the bank? Say 25k per level? If a gang is big, 20 players with 5 max level alts each, then the gang can have +/- 50mln but they won't earn more once all accounts reach the limit.
Taxi alts, crafting alts, security alts, trading alts, and now we would like to introduce to you .... money bag alts! Ta-da!
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People have tons of alts anyway, one can use the doc/taxi/thief/bg/sg/wtf alt as a money-box alt.
A gang that makes 500k a day needs a new 20lv alt a day just to keep those caps in a bank.
Sure, making 20 lv in a day ain't hard when you have some budies shoting centaurs for you, but it ain't free and automatic.
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Well, players would find a way, to save as much money as they can. Buing lots of mercs, spending cash from banks on cars etc. I don't see any solution on this
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full wipe or no wipe!
also make caps a rare item to overthrow current state of game. economical apocalypse in the post-apocalyptic wasteland :O
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This economics of yours seems a bit communistic to me. Big company of skilled people is rich. Small companies of less informed and less skilled people are poor. I dont think anything would change this ever.
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Sure, making 20 lv in a day ain't hard when you have some budies shoting centaurs for you, but it ain't free and automatic.
You can make 21lvl in a day without any help
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Just vote no because i think it shows us what will happen in Fonline if there are no server Wipe every 6 mounth. It's a kind of back to the future, with server wipe we can't see how the game will develop with a very powerful gang. So everybody is criying for RP and it's maybe the only way to develop that.
It's a beta and this situation is interesting for futur game mechanics, becaue after 6 mounth of gathering and developing team are wiped or waste stuff waiting wipe, we never had this kind of situation seeing 2 city getting role played by big gangs ! Let's see what will happen, maybe it will be interesting.
Furthermore bank interest are good and don't have to be removed but they need to be fixed by any way (number of players visit/amout traded in city/room rents). This same points can maybe be use for fix the TC awards, trader caps respawn... but i think to get result the whole wastland need an economy because atm you can create an illimited numbers of caps.
To finsh Item wipe will only affect small gang...
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I fail to see the need for an item wipe too.
It won't change anything.
Big gangs will be up and running quickly again while smaller gangs and loners will need a considerably longer amount of time.
If the gangs which don't profit from the bugs feel they're left out, perhaps the gang(s) they are allied with which do profit can help them out.
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Wipe? Sure but only full wipe with some tasty updates :-*
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Unless devs change economy code, it doesn't make sense to make the wipe IMHO. It would only help a little bit small/medium gangs who want to participate in TC. Soon the big gangs will swim in caps again (and even loners have to many caps in my opinion, it's not a problem to make over 100k in a week by a loner without any help of other players or alts).
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I still dont see a reasonable way to fix the economy, a wipe wont help without it. And, no full wipe please, if you want a full wipe then just delete all your chars, and there, you have it, but stay away from my chars, i dont have that problem :P
There are some ideas about economy, but there are a lot of things that have to be worked up from the core. Money is still only to buy things, life doesint cost caps in Fonline. Caps in Fonline doesint have its full circle still. Caps just drop from trees, without any reason behind.
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Keldorn: Ok, it's better when you use arguments than insults. So yeah, I understand what you say, it is mostly very true. Except that I'm not responsible for players telling you "WASTEMAND IS HARSH" (saying this is stupid).
I posted this suggestiong because I thought it was deeply unfair to have on one hand, small gangs that have to craft all day long etc; and on the other hand big gangs with unlimited caps. If you think it is not unfair, or it is no different than previous sessions, well, then I'm glad you posted your point of view, because this is interesting and it seems fair. However, we shouldn't forget that we are beta-testing this game and that it is more important to have a balanced economy than keeping our items for months. My two cents. ;)
I completely agree with this. If there is one thing this game has taught me its to not get too attached to items to items anyway and the fact that this is a beta test is very important to remember, of course we are all having fun doing it but every now and then it requires a little sacrifice. However considering this is a test I think its a perfect time to test a money reform as previously suggested. I know this wont completely solve the item problem but the item problem will likely not get solved in many ways until the 'supply and demand' issue also gets solved, but I suppose that's another thread.
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@Jjohnny Rust
The thing is Johnny this is a thinly veiled attempt to prety much screw over all the little folks for the benefit of a few (namely big gangs).
There has never been and it doesn't look like it will happen soon, a REAL economy. This game is about PVP for da lulz everyone knows. So to me that argument goes down the toilet. Like why is there a cooldown for crafting yet no cooldown for pk/robbing people? Because the devs do not want us to hoard loot by making it ourselves. They want us to go out robbing and killing other folks just like CS, Rogues, or the anti-pk folks like TTTLA and VSB to get loot. I mean 3 hour cooldown for BA (this is after 2 hour cooldown for mining the mats)? But you can get BA by just ambushing someone/cripple them/shoot for the eyes.
Izuals excuse of "too many caps", doesn't hold water when historically, the big gangs have ALWAYS had dang near endless caps.
Lastly its no coincidence that this "suggestion" pops up after a nasty flame war in the gang discussions about how Rogues/CS happened to own a few towns when a bug happend that didn't allow other big gangs to re-take them.
So ok, when us little folks lose things due to a server rollback its tough luck. If we die and lose all our stuff because of lag or a glitch in the system, its tough luck. But all of a sudden big gangs get shafted by a bug and its OMGZ we need to get this situation fixed right away.
If we go as you say Johnny, then the big gangs shouldn't be the one getting attached to their money and items. If Izual wants to bring back a balance between the big gangs ONLY, then wipe the big gangs of their money and items. But you see that won't happen unless everyone gets wped.
Banks are not the problem. Bank interest isn't the problem. Screwing over all the little joes just for the sake of (equalizsing the situation between the big gangs) is the problem. Eliminating the few peaceful ways to accumulate wealth in the game IS a problem. Eliminating bank interest and the ability for small folks to earn lots of caps too because some big gangs or gms don't like it IS a problem.
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@Keldorn
OK, I can accept all of that. I assumed this was a blanket leveler. obviously the economy needs work but I suppose to what end that work is put towards. Personally I don't see how the economy can make any sense until the supply/demand of the NPC vendors is established anyway, after all they are the base of the games economy (they certainly are for us little guys). Once each town has limited and logical economy however TC spoils can also make more sense assuming they are based on the controlled towns economy instead of that town simply generating fabricated money like a federal reserve. last time I checked there are no operational nukacola factories producing more caps.
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Not going to happen.
Thread closed.
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Quick Fix - freeze interest until next wipe.
Remove caps from TC loot.
Weaken militia and shorten TC holding time to half an hour (if it hasn't already) so TC gangs will have to accellerate PvP to retake towns. This will grind up their reserves of equipment fighting each other.
Towns still have to have some kind of decent valuable to make TC worthwhile (and keep them killing each other.)
Have townspeople grab loot from dead players and it goes into the TC box?
Perhaps some kind of gang rep/gang member rep system to keep score. (Beyond the pipboy TC display.)
They can fight over that.
The wipe/money reform is great for those who have little or nothing- a "clean slate".
For the big gangs it would be annoying, but their organization and manpower will help them bounce back rapidly.
Small gangs are the ones actually hurt in this scenerio. Trying so hard to build up to a position where they can compete only to have it yanked from them.
I got to a point where I was sort of "custodian of bases" (playing mostly alone, keeping the bases and tents from dissappearing), mining, crafting, leveling crafter alts (slowly- takes me a week to get one to lv10), searching for caps.
Throw in a bombing once or twice a day for spice.
Just getting things ready for "when people come back".
Plus all the arranging and decorating.
This wasn't simple stockpiling- it was careful, long term logistics planning.
A very slow, tedius RP project.
So item wipe and caps wipe?
99% of time and effort erased.