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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Attero on January 29, 2010, 10:59:55 am
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encoutner window shouldnt show players,
that would cut most noob hunters
ty
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If you go around your house and there is a dog, a cat and a woman. Do you only see the dog and the cat?
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do we play a game or RL ?
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If you go around a house in FOnline and there is a dog, a brahmin and a woman. Do you see just the dog and the brahmin?
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If you go around a house in FOnline and there is a dog, a brahmin and a woman. Do you see just the dog and the brahmin?
telekinesis))
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if you see a woman then the woman can see you too ... same goes for creatures...
ok lets say it differently - outdoorsman is a knowlage of animals plants and terrain.
it lets you move faster - ok . its lets you know there is enemy ahead due to tracks and smelsl whatever - ok. It lets you know there are caravans or patrols ahead - they make noise shit whatever - ok
but we can assume players learned (with some level of outdoorsman maybe themselves or just free) to conceal their tracks , not make noise etc etc ...
now getting back to the pure fact that this is game - there is no reason to support newbie hunting.
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But nobody but regular-PK really hunt newbies coz' there's no point in such behaviour ;)
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Well, if you run around in highly populated areas, this is what can happen. If you move outside of "popular routes", you don't meet any players at all.
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define populated area ?
it looks like populated area - anywehere where either exp or drop is good ... cutting that out you are left with scorpions molerats and other low exp worhtless mobs or places where you are gonna get shoot dead on sight by npcs ... zzz
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Not really. The worldmap is big and I've placed special encounters all around and not just in the areas where players think.
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special encoutners ...thing is thats not the thing ><
lowbies cant realy do them, and even if they could its mostlikely they will never find them as can realy new player tell whats populated area and where its not ? only by the fact that when he tries to grind he gets killed over and over - not realy fun perspective .
.letting aside search for "Secial encoutners" with chances of being "zerged" by some riders or whatever with guns blazing while searching for them..
but whatever thats not the point - thing is that there is no reason to make it easy to hunt lowbies / solo players in the wastes.
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Populated areas are those where players often travel through. Same as if you look at a map of plane routes (http://www.vietnamairlines.cz/img/intmap.jpg), you can easily tell which areas are "populated" by planes and which are not. If you travel from town A to town B in a straight line, then obviously you are more likely to encounter somebody.
if you see a woman then the woman can see you too ... same goes for creatures...
[...]
No. It depends on who sees whom first. For example I can notice somebody far from a hill. And then I have the initiative, I choose what to do: confront them or avoid them.
now getting back to the pure fact that this is game - there is no reason to support newbie hunting.
Nobody is "supporting" newbie hunting. Rules are the same for everybody. In Fallout 2 you had NPC highwaymen and other bandits encounters, but in an MMO you also have human highwaymen. What's wrong with that? If you know, you're not strong enough to survive a conflict, then try to avoid it. If there's a high chance to meet somebody in some area, then of course, bandits will use this area as their hunting grounds.
And the fact that this is an MMO game means that you don't have to travel alone. I'm sure that there are players who would agree to play as your bodyguards just for the heck of it.
thing is that there is no reason to make it easy to hunt lowbies / solo players in the wastes.
That's so silly. Survival is all the wasteland is about. People group themselves to survive, to gain advantage over other groups. If you expect that the weak should be "magically" excluded from this very natural law then you don't understand this game.
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Archvile lol in F2 i belive i only died to enclave when was trying to sneak to their base...
And there is base differance , you fight the encounter to get the exp / loot and you get jumped by people that finish you in one round.
No routes between cities are actually safe , we speak of areas where grinding is very lucrative (groups fight vs groups and you can just sit back and finish them one by one when they fight each other ..) in those spots you will find groups led by high charisma + outdoors players that look for "player encoutners"
heh none will protect you for free - this or other way they will want something in return and actually when being jumped by 2-4 players you more likely need a whole group to help you lol ...
And as for supporing lowbie hunting - for some time now mmos got noob protection as high priority , it feels like at beggining of mmos where just newly made cahracter could be chopped for the little cash he menaged to farm or simply for the fun of it - they died quite fast even through being free...
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It still doesn't change anything. If you know that some areas are dangerous then either avoid them or form a strong enough group to be capable of defending itself.
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its fail thinking
1) there is real lack of good exp spots - the ratio is around 1:10 (good spot : others ) and with the exp drop with higher levels i can only guess how the ratio will grow above 15 lv ..
2) lucartive spots arnt that lucrative when you need to share with others ..
3) the chat options are rather limited here so making group is another hassle
and finally this is blind wheel - when one needs to level while being constantly killed and forced to the boring craft over and over by the time he is "strong" he hates everyone so much that he goes PKing lowbies himself ...
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No routes between cities are actually safe , we speak of areas where grinding is very lucrative (groups fight vs groups and you can just sit back and finish them one by one when they fight each other ..) in those spots you will find groups led by high charisma + outdoors players that look for "player encoutners"
Why should some lowbie be protected when grinding some very lucrative areas? You just have to choose some other place, if you only go around NCR, you can tell for sure you will meet some player in no time. Just don't do that. There is plenty of areas, where you would never expect a lucrative spawns, but well, they're there and almost nobody grinding them, because it is no predictable. You just have to explore and not do everything in predictable way as everyone else. PKs bank on players being predictable and going to predictable areas. There is no reason one should have reward for being predictable and average player.
heh none will protect you for free - this or other way they will want something in return and actually when being jumped by 2-4 players you more likely need a whole group to help you lol ...
Then get into some faction, find some friends. Guess what - they will protect you for free.
And as for supporing lowbie hunting - for some time now mmos got noob protection as high priority , it feels like at beggining of mmos where just newly made cahracter could be chopped for the little cash he menaged to farm or simply for the fun of it - they died quite fast even through being free...
It depends on the type of mmo. I personally have played mmos which had no noob protection at all. You know, if the game system gonna protect you for some time, you will just find later, how hard it is to make living. I think it is better to get all the ass-kicks soon, you will learn and eventually become experienced player with some playing skills. Protecting newbies/ lowbies by system is just the bear service. Just get a tent at first few levels, then you can farm stuff and never leave with anything you can't lack. There is no point in collecting stuff, if you haven't tent. Actually I did few characters lvl 3/4 with bare hands and by the time I had those 10 skins+some cash in bank. Never cried about losing low end equipment, even if it was my last one.
It's just pointless.. as long as PKs are a normal part of game, they have the same right to grind noobs as noobs have right to grind lucrative spawns, waiting till the two groups of NPCs kill themselves and then only loot stuff without any effort. Thanks god there is any risk besides predictable AI.
its fail thinking
1) there is real lack of good exp spots - the ratio is around 1:10 (good spot : others ) and with the exp drop with higher levels i can only guess how the ratio will grow above 15 lv ..
2) lucartive spots arnt that lucrative when you need to share with others ..
3) the chat options are rather limited here so making group is another hassle
and finally this is blind wheel - when one needs to level while being constantly killed and forced to the boring craft over and over by the time he is "strong" he hates everyone so much that he goes PKing lowbies himself ...
1) highly depends on area. You know, on lvl 15 you should already know places where are +- 1k xp critters. Also by lvl 15 you should learn more ways to gain xp.
2) it's easy - go alone and find something less dangerous (and less lucrative) or go in group and share.. if you are lowbie, there is no reason why you should grind the most lucrative critters alone. omg you really shouldn't be semi-good on lvl 5 grinding centaurs and enclave with bare hands - what would you do on lvl 21? Multi-kill on sight with eyes?
the last sentence is only by personal (moral :p) preferences.. you can as well hate pkers and help lowbies
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its fail thinking
1) there is real lack of good exp spots - the ratio is around 1:10 (good spot : others ) and with the exp drop with higher levels i can only guess how the ratio will grow above 15 lv ..
2) lucartive spots arnt that lucrative when you need to share with others ..
3) the chat options are rather limited here so making group is another hassle
1) comfy, aren't we?
2) comfy, aren't we?
3) comfy, aren't we?
and finally this is blind wheel - when one needs to level while being constantly killed and forced to the boring craft over and over by the time he is "strong" he hates everyone so much that he goes PKing lowbies himself ...
Bullshit.
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no i dont say lowbie needs to be protected while grinding lucrative spots but supporting hunters by giving them players name in encoutner window is just bad . You could still hunt the lucrative spots and when seeing encounter they could still jump in and see if there is some player fighting but hten they would also risk that rather then finding solo player they can find a group of players ...
but lucrative spots - like i said the ratio is sick - i will mention numbersi f you desire ..in lucrative spot i can get over 5k exp from encounter in others having 500 is being "lucky"
1:10 is insane ratio - most games introduce something called risk : reward but the ratio is 1:2 ; 1:3 (comparing risky spot to safe ) at most not 1:10 and more ..
no faction is not free ; and finding high lv firends is rather hard ó
hard to belive there is good mmo out there with no noob protection ... the last one i would say was AoC - it was quite harsh game at start but they added the protection eventually ... well the game died before they did but its how it ends ...
3/4 lv ? wtf is that thats not what im speaking about 3/4 you can hit with your hands tied ... problems start at 8lv where you need to carry some valuable gear to be able to kill anything woth decent exp and now you get lowbie hutners on your ass...
@ Archvile - lacking argument arnt we?
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no i dont say lowbie needs to be protected while grinding lucrative spots but supporting hunters by giving them players name in encoutner window is just bad . You could still hunt the lucrative spots and when seeing encounter they could still jump in and see if there is some player fighting but hten they would also risk that rather then finding solo player they can find a group of players ...
Every coin has two sides. It will be then pointless for lowbie to invest in outdoors (which can be quite high on lvl 8 ) to prevent jumping into group of PKers. You know - PKs will just get used to it and deploy in the lucrative area and instead of traveling, they will be just waiting for noobs in the position - you will have no chance to prevent the encounter with them and ooops - there is another suggestion how being no able to prevent this is supporting lowbie hunters. You just have to adapt. You can minimize the risk if the first thing you do in the encounter with NPCs is going near the grid so you can leave in one turn (I tried personally and it really saves life).
1:10 is insane ratio - most games introduce something called risk : reward but the ratio is 1:2 ; 1:3 (comparing risky spot to safe ) at most not 1:10 and more ..
Your 1:10 ratio is simply not based on any facts, maybe just on your gameplay experience, which is spoiled if you are failing almost all the time (I guess this is the reason you wrote this suggestion). I have chars with level about 8-12 and I have very different numbers. In fact I'm able to bring many guns back to my place and just fail in about 1/5 of attempts.
no faction is not free ; and finding high lv firends is rather hard รณ
I did find faction on lvl +- 9 just for having a conversation with a single person. It cost me nothing and I even received some stuff. Since then it was only better. You just need some luck and have to try. I even didn't need forum or IRC to find a faction, so it is in fact quite easy (as subjective feeling as yours).
hard to belive there is good mmo out there with no noob protection ... the last one i would say was AoC - it was quite harsh game at start but they added the protection eventually ... well the game died before they did but its how it ends ...
Well, there are. :)
3/4 lv ? wtf is that thats not what im speaking about 3/4 you can hit with your hands tied ... problems start at 8lv where you need to carry some valuable gear to be able to kill anything woth decent exp and now you get lowbie hutners on your ass...
If it was so easy for you, being on lvl 8 you just should be well prepared. If you aren't someone may as well say, that the game is actually very easy for starters and therefor they learn nothing in the process of xping. :)
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hard to belive there is good mmo out there with no noob protection ... the last one i would say was AoC - it was quite harsh game at start but they added the protection eventually ... well the game died before they did but its how it ends ...
Yeh, yeh. Since august 2009 people tell us that the game will be dead in few weeks. Still, amount of playing users didn't lowered.
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Every coin has two sides. It will be then pointless for lowbie to invest in outdoors (which can be quite high on lvl 8 ) to prevent jumping into group of PKers. You know - PKs will just get used to it and deploy in the lucrative area and instead of traveling, they will be just waiting for noobs in the position - you will have no chance to prevent the encounter with them and ooops - there is another suggestion how being no able to prevent this is supporting lowbie hunters. You just have to adapt. You can minimize the risk if the first thing you do in the encounter with NPCs is going near the grid so you can leave in one turn (I tried personally and it really saves life).
the problem is not with running into pk'ers but being runned into . They can be only in one spot so chances drop terribly compared when they are swooping the desert with taxi ...
Your 1:10 ratio is simply not based on any facts, maybe just on your gameplay experience, which is spoiled if you are failing almost all the time (I guess this is the reason you wrote this suggestion). I have chars with level about 8-12 and I have very different numbers. In fact I'm able to bring many guns back to my place and just fail in about 1/5 of attempts
So you probably never runned into lucrative spot :] and so also you probably didnt got found by swoopers either ... 2 points of vierw hmm ?
but the numbers i mentioned are real , centaur / floater is worth 650 exp , humanoid with SG 80-120 , mutated sizzles less then 30-60...
I did find faction on lvl +- 9 just for having a conversation with a single person. It cost me nothing and I even received some stuff. Since then it was only better. You just need some luck and have to try. I even didn't need forum or IRC to find a faction, so it is in fact quite easy (as subjective feeling as yours).
Joining faction doesnt cost you directly (unless they would ask cash lol). But it does in longer run - basicly said : you can either join faction that will want you or you can join faction that you will want - differance is power.
Well, there are. Smiley
Name one ? make sure its well known...
If it was so easy for you, being on lvl 8 you just should be well prepared. If you aren't someone may as well say, that the game is actually very easy for starters and therefor they learn nothing in the process of xping.
maybe , but the thing is that at 1-2 lv (dont remember) stupid scorpion is worth 120 exp at lv 6 and above its maybe worth 20 maybe ..
there is lack in progression with creeps - or i beein at least unluckly not to find critters with ~200 for lv 8 ;]
@ Lexx - it depands on point of view ... i played quite a few mmos and left them and i considered them dead when they still had 100k subs ... 300 people its not on scale ^^ i just mentionedd how bad things happened to games that were harsh to new players . Fonline is mostly different case - we played Fallouts old days and now we enjoy fact that we can play again in same universe... however i woudlnt see why the game shouldt have 10k players when it will be ready..
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all i can say here is
THE WASTELAND IS HURSH
(those caps are so much looking cool here, like a voice of the wasteland itself)
come on man itsa postnuclear world, wild and dangerous. if u want to be safe then go play smthng else)
no offence man but u will be killed by PKs again and again
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all i can say here is
THE WASTELAND IS HURSH
(those caps are so much looking cool here, like a voice of the wasteland itself)
come on man itsa postnuclear world, wild and dangerous. if u want to be safe then go play smthng else)
no offence man but u will be killed by PKs again and again
if it would be as harsh as you say none would clone you for free ;]
PK ... heh in mmo its called PvP but i start to wonder if in fonline it can be called that .... havnt heard PK naming since mud days ...eitherway i love pvp not sure how i feel about PK
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Yeh, yeh. Since august 2009 people tell us that the game will be dead in few weeks. Still, amount of playing users didn't lowered.
But has it grown? That isn't a rhetorical question, I'd like to know if the MODDB publicity has actually helped expand the playerbase.
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some offtop about the playerbase:
well i thinks it is growing. i know many people who jioned recently and i think that devs should be quite happy with so many testers.
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the problem is not with running into pk'ers but being runned into . They can be only in one spot so chances drop terribly compared when they are swooping the desert with taxi ...
Oh man, it quite doesn't matter if it is you swooping the desert and running into pk group or if it is pk group swooping desert running into you. :)
So you probably never runned into lucrative spot :] and so also you probably didnt got found by swoopers either ... 2 points of vierw hmm ?
Yes, two points of view. Anyway I'm able to get on lvl +- 10 items like LSWs, FN FALs, Laser Rifles and so on on solo, so I don't think I can't find a lucrative spot (still without not being pked every time). Being not found-killed by swoopers often is about finding lucrative and not well known places, about player's skills.
but the numbers i mentioned are real , centaur / floater is worth 650 exp , humanoid with SG 80-120 , mutated sizzles less then 30-60...
Oh, if you want you can very easily kill just centaurs/ floaters. There are areas, where there is almost nothing else. As well if fed up with centaurs, you can go to areas where are almost only humanoids with loot. It's just about what you want and if able to achieve it.
Joining faction doesnt cost you directly (unless they would ask cash lol). But it does in longer run - basicly said : you can either join faction that will want you or you can join faction that you will want - differance is power.
I think joining faction is well worth the cost, if any. Also what you write is only a theory, practically you can join a faction that will want you and which you want to join at the same time - it's not either.. or (I guess it would be nonsense to join faction you don't want to and especially it would be nonsense if some faction which doesn't want you as a member will let you join :D).
Name one ? make sure its well known...
Almost all shards of Ultima Online in my country (+- 300 players in rush hours for the biggest one.. which is quite good for local character and such archaic game).
maybe , but the thing is that at 1-2 lv (dont remember) stupid scorpion is worth 120 exp at lv 6 and above its maybe worth 20 maybe ..
This is on another discussion. I would personally like if the lower xp for crit. issue develops faster in time to the previous values (like if you didn't kill a scorp for 24 real hours it should raise again a little).
there is lack in progression with creeps - or i beein at least unluckly not to find critters with ~200 for lv 8 ;]
Well, you are. 150-250 xp may be some: ghouls, mobsters, immature deathclaws, "strong" slavers, bootleggers, marauders, NCR Rangers/ Caravan guards maybe also, Fire Geckos.. not sure about all of it but almost all of these can be met on regular basis.. you may as well search the wiki with "xp=whatever" to find values by yourself.
however i woudlnt see why the game shouldt have 10k players when it will be ready..
Because the competition is so high and free games can never be compared to payed monthly. However I think that FOnline does great job and actually is better than many games which are paid for. I think that free games would even have troubles supporting problem free entertainment for thousands of people (for sure expect some text games etc.), in the mean of hardware and in the mean of GM team.
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Oh man, it quite doesn't matter if it is you swooping the desert and running into pk group or if it is pk group swooping desert running into you. Smiley
it does , i never runned into them its alwayes other way around...
Yes, two points of view. Anyway I'm able to get on lvl +- 10 items like LSWs, FN FALs, Laser Rifles and so on on solo, so I don't think I can't find a lucrative spot (still without not being pked every time). Being not found-killed by swoopers often is about finding lucrative and not well known places, about player's skills.
Well, you are. 150-250 xp may be some: ghouls, mobsters, immature deathclaws, "strong" slavers, bootleggers, marauders, NCR Rangers/ Caravan guards maybe also, Fire Geckos.. not sure about all of it but almost all of these can be met on regular basis.. you may as well search the wiki with "xp=whatever" to find values by yourself.
i expecially said critters - humanoids are good if they hit soemthign else i wouldnt survive group shooting FN fals / LSW for more then one round .. and if you run into critters "unocupied" you can alwayes run away , for humanoids they will shoot your ass at least huritng you severaly ( had once first shot crit - knockout /gg)
small deathclaws would be ok but they exist in caves only i think (only once saw one outside) and TB in cave = 5 min rounds ...
Rangers = huh ? i wanan be firendly with them .....
Almost all shards of Ultima Online in my country (+- 300 players in rush hours for the biggest one.. which is quite good for local character and such archaic game).
gah Ultima .. something else please ;p ultima is beyond my understanding how one can play it (same as tibia and other shit with that level of gfx)
I think joining faction is well worth the cost, if any. Also what you write is only a theory, practically you can join a faction that will want you and which you want to join at the same time - it's not either.. or (I guess it would be nonsense to join faction you don't want to and especially it would be nonsense if some faction which doesn't want you as a member will let you join Cheesy).
You didnt understand me - not at all ... and i will not elaborate, anyone with extensive guild expirience should know what i mean..
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it does , i never runned into them its alwayes other way around...
Well, this has no objective value. I personally did run into them and also our group had many times strangers running into us. And you will run into them more often, if the Outdoorsman gets your "fix".
i expecially said critters - humanoids are good if they hit soemthign else i wouldnt survive group shooting FN fals / LSW for more then one round .. and if you run into critters "unocupied" you can alwayes run away , for humanoids they will shoot your ass at least huritng you severally ( had once first shot crit - knockout /gg)
But some from the list have such short range or uses only mellee. I don't see a point here. Someone is able to kill them on lvl 8 and someone isn't, but that's a problem of your build probably (aren't you mellee/ unarmed?). Also with LSWs I often see those dumb NPCs shooting their comrades instead of me, which actually really helps.
small deahclaws wouuld be ok but htey exist in caves onlyi think (only once saw one outside) and TB in cave = 5 min rounds ...
I think in caves you're likely to meet a mature deathclaw. I know this about TB, you have either wait for fix, use RT, get used to it or don't go inside. :)
gah Ultima .. something else please ;p ultima is beyond my understanding how one can play it (same as tibia and other shit with that level of gfx)
You talk like FOnline (don't forget Ultima may be heavily modded too) is way more better, pal. ::) You know, some people just have other requirements for entertainment. You said one, here it is. :) And it has comparable number of players to other free games.
You didnt understand me - not at all ... and i will not elaborate, anyone with extensive guild expirience should know what i mean..
Man, anyone with extensive guild experience is probably going to have a faction till lvl 8 as I did (both pre-wipe and after-wipe for me). And I'm totally satisfied and believe my faction too (actually they often make me lead a party - and not because of CH stat). It's not me saying how everything is screwed, how I'm unsatisfied and failing and looking for self-justification and why everything is impossible, so I guess any problem is just very subjective on this matter.
I mean you won't probably make it to the top PvP faction on lvl 8 being taken for town raids or town control events, but everything comes with time. I also had no problem changing faction to fit me better, when I felt like it (and being still welcome in my previous faction bases) and also was able to pay 1/3 of caps needed for the biggest base by the time.
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I'd like to know if the MODDB publicity has actually helped expand the playerbase.
Not much, as far as I can see. It's true that we now have 350 players again at high times. But before it was 200 to 250... so it's actually not that much. Or let's say... ingame you don't really feel the new people.
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Well, this has no objective value. I personally did run into them and also our group had many times strangers running into us. And you will run into them more often, if the Outdoorsman gets your "fix".
my 10 outdoor doesnt feel endangered by such change ><
But some from the list have such short range or uses only mellee. I don't see a point here. Someone is able to kill them on lvl 8 and someone isn't, but that's a problem of your build probably (aren't you mellee/ unarmed?). Also with LSWs I often see those dumb NPCs shooting their comrades instead of me, which actually really helps.
Yea the bugged ones or when the fight vs others - but part that like i said humanoids are pain coz a hunting rifle goul shots your as for 20-30 per one at huuge range ... well sometimes even desert eagle ones push over 20 per hit .. and at 8 you have around 70 - not much beatign you can stand ... not melee then i dying wouldnt cost me too much ;p
You talk like FOnline (don't forget Ultima may be heavily modded too) is way more better, pal. Roll Eyes You know, some people just have other requirements for entertainment. You said one, here it is. Smiley And it has comparable number of players to other free games.
No its like saying that in hell it looks same as in heaven but its hotter >< Yes Fonline doesnt use candy gfx but on this part you are probably right if i wouldnt play Fallout those over 10y ago then i wouldnt be interested in fonline now. Basicly after plaing p2p mmo free ones doesnt cut it (fonline is special shush)... now i wonder if interplay will make Fmmo...
Man, anyone with extensive guild experience is probably going to have a faction till lvl 8 as I did (both pre-wipe and after-wipe for me). And I'm totally satisfied and believe my faction too (actually they often make me lead a party - and not because of CH stat). It's not me saying how everything is screwed, how I'm unsatisfied and failing and looking for self-justification and why everything is impossible, so I guess any problem is just very subjective on this matter.
I mean you won't probably make it to the top PvP faction on lvl 8 being taken for town raids or town control events, but everything comes with time. I also had no problem changing faction to fit me better, when I felt like it (and being still welcome in my previous faction bases) and also was able to pay 1/3 of caps needed for the biggest base by the time.
huh ? i just suggested removal of PC names form encounter window to reduce the amount of unwanted open pvp , and you claim how i'm failing looool - going same way of thinking i could say you try to justify farming lowbies as valid way of getting cash ... lol
As for factions - i dont like to owe anyone , i dont jump guilds sorry and hate people that do. ofc i could join some faction , was even offered , but i dont wanna , i wouldnt be able to stand lowbie hunting from high lv members and say its fine coz it doesnt happened to me.
Its about how matured player you are, either you like killing others for sake of it regardless if they are able to stand any chance or you want to win in fair fight where enemy is prepared and willing to fight
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huh ? i just suggested removal of PC names form encounter window to reduce the amount of unwanted open pvp , and you claim how i'm failing looool - going same way of thinking i could say you try to justify farming lowbies as valid way of getting cash ... lol
As for factions - i dont like to owe anyone , i dont jump guilds sorry and hate people that do. ofc i could join some faction , was even offered , but i dont wanna , i wouldnt be able to stand lowbie hunting from high lv members and say its fine coz it doesnt happened to me.
Its about how matured player you are, either you like killing others for sake of it regardless if they are able to stand any chance or you want to win in fair fight where enemy is prepared and willing to fight
You know, since there is pvp allowed, farming of anyone is simply a valid way of getting cash. It may not be fair or moral, but it is totally a valid way. We may not agree with it, but pvp is normal way of getting cash and things. Also pvp is player vs player, not "experienced player vs experienced player". It really doesn't matter if your oponent is lvl 1 or 21, anyway it is just a valid way of income.
Also not every faction hunts newbies, actually there is some that even help them (personally I did help someone few times, but it's only my personal choice, which is in the means of game principles same as killing them instead).
I just won't judge anyone because how he decided to play. This is not mature approach. It's just a game and you know, he may be killing lowbies but still be a perfect person in real life. My game style may be totally different and even one character of mine may behave in oposite way than other, still I don't think it does say anything about how mature anybody is.
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You know, since there is pvp allowed, farming of anyone is simply a valid way of getting cash. It may not be fair or moral, but it is totally a valid way. We may not agree with it, but pvp is normal way of getting cash and things. Also pvp is player vs player, not "experienced player vs experienced player". It really doesn't matter if your oponent is lvl 1 or 21, anyway it is just a valid way of income.
Also not every faction hunts newbies, actually there is some that even help them (personally I did help someone few times, but it's only my personal choice, which is in the means of game principles same as killing them instead).
I just won't judge anyone because how he decided to play. This is not mature approach. It's just a game and you know, he may be killing lowbies but still be a perfect person in real life. My game style may be totally different and even one character of mine may behave in oposite way than other, still I don't think it does say anything about how mature anybody is.
yet its within developer power to limit how the pvp should look like. I remember in some cases you simply werent able to attack someone if there was level differance more then of two levels...
one need to remember that what for someone is a hour of farming and crafting for other can be few mins of killing some npc ...
I used "matured player" on purpose dont mix RL in this , it has nothing to do with age or whatsever . I dont say that someone farming lowbies cant help them out - but evil cant be covered by good ones unless one would actually help the person he killed - its same way that donating to church doesnt clear the fact that you stole money ealier...
I judge people by their actions , you may not - your choice.
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yet its within developer power to limit how the pvp should look like. I remember in some cases you simply werent able to attack someone if there was level differance more then of two levels...
one need to remember that what for someone is a hour of farming and crafting for other can be few mins of killing some npc ...
But why should anybody limit pvp here? Just because killing lowbies is not moral and they have to work harder? Also if I have pure crafter (doctor let's say without gun skills) on lvl 21, I'm as weak or even more than small guns lowbie on lvl 5. Should I be protected then, because I'm defenceless? I was killed now and then on low levels, with few characters, didn't have faction base etc. by the time, I know what it is like. But I never felt like "the bad bad PKs ruined my life again, I'm so miserable".
I used "matured player" on purpose dont mix RL in this , it has nothing to do with age or whatsever . I dont say that someone farming lowbies cant help them out - but evil cant be covered by good ones unless one would actually help the person he killed - its same way that donating to church doesnt clear the fact that you stole money ealier...
I judge people by their actions , you may not - your choice.
What I'm trying to say is, that I may differ evil and good, but I'm saying, that evil has the same right to live like good here. :) This is no chivalry mod, thinking about if the killing of lowbies is right or bad is just irrelevant. I'm even sure, that PKers just gonna try to kill you regardless of your lvl. You are just sometimes on the wrong place in the wrong time, no need to take it personal or think about moral. Just try to learn asap. Perhaps these lowbies are gonna just find better places, where they are not hunted so much (and there are plenty of such places).
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But why should anybody limit pvp here? Just because killing lowbies is not moral and they have to work harder? Also if I have pure crafter (doctor let's say without gun skills) on lvl 21, I'm as weak or even more than small guns lowbie on lvl 5. Should I be protected then, because I'm defenceless? I was killed now and then on low levels, with few characters, didn't have faction base etc. by the time, I know what it is like. But I never felt like "the bad bad PKs ruined my life again, I'm so miserable"
yet again you put words into my mouth - i never said anything about hard protection , i just dont see a reason to support hunting. I suggested something that would help noobs / lowbies alot and would open the game for non so hardcore players.
And at 21 your doctor can have 180+hp depanding on how much endurance you have (140 is somewhat min) while 5 lv can have at most 60 hp ... no comparing ... + your doctor is doctor you dont play him to fight but to craft and maybe heal your blind gang friends - your example makes no sense.
What I'm trying to say is, that I may differ evil and good, but I'm saying, that evil has the same right to live like good here. Smiley This is no chivalry mod, thinking about if the killing of lowbies is right or bad is just irrelevant. I'm even sure, that PKers just gonna try to kill you regardless of your lvl. You are just sometimes on the wrong place in the wrong time, no need to take it personal or think about moral. Just try to learn asap. Perhaps these lowbies are gonna just find better places, where they are not hunted so much (and there are plenty of such places).
ofc you cant protect players from everything - even in the best mmos there are scammers , ninja looters , KS'ers etc . Game is a game but you cant escape from morality.
EDIT : i will give you exaple equivalent ot the "support hunting" i tal about . This game doesnt support killing in guarded cities like NCR , not only NPCs attack you but also you lose karma and items get looted. Now imagine that you wont lose karma and NPCs wont loot your corpse , then all you would need is someone to take your stuff after NPCs killed you , and you could go and kill players in NCR without any real penalty. That city would still be guarded and "safe" but i would say the city hunting is supported.
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yet again you put words into my mouth - i never said anything about hard protection , i just dont see a reason to support hunting. I suggested something that would help noobs / lowbies alot and would open the game for non so hardcore players.
I think it will only change the tactics of PKs, as I said before. They can as well use the new settings to their profit, camping a place waiting for lowbies (who won't have any chance to prevent, cause Outdoorsman would be "nerfed" - and it really doesn't matter that your char has only 10 Outdoors, there are some who invest points in it early and gain from it - especially around places like NCR you can prevent hopping into players even with quite low skill). This suggestion isn't supporting lowbies, it will have much broader impact.
Also the example is fully valid - your lvl 5 may not have 180+ hp, but it may have some BG skill f.e., which can help you to defense actively (shooting them a rocket may save you for a turn, as they are wasting their AP to stand up.. in which the Doctor 21 could be dead as well). If you meet a group of three f.e., they may kill you regardless of you having 60 or 180 hp.
ofc you cant protect players from everything - even in the best mmos there are scammers , ninja looters , KS'ers etc . Game is a game but you cant escape from morality.
There is no reason to escape from morality, cause it "is only about feelings" (simplification, no philosophy) - and definitely everybody has right for it. I just think, that morality shouldn't determine changes in this game at all. Let it just determine how you feel about certain actions, as it is the main purpose.
EDIT : i will give you exaple equivalent ot the "support hunting" i tal about . This game doesnt support killing in guarded cities like NCR , not only NPCs attack you but also you lose karma and items get looted. Now imagine that you wont lose karma and NPCs wont loot your corpse , then all you would need is someone to take your stuff after NPCs killed you , and you could go and kill players in NCR without any real penalty. That city would still be guarded and "safe" but i would say the city hunting is supported.
This only mean, that there are currently safe and not safe locations. In fact Outdoorsman functions are supporting both hunters and victims. You can really gain from it as a lowbie, many did. If you want just try it by yourself to see how this Outdoorsman feature is totally useful for both sides. Form a group, deploy on the place adjacent to NCR and just wait. My personal experience is, that in a few minutes you will have someone hop into you, either by failing Outdoors check or with intention to kick-ass your group and also you will certainly have people, who will avoid the encounter with Outdoors setting as it is now (I know - you won't see them avoiding, but there really would be plenty of them). Just make sure, that your suggestion really has two sides, without doubt.
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I think it will only change the tactics of PKs, as I said before. They can as well use the new settings to their profit, camping a place waiting for lowbies (who won't have any chance to prevent, cause Outdoorsman would be "nerfed" - and it really doesn't matter that your char has only 10 Outdoors, there are some who invest points in it early and gain from it - especially around places like NCR you can prevent hopping into players even with quite low skill). This suggestion isn't supporting lowbies, it will have much broader impact.
most lowbies dont take outdoorsman - tehy go for their crafting skills as tagged. Also this si quite simple ... there are 20 squares of hunting zone , they can only occupy one square and actually only 1/4th of that square will trigger the enocunter . so if you lets say pick one square and only travel within it to hunt for encoutner you have less then 5% to get one with a trap. However when they go for hunting they have 20squares to check - how long it takes to check all of them with 240 outdoor and pathfinding ? maybe even car... (no idea how cars work yet). I would say if you fight in TB and the fight takes 10mins they wil lfind you no matter what ...
There is no reason to escape from morality, cause it "is only about feelings" (simplification, no philosophy) - and definitely everybody has right for it. I just think, that morality shouldn't determine changes in this game at all. Let it just determine how you feel about certain actions, as it is the main purpose.
I think it is. Devs say whats wrong and whats right . if they decide they can make anyone suicide bombing never able to log on that toon again and even suspend the IP temporary. But atm its jsut beta none cares. Yet its jsut suggestion i made , maybe they will listen maybe not - up to them realy ;]
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most lowbies dont take outdoorsman - tehy go for their crafting skills as tagged
Either this is not truth (cannot be proven anyway) or it is a mistake of player. Anyway why should anybody investing into craft skills and grinding lucrative spots (=fighting) have any support in doing so? I did invest into outdoors very soon for a few characters, at least for those, who are going to travel/ explore. It simply pays off. Just invest into craft skills only and have no advantage in fighting/ avoiding fight or invest into fight/ outdoors skill and feel the difference (= many players detected around NCR giving you the opportunity to evade). Anyway Outdoorsman is actually very good skill for craft, even if you gonna make it "only" to 80.
I think it is. Devs say whats wrong and whats right . if they decide they can make anyone suicide bombing never able to log on that toon again and even suspend the IP temporary. But atm its jsut beta none cares. Yet its jsut suggestion i made , maybe they will listen maybe not - up to them realy ;]
They do, but I believe they are doing it more because of game balance and game system, not because of morality.
Definitely, it's up to them. :) Just don't expect, that this could fix it, even if accepted, cause if you wouldn't hop into pk group myself, some other lowbie would (analogy to what you said, if they gonna wait here 10+ minutes, they will have some frags sooner or later).