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FOnline Development => 3D Development => Topic started by: Lizard on January 22, 2012, 05:53:07 pm

Title: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lizard on January 22, 2012, 05:53:07 pm
You know, maybe i'm rushing things too much... But what do you think, how should a default wastelander skin look like in 3d era?

I know, the appearance will be probably customizable from the scratch, but how about that clothing you wear while wearing no armor, like casually shoveling shit or being freshly respawned?

Right now we have a term called "bluesuit" - will it change to something else? Will we have traditional bluesuits or some wastelandish rags, tribal gear, pre-war underwear or will we be able to choose between them? Will there be hordes of almost naked miners running around unguarded mines or will there be uniform type of "naked" clothings, like some dirty old jeans with white Tee?

That's some questions to the topics like taste, 'realism' and freedom of choice. What do you think? Let's discuss.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Haraldx on January 22, 2012, 06:36:30 pm
Bluesuit - No. Not everyone here comes from fancy vaults, shmaults.
Underwear - Umm... a little ridiculous, isn't it? Naked HtH trolls running around in swarms... Nope...
Tribal gear - should be an option (so we have the chance to roleplay a tribal and other non-sense).
Wastelandish rags - more like it. As far as I remember Lexx stated that bluesuits should be eliminated and should be replaced with something like this.

Character customization highly wanted.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Luther Blissett on January 22, 2012, 07:23:13 pm
It's good to think about this kind of thing - if there is an agreed decision, people can start working on those clothing textures now :)

Anyway, it's all stuff which can go on a base texture layer, so no models - so I suppose any clothes which can be painted onto the base model, according to the subsets. Personally I'd imagine as you said, tribal stuff and "wastelandish rags", possibly with the addition of "generic civilian clothes" in various colours. I'd imagine things in similar colours to the general npc clothing (i.e. green shirt and brown trousers, red shirt and blue trousers etc), except with a little more variety in colour and style. Remembering that they have to fit to the shape of the base human model, this probably means no jackets, but a range of shirts and trousers (or vests and shorts).

Also, I think everyone will always call them "bluesuits", even after they no longer actually are  ;)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: EnclaveSniper on January 23, 2012, 02:09:23 am
Have two/three options for each category, Vault attire, Wastelander, Tribal, Merc, etc.
All chosen on character creation.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lizard on January 23, 2012, 05:00:56 am
So far so good suggestions...

I was also thinking of spawning point depending on your choice of skin: if you select vault suit, you spawn near VC, some kind of miner attire: Redding, farmer from Modoc, Asian with Shi attire - San Francisco, etc. so one could ask what do one might do so far away from their spawning point - might be a RP aspect, i think.

Or this (http://www.hohmodrom.ru/project.php?prid=51593) one could be made for the folks spawned in the North.  ;)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Johnnybravo on January 23, 2012, 04:29:57 pm
Since the game is a little too hard for newcomers, selecting faction at creation (with it usual bonus and malus) sounds like a good idea (with completely neutral survivor/wastelander option as well).
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Luther Blissett on January 23, 2012, 05:01:53 pm
Starting point colours would seem to make some sense. Mentioning factions - is it likely that gangs will want their own colour schemes to some degree? Obviously the number of combinations is limited, but we do have the layers to set a separate top half/bottom half of clothing if needed - so the same number of textures can be used, but combined in different ways. If so, I'd imagine the clothing layer being able to be changed (like in a barbershop), but also from Faction terminals.

Quote from: Lizard on January 23, 2012, 05:00:56 am
Or this (http://www.hohmodrom.ru/project.php?prid=51593) one could be made for the folks spawned in the North.  ;)

That's what happens if you pick Strength 10 :D

Seriously though, perhaps the clothing choice would be generated based upon SPECIAL and tagged skills, rather than chosen?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: EnclaveSniper on January 24, 2012, 07:12:50 am
I like that idea, let's do some tests to flesh it out though, what would you give a person who tags Energy weapons, doctor, and science?
Or, someone who tags, Big guns, unarmed, and melee?

Or should we create clothes based on only SPECIAL, and if that's the case, what would you use for each?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Jotisz on January 24, 2012, 10:38:00 am
Personally I would make some old worn clothes as deafault like some dirty shirt and jeans. Similar clothes that deafault npcs have like bootleggers and homesteaders just with more variety.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: pistacja on January 24, 2012, 11:36:47 am
Nude is always in fashion.
NPC at the respawn point can give some cloths for free (ranging from rags to bluesiut near vc, a 'I luv NCR' T-shirt near shady sands, or some tribal outfit out in the wild).
Going to a city nude will drop your rep... well maybe not in Reno, going nude to Reno could get you a job.

By 'nude' I mean in underware (until someone makes an optional nude patch).

Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Haraldx on January 24, 2012, 08:45:20 pm
More about this "SPECIAL-as-character-look-basing-thing":
A succesful STR and END check causes character to have the Strong body type. If this check fails utterly, you get the weak bodytype.
STR/END check formula (rounding down):
(STR+END):2 = (8+10):2= 9 (Strong bodytype)
(4+6):2= 5 (Regular bodytype)
(3+4):2= 3 (Weak bodytype)

STR/END check formula based bodytypes:
more than 7 = strong character
From 5 to 7 = regular hero character
Less than 5 = weak character

Having high intelligence can show you are a former vault citizen, giving you a vault suit. Having high charisma can give you nice clothes, while having low charisma will end up having dirty rags (I hope clothing will be buyable anyway). Setting your character age 45 or over will make your character have -1 point towards the STR/END check. Having low perception may give you pre-war reading glasses (if enough INT). With having a tag in FA, doc or science decreases the perception check threshold (you can get glasses even with higher PE).


That's just my five cents.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: LagMaster on January 24, 2012, 08:47:30 pm
Quote from: pistacja on January 24, 2012, 11:36:47 am
Nude is always in fashion.
NPC at the respawn point can give some cloths for free (ranging from rags to bluesiut near vc, a 'I luv NCR' T-shirt near shady sands, or some tribal outfit out in the wild).
Going to a city nude will drop your rep... well maybe not in Reno, going nude to Reno could get you a job.

By 'nude' I mean in underware (until someone makes an optional nude patch).


problem is that at least 50% of the FO comunity is made of 11-16 years old
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Surf on January 24, 2012, 08:50:29 pm
Why should a character who came from a vault be super intelligent? There were lots of stupid people in there, remember they are just "normal citizens" too who hide in a bomb shelter...


IMO - you shouldn't overcomplicate it. Make a standard "wasteland rags" model and give the players the ability to dye/colour their standard attire. If you feel fancy, go out and look for some new clothes/armors in quests and such. Making everything available from the get go is bad, making that stuff available through actual ingame content is better.

And yes, I would have said "make underwear default attire", but Lagmaster nailed it why this won't be a smart idea.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: pistacja on January 24, 2012, 10:12:53 pm
Fallout 1:
ESRB: M (Mature)
USK: 16 (cut)
ELSPA: 15+
OFLC (NZ): R16
OFLC (Au): M
PEGI: 16+

Fallout 2:
ELSPA: 15+
ESRB: M
OFLC: M
PEGI: 16+

So it's ok to show people torn apart by a minigun burst, blown to pieces by a rocket, burned alive and having chunks of body ripped out. There are drugs, slavery, racism, nationalism, foul language ... and yet you fear that people in underwear is something not suitable for the young players of Fonline? Sick, sad world.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Surf on January 24, 2012, 11:41:00 pm
No, this is not what I meant. We have people with questionable mindsets in this game who will run around in underwear to troll people yelling shit all the time and do nothing but mischief. Do you really want to see this? Ofcourse it doesn't really matter, but it only adds ill to the already bad state of some playing sessions. Most of these characters are likewise controlled by rather young, teenage players (ofcourse there are exceptions). This is what I meant.

It was NOT meant as for "we must protect young players because it's so cruel!" ;)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: pistacja on January 25, 2012, 11:12:05 am
Surf - 'I find your lack of faith disturbing'.

If nude trolls is what you fear then there's a simple solution -no shirt, no boots, no service,  naked characters should always be unprotected, unable to trade or even talk to npc.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Surf on January 25, 2012, 11:15:16 am
Trolls won't care, they're not there to trade or to be protected by guards etc.
Personally, I don't really like to see a town full of idiots running around in their underwear and spamming bullshit (and trust me, this WILL happen). The game and its players are already ridicolous enough...
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Crazy on January 25, 2012, 11:18:53 am
I agree with Surf. Idiots coming back ten times in bluesuit just to insult you before getting killed and during replication is already common, no need to have this with nude chars. Shitty, ugly and stinky rags should be the default (like what is wearing the looser/junky NPC for example ;p).
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: pistacja on January 25, 2012, 12:03:02 pm
Ok, I give up.

If you fear the trolls so much, then the trollerorists have won. 

I for one don't care what some punk is doing at the NCR grid, what he's yelling or how he looks like...if GMs care...well, don't you have some sort of ban-hammer? 
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lizard on January 27, 2012, 08:18:49 pm
I think it's a matter of taste, Pistacia. But there is perhaps a more elegant solution?

Underpants.
How about black boxers for male characters? I think boxers would be a better choice than that whitecord grandpa undies (that aren't very fitting with those tattoo skins)

About female characters, i dunno. Maybe we'll have thousands of guys ogidling their character in wasteland lingerie, but for that, we have decent tribal rags, like those in Tactics. Or do you have any other ideas?

Anyway, i think it should be very unfitting to have no any skin protection, like getting sunburned, dehydrated...restricted? Charisma malus or telling the naked freak he should GTFO or get some clothes before he gets shot.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Reiniat on February 16, 2012, 02:28:36 am
Quote from: pistacja on January 24, 2012, 10:12:53 pm
So it's ok to show people torn apart by a minigun burst, blown to pieces by a rocket, burned alive and having chunks of body ripped out. There are drugs, slavery, racism, nationalism, foul language ... and yet you fear that people in underwear is something not suitable for the young players of Fonline? Sick, sad world.
Well i think thats how actually works the world, i mean my mom never cared of watching me blowing people in funny gore festivals since 1997 to ultrarealistic murdering in 2012, but she broke my GTA San Andreas copy after watching some prostitutes with dildos (my mistake). Also i remember my dad complaining in the movie teather because we couldnt watch Saving Private Ryan in family because i didnt had 18 years.

On topic I prefer some rough tribal brahmin clothes, rags, pre war dresses and other 50's stuff (no jeans, no t-shirts).
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lexx on February 16, 2012, 03:27:14 pm
It probably will be some rags. Though I see no reason to think about it yet, as 3d models aren't ready to use yet and it probably still will be the case for a while.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Gob on March 05, 2012, 04:33:44 pm
There should be like clothes shop that allow you change between skins from rags to tribal or buy a vault suit for some money. I think it could be much like the barber but no haircut. It could give more life to the game.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Alfa-A on March 16, 2012, 04:21:20 pm
When be era 3d ?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Haraldx on March 16, 2012, 05:52:02 pm
When you stop asking for it.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lizard on March 17, 2012, 08:39:06 am
So i was thinking: will there be NSFW skins? Is that a issue for developers, in game, which has extreme violence and (albeit non-graphical) sexual references?

Something T on ESRB rating?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Haraldx on March 17, 2012, 01:26:20 pm
Quote from: Lizard on March 17, 2012, 08:39:06 am
So i was thinking: will there be NSFW skins? Is that a issue for developers, in game, which has extreme violence and (albeit non-graphical) sexual references?

Something T on ESRB rating?
Highly doubt there would be a change. The original Fallout 2 sprites had pretty much the same amount of violence and gore, I am pretty sure there is nothing that could change it. And what exactly do you mean by NSFW skins? Full nude skins? The question would be - do we need it? Which I also highly doubt.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Greencell on March 18, 2012, 02:40:25 pm
Nude skins?
Sprites are very small and probably pixelated. So i think no one will be
able to see any "details" on that :-\
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lexx on March 19, 2012, 05:51:16 pm
Pretty sure it will be some old rags. But doesn't matter much, as in any case we want to make it possible for players to change that.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Gob on March 20, 2012, 05:14:59 pm
Quote from: Greencell on March 18, 2012, 02:40:25 pm
Nude skins?
Sprites are very small and probably pixelated. So i think no one will be
able to see any "details" on that :-\

You can always reskin the 3D modell after that. I think I have a tut on yt about that.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 23, 2012, 12:56:40 pm
Why not just make a few default models for shirts,pants and shoes then giving players the option to change the colors during character creation or in clothing shops
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: NastyKhan on April 23, 2012, 08:00:31 pm
Yeah. Fighting is fighting. But during free time players (visiting cities, doing quests, role playing, recording lulz-movies) should have an option to customize their appearance, by picking one of clothes set and headgears.

Oh yeah - and don't forget about hairstyles ;)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Mike Crosser on April 24, 2012, 04:01:53 pm
Sounds great.
It would be cool if they added sunglasses too 8)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: NastyKhan on April 24, 2012, 09:37:32 pm
However you have right too, Mike. The question is: How the PC should looks like, while no armor equipped.

I think the default model/skin should be topless (for both male and female characters) PLUS if no armor is equipped - some clothes are shown. Why?
1. Clothes will stop trolls from running totally naked.
2. Nude model is probably easier to use armor models on (if overlapped).
3. By overlapping topless models and some "miserly" armors (unzipped leather jacket, Khan fighter armors, tribal clothes etc.) - player would have the option to make his char look more sexy or badass.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Johnnybravo on April 25, 2012, 02:50:34 pm
Easily - you add clothes on, but still have base naked model for usage when armor is equipped.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Karpov on April 26, 2012, 06:49:50 pm
There's a naked skin, the base skin, with underwear. Then there is a layer for clothing that is connected to the armors, so that when you equip the combat armor, your pants turn brownish and your shirt dark grey. On top of that, two more layers for pants and shirts (I need a third one for shoes) those two cancel the previous one when active. This way you can combine pants and shirt colours and type your own way, and still wear the armor on top. This is how I made it. It's not implemented, because it would require some programming.

Clothing types are these. Tanktop, T-shirt, long sleeve, with short pants, long or medium. Boots or shoes. With different colors for each. Just do the math.

I said before, we need to use textures for default clothing, otherwise the number of polygons to render would be very high. Well forget that. I was not thinking about the DisableSubset function, that prevents a specified subset from being rendered. So I guess it would be ok too.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: NastyKhan on April 26, 2012, 08:47:08 pm
Sounds good. In fact original F1 an F2 NPCs used to wear tight clothes as well. Just look at the Ian's pants. These are more leggings than jeans. ;)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Eternauta on April 26, 2012, 09:23:28 pm
Quote from: NastyKhan on April 26, 2012, 08:47:08 pm
In fact original F1 an F2 NPCs used to wear tight clothes as well. Just look at the Ian's pants. These are more leggings than jeans. ;)

This is most probably because of artists' lazyness in order to have real jeans, they would have to waste effort and time on those sprites instead of just copypasting the vault suit leggings and painting them with denim. That's why Ian wears 80's jeans and not 50's jeans, imo.

But it is still true that their clothes were tight and that's how it looks in the originals :P
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Roachor on April 26, 2012, 10:50:10 pm
Default should be either loincloth or tattered pre war clothes imo. Maybe have a selection that is purely cosmetic on char creation for rp/not looking like clones purposes.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: LagMaster on May 03, 2012, 01:12:03 pm
i still whant to keep my sugestion
at caracter creation you can chose default skin from more options(vault suit, tribal suit, old jacket, tanktop with roped purple pants, civilian atire, militar atire) and you can change that from some certain shops in game(somewhat like the barber shop, but only for default skin)
and naked shoud not be an option, who the hell will let themselves burned from the wasteland sun?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: NastyKhan on May 03, 2012, 04:43:05 pm
It's California, Laggy. California  8);)




[Information for ultra sensitive people, retarded nerds, orthodox CA patriots and super-mutant lieutenants: Yes. That's a joke.]
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Mike Crosser on May 03, 2012, 07:08:08 pm
LagMaster's idea sound good
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Roachor on May 03, 2012, 08:43:15 pm
Quote from: LagMaster on May 03, 2012, 01:12:03 pm
i still whant to keep my sugestion
at caracter creation you can chose default skin from more options(vault suit, tribal suit, old jacket, tanktop with roped purple pants, civilian atire, militar atire) and you can change that from some certain shops in game(somewhat like the barber shop, but only for default skin)
and naked shoud not be an option, who the hell will let themselves burned from the wasteland sun?

What if I want to RP conan the barbarian?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Johnnybravo on May 03, 2012, 09:39:52 pm
Then you should do that in MMO created by infamous Norwegian developer/publisher.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: LagMaster on May 03, 2012, 09:51:42 pm
or take a tribal skin, it will be somewat naked
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Toady on May 07, 2012, 04:28:53 pm
Anyway, something like that would be nice:

Images:
Video:

Now, the truth:


But would be nice still ;)

Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: LagMaster on May 07, 2012, 05:14:06 pm
we can combine metal mask with a tribal oufit to get that
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Lizard on May 07, 2012, 07:03:53 pm
So how about selecting "classes" and appropriate starting points for each skin, like tribal=primitive tribe camp, peasant=a small village or a hotel room (which are you been just threwn out), raider=NCR prison, vaultsuit=VC outcast, asian character=San Francisco etc?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Jotisz on May 08, 2012, 10:17:32 am
Actually it would be quite interesting. But it would take out the randomness of starting.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Roachor on May 08, 2012, 09:21:51 pm
Quote from: Jotisz on May 08, 2012, 10:17:32 am
Actually it would be quite interesting. But it would take out the randomness of starting.

I didn't realize that was something anyone cared about, not like it matters 2 minutes into the game.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Xisingr Will on May 10, 2012, 03:29:59 am
I love customization and i hope that you will get to customize your character in 3d such as maybe kind of clothes and even color/maybe hats and jewelry/watches maybe also.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Jotisz on May 10, 2012, 12:13:28 pm
Quote from: Roachor on May 08, 2012, 09:21:51 pm
I didn't realize that was something anyone cared about, not like it matters 2 minutes into the game.
It may be used to predetermine if the player belongs to a faction or not. Could be like that vaultsuit means player is from vault city. A trapper outfit would make the player to be part of klamath... etc
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Senocular on May 30, 2012, 04:00:31 am
1. Either keep it as it is - a bluesuit.
2. Start completely naked to encourage players to get some clothes and thus adding some variety.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Jotisz on May 30, 2012, 12:12:13 pm
I think many would just stay naked...
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Horatio on May 30, 2012, 05:59:28 pm
I hope not dirty underwear or butt naked, Jotisz. Id have a custom texture at my client which i can modify. Now that would be customization.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Roachor on May 30, 2012, 06:27:15 pm
No more blue suits, it makes no sense since we aren't from a vault. We should get to pick from like 3-4 diff wastelander default clothes that are purely cosmetic.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Horatio on May 31, 2012, 12:59:24 pm
Sounds cool, 3-4 different wastelander textures that are selectable from the start.

And - all 4 are moddable from clientside. That will make the ultimate customization experience.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Mike Crosser on May 31, 2012, 01:14:52 pm
I'm not sure what you're saying?
You mean textures customized by players?
But wouldn't trolls then just draw huge penises on their clothes ?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Jotisz on May 31, 2012, 01:27:33 pm
Quote from: Mike Crosser on May 31, 2012, 01:14:52 pm
I'm not sure what you're saying?
You mean textures customized by players?
But wouldn't trolls then just draw huge penises on their clothes ?
Would be possible but only on client side so that customized outfit wouldn't show but only on the one pc where it is edited. Also I don't think that those who would want to troll with naked chars have the skills to make a texture like that.
I think 3-4 predetermined outfit and their variants should be enough. (I think there is a few already)
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Horatio on May 31, 2012, 05:00:31 pm
As Jotisz said.

Btw, did someone already tried to manipulate client data to customise player appearance?
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Roachor on May 31, 2012, 10:36:49 pm
Quote from: Horatio on May 31, 2012, 05:00:31 pm
As Jotisz said.

Btw, did someone already tried to manipulate client data to customise player appearance?

You can do anything client side, I've seen people mod fonline so that bluesuits have centaur graphics and are easier to click.
Title: Re: Default skin in 3d era?
Post by: Horatio on June 01, 2012, 10:31:44 am
Quote from: Roachor on May 31, 2012, 10:36:49 pm
You can do anything client side, I've seen people mod fonline so that bluesuits have centaur graphics and are easier to click.

You don't say, that's interesting. And the item graphics, they could be of any size, too?