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Other => Closed Beta => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Winter 2011/2012 => Topic started by: avv on December 23, 2011, 11:29:59 pm
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There is a way to get mercs with significantly more hp than others with certain char build. The key is to max Luck, Cha and END. This will allow you to have mutants with almost 500hp or knife ladies with 250hp. Average hp ammount for knife ladies is 130. Now the issue here is that build who has 10 luck, cha, END plus 300 speech is highly unplayable. It has very low ammount of action points and low strength so doing basically anything but leading those mercs and watching them kill stuff is very tiresome. Without mercs, it's crippled.
Now obviously this leads to situation where players make these minmaxed high merc hp builds just when they need to drop a merc bomb. Nobody in his right mind would consider playing such build in general. I suggest that stats should have no effect on merc hp.
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what? hell no...btw speach didnt do anything with number of mercs...
now u can have max 2muties/3bg/4ew/4sg/5mele so why to decrease mercs hp? and u cant jump over the map with mercs because they are unarmed in non protected towns/encounters...and you have to pay them salary so...leave mercs alone...i am serious.... :'( :'( :'(
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what? hell no...btw speach didnt do anything with number of mercs...
now u can have max 2muties/3bg/4ew/4sg/5mele so why to decrease mercs hp? and u cant jump over the map with mercs because they are unarmed in non protected towns/encounters...and you have to pay them salary so...leave mercs alone...i am serious.... :'( :'( :'(
I'm talking about builds to boost merc hp. Can't all the mercs just have the same hp no matter the build?
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no. because if u want to have boosted mercs your build is weak in combat, but if u want to fight with ur mercs leader you will have weak mercs...something for something...
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no. because if u want to have boosted mercs your build is weak in combat, but if u want to fight with ur mercs leader you will have weak mercs...something for something...
this is the way it should be avv
if you want high hp mercs you yourself suck in battle.
should not be you get high hp mercs and be able to be a pvp tank. if this happens every one would just be merc leaders and players would just spawn mercs all day.
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But the thing here is: either make that minmaxed build or don't buy mercs at all. It narrows down the things a single char can do and encourages more alts. Besides, only when you're very rich and succesful player you can get this alt because it's so hard to level and mercs are expensive.
A tank can never be a merc leader because he has cha1 and no speech. Well you can make a tough mercleader, but it can't fight so it's not a tank.
It's also very bad feature that a mercleader can't fight at all. Your mercs die, it takes long to get back in action because you need to buy new mercs or your char is useless.
So basically it's going to be just another purpose only alt.
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Alts are a part of the game. Surely you would've come to peace with this by now?
It's fine as is, because it fucks your char up beyond playability, without mercs.
but if you want working character, you must give something up, which is more power mercs.
besides, it is obvious the concept behind it.
Your strength, charisma, speech, inspires, and strengthens your followers, the better leader you are, the better your followers can be, through basic training, and pure leadership.
I just wish, that such effects would take place when you enslaved npcs, would make more sense, but of course, they're just slave, not too much boost.
Think of this characters, as stumpy, bald, diabetic, no-energy, blind, but willfull people, who with their example at surviving in waste, inspire others into their best, or something similar :D.
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Alts are a part of the game. Surely you would've come to peace with this by now?
It's fine as is, because it fucks your char up beyond playability, without mercs.
but if you want working character, you must give something up, which is more power mercs.
Can you tell me what exactly are you giving away for those strong mercs? Your crafting abilities? Relog to a crafter. Lockpicking? Relog to lockpicker? Fighting abilities? You have 3 450 hp muties, what else can you ask for? So all this talk about tradeoffs is right out of the picture because you can use alts. Merc leader is just another example of gimped alts, it's even more gimped than str1 sneaker.
Could you tell me how would it hurt the gameplay if all mercs came with same ammount of hp, only their ammount would be affected with stats?
Honestly in current session it works fine with slavers that with cha10 plus magnetic personality you can have 5 npc followers. You aren't the best of the best fighter, but an okay one.
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Can you tell me what exactly are you giving away for those strong mercs? Your crafting abilities? Relog to a crafter. Lockpicking? Relog to lockpicker? Fighting abilities? You have 3 450 hp muties, what else can you ask for? So all this talk about tradeoffs is right out of the picture because you can use alts. Merc leader is just another example of gimped alts, it's even more gimped than str1 sneaker.
muties are just action points eaters...nothing more snipers can kill them easly and stop crying about mercs. after wipe you have to pay them salary so they will be even more expensive. i had 1 merc tank leader but my mercs suck ass. i prefer use high hp mercs but if i die well my mercs are just walking meat for pvp.
and most imprtant think...you cant drop armed mercs over the map...
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SPECIAL affecting mercs' stats is good, so I will make 10 EN/CH/LK merc leader for suicidal plasma grenade merc squad killing innocents in NCR. Just imagine how many people they will kill before die having so much HP, so I don't need to lvl up them! Also if mercs will respawn after wipe, then I'll have immortal suicidal plasma grenade merc squad who will do it 24/7 each N minutes.
Personally I don't see any other reason why mercs' HP depend on character's SPECIAL. So I agree with avv, that's stupid. I don't know if mercs are respawning or not, if not, then the only thing character's SPECIAL/speech skill can affect is XP rate of mercs, so some characters can level them faster, some slower, if mercs are respawning, then there's no risk, so characters SPECIAL shouldn't affect anything at all, because there will be only one use for it - mercs on 1st level - it means mercs for one use - it means not good from adequate gameplay point of view.
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muties are just action points eaters...nothing more snipers can kill them easly and stop crying about mercs. after wipe you have to pay them salary so they will be even more expensive. i had 1 merc tank leader but my mercs suck ass. i prefer use high hp mercs but if i die well my mercs are just walking meat for pvp.
and most imprtant think...you cant drop armed mercs over the map...
It's not about what mercs can or can't do. It's about what kind of build you need to have mercs. If gimping your char means getting good mercs, then it's simply not worth it to buy mercs with some other char because you get less with the same money. Better make total retard char and get good mercs and relog often. I'm saying features that support gimped alts aren't good at all.
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no, i am trying to make ultimate merc build and it is pain in the ass...beside not only luck/ch/en count with mercs hp...my ultimake boosted merc leader is weak and almost imposible to lvl up. so stop crying about "mercs are boosted because he some special points", if u didnt want to have high hp mercs at begin well all you have to do set luck 1 ch 7-8 and rest in stats so u can fight as merc leade tank...i think merc leader who can barly handle pistol with high hp mercs isnt same like 290hp ++toughnes/man of steel tank with normal mercs. avv something for something for something. if u dont want to buy mercs just dont make merc leader build
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no, i am trying to make ultimate merc build and it is pain in the ass...
Yes it's pain in the ass to level and play in general. Why does the game have to encourage making builds like this? All it does is to encourage everyone to level up such build or not take mercs at all. Get the best or don't participate.
I'm trying to propose an alternative so why don't you tell me how would it be bad for gameplay to make it so that all mercs had same hp despite the build? Let's say all human mercs had 200 hp and all muties had 300.
The leader himself could be an okay fighter, but not the best fighter because 10cha and 300 speech would still be pretty big investment.
This way you could actually be good mercleader and a slaver and taking Good Natured would a be a real tradeoff. Currently only mercleaders take good natured because they are so awful they can't get slaves anyway.
avv something for something for something.
There is no tradeoff if you only use the merc leader to lead mercs and when you don't do that anymore, you just log off.
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You know AVV I think you are stressing over nothing. Making a gimped merc leader is going to be super hard. It seems easy because we can get unlimted amount of caps get to level 24 in seconds. Have you gone out and combat? Easy things like pig rats and the such are going to be a pain in the ass to fight at level 1-5, I don't want to ruin the suprise why its going to be even tougher to level gimped characters :D I was getting pissed off fighting the simplest things like pig rats with a level 24 tank build.
The Gimped Merc Leader = Going to get owned by the easiest of NPCs and most well just probably rage quit or try something else. You also have to make a ton of caps, the server is going to be wiped remember? So there won't be millionares right away. I can see this as a problem maybe when the next session has been on as long as the current one sure. But making caps is not easy and the NPCs are way harder now. And also there is no bank exploit which has made everybody rich to begin with in this session. I mean good luck, getting caps is going to be way it is now current, nobody is going to have them because people figure out how to suck all the caps dry from the merchants.
In a way if you have a gimped merc leader at level 24, and were able to get the caps to support the Mercs they deserve to have high HP mercs because they went through the trouble and spent countless hours trying to get this character going. Its not an easy route starting from level 1.
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In a way if you have a gimped merc leader at level 24, and were able to get the caps to support the Mercs they deserve to have high HP mercs because they went through the trouble and spent countless hours trying to get this character going. Its not an easy route starting from level 1.
So because someone worked his ass off outside of the actual pvp event, he deserves to kick everyone's asses? Isn't this the same thing if you could buy game nukes with real money and drop them over other player's heads without them not being able to do anything about it?
The challenges and decisions which lead to victory must happen inside the pvp, not outside grinding npcs and getting caps. Otherwise it starts an arms race where some are bitching because they don't have what it takes to do pvp, others are bitching it takes too long to get pvp stuff and some are just silent and grudgingly grind, not really enjoying the game but doing what needs to be done to win.
It won't happen all the time but trust me, when a gang wants to really really win it will use every method available. When pvp was hot in current session, we saw mercs in every major confrontation. When you want to win, you use mercs. And if it takes a retard-build to get those mercs, you will get it.
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So because someone worked his ass off outside of the actual pvp event, he deserves to kick everyone's asses?
yes..and avv u forget about few important things
1. mercs request from you dayly/monthly salary or they will leave
2. number of mercs is nefted and making merc leader with 270-300speach good natured and mangetic is pain in the ass
3. if i worked my ass to get high lvl mercs i deserw high lvl mercs at begin
4. something for something
5. you cant drop them off the sky now. you have to arm them or wait for them if they will arm themself
6. you cant trade with mercs now, now you have to pay them for everything or rob them
7. try to lvl up 24lvl merc leader who need buff and mentans and cola with 10/10 ch/luck/en and at least pe6 to see your mercs hp with speac 270-300
mercs are finally balanced
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So because someone worked his ass off outside of the actual pvp event, he deserves to kick everyone's asses? Isn't this the same thing if you could buy game nukes with real money and drop them over other player's heads without them not being able to do anything about it?
The challenges and decisions which lead to victory must happen inside the pvp, not outside grinding npcs and getting caps. Otherwise it starts an arms race where some are bitching because they don't have what it takes to do pvp, others are bitching it takes too long to get pvp stuff and some are just silent and grudgingly grind, not really enjoying the game but doing what needs to be done to win.
It won't happen all the time but trust me, when a gang wants to really really win it will use every method available. When pvp was hot in current session, we saw mercs in every major confrontation. When you want to win, you use mercs. And if it takes a retard-build to get those mercs, you will get it.
Well you reap what you sow, and what's wrong with competition? Come on its you who basically started its the Wasteland its harsh thing in IRC. Its the Wasteland its harsh the weak well parish the strong well survive.
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yes..and avv u forget about few important things
1. mercs request from you dayly/monthly salary or they will leave
So grind more.
2. number of mercs is nefted and making merc leader with 270-300speach good natured and mangetic is pain in the ass
Why do we need pain in the ass builds?
3. if i worked my ass to get high lvl mercs i deserw high lvl mercs at begin
In my opinion you don't. Just because you have more freetime to grind money, it doesn't mean you're the king of the server.
4. something for something
Which doesn't apply with alts.
5. you cant drop them off the sky now. you have to arm them or wait for them if they will arm themself
With "attack everyone" they rearm pretty damn fast already. It's just you can't pull out like before. But if you win the fight, that hardly matters.
6. you cant trade with mercs now, now you have to pay them for everything or rob them
Bug? If not, then you steal from them with your thief alt in your base.
7. try to lvl up 24lvl merc leader who need buff and mentans and cola with 10/10 ch/luck/en and at least pe6 to see your mercs hp with speac 270-300
It's doable, so there's nothing to it. People who want that kind of build just do it whether or not they like it, it's just another thing if it's good we have this kind of builds around.
Well you reap what you sow, and what's wrong with competition? Come on its you who basically started its the Wasteland its harsh thing in IRC. Its the Wasteland its harsh the weak well parish the strong well survive.
Grinding competition? Because it's boring. I like to compete against my enemies face to face, not who has the most patience to grind.
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avv stop crying.
mercs are finally balanced and solar should close this topic. everyone use mercs and stop crying about it.
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Maybe I suggest you go PvP ape build and not use a merc leader if that's not what you like doing?
You're giving us the impression that there should be no reward for making a pain in the ass character to level and very expensive to maintain? I think its balanced not everybody is going to be using this build. You're not the only person who doesn't have patience to spend hours on end leveling and making caps. But for those that do yes I think they should at least have a reward for making this shit build you so speak about. Plus you didn't even post the build so not everybody is going to know how to make it, unless you blab your mouth about the build its not going to be well known. So if you do not want this AVV I suggest you keep this build to your self and let people experiment trying to figure it out, they well either figure it out or give up.
But knowing how TTTLA and its friends operate, you well probably just tell your TTTLA friends so they have an edge like usual. Then it well be others who well complain and not you if this happens as you speak.
I do not see a problem with Merc battles, they are risky because its expensive and people get pissed off losing mercs because of this. So I do not see this as a daily occurrence if these sort of battles happen. As long as you can't add these Mercs to the militia which makes them more powerful then it well be fine as is in my opinion.
Mercs are hard to control, if you set them to kill everybody to go off ramboing like idiots and players can 1 hex them in a room or something. If you control them with this so called build it well die easily so what is the big deal?
I hate merc leaders just as much as anybody else but I think its worth the time and money players put into them because it does take hours if not days to maintain a good amount of caps to support them. I just hate when mercs are added to militia and they are 500 hp and do godly amount of criticals and fire rapidly without reloading in the current session when its used against me. But I can't complain when I'm on the side of using this tactic :D
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merc build is for mercs nor for pvp. merc leader is just running and making sure his mercs are still alive
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I do not see a problem with Merc battles
Then you haven't seen a merc battle. In the beginning of current session victory was valued more than now because stuff was rarer and players were actually fighting over the ruledom of server. So mercs were used alot and people did not enjoy it. When players really want to win, they will do what it takes even if it's not fun. Then the opposite will either have to do the same or suffer defeat. Then nobody has fun.
You're giving us the impression that there should be no reward for making a pain in the ass character to level and very expensive to maintain?
That's right. Why do we have to work so that we can have fun? Can't we have fun and then have fun again?
If you reward pain in the ass experiences, you basically force everyone else to do it or go away. It's visible in general pvp, get BAs and top tier guns or either don't participate or get defeated and have a bad time. That kind of equipment is reasonably easy to get so it's not a big deal.
Mercs are hard to control, if you set them to kill everybody to go off ramboing like idiots and plays can 1 hex them in a room or something. If you control them with this so called build it well die easily so what is the big deal?
This can be put other way around: you don't basically do any other decisions than letting the mercs free. It's like dropping a nuke on the enemy and hoping them to die.
merc build is for mercs nor for pvp. merc leader is just running and making sure his mercs are still alive
This is basically the problem I see in this build. It can't do anything but this. Can you honestly answer why is it good in your opinion that the game encourages making builds that:
a: can do only one thing
b: are boring to level and play in general
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avv did you run like moron to exit grid and you get killed by bg jump? ;] or you just cant kill mercs because of low skill. if you know how to fight with mercs and you dont run away when you see running/walking mercs on you you can kill them very easly...same muties are just walking hp and action points eaters for pvp. i will make for sure retard merc leader for 3muties 500hp at begin and i will lvl up them to 600+hp at least, but they will die for sure and i know it. mercs leaders are just pvp support or main tactics for lame gangs like tttla and s8
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This game encourages a lot of things that shouldn't be encouraged.
I see your point AVV but this isn't the same as this session. This isn't going to be buy 5 super mutants and drop them on players. A 260 knife wielding merc isn't anything special when players can have 290hp max. Trust me merc leaders make me mad but mercs are still kill able. Its self rewarding to go through a pain in the ass build and getting caps to support such a thing. But its also self rewarding when you kill all the mercs and made the guy lose a ton of money :D
As long as they don't do the same stupid mistake of adding mercs to militia during a TC timer mercs aren't that hard to kill if your with enough people.
Plus the mutant merc is slow, if you have an AC character you can run away from it where it can't hit you :D
Maybe its difference in opinion but I believe hard work pays off. And I like things that are challenging and not super easy that take no time at all. I do not like games that are too easy which is why I play this game because its very challenging and doesn't have all the traditional hold your hand shit that new games have.
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They should finally remove those retarded NPC followers and add more options than to "roll dice more often" or "grind more".
'Merc leaders' being the extreme of second choice of course.
There is nothing worse than multiplayer cRPG clogged with unnecessary NPCs, when it already worked without them fantastically.
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they are big advantage but they are just stupid npc and they cost fortune. remember after wipe everyone will be bancrout