fodev.net
Other => Closed Beta => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Winter 2011/2012 => Topic started by: gr1m055 on December 18, 2011, 06:52:58 am
-
Why is the armor class jumping up and down it goes 0 then 25 back down to 0 for example? I assume this is bug that needs to be reported, also armor class is 0 in all the menus.
Off topic, but why do none of the cars have trunks?
-
No bug, AC applied only when running.
For the cars, bug.
-
oh...
-
No bug, AC applied only when running.
Dang! That makes complete lack of sense imo...
-
Dang! That makes complete lack of sense imo...
How come? It makes more sense than having high ac when not moving.
-
Oh yeah right... i forgot it's way more easier to dodge attacks when you run contrary to when you stand and expect blows and shots...
-
Oh yeah right... i forgot it's way more easier to dodge attacks when you run contrary to when you stand and expect blows and shots...
If that's irony you're retarded. Do you really think someone standing will dodge a bullet?
-
From my experience most retarded people call others as such...
As for AC - you may be right if you're talking about one shot but it's be easier to dodge greater amount bullets from burst when standing rather than running... (see those chains or bullets hitting ground/walls/surroundings?)
But in case of HtH fighters - you can avoid attack when you are ready for it... not when you cannot do shit about incomming blow...
-
Don't talk nonsense. You're never dodging something on purpose, its just harder to hit a moving target
-
From my experience most retarded people call others as such...
Ok, I admit that was rude, but seriously, matrix doesn't work IRL. A bullet goes far too fast to be dodged. As Solar said, it's simply harder to hit a moving target, especially if it move fast/erratically (therefore malus for armor and bonus for perks).
-
AC modifies more than chance to hit your bullets. Like you know, you can definitely dodge a punch or a kick.
-
Well it seems you can do this, you either go all out damage resistance perks and take less damage standing still, or dodging perks if you want a person to have less of a chance to hit you as you run.
There are trade offs you could do a all out dodger / max damage resistance but you have no health, or you can do all health and some dodging and some damage resistance but no damage or criticals. I would see AC perks being useful for snipers who need to run back and not get hit to get in max change or melee. I think it all boils down to what you prefer and this well take some time when this next session starts to figure out what you are comfortable with.
You hate being crippled you go anti-cripple perks you want to go full on damage you take BRD / More crit. Want to burst wice you sacrfice either health or damage resistance. It should be an interesting blend next session.
-
Don't talk nonsense. You're never dodging something on purpose, its just harder to hit a moving target
Well i'm training HtH combat myself in RL (also ASG and simmilar stuff) so i have learned this:
1 If you are not dodging on purpose but out of fear/instinct are half a step from being a dead meat... (melee/unarmed combat rather than gunfight)
2 it's easier to hit moving target (from a gun- at mid+ distance) if he/she runs away in straight line than for example making some rolling, hitting the ground, crouching etc
(...) but seriously, matrix doesn't work IRL. A bullet goes far too fast to be dodged.(...)
Of course it is impossible to dodge a bullet! BUT you are not dodging the bullet but apparent gun's barrel trajectory (it's hard as hell and nigh impossible yet with proper training...). When bursting if a first bullet hits you - it's all over i admit but if it wont, you get a chance for dodging it before spray reaches you...
-
Why does RL keep coming up in these convo's? In RL do you get hit with a rocket and get back up again?
-
Then have the game mechanics reason.
AC needs to be high to be useful. If there is high AC when standing then its only useful for snipers kiting.
I wanted AC. To be used for getting into range to help all lower range weapons - so it became AC when running only.
That it also makes sense in RL is just a happy coincidence
-
Then have the game mechanics reason.
AC needs to be high to be useful. If there is high AC when standing then its only useful for snipers kiting.
I wanted AC. To be used for getting into range to help all lower range weapons - so it became AC when running only.
That it also makes sense in RL is just a happy coincidence
See now you're actually talking reason.
-
Then have the game mechanics reason.
(1)AC needs to be high to be useful. If there is high AC when standing then its only useful for snipers kiting.
(2)I wanted AC. To be used for getting into range to help all lower range weapons - so it became AC when running only.
(3)That it also makes sense in RL is just a happy coincidence
1 - Amen to that! (Havce you guys played "Lionheart"? It was codenamed Fallout Fantasy - RT only and instead of big resists there were massive AC - i recommend it if you haven't try it before)
2 - Well for games' sake i'll cease to argue about realism...
3 - ...as it's obviously lacking in that part (proven above) ;P
-
What's sense of AC in TB ?
-
What's sense of AC in TB ?
Is this even a serious question?
-
To gain the benefit of AC in turn based you need to be "running" too. Turn based running is using over half your AP to move in the previous turn
-
is using over half
Can you tell about this more accurately ?
-
I don't know how I could break it down more simply
-
Can you tell about this more accurately ?
If I understood correctly:
Let's say you have a build with 8 Action Points.
If you moved at least 5 hexes in the previous turn, you get the AC bonus, like you would be running in RT.
I must say it's a pretty smart way to represent running in TB.
I wonder if devs implemented unsneaking in TB this way too (without silent running perk).
-
Solar said "over half". An axample i have 10 ap. Then for AC-bonus i need move on 5 or on 6 AP ?
-
I rather walk then run in the game. Will AC be taken into account if I am not running but just walking?
-
What about bonus move? If you have 8 ap +2 for walking do you need to move 5 or 6 hex?
What about first turn? If one was running befor TB kicked in will one get AC?
Is the AC down to 0, or down to only armor-provided AC?
In RT the AC drop is instand or is there some delay?
It's kind of hard for me to imagine the use of AC now other then running to the grid.
Sure in a situation where you have to move far to get im range ac would be a bonus...but a bonus worth few perks? Even for melee +100AC will be little use at point blank vs burst...and if it is then a melee fighter has to one-hit a enemy or next turn he won't have any AC or less then half AP to attack.
I wanted to play a jinxed dogger post wipe, but now I don't :(
-
What about bonus move? If you have 8 ap +2 for walking do you need to move 5 or 6 hex?
What about first turn? If one was running befor TB kicked in will one get AC?
Is the AC down to 0, or down to only armor-provided AC?
In RT the AC drop is instand or is there some delay?
It's kind of hard for me to imagine the use of AC now other then running to the grid.
Sure in a situation where you have to move far to get im range ac would be a bonus...but a bonus worth few perks? Even for melee +100AC will be little use at point blank vs burst...and if it is then a melee fighter has to one-hit a enemy or next turn he won't have any AC or less then half AP to attack.
I wanted to play a jinxed dogger post wipe, but now I don't :(
When the critter's turn begins: save the current position as pos1.
When the critter's turn ends: denote the current position as pos2. Until the critter's next turn, the critter is considered running if and only if
Distance(pos1,pos2) + action_points_left >= max_action_points/2,
where
- Distance(pos1,pos2) means actual distance between the two hexes. It is not exactly related to the number of hexes the critter have travelled. If you move 1 hex and then return to the original position, it counts the same as if no move was done at all.
- action_points_left are leftover points from the turn. In previous mechanics, these were simply added to critter's AC until its next turn (or end of TB combat).
- max_action_points is obvious.
I once asked almost the same questions, but answer are obvious:
1) Bonus move won't affect anything, because APs from Bonus move aren't APs. So if you'll have bonus move, it'll be good, as you can change your position and then spend all your APs on shooting/doing actions and get AC bonus even when you moved only few hexes spending all APs on shooting for example.
2) Can't remember where, but I read somewhere that 1st turn considered if you were running, so you'll get bonus AC, unfortunately can't prove now. May be find quote later.
3) Armors will make AC negative or won't affect at all. So... you'll have 0 AC when not moving or N AC when moving where N is your AG*3 (or *6 with perk) +dodger perks if have any +HtH evade perk if requirements are met -AC from armor if any.
4) Haven't played CBT, but some guy "reported" bug that his AC always changed when he moved (seems like he didn't know about AC thing), so it means it changes instantly, I think.
To gain the benefit of AC in turn based you need to be "running" too. Turn based running is using over half your AP to move in the previous turn
Not entirely true.
Judging from formula, you don't have to move all the time, you need to change position, so you can knock back yourself with grenade while spending 0 APs on moving and will get AC. The same thing with bonus move, you can always move without spending APs changing your position.
Can you tell about this more accurately ?
More accurately it means... over the half ;p
It means more than half.
It means if you have 10 AP, you need to move more than half, so more than 5 AP. More than 5 AP means 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10.
But it's not always truth, as I already said about bonus move perks and knock backs.
In other words:
You standing in some hex at start of your turn.
Then you throw a grenade into someone in point blank and it knock backs you on for example 3 hexes back.
The distance between you and your starting hex is 3 hexes now.
You spent 0 APs on moving, however you moved.
You're throwing another grenade just to spend all your APs completely.
I can't remember how many APs needed for throw, but for example - 3 (with BRoF), so you have max 6 AP.
Now formula (Distance(pos1,pos2) + action_points_left >= max_action_points/2):
3+0 >= 3. You're getting AC without even moving.
And the most simple example:
You.. simply don't move at all... just skip turn.
0+6 >= 3. Yes, you'll get AC, judging from formula.
And just throw 1 grenade and skip turn.
0+3 >= 3. You'll get AC too.
-
It means more than half.
It means if you have 10 AP, you need to move more than half, so more than 5 AP. More than 5 AP means 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10.
I can't remember how many APs needed for throw, but for example - 3 (with BRoF), so you have max 6 AP.
Now formula (Distance(pos1,pos2) + action_points_left >= max_action_points/2):
3+0 >= 3. You're getting AC without even moving.
I have 10.
I used 5 on move and 5 on burst from SMG.
5+0 >= max_action_points/2 (10/2=5)
Where i am wrong ?
For example i have 12 ap + 4 ap (2 bonuses move) = 16. Is it mean that i need use 4 ap from bonus + 2 from main AP for get AC ?
-
Where i am wrong ?
Yes, you're not wrong, I was explaining Solar's post about "more than half", without searching for formula 1st, then I wanted to answer to pistacja and moved it all on top of post.
Actually it's not more than half, it's half or more. And you don't need to spend them on move, you can also don't spend them at all, or you can even spend some of them on other actions if you were knocked back or moved by some other reason, if this formula won't be changed.
I think Bonus move perk won't be included, as it's not regular APs, if only again, formula won't be changed.
Also it requires testing, for example:
You stand on some hex, then shoot, then move to grid which is near, then enter that enc again (for example you see this enc because of radio signal or car), you enter and it still your turn, you shoot again and your turn ends, you're standing in totally other position, may be there can be 30 hexes distance between these 2 hexes, so you'll get AC, may be.
-
Youre wrong about one thing Ravenous.
You quoted formula, and there is something like that: "when critters turn begins...", so it means, that doesnt matter if you get shot by RL, or grenade from other critter/player, because its not YOUR turn then. You can still try to knock out yourself, but... well, its trololo so maybe you can try:P
-
What's sense of AC in TB ?
Is this even a serious question?
Actually I think that is a very good question. You know there are people who like playing this game in turn base, how is AC going to apply if all you do is walk in turn base? I would like to know also, I sometimes play turn based when I farm in this current session.
-
Youre wrong about one thing Ravenous.
You quoted formula, and there is something like that: "when critters turn begins...", so it means, that doesnt matter if you get shot by RL, or grenade from other critter/player, because its not YOUR turn then. You can still try to knock out yourself, but... well, its trololo so maybe you can try:P
And where I said about KB from other player? >_>
I just pointed out that you don't have to actually move, with your own legs.
-
If that's irony you're retarded. Do you really think someone standing will dodge a bullet?
Ummmm u ever hear of the Matrix?
-
About the bullet-dodging.
Hardly possible whatsoever, but if you think about it, not entirely "IMPOSSIBLE U FUCK NUB".
If someone with enough nerve, near-complete lack of self-survival, etc were to pay attention the the guy with the gun, he could look at where the enemy is pointing the gun, and move out of the way right before the shot is fired.
Of course, it'd have to be overly if not impossibly calculated movements, with extreme agility, but no problem for the guy with 10 agility and 10 perception hm? :)
-
If someone with enough nerve, near-complete lack of self-survival
No, you just need to be 1v1 and see opponent's eyes, it enough to "dodge" bullets, the problem is you need to be close him and from fallout's point of view AC would be affected by PE and IN and doctor/science skill, as you need to know humans much, but the game has nothing to do with real life ;p
-
And where I said about KB from other player? >_>
I just pointed out that you don't have to actually move, with your own legs.
Then yes. youre right:) But still its pointless, to waste APs instead of... wasting APs.
-
What about the HTH perks AC modiffiers? I was suggesting than that where static, because if is related to martial arts/street fighting have nothing to do whit running, its about good reflexes and hand/feet teckniques (or moving a la matrix style for evading bullets (?) )