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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: davrot on November 18, 2012, 12:03:26 pm
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Gatling lasers chop us in half, snipers knock us out, I for one would like a strong melee weapon in this game to reward hth fighters for their hardships in battle.
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I present to you the Super Sledge. Knock yourself out.
My opinion, Melee and Unarmed will never be better than guns without overpowering it. Its really too difficult to balance these.
I'd like to think i can be proven wrong.
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I present to you the Super Sledge. Knock yourself out.
My opinion, Melee and Unarmed will never be better than guns without overpowering it. Its really too difficult to balance these.
I'd like to think i can be proven wrong.
Still requires to bang your opponents repeatedly into submission. High tier melee combat should be quick and lethal for such close range.
And don't use such a tiny font, it makes you look like a jackass.
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Well, as far as I remember only cattle prods got different damage type (electric) in melee arsenal, so this is a nice idea.
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http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Plasma_torch
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All there is left to do is implement it ;D
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I am not sure if fonline is prepared for something like this. It might become trolling tool quite easily.
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I am not sure if fonline is prepared for something like this. It might become trolling tool quite easily.
How is it any different from one hexing someone?
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I am not sure if fonline is prepared for something like this. It might become trolling tool quite easily.
Not if it will be expensive and hard to get
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How is it any different from one hexing someone?
The difference between onehexing with ranged weapon and onehexing with unarmed is that unarmed auto-tracks your char to the enemy and won't release the attack until the char is indeed within 1-hex range.
1hex move with ranged weapon requires skill, timing and reflexes because you have to manually move your character next to the enemy and launch the attack. If you launch too soon, you do 1/3 of the desired damage and likely get onehexed yourself due to the animation time.
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The difference between onehexing with ranged weapon and onehexing with unarmed is that unarmed auto-tracks your char to the enemy and won't release the attack until the char is indeed within 1-hex range.
1hex move with ranged weapon requires skill, timing and reflexes because you have to manually move your character next to the enemy and launch the attack. If you launch too soon, you do 1/3 of the desired damage and likely get onehexed yourself due to the animation time.
Melee characters with a plasma torch would still have a disadvantage over ranged characters. What's stopping you from just fleeing, wait for ap to regenerate and burst that nuisance from afar?
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Melee characters with a plasma torch would still have a disadvantage over ranged characters. What's stopping you from just fleeing, wait for ap to regenerate and burst that nuisance from afar?
unarmed auto-tracks your char to the enemy and won't release the attack until the char is indeed within 1-hex range.
Isn't it quite simple enough?
Back to theme: plasma torch shouldn't be in game with current stats.
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Isn't it quite simple enough?
Back to theme: plasma torch shouldn't be in game with current stats.
You still have to get close to your enemy to deal any sort of damage and by that time you could get either knocked out or bursted for 500+ damage. Simple no? Gatling laser shouldn't be in game with current stats also but you don't see people whining about it.
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You still have to get close to your enemy to deal any sort of damage and by that time you could get either knocked out or bursted for 500+ damage. Simple no? Gatling laser shouldn't be in game with current stats also but you don't see people whining about it.
What's wrong with gatling? It only instakills people without any protection which is totally justified. And 500 dmg is reachable only with bypass critburst or onehex. Only problem with it is that either it deals really good, good or hardly any damage depending on enemy's armor but that's another issue entirely.
The reason why unarmed and melee can never compete against ranged characters is that it's strategy is too simple and has too little options. And the ranged trooper can always just choose to run away, which turns this game into retarded hide and seek catch game, which was witnessed when we had HH trolls.
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What's wrong with gatling? It only instakills people without any protection which is totally justified. And 500 dmg is reachable only with bypass critburst or onehex. Only problem with it is that either it deals really good, good or hardly any damage depending on enemy's armor but that's another issue entirely.
The reason why unarmed and melee can never compete against ranged characters is that it's strategy is too simple and has too little options. And the ranged trooper can always just choose to run away, which turns this game into retarded hide and seek catch game, which was witnessed when we had HH trolls.
This game has already turned into a retarded super stimpak bg slugfest, all I'm asking is for a little bit of variety. I'm not interested in unarmed trolls, I'm talking purely about melee characters who already need to be fully geared up to be effective. We can argue about this all year or we can get the devs to implement this weapon in the game to see who was right. The same devs implemented 220 AC which made the game broken, so why should they be afraid of implementing this weapon? If it's overpowered they are free to remove it, but don't deny us the chance to test it properly. After all, we're in open beta.
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This game has already turned into a retarded super stimpak bg slugfest, all I'm asking is for a little bit of variety. I'm not interested in unarmed trolls, I'm talking purely about melee characters who already need to be fully geared up to be effective. We can argue about this all year or we can get the devs to implement this weapon in the game to see who was right. The same devs implemented 220 AC which made the game broken, so why should they be afraid of implementing this weapon? If it's overpowered they are free to remove it, but don't deny us the chance to test it properly. After all, we're in open beta.
agree.Why dont try and see what happend?
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This game has already turned into a retarded super stimpak bg slugfest, all I'm asking is for a little bit of variety. I'm not interested in unarmed trolls, I'm talking purely about melee characters who already need to be fully geared up to be effective. We can argue about this all year or we can get the devs to implement this weapon in the game to see who was right. The same devs implemented 220 AC which made the game broken, so why should they be afraid of implementing this weapon? If it's overpowered they are free to remove it, but don't deny us the chance to test it properly. After all, we're in open beta.
Effective unarmed was and is being tested and it's called heavy handed + mega power fist. It's powerful if you get close, but that's it. Just like the plasma torch would be. Only way to avoid it is to run away and it's not really interesting gameplay in any way. If you add plasma torch in game, the effect is exactly the same. People don't play that kind of build for the reasons explained before: unarmed lacks the options ranged weapons have.
In this case here variety wouldn't increase the quality.
agree.Why dont try and see what happend?
Like what was done with high AC? If there are good reasons to not to do something, then the solution is not to still try and see but simply not do it.
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There you go with unarmed again. Just because you don't like playing with hth builds doesn't mean the rest of the player base has the same opinion as you. Don't bring your personal crusade against hth here, thank you.
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The dmg is fine balancewise, not like hth can do anything to a group of players. Reason high dmg one hex hth is more deserving than high damage 1hex bg is that you HAVE to get within one hex to do damage, bg can kill you at long range. You can get a lot of shots off in the time it takes to run 35 hex. Even if it was a sneak hth with plasma torch, if he gets close enough to kill and you arent alone he's dead and he loses a top tier weapon. Right now there isn't a single hth weapon that could kill a burster faster than he could kill them even sd crit from scp. Oh and as far as electric damage is concerned its shittier than reg against CA, you get killed in mamk2 that's what you get for being cheap. Imo flamer damage should be closer to 150-200 as well.
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There you go with unarmed again. Just because you don't like playing with hth builds doesn't mean the rest of the player base has the same opinion as you. Don't bring your personal crusade against hth here, thank you.
Hth and melee are basically the same thing.
No idea what's the crusade you're talking about I'm just laying down some facts and you calling them personal opinions isn't very smart because that will just derail the whole subject.
Besides, there's nothing wrong to be against suggestions that have the potential to make the gameplay worse.
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Hth and melee are basically the same thing.
No idea what's the crusade you're talking about I'm just laying down some facts and you calling them personal opinions isn't very smart because that will just derail the whole subject.
Besides, there's nothing wrong to be against suggestions that have the potential to make the gameplay worse.
You're the one laying down "facts" about an unimplemented weapon. Your predictions are not the subject of this thread.
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avv's right, but why not buff melee weapons like super sledge or ripper, or mega power fist to be able to kill guy in 1 - 2 hits? Those weapons are best of its tier and cost some more than others, another thing is adding the heavy handed effect to the melee weapons - then it'll have legs and arms, but still damage is too low with hi-teq melee weapons compared to other...
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You're the one laying down "facts" about an unimplemented weapon. Your predictions are not the subject of this thread.
How is plasma torch different from any unarmed/melee weapon when it comes to playstyle?
All melee weapons require you to be right next to the enemy and that's when all the downsides and drawbacks I've explained to you kick in. It doesn't matter if it's super sledge, plasma torch or powerfist - same rules apply.
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How is plasma torch different from any unarmed/melee weapon when it comes to playstyle?
Sheer lethality that allows you to quickly kill your enemy, instead of repeatedly bashing him hoping he would get knocked out while his buddies tickle you with miniguns from behind.
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Sheer lethality that allows you to quickly kill your enemy, instead of repeatedly bashing him hoping he would get knocked out while his buddies tickle you with miniguns from behind.
So you just click on opponent and if you get close, he dies. Doesn't sound particularly fun for anyone because of course the opponent will start running away. Then you chase him forever or let go, just like how heavy handed works. This is the problem all hth fights have.
Only way to get something done would be to lurk in corners but then your whole gameplay narrows down to corners, which basically makes the build quite limited. Balanced weapons are always useful.
If the weapon is so strong it can just kill things it gets close to, it would be overpowered when combined with sneak because low PE chars couldn't see it coming.
If the weapon was incredibly rare, then it would be all the same if it was added or not because situations to use it would be extremely rare and few would dare to risk it.
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Yeah HH is only good against 1 target at a time, anyone halfway serious about pvp travels in groups. You don't have time to knock down a guy 15 times when people are shooting at you and even with mega powerfist you're looking at like 40 damage a punch. That's roughly 10 seconds to kill 1 player when most bursters can kill you in 3. On top of this crits are heavily diminished despite HH pretty much requiring fast shot to be effective. I don't see why there is so much resistance to variety of combat styles, it's like you guys want to be bored.
BTW avv, low pe chars aren't pvp chars, if anything they'd be hth so sneak isn't really an issue. Even if a sneak killed one guy he'd get killed right after and even if so, sneak chars shouldn't be able to kill? Sneak builds are the most demanding builds and they don't perform like they should. Sneak hth isn't even a thing in this game, no one has this build because the weapons suck.
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So you just click on opponent and if you get close, he dies. Doesn't sound particularly fun for anyone because of course the opponent will start running away. Then you chase him forever or let go, just like how heavy handed works. This is the problem all hth fights have.
Only way to get something done would be to lurk in corners but then your whole gameplay narrows down to corners, which basically makes the build quite limited. Balanced weapons are always useful.
If the weapon is so strong it can just kill things it gets close to, it would be overpowered when combined with sneak because low PE chars couldn't see it coming.
If the weapon was incredibly rare, then it would be all the same if it was added or not because situations to use it would be extremely rare and few would dare to risk it.
Yes, lurking around corners. What did you expect? Playing hth characters as snipers?
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Yes, lurking around corners. What did you expect? Playing hth characters as snipers?
Then the gameplay is very limited indeed. In many situations you couldn't do anything at all because the target is too far away or knows where you are. In a team such build would be pointless because it couldn't move along with the rest of his guys and add to the effort like ranged builds do.
For example heavy handed with mega powerfist is still good enough if it just gets close. But haven't seen any characters lurking in corners with it recently. To make a character fun and balanced, it needs to be able to operate everywhere.
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So you just click on opponent and if you get close, he dies.
sorta like BG 1-hexing?
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You use sneak to get close, no build can survive running to the enemy even with max defense and hp. It's stupid to have an mmo that demands team combat when it has barely any players. If you think HH powerfist is good you must have had a lot of friends backing you up or you've never made the build.
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The plasma torch is just a lolzy cheat weapon and not meaned for public use. It will never be available.
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Amen
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The plasma torch is just a lolzy cheat weapon and not meaned for public use. It will never be available.
::) Great so the only weapon that could make hth viable is "lolz cheat weapon". I wish one of the devs would actually come up with new weapon stats instead of modifying f2s crappy system.
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You use sneak to get close, no build can survive running to the enemy even with max defense and hp. It's stupid to have an mmo that demands team combat when it has barely any players. If you think HH powerfist is good you must have had a lot of friends backing you up or you've never made the build.
But like I said, if you only need to get close it'd be too powerful with sneak since you could kill every lone build with low PE. Sneak is balanced around the fact that sneaker can't kill easily those who can't see sneakers. That's why sd plasmagrenades were overpowered.
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The plasma torch is just a lolzy cheat weapon and not meaned for public use. It will never be available.
Yes, how dare they suggest making hth actually viable.
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you could kill every lone build with low PE
Sort of like a sniper?
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max hp pvp tank builds.... oh what fun.
Strategy? Rock em sock em robots with egregious use of SS...
I hope this isn't too technical for ya ;)
Any other builds viable, nope....
Very creative, thanks for all the variety of icecream, vanilla, or vanilla...
Actually you can blame the PvP community for this one, they whined till it was this way.
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::) Great so the only weapon that could make hth viable is "lolz cheat weapon". I wish one of the devs would actually come up with new weapon stats instead of modifying f2s crappy system.
Yes, how dare they suggest making hth actually viable.
My point was, that the plasma torch is a lol-weapon and won't be available in the game. Nothing else.
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My point was, that the plasma torch is a lol-weapon and won't be available in the game. Nothing else.
And why not nerf it and then implement it? Whats wrong with having a little variety?
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Hmm... Restoration Project mod had lightsaber...
Not saying it's not ridiculous or completely unreal, but I remember it was a very nice end-game melee weapon.
I wouldn't mind if either super sledge was buffed to that point or they added the lightsaber in-game, though i remember some animations were pretty bad for bald/long hair guys.
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Balancing melee weapons is a dead-end, leave it.
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Balancing melee weapons is a dead-end, leave it.
Yeah because the current bg or gatling is so damn interesting
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A damage boost doesn't seem like it would fix the problem.
As said before, a melee stands little chance at range, and even if you DO get close, you'd probably still be having a mouth full of lead.
Know one thing that would make it more balanced?
Nerf all gunz.
'BUT NONONO! WE CANNOT HAVED THIS - GUNZ BE AWSUM!!1'
We can go one way or the other, but not both it seems.
*sigh* I just don't think melee can into PvP.
@@Suggestion
@@Make 'Spray and Pray' ignore half of crit resist/mod.
@@But make 'Hit the Gaps' do the same, but work with aimed shots aswell.
@@Probably won't change much, i don't know.
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Balancing melee weapons is a dead-end, leave it.
Yes, and the current situation is way better. BGOnline: 2238 Super Stimpaks.
i don't know.
Then don't post.
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My point was, that the plasma torch is a lol-weapon and won't be available in the game. Nothing else.
why lol weapon? Lol weapon situation is when u hit by 500+ whit avenger or m60 and for some reason u critt dude in hand whit sniper for like 70 hp.That is lol stuff coz bg this days in pvp are must have.
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My point was, that the plasma torch is a lol-weapon and won't be available in the game. Nothing else.
I just dont get one thing. If you see,that players are trying to improve something in the game,cause they really think,its needed,why do GMs/Admins/Developers/Gods or call yourself whatever you want, just say: No,lol cheat weapon,it will never be implemented............ nothing else? No motivation to do something about it? Like:
1.) It will not be implemented with these stats,we will try to change them and see.
2.) Not the plasma, we will prefer improving something else,if you think its unbalanced.
3.) We can make other weapon instead
4.) We can change other perk so close combat warriors have a chance against ranged...
Or freakin milion other solutions. I have never played as close combat warrior but I understand whats the point. I just dont get,why does GM just stay: NO and thats the end for everything? If players cant change anything because they cant and you cant change anything because you dont want or? Explain please...we are in BETA. Thats means testing and seeing results or at leats give reasons why yes good idea, or why not,bad idea...Because: Lol cheat weapon not avaible to use in public - Im sorry,but thats really reason like from 2 year old child....I dont want to harras you or something, I just want to see a little motivation and doing (not doing) things for players,who support you and like this game. And I put a hand on my heart, that its really difficult to like this game with all the stuff around,and you know what i mean..
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I say nothing else, because whatever I say, people will jump on it and rage on. See, even now that I wrote nothing specific people are jumping up on it.
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I just dont get one thing. If you see,that players are trying to improve something in the game...
Since ages.
why do GMs/Admins/Developers/Gods or call yourself whatever you want
Oh come on. On this forum everyone is arrogant to each other, devs to players, players to devs...
No,lol cheat weapon,it will never be implemented............ nothing else? No motivation to do something about it? Like:
1.) It will not be implemented with these stats,we will try to change them and see.
2.) Not the plasma, we will prefer improving something else,if you think its unbalanced.
3.) We can make other weapon instead
4.) We can change other perk so close combat warriors have a chance against ranged...
1. Explain, why it's so important to do it.
2. Explain, why it is so interesting.
3. Why new weapon mus be made, old ones are still unbalanced.
4. It was tried with AC and we got it and it was bad.
Or freakin milion other solutions.
Well shit, try to to find and formulate at least a single good one, you genious.
I have never played as close combat warrior but I understand whats the point.
You contradict yourself in one sentence.
I just dont get,why does GM just stay: NO and thats the end for everything? If players cant change anything because they cant and you cant change anything because you dont want or?
Ask yourself if you really want to spend so much effort in implementation of your idea.
Explain please...we are in BETA. Thats means testing and seeing results or at leats give reasons why yes good idea, or why not,bad idea...Because: Lol cheat weapon not avaible to use in public - Im sorry,but thats really reason like from 2 year old child....I dont want to harras you or something, I just want to see a little motivation and doing (not doing) things for players,who support you and like this game. And I put a hand on my heart, that its really difficult to like this game with all the stuff around,and you know what i mean..
So much noble thoughts, so badly articulated... I think you nourish certain illusions about the game, as many new players do.
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The fact that we can't get anything new until the old is fixed or "balanced" makes me really sad.
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The fact that we can't get anything new until the old is fixed or "balanced" makes me really sad.
Why do you give a fuck about it, man? How do you actually enjoy the game?
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Why do you give a fuck about it, man? How do you actually enjoy the game?
By idling in NCR with lots of useless gear trying to dodge bombs.
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Heh.
Better than me, i'm RPing a miner.