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PVP Revolution

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avv:
So there we have it: build is the key factor when it comes to victory, skill cannot overcome better build. When both sides have similar builds, the skill starts to matter. This is what I wanted to see acknowledged, nothing else.

In this paragraph lies the biggest flaw in our pvp. It doesn't matter what kind of build is in question, it is still controlled by another player. This build may still get into fight with another player who has better build. Just because the another player has better build, why does he deserve a victory? If in normal pvp with powerbuilds the more skilled wins, why doesn't this add to all fighting? Making a build doesn't take skill so it shouldn't provide rewards that skill would normally provide: a victory.
There is no other way to influence players than fighting, so a bad combat build cannot pay back in any way no matter how skilled its player is. He cannot compensate his lack of fighting abilities with briliant repair, for example.

John Ryder:
Build depends on the skill. If you are experienced and you know what you are doing you will probably make yourself better build than someone who plays for a month or never been in any gang. Thus skill depends on the fight's outcome.

Crazy:
Even without a perfectly optimized build, with good skill and strategy, you can win against a powerbuild. But it's obvious that you have better chance with better build. But I agree with John Ryder, build is part of skill. In Starcraft strategy is and good micro/macro management is skill. In Quake, fast reflexes, great accuracy, know when you need what weapon is skill. Here, make a good char is part of skill with tacticts.

avv:

--- Quote from: John Ryder on October 14, 2010, 05:12:37 PM ---Build depends on the skill. If you are experienced and you know what you are doing you will probably make yourself better build than someone who plays for a month or never been in any gang. Thus skill depends on the fight's outcome.

--- End quote ---

What if this build was made by someone else? Anyone can just copy each other's builds and that's whats going all the time.

But all the same, you make a build only once but play with it the rest of the gaming time. So saying that the skill and experience invested in build should grant similar benefits as skill normally does, is the same thing as saying that headshots in some fps game should always be scored if you did it once.


--- Quote from: Crazy on October 14, 2010, 05:22:49 PM ---Even without a perfectly optimized build, with good skill and strategy, you can win against a powerbuild. But it's obvious that you have better chance with better build. But I agree with John Ryder, build is part of skill. In Starcraft strategy is and good micro/macro management is skill. In Quake, fast reflexes, great accuracy, know when you need what weapon is skill. Here, make a good char is part of skill with tacticts.
--- End quote ---

The difference between fonline, quake and starcraft skill investments is that in sc and quake player is constantly challenged to do better. In fonline you only need to do this investment once, if you even do it and you will receive rewards for the rest of the gaming time against weaker builds. Add that kind of system in quake or sc and you got a broken game.
Fonline is still slightly about micromanagement, we manage only one char. That's the skill needed in powerbuild pvp. So because I said earlier that adding build-creating system over startcraft would break the game, isn't fonline already broken if it's a mix of build creating and micromanagement?

VongJin:
ok last touch and i'm done here:

1)lets take a poor one day newby with  BA+avenger+ RL+2 SS 220% BG 150% FA and 110 doc and lets say 240 hp(BG powerbuild)

2)lets take pro player with metal armor + avenger+RL +2 ss 160%bg 100 FA and 80 doc and 170 hp(unfinished regular bg build with 3 cha and for exmpl no brd at all)

3) dumping them in Hinkley Battlezone 1vs1 and making bets.

I will bet for pro player coz:
He will use tactics, not just random shooting.
He will have better screen aim and reaction.
He will always use cover.
He will burst at point blank coz he knows what it have x3 dmg mod.
He will use RL at medium range and avenger at close combat.
Pro player knows his own weak sides and strong sides and he can  turn it  both for advantage.

There is some % of luck in every battle for sure because of SPECIAL in this system we need to roll 15-20 even for successful breath.
But still... skill takes main part in PvP combat.

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