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Author Topic: PvP concept - accident or intention?  (Read 2614 times)

Lordus

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PvP concept - accident or intention?
« on: August 02, 2010, 05:54:56 am »

 I think that current PvP (TC,..) is more accident than intetion. And i offer some solutions..

 Devs retake Fallout universe, special, perks, skills, weapons, no major review of transforming combat from TB to realtime (biggunner runs by same speed like unarmed,..). Also organized PvP is result of accident, or at lest without any deep intetion, why?

1) Description of current PvP:

 Current PvP consist of 2 stages.

a) sneaker stage
b) full equip junkie fight stage

 ad a) sneakers (nade - majority , big gun, p90 - minority) playes their roles: checking enemy number and strenght, avoiding enemy of buying militia or buying militia, looting, killing loners and retreaters. It is very funny enrichment of pvp, fresh air, absolutely.

ad b) full equip junkie fight : we have to wait: 25 minutes (TC cooldown) + 5 minutes /sometimes 5 second/ (fight) + 15 minutes bad addict and wc/joint/glass of whine/beer/frogs legs pause + 25 minutes (TC cd) for another fight = 70 minutes (ok, sometimes it take less time, but i.e. in Gecko is best tactic wait for moment of enemy team left reactor), so 40-50 minutes for 2 fights.. ehm, if i play TF2, LFD, Natural selecion or whatever, i play continuosly for one hour.  I think that i dont have to repeat that drugs (junkie chars) are neccesary in pvp.

 We are talking about this in VSB and many of us are seriously thinking about leaving Fonline, because of this. But i dont want to be negative, i offer few ideas, solutions, hope you and other players will find another, better..

 2) there exist 2 different ways how to change it, but they can be implemented together:

a) change current system
 b) add new or change existing roles  into the pvp

 ad a) * set lower cooldowns (can depend on cities locations) .. 10 -15 is enough, so you can safe 10 minutes before each fights)
         * make fight quite longer
         * change drugs (effects, bad edict, nerf whatever)
         * play on toilet
         * fullfil TC pvp of new minigames
ad b) add new roles, "classes" to current (does not matter how you called it: sniper, burster, rocket launcher, sneaker), so fight could be more variable than now

 * medic - like Sius suggested, but changes have to be so radical, that one biggunner or sniper will voluntarily take medic char into pvp insted of combat one.. Do you have idea, i dont have.

 * demoexpert like antisneaker class => sneakers does not have big PE, armor, am i right (generaly), so why not add mines (very limited number, only on pvp ciites) that will kill them

 * non junkue pvp chars - they can play TC minigame, before end of TC coldown:

 i.e.: If you want to capture city, you have to stay in the blue zone. But imagine minigame, that if capturing team will win this, he will be able to stay on every place on the map until TC cooldown without penalty of reseting TC cooldown timer. Example: escort NPC safely from one position to another and defend it for some time, what ever...

3) you can forget my ideas, if you want.. but dont forget on players.. there are news in organized pvp (Town control,..) ahead, but i dont know if there is any deep conception.. last eras it was about adding new system mostly without discusion. Discusion not about the exact view of organized pvp, but the aim, purpose. Dont make this mistake again. And i think, that purpose of current TC with militia was not waiting one hour for 2 fights..
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 05:57:52 am by Lordus »
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Solar

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 10:05:09 am »

Its already been said that next wipe will see a change to drugs and perks. We can't really change these things without also wiping away all characters.

Pretty universal that TC should be 15 minutes too.

Also needs windows putting in to most buildings aswell.


The idea about different minigames for TC is interesting though, maybe eventually it could be several of them and chosen randomly each time.
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Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 11:00:10 am »

Mini-games like to hold several places for shorter period instead one for long time, like to run checkpoints aver all town? Or killing spawning crowds of militia at different places (same as checkpoints but instead holding them more like assault). Or while capturing town there are spawning scouts (crappy sneakers maybe, or good sneakers but frequently toggling it) that appear and run from center of town to call for help, and while you manage to kill them there is no countdown on global for others. For now i run out of ideas.
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Sius

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 12:10:28 pm »

Well one small bird told me, that there is update planned for August so I hope it will be huge up-to-wipe-date.

Pozzo

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2010, 12:37:09 pm »

Quote
We are talking about this in VSB and many of us are seriously thinking about leaving Fonline, because of this. But i dont want to be negative, i offer few ideas, solutions, hope you and other players will find another, better..

Maybe you should take a break of TC and wait until next big update  :-\
In TTTLA team we are a bit bored by actual TC system too. We just keep Broken Hilles to allow people to mine and do some roleplay but we are not a lot interested in other TC. We prefer improvised little fights or fights in New Reno.
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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2010, 03:09:37 pm »

Yes i Agree with This post.. Im very bored with today System =/ and i wait for wipe
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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 04:08:17 pm »

Its already been said that next wipe will see a change to drugs and perks. We can't really change these things without also wiping away all characters.

Pretty universal that TC should be 15 minutes too.

Also needs windows putting in to most buildings aswell.


The idea about different minigames for TC is interesting though, maybe eventually it could be several of them and chosen randomly each time.

100%. Maybe a "deathmatch" TC mode would be 10 minute timer or less and when a person dies, they will respawn at a designated respawn location that is reasonably close, with maybe random assortment of their gear. (They keep armor only, or they have gun but no armor/ammo/drugs etc)
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Sius

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 05:34:27 pm »

100%. Maybe a "deathmatch" TC mode would be 10 minute timer or less and when a person dies, they will respawn at a designated respawn location that is reasonably close, with maybe random assortment of their gear. (They keep armor only, or they have gun but no armor/ammo/drugs etc)

Ehmm its TC we are talking about. Your suggestion sounds more like http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2614.0

Anyway I pretty much don't care about the TC since its repetitive and there is no real goal other than beat the s*** out of the enemy. So current TC is kinda like a Kind of the Hill arena while the town is your battleground. I don't see why are devs so against some casual PvP fights in traditional battlegrounds/arenas. I'm pretty sure it should not be that much of a problem to introduce them into the game. One map, few npcs and scripts for equipment/battleground goals and we are rdy to roll.

Rynn

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 06:36:02 pm »

Also needs windows putting in to most buildings aswell.

I'm not sure that add windows to most of the building in the TC area of each town will be a good things.

Of course it's not a good things too that gang who take the control of a town stay in one of that building, but if the defender don't have a secure zone inside the town... well, I think that most of the gang who play TC will put all their force on the worldmap and let just a little squad inside the TC area. And we will have the same issue than before this feature: preview battle (but without the preview).

In my opinion, it should be more interesting if when the attackers come in the TC area, the defender must chase them away or loose the town. Maybe the attacker should have a way to stop the timer or anything else.

Ned Logan

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 05:01:59 am »

Ehmm its TC we are talking about. Your suggestion sounds more like http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2614.0

Anyway I pretty much don't care about the TC since its repetitive and there is no real goal other than beat the s*** out of the enemy. So current TC is kinda like a Kind of the Hill arena while the town is your battleground. I don't see why are devs so against some casual PvP fights in traditional battlegrounds/arenas. I'm pretty sure it should not be that much of a problem to introduce them into the game. One map, few npcs and scripts for equipment/battleground goals and we are rdy to roll.

This is very true. Also it is very frustrating that even to be able to participate in TC, you need to spend hours with boring and mindless mining & crafting grind, to have the gear and drugs necessary to at least approach the level necessary to be competitive (or be a parasite - PK), which you are very probably going to loose because you don't have the experience necessary to survive or even win - closed circle. The goal is to become the king of the hill, who amasses the loot from the dead loosers and is using tools and modification which you are not allowed to use or speak of if you want to play by the rules...

I wouldn't like the idea of throwing away TC, but it should be possible for smaller gangs to participate, and actually encourage them by being entertaining to learn and progress to one day becoming one of the top gangs, not locking them down into this closed circle...

Currently when one gets to level 21, to get the most fun out of the game is just to wait for the events like Izuals FFAs which resembless the arena model a lot...
« Last Edit: August 03, 2010, 05:05:20 am by Ned Logan »
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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 02:04:39 pm »

I think a deathmatch system would be a lot more interesting. You don't lose your gear when you die, you just get paid if you win. Maybe you could actually get XP from deathmatch kills.
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Sius

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Re: PvP concept - accident or intention?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 05:29:56 pm »

I think a deathmatch system would be a lot more interesting. You don't lose your gear when you die, you just get paid if you win. Maybe you could actually get XP from deathmatch kills.

Possibilities are endless but I think devs don't like general concept of battlegrounds in the first place. Anyway the game lacks low gear pvp and "few vs few" (1v1 / 2v2 etc..) fights. TC is under never ending control of "elite" gangs that are capable of bringing 10+ players geared with tier 3 equipment, using drugs etc. Regular solo player has zero chance to take part in it other than as a victim.

Also only organized groups prevail. Imho if there should be some arena/battleground it should be random friendly, creating friends and enemies for just 1 battle.
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