Other > Closed suggestions
GM abuse counteraction, GM activity to be made transparent
Kilgore:
Well, look at Cerberix' post and decide how easier it would be to prove that NO GM was involved in such action if there was a public log of their actions.
JovankaB:
Soon you would start suspecting that some things are not logged or there are some secret "super-gm" accounts outside log system.
Nice_Boat:
--- Quote from: JovankaB on July 18, 2010, 08:17:19 pm ---Soon you would start suspecting that some things are not logged or there are some secret "super-gm" accounts outside log system.
--- End quote ---
No, because suspicions we have against GMs are based on the following facts:
- you're recruited from the player base and you've proven to be biased on numerous occasions
- members of the GM group have been acting outside the rules on numerous occasions (it's disputable how often, but some of them are well documented)
- you generally don't allow any discussion concerning your decisions without outside intervention
As the system we propose would be fully automated, it wouldn't require any work and you couldn't mess with the logs. The devs are outside any suspicion because they've proven time and time again that they're objective and should be trusted. If they do the scripts, there's no reason to complaint.
Furthermore, the transparent, open to public system would mean that a lot of manual work would be saved because:
- the devs wouldn't have to spend the time necessary for investigating the most obvious and atrocious cases of abuse should they occur ever again;
- the public would do all the evidence gathering for them;
- threads about GM abuse wouldn't have to be moderated because there'd be a highly automated procedure outside the forums for handling such issues.
HertogJan:
I've admined a game server for about 2 years and am admininga torrent server for over 5 years now.
No way would anyone outside staff members ever have access to log files.
If you do that, you open your doors wide for cheaters and exploiters as you give them all the information needed on how to prevent detection.
All it will lead to is an endless stream of discussion about GM's and their action, wether right or wrong.
In my personal experience it's the cheaters and exploiters who are shouting the hardest about abuse.
As for the comment someone made about dictatorship:
End your internet access subscription and crawl back under the rock you came underneath from.
Servers are maintained by people who set the rules for their guests. Wether it's a server hosting a game, a forum or whatever other kind of thing.
You may in some occassions have some saying in a few of the rules, at the end of the day you have no saying in most rules. Especially not in the important ones.
That's no different here.
I have no idea what's logged as far as GMs go and what's the underlying sytem, but I think an easy system could be implemented (depending on the database system that is):
Simply log all actions by GMs which cause changes to a player character. Thus leveling, adding items, killing them, etc.
Further more, I'm pretty sure that whoever of the devs is/are responsible for the GMs, check logfiles from time to time.
If they have no time to do so, or there's reason for it to be done more regularly, they should promote the most trusted/experienced/objective GM.
Yes, a GM, as that person knows things from a player's point of view and a GMs point of view.
Not to mention (s)he mostly likely knows the GM and can therefore better assess the situation.
Players should keep in mind that GMs probably have their own private forum(s) to discuss issues, actions taken, actions to be taken, etc.
Especially if it concerns something serious.
As for thieves, bombers, caravan traps, etc. the GMs not liking them simply have to learn to life with them like the rest of us.
--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on July 18, 2010, 08:31:00 pm ---As the system we propose would be fully automated, it wouldn't require any work and you couldn't mess with the logs. The devs are outside any suspicion because they've proven time and time again that they're objective and should be trusted. If they do the scripts, there's no reason to complaint.
--- End quote ---
Sure you can automate part of the process, but the complaining, whining and discussing part is completely human and won't go away.
jan0s1k:
--- Quote from: Steve Zissou on July 18, 2010, 05:39:11 pm ---You should Fraps TC fights like Izual and post them which would give hard evidence. This is all hearsay, we don't know if you are being biased from the past due to bad run-ins with GMs, or if the GMs themselves are acting in poor taste.
I'm sure this is because of when I think rejfyl claimed Cadiliac blew up his gun for swearing, but if a GM did this I'm sure it would've been logged.
--- End quote ---
Not every player have 1TB harddrive to record all what he is doing (example I have only 8 GB to record - 5 minutes of game)
--- Quote from: JovankaB on July 18, 2010, 08:03:59 pm ---It's impossible to teleport players by GM to some world map tile. GM could summon you there in theory, but you would see his/her name on the team list.
--- End quote ---
He was teleported to empty location he leave that location and he was in this place (under glow)
--- Quote from: JovankaB on July 18, 2010, 04:27:15 pm ---I don't like points 1 and 2, especially 1 because it could give players to much info about methods and time when GMs detect cheats, exploits etc. It wouldn't be good for anyone but cheaters. Also some investigations are longer than 1 day. And I don't really think devs would like to be spammed 100 times / day with "I suspect GM of someting!" from some paranoid players, but I could be wrong... Besides some players might want discretion when talking to a GM on server, not everyone knows IRC, there can be some private info in logs/screens or info concerning other players not intended to be seen by public. At the same time it doesn't prevent at all some possible "abuses" like spying during TC for some team.
As a compromise for log access I think GMs should have access to commands logs of other GMs, so we could control each other. Right now we don't have it. Believe me or not, but I doubt any GM wants abusers and cheaters in the team (I don't think there are any in the moment, but as always, some players know better).
--- End quote ---
And one suggestion when you won't show gm's logs just allow players to look on their own logs I thing in players logs you can see what gm do with you (example teleporting etc)
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