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Questions about PvP Mechanics
Branco:
First of all let me take my hat off to the devs, for making an incredibly attractive game which manages to capture the magic of the single-player fallout while providing an extremely challenging and fun pvp environment. I feel great potential and i'd like to see this project grow (yes, i donated :P)
However, lately i get the feeling that the pvp is beyond the usual unbalance that every beta, and this game in particular is plagued with.
Im not talking about the harshness of the wasteland : Me and my friends managed to get a small faction started, purchased a base, setup a small mining operation that barely provides for our needs, but overall, we are doing ok.
Im also not talking about the big guilds running in packs which are almost impossible to overcome, considering we are only 6 or 7 combat capable mates.
I also don't care about powerbuilds or alts.
What i do care and wonder about, is how come we almost never won a fight, even with fair odds in numbers and gear? Granted we may be noobs or gimps, but lately i started thinking..
- Scouting. It's vital to be done with either a sacrificeable char or town preview, but no matter how we move, hide, or take cover, we always get jumped. Jumped as in 3 foes spawning on top of us, killing everybody before we even realise the fight has started. This has happened too many times now to be just bad luck, we NEVER caught anyone by surprise, not matter of our position. I'm fine with the fights taking a few seconds only, but it's like the enemy always knows our position, it's hard to setup a defense or an ambush when terrain and cover does not conceal us.
- Sneaking. reading these forums got me thinking that sneak is somewhat broke, but more than once i failed to spot with perception 8 someone standing at 4 hexes away from me. Needless to say, it was too late, particulary with...
- Grenades. Wtf is up with those? There is virtually no defense against plasma nades, save for BA and maybe END10. They need to be seriously nerfed, its very annoying to be killed in 4 seconds and not being able to do anything about it.
- Big gunz. I dont know exactly how powerbuilds or junkies are working because it doesn't fit my playing style, but how can a minigun hit for 120+(non-crit) at 30-35 metres? My BG-er doesnt hit for more than 50-80 at that distance, granted with regular minigun. Do they use LSW or Avenger? Is that the only answer?
- Perception. More than once i was shot way beyond my Perception 8-10 (on more than 1 char) by a miniguner. I was puzzled. Bg-ers usually have around 6 PE, right? Even so, if they had 8-10 PE they should be in my range, not outside of it. Was it lag?
- What is this autoaim exploit i keep hearing about?
Would appreciate some input, i love the toughness of the game but would hate that only some exploiters have a chance.
Kilgore:
1. What's your point? Chances are equal for everyone. There is no "maphack" thing or something like that afaik. Your bad play is your fault, dude. You need to play and practice more. Yes, this involves losing shitloads of stuff.
2. If he was standing behind you, that's right, and that's how sneak is supposed to work. Sneak is pretty much balanced right now.
3. Please stop this shit talk about "nerfing". We've had enough of it already. Plasma nades got nerfed recently, too, and now you craft 5 nades instead of 10. Still, if you see sth is overpowered, then play it: you would soon see that range of 15 hexes isn't that great and that nades are useless against combat and tesla armors. Also, due to range of 15 hexes, you can escape easily, if you weren't standing in a jacket next to the grenadier.
4. You're using weak build and regular minigun. Maybe wrong type of ammo, also. That's why you deal less damage.
5. It's packet filtering and few dudes here and there are using it. The filter makes you shoot someone in his eyes/head when you shoot him normally. Nothing was done about it throughout last 7 months, so don't expect any changes about it soon.
Conclusion: most of your losses are caused by your lack of experience in PvP and minimal knowledge about its mechanics, not by exploits or unbalance. No offense dude, everyone was a newbie in the beginning, but also there is no need to start any further shit about nerfing things and such.
Branco:
Good, thats what i needed to know :)
I dont mind dying and losing shit even though we're been having a horrible luck lately - how do you call running into what i can only describe as horrible luck - but thats how you learn, so it's ok.
The only thing i bitch and moan about are the nades - i think that combined with sneak they are impossible to defend against and it takes no skill to use them.
I can deal with the rest tho.
Thx for the input
Just to confirm tho, which are the best weapons for pvp?
SG - Sniper Rifle
BG - Avenger? Ammo AP ior JHP?
LSW - how does that work?
M60 was kind of gimp
EW - Laser Rifle
Right?
Michaelh139:
--- Quote from: Branco on May 29, 2010, 11:52:51 am ---Good, thats what i needed to know :)
I dont mind dying and losing shit even though we're been having a horrible luck lately - how do you call running into what i can only describe as horrible luck - but thats how you learn, so it's ok.
The only thing i bitch and moan about are the nades - i think that combined with sneak they are impossible to defend against and it takes no skill to use them.
I can deal with the rest tho.
Thx for the input
Just to confirm tho, which are the best weapons for pvp?
SG - Sniper Rifle
BG - Avenger? Ammo AP ior JHP?
LSW - how does that work?
M60 was kind of gimp
EW - Laser Rifle
Right?
--- End quote ---
You forgot about the P90 ( Smallguns ) Although I have used it several times myself I honestly dont see how its any better or worse than The Smg since the bursts is either about the same or worse but oh well.... And guess what? Only Big Gunners and sneakers with nades/smg are good in pvp, charisma chars, long range assault, etc... are useless in pvp.
And although I use plasma nades to make people go boom for quick cash in ncr......... I have to say that I agree, they are wayyy too powerful and there is no cheap armor that has good protection against them making it impossible to survive and gues what??? CA is useless in Plasma defense I was bombed by some noob in a jacket and couple plasma nades while I had my entire army with me ( He must've been lvl 21 but i was lvl 18 ) and was killed in thre nades which is bs.
Branco:
Oh yeah, the P90 is actually a pretty good weapon in pvp, close range that is. Definetely better than 10mm smg or even assault rifle for that matter.
Ya i noticed that snipers dont really have a chance in pvp, my 30% crit sniper is not doing great at all..although is doing alot better than my non-finesse sniper, which is why i wonder why so many people are against taking said trait.
I do not understand however the nature of crits, because it seems there are various types, such as :
- regular crit : around max weapon dmg, e.g. 30-40 for sniper rifle (chance seems to be base crit chance + (LK*10)%)
- cripple crit : nice effect like a crippled limb or knockdown - probably the best a sniper can hope for (dunno the chance)
- monster crit : huge dmg, like 150 with a puny hunting rifle. (seems to be regular crit chance as it appears in char sheet, e.g. 30% in my case)
- armor bypass : dmg seems to be inbetween monster crit and regular crit. (no idea when/how this happens)
Does anyone have more extensive info about the crit types, as described above?
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