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Poll

Do you like this suggestion?

Yes!
- 34 (36.2%)
With some changes but yes
- 22 (23.4%)
I don't know
- 7 (7.4%)
It does not sound so good
- 7 (7.4%)
No!
- 24 (25.5%)

Total Members Voted: 94


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Author Topic: Combat medic - long range healing!  (Read 27578 times)

avv

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2010, 06:13:20 pm »

With all respect it just seems dumb that medics shoot people with stimpaks. There's nothing wrong with the suggestion game balance-wise but can't we afford some class and athmosphere? Besides what's wrong with normal stimpak applying and first aid? Surely they might not fit the current pvp but maybe in future...

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2010, 04:28:59 am »

Well, so if you shoot somebody to hand by stimpack, penetrating his hand, flesh, maybe bones, nerve, it will not harm him, just because you shoot to his hand. He will not lose his gun if you hit your hand nerve? You cant damage his artery?

 For christ, if someone is applicating stimpack, he has to penetrate CAREFULY his BLOOD VESSEL with ACCURATE penetration depth. It is not easy to do this even if you are non moving and you need little experience with this. It is very hard, if you are traveling, i.e. in ambulance car, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to do on long distances.

 I.e.: if you shooting tranquillizing dart to some wild animal, you have to aim for flesh, because the active drug gets into the blood circulation from flesh.. But the effect is not instantaneous, but you have to wait for a while. And there is always possibility that you will kill that animal, or criple him.

 So i think that this idea has not nothing common with real world but but also nothing with Fallout.

This is first topic, that make me post...

This is great idea. That can really boost up my favorite class to do something usefull in pvp.

A lot of you arguing it is impossible to "shot" stimpack, despite of nobody here seems to have any medical knowledge. Let me a little bit enlighten you.
 
Do you know what to do, when you can´t hit the vein? In case of mark 4 burns, newborn or when the circulatory system completely collapses?  
Will you use central venous cathether? No, because you are risking a serious infection(especially in the post-apo world) and that needs a skillfull surgeon. Then how to get fluids to the circulatory system? Where blood comes from? Bones? Yay, rigth answer. Distribution is as quick, as you hit the vein.

So you will use intraosseous needle. That is quick, for more that 90% you can be sure, you will hit the bone(humerus, femur). So point is to hit the limb and automatic injection will do the job. From armor screens, any of it, except PA seems to have any serious plating around long bones. This kind of needle easily penetrates tissue and with few exceptions the bone and if you wish, even normal clothing such as leather.
How it looks?

Of course, we are not using it like a darts. But it is possible. Range of that hypotetical weapon can´t be wide, mainly due to ballistic trajectory and losing the velocity with distance(I´m not common with this type of (medical) physics).

And what is the stimpack? Well if you suffers a bleeding wound, you need fluids, to compensate such a loss. Today, we have cheap FR, Ringer ect. But we are already testing substituion for plasma like Hemacel. And the bleeding? You can stop via pressure gauge or(in case of stimpacks) with little help of "clever" hemostatics.

Again, if you are not a surgeon or doctor(feel free anyone with that kind of degree to correct me) and you don´t have any idea about medical stuff, stop nitpicking. Some of you there acting like you have M.D. degree from urgent medicine and that dilettantism makes me sick :-X. Especially I mean LordUsin, you are maybe a good lawyer, but this is not your field.

If you want so much realism, do you see your HP count right now? ;) And do you realize how impossible is first aid, not mention the doctor skill with bare hands? Even if you have doc. bag it is nearly nightmare to imagine that for any paramedic or doctor.

Post scriptum: Excuse my manners and english, it is not my native language. And Sius, you can take a parts to your main post if you need to argue  ;D
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 04:46:41 am by melichor »
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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2010, 07:03:51 am »

-1.

Its not star wars or other shit ;]
Well Todays pvp , today pvp ...
Should be from two last wipe ;]
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Sius

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2010, 10:04:12 am »

Thanks melichor for nice post but I believe that devs have noticed this thread and they are already decided whenever they will implement this or not. Everything relevant was said in first 6 posts and rest of this thread is just arguing about its "falloutiness" and its really only up to every one of us whenever we like it or not. But the facts remain the same from the beginning that nobody was able to bring solid arguments why not to introduce this. There were some posts about balance issue but everything like that was already explained and could very well work with stackable cooldowns. Technical side can be too easily explained. So once again its all about personal taste...

And I hope that devs did not trash idea with such a potential just because someone have thought its not fallouty enough.

Dakhanavar

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #79 on: May 26, 2010, 03:46:11 am »

Personally, I think this is a great idea and would definitely make a combat medic a much more useful class both in PvP and PvE. The implementation would definitely require a healthy dose of testing and balancing, but it would be a very welcome improvement to the combat value of a doctor/medic.

Not sure if anyone here is a fan or player of the Monster Hunter series, but gunners in that game have healing shot as well and it is VERY helpful in practice.
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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2010, 06:07:36 am »

Personally, I think this is a great idea and would definitely make a combat medic a much more useful class both in PvP and PvE.
i was trying to stay away from this topic but here i am again.

i do have one last off topic comment to make, Fallout doesnt have "classes", which makes that notion a bit flawed, you can build a character in a style, but there are no true "classes", only types of powerbuild, so in the end, one it comes right down to it, this will be a sniper/medic since the needler is a small gun, but now i'm goint to crawl back in to my hole.. cheers.

-Ulrek-
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Lordus

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2010, 11:28:08 am »


 I dont want penetrate my bones by any stimpack dart.. but..

 If people will like this idea, i hope that more Team Fortress 2 features will be implemented (slow big gunners :) ).

 Back to topic. Nobody solve the problem with armor.. Different armor, different penetration depthh needed. So at lest, if you will implement this idea, make different darts for each type of armor, so you medic will have to reload adequate type during the combat.
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Sius

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2010, 12:10:30 pm »

I dont want penetrate my bones by any stimpack dart.. but..

 If people will like this idea, i hope that more Team Fortress 2 features will be implemented (slow big gunners :) ).

 Back to topic. Nobody solve the problem with armor.. Different armor, different penetration depthh needed. So at lest, if you will implement this idea, make different darts for each type of armor, so you medic will have to reload adequate type during the combat.

Lordus. Once again game>reality. Think about it. Process it. And then tell me wtf is wrong with this idea other than you don't like it. As said bazillion times before there are way more critical errors in logic/realism than some stupid needle penetrating armors in FOnline so please stop posting "technical flaws" on this suggestion because it has none.

Thats the beautiful thing about the games. They don't have to follow logic or reality and FOnline does not follow them in shitload of cases so why did you pick this one to suddenly care about the stuff like penetrating depth of a needle vs certain armor? Just be a man and admit that you such as some other people here are looking for flaws on this suggestion because you simply don't like it. And thats kinda lame don't you think?
I'm not saying that you should like it but you certainly should not kill the idea that could improve the game with minimal work required just because of your personal opinion. So imho technical arguments on thisone are kinda irrelevant when it comes to FOnline background.

Surf

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2010, 02:41:31 pm »

Sius, it's not about bringing realism in the game as much as it gets, it's about  verisimilitude, a constant "flow" what can be done and what not into the fallout world. And sorry to say that again, but shooting needles like a badass to heal people is far from plausible...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 03:04:56 pm by Surf Solar »
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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2010, 03:01:18 pm »

Sius, it's not about bringing realism in the gay as much as it gets, it's about  verisimilitude, a constant "flow" what can be done and what not into the fallout world. And sorry to say that again, but shooting needles like a badass to heal people is far from plausible...

" +1 " ...*and crawls back in to hole*

^,..,^

-Ulrek-
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Izual

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2010, 05:51:30 pm »

Honestly, I love the idea of a needler pistol shooting stimpaks. On the other hand, I hate the idea of a medic healing when he's not right next to the person he heals. So, nope, I'm against this - even if medics are fucked up in the game.
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Jack_Fr

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2010, 06:32:45 pm »

Do you like this suggestion ?
Yes !


In (almost) every mmorpg, there are ranged healers. Those heals are made by a caster summoning a specific spell. That's logical in these games. And to bring the idea of the ranged medic in Fallout, the only one logical way is the needler pistol. That's an excellent idea I think.
I'm very surprised to see as many opposition to it. Ranged healer is a classical and essential thing in mmorpgs. I'm disappointed to discover a such reaction to this logical feature. Because it's really logical, it's unavoidable.
"Each 'bullet' is a small hypodermic designed to inject a target with its contents upon impact.", it means what it means, and it's already in game.

And, just a word about realism and things which sounds or not fallouty.
In the Fallout world, there is a corporation that everyone know. It's Vault Tec. Every fallout player would agree that Vault Tec is a fundamental element of the Fallout story plot. According to the fact that, as players, you agree with existence and sense of Vault Tec as a normal element of the scenario, what element could seem unrealistic to you ? Vault Tec has made the G.E.C.K, the Water Chip, they worked on FEV. Which one of those things is realistic ? None, I guess. But, as fallout players, you just said "that's ok, that's a plot, I like it and I accept it", so now, still as fallout players, you can't claim that you're looking for realism. Realism in Fallout is fucked from the beginning of the whole story. That's just sci-fi : you take a scientific or historic idea, you make it evolve in a future and you have a new world, an imaginary world. And there, only there, the story begins.
So, if the substance which is contained in needler cartridges is changed, that's not a problem for us, we know that's possible in this world.
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FischiPiSti

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2010, 10:56:26 pm »

" +1 " ...*and crawls back in to hole*

^,..,^

-Ulrek-
"-1" ... *floods the hole with FEV, then: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiTCuw4_Mi0&feature=related*
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DrapiChrust

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2010, 02:50:19 pm »

Honestly, I love the idea of a needler pistol shooting stimpaks. On the other hand, I hate the idea of a medic healing when he's not right next to the person he heals. (..)

Exactly
Maybe such 'shooted stimpacks' (only normal stimpacks, injecting drugs this way would REALLY be abused) could have only a certain chance to work, like 40 or 30%? Then they wouldn't be really useful in pvp, but still worth a try from time to time (in this case I just think aloud)

---
Somebody mentioned injected poisons here. THAT is a great idea, not only to widen the small guns pvp usefullness form sniper rifle only, but also as a nice anti-powerbuild tool  :D
Why? Because some kinds of poison shouldn't only do some ridiculously small damage, they can also lower stats for a while (if anyone ever tried Fallout pencil & paper, there is a very nice poison chart out there). Imagine that one can make some needler darts that lower stats for an hour, strenght for example (but not only strenght) A target should have some save throw against that poison (10k, endurance - 1?), but when shot and fail the save throw, a char would loose i.e. 1 strenght, 1 agility, 1 endurance (max -2 for two doses, as it is with any drugs).
That wouldn't hurt average chars too much, but powerbuilds would be screwed. Why? 'Cos most of contemporary powerbuilds are made so they work only when high on tons of drugs, when their stats are maxed out to the limit of what is possible. Even -1 to strenght would be a great pain for such char, as he couldn't use his weapon efficiently for about an hour (most of them meet the weapon strenght requirements when on 2xbuffout). Ordinary 'not crackheads' chars on the opposite, wouldn't find such poison too painfull, as 1 buffout would be enough to surpass the poison penalty.

Nowadays, even the owners of pvp drug powerbuilds moan about those chars, but still use them as they are simply the most efficient ATM. So maybe make them not that efficient? Forcing a certain flexibility when distributing stat points would make the pvp world less 'powerbuilded'. I think that after a while most people will be happy about it.

(Yeah, I know - I wandered a bit off-topic here)
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kraskish

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Re: Combat medic - long range healing!
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2010, 09:04:08 pm »

Well I see YES options are prevailing. Anyway, this is a good idea, and Ulrek said the fallout is not about classes, well it is. There are different types and should be equally strong/helpful for the faction/world. Im strongly for making clear divisions between players as it will help/improve combat/gameplay as it is now making the battlefield more varied, leading to new tactics and so on
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