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[Roachor]

Agreed last wipe my hth char could attack times per turn, but due to ap regen syopping during a punch animation i'd get about 2.5 punches per 5 seconds instead of the 6 i was supposed to have.

[Lordus]

You really dont get my point and dont even try.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE. THIS IS A BUG.

If a weapon has high DPS, lower it by increasing AP cost, or lower it by damage. THATS balancing.

 This is not bug. First era (in august 09) this AP regeneration during movement and shooting was already here. But devs then turn this ability of, because fights were quick. (off topic, they were longer than now, but because players created they chars more similar to their Fallout 1/2 ideal, now they created pupre power builds).

 But you lack of global view. It does not matter how you called it (bug, measure, purpose...). If you allow the AP regeneration, fights will be quicker. Thats against that most of us wants (Equip char, enter the are, die in 10 sec and wait 5 minutes to be ready over the city).

 And, of couse, DONT SHOUT ON ME, even if you are wrong or not.

[Roachor]

Actually it is a bug, animations shouldn't pause ap regen as they are purely a cosmetic function. This also penalizes actions with long animations (like punching, flamer) while helping ones with short animations such as single shots.

[Sius]

Actually it is a bug, animations shouldn't pause ap regen as they are purely a cosmetic function. This also penalizes actions with long animations (like punching, flamer) while helping ones with short animations such as single shots.

Thats definitely something unwanted. It could serve as another atribute how to balance stuff f.e. punching could use fast animation while minigun burst takes longer to execute and so on. But considering insane amount of work needed its easier just to allow APs to regenerate no matter what animation is being played and balance stuff through other means.

[Lordus]

Actually it is a bug, animations shouldn't pause ap regen as they are purely a cosmetic function. This also penalizes actions with long animations (like punching, flamer) while helping ones with short animations such as single shots.

 It does not matter how you called it (bug, measure, purpose...). If you allow the AP regeneration, fights will be quicker.  Because biggunners will able to burst in 8 seconds double time than now. So you want this?

[Roachor]

Look pvp balancing aside this is a bug. You can't just ignore bugs because it will change the nature of combat, you need to fix it and the combat system simultaneously. AP regeneration won't change, it'll just affect all weapon types equally which it should. Your claims this will help big gunners isn't based on anything.

[Lordus]

Look pvp balancing aside this is a bug. You can't just ignore bugs because it will change the nature of combat, you need to fix it and the combat system simultaneously. AP regeneration won't change, it'll just affect all weapon types equally which it should. Your claims this will help big gunners isn't based on anything.

  I have to repeat, every change has its own effect. It does not depends, if it is called bug solution or whatever.

  Because animation of bursting minugunners is longer than smg burst, the smg or assault rifle owner has at least quite bigger chance to survie. If you will disable this effect, their chance will be smaller. This is fact.

  So, if you want to make a chance, think globaly, or you will fall into the swamp more deeply.

 
 

[Crazy]

  I have to repeat, every change has its own effect. It does not depends, if it is called bug solution or whatever.

  Because animation of bursting minugunners is longer than smg burst, the smg or assault rifle owner has at least quite bigger chance to survie. If you will disable this effect, their chance will be smaller. This is fact.

  So, if you want to make a chance, think globaly, or you will fall into the swamp more deeply.

 

Well it's not the animations which should balance this (smgVSminigun), it's the AP cost. And the AP cost is already here and balanced. So the animation time is an additional thing and it unbalance this. So it should be changed.

[Sius]

Look pvp balancing aside this is a bug. You can't just ignore bugs because it will change the nature of combat, you need to fix it and the combat system simultaneously. AP regeneration won't change, it'll just affect all weapon types equally which it should. Your claims this will help big gunners isn't based on anything.

Actually it could help someone but I don't know who that might be. F.e. kicking takes shitload of time to execute that animation. With AP regen during animation I could get like +0.7 AP regenerated during animation play time. Anyway the difference between each animations such as throwing/shooting/bursting/using is really small and I doubt that it would make any serious balance issues. And as for the "already too fast combats" argument its nothing that should prevent devs from repairing this bug.
Imho combat should take longer but equally to that APs or actions we can do in combat should increase. Right now some of you don't want APs to regenerate. But if we make AP regen slower then all we can do in fight is literary stand next to each other and interrupt the silence with shooting once in a while. Its the same thing we are experiencing now, it just happens faster. Combat should be longer in matter of how we can attack/defend/react on ours opponents actions and not how much time does it take. Right now we can either run or shoot. And thats the thing that should change and boosting AP regen could only help making things more dynamic.

[Roachor]

If anything AP for shooting BG should be increased.

[Lordus]

If anything AP for shooting BG should be increased.

 Ahahahahaha.. I agree with you, but:

  With 3 perks, +1 free perk (fast shot trait), you need to double its required AP to make it comparable with assault riffles and SMG, but NOBODY from BG users wants to listen this.

 So this current "bug" or whatever is hidden, small, advantage for non BG PVP build and you will erase it, but you will not enforce the raising of AP needed for BG burst.

 Also, i think that the possibility of "make AP reg. during movement, fight, for SMG, SG, HtH, melee.." is more bigger, than to raise AP for bigguners.

[FischiPiSti]

Lordus look...If you want to call this anything, than this is a hidden SG buff. Not a hidden BG nerf, because it has an effect on every single action in the game. Even on snipers. Throwing grenades. Throwing knives. Switching weapons. Healing. etc etc etc. Im standing in my base making rotgut, wood is in one of my hands, fruit is in the other. And i have constant zero AP. Its just not right. If anyone isnt thinking globaly, its you because you think this is the only advantage SG has over BG. Game needs balance sure. But you just cannot take BUGS into account when you try to balance. Bugs-need-fixing. Simple as that. If the bug is gone, and you have an intended enviroment, you can start testing, giving feedback, devs balance.

Fast ending fight are indeed a problem, i agree on that, but AP regen isnt the problem. It would actually be better to have 0 AP out of combat in RT, and when somebody initiates an attack and combat opens up, AP would start to generate. This way, no minigunner could burst 3 times in a row. They would have the first attack however, because bursting costs less AP. But thats ok right? Low AP action beeing faster then high AP action. This system would be a kind of "RT sequence".
The other and main problem however is that weapons are powerfull, players have low hp. No RPG out there features death in 1-3 hits. Sure this is realistic, but has a serious negative impact on gameplay. Its just not satisfying to kill with no effort, and its even worse ofc if you die with 0 chance to defend yourself.
How this could be improved? Players should have 2x hp as default. In TB, the health would be halved during combat. But this is offtopic

[Lordus]

Lordus look...If you want to call this anything, than this is a hidden SG buff. Not a hidden BG nerf, because it has an effect on every single action in the game. Even on snipers. Throwing grenades. Throwing knives. Switching weapons. Healing. etc etc etc. Im standing in my base making rotgut, wood is in one of my hands, fruit is in the other. And i have constant zero AP. Its just not right. If anyone isnt thinking globaly, its you because you think this is the only advantage SG has over BG. Game needs balance sure. But you just cannot take BUGS into account when you try to balance. Bugs-need-fixing. Simple as that. If the bug is gone, and you have an intended enviroment, you can start testing, giving feedback, devs balance.

 If you fix this, you will be unable to add another balance feauture, which will nerf, limit, or whatever BG (look to other threads, i am kind of heretic, because i am telling simple fact, that this kind of guns kills the variety of weapons and pvp styles). So i think, that this is very good option how to make more usabable PvP weapons from dozens of small guns existing in the game (http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Small_Guns). Only SG usable for PvP is Sniper riffle. Look at the list.. It is sad, isnt it?

 But i have to repeat, in first era, your AP was regenerated during your actions, and devs then decided to turn this ability off. So IMO this is not the bug, but it is sideeffect of unbalance because of animations lenght. But this problem is here, because Fallout is naturaly single player turnbased game and nobody expect that this will be a problem in future (10 years after the original Falout was created).

 So this is, IMO, not problem of solving the bug, but problem of balance.

[Roachor]

Lordus he is right, as for sniper rifle being the only option hunting rifles and p90c are both great weapons for pvp. Balance shouldn't rely on bugs but a well thought out system.

[Lordus]

Lordus he is right, as for sniper rifle being the only option hunting rifles and p90c are both great weapons for pvp. Balance shouldn't rely on bugs but a well thought out system.

 Hunting riffle is here, because instakills. But if you want to join real PvP, you need to take your best stuff. And hunting is not the kind of best stuff.
 P90 .. ok, tell me, who will win if player with avenger and p90 will meet in city on cca 15-20 hex??? So where is the balance here.