Other > Suggestions

Alternative Solution to Guards in "Guarded" Towns

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Roachor:
This would never work because
A) Guarding a town is boring and there is only the chance to lose shit
B) It would get the shit exploited out of it by gangs
C) People aren't online 24/7, nor are they able to spot thieves or bombers.
D) They'd probably get owned worse by gangs than NPC guards do, you can't compete with AI for speed and even VC has had it's staff wiped out by players. Just look at how many guards had to be added with insane health just to have semi-peace in NCR.

Flick:
It will don't work, the gangs itself don't protect really a city, they claim it, then go away or stay out and come in when some loot or enemy appear.

RavenousRat:
The only way how NCR Police Department can work is:
Members of this faction can see (thief), (dangerous), (blocker) tags. Attacking members of this faction will cause attackers to lose NCR reputation, hehehehehehe, khm.
If a member of police faction attacking protected player at NCR, he'll lose x5 more reputation with NCR.

JustGreat:
Yeah maybe something like that can work RavenousRat.

Cokomantis:
this can be fun but it may need some changes. rather than "i killed him first and asked questions later." behaviour, how'bout...

tags: there should be different types of tags. much (very much! =)) like ultima online.

innocent (blue)
permagray (blue)
aggressor (gray)
criminal (gray)
vilified! (red)

scenarios:
a) i'm inocent (blue). i shoot you (innocent (blue)) in the face. you don't die. i lose "some" amount of city karma (ncr karma etc.). i'm now criminal (gray) all players (pc guard or regular citizen) can attack me. and the npc guards attack me too.

b) i'm innocent (blue). i shoot you (innocent (blue)) in the face. you die. i loose "huge" amounts of city karma (ncr karma etc.). and lose "some" amount of other guarded cities karmas. i'm criminal (gray) again. all players (pc guard and regular citizen) can attack me. and the npc guards attack me too.

c) when i lose "enough" amount of city karma (ncr karma etc.) i'm vilified (red) when i'm in that town and vilified (red) in encounters with that town's guards., rangers etc. all players (pc guard or regular citizens) can attack me freely when i'm in that town. and the npc guards (in both city and encounter) attack me too.

d) i'm innocent (blue). i try to steal from you (innocent (blue)). and fail, and i'm detected. i lose "some" amount of city karma (ncr karma etc.) i'm now criminal (gray). all players (pc guard or regular citizen) can attack me. and the npc guards attack me too.

e) i'm innocent (blue). i try to steal from you (innocent (blue)). and succeed, but i'm detected. i lose "some" amount of city karma (ncr karma etc.) i'm now criminal (gray). all players (pc guard or regular citizen) can attack me. and the npc guards attack me too.

f) i'm innocent (blue). i try to steal from you (innocent (blue)). and succeed, and i'm not detected. i don't lose any karma. i'm still blue, but i'm permagray. all players (pc guard or regular citizens) can attack me. but the npc guards won't. now this is where it gets tricky.

f1) i'm permagray (blue). all players (pc guard or regular citizens) can attack me. but they become aggressor (gray) to me (only to me). i can retaliate freely without being interfered by the npc guards. so let's assume i'm permagray (blue) and you (innocent (blue) attack me. i attack you. now i'm aggressor (gray) to you. and a third person sees 2 blue people attacking eachother. since the npc guards won't interfere, try to be a hero at your own risk!

f2) i'm permagray (blue). you're innocent (blue). you kill me. you gain "some" amount of city karma.

f3) i'm permagray (blue). you're innocent (blue). i kill you. i lose "huge" amounts of city karma, and lose "some" amounts of other guarded cities karmas.

g) i'm criminal (gray). you (blue (innocent)) attack me. you're now agressor (gray) to me. i can attack you. the guards won't interfere. but they're already attacking me becouse i was criminal (gray) in the first place. and i know i probably wouldn't mind if the game would let me attack you since i'm a lawless criminal. but that's the system.

h) i'm innocent (blue). you're any color. i try to steal from you. the results are the same as d, e, f regarding the outcome of the theft attempt.

i) when a thief succesfully steals an item in a guarded city and dies in x minutes in that city, the stolen items return to the owner automaticly. (whether or not the thief is detected.)

j) permagray (blue) lasts until death. criminal (blue) lasts for x minutes.

so it's pretty simple actually. you think you can attack someone? (blue or gray) you can. but you'll become agressor (gray) to them, regardless of their color. (reds stay red even if they're agressor to someone btw) and they can attack back. and if you're wrong about one's being permagray and attack them, well the guards whack you becouse you become criminal (gray).

this was the system in ultima online's the second age era. (i've made a few minor changes) i'm sure many people will disagree with this, since this is fallout and not ultima online. and they may be perfectly right. but this system makes a lot of sense to me. (makes more sense than guards doing absolutely nothing to thieves.)

my minor changes:
1) in uo thieves lose karma even if they're not detected. i see karma as "what people think of you." so if you're not detected, noone can say you're a bad guy. and uo doesn't have ciy karmas, it has only one karma. but i think losing and gaining city karmas is better, since it won't affect important things like perks. i'm not really sure if it should or shouldn't affect major karma by the way.

2) and players get murder counts too, for killing innocent players. there are 2 kinds of murder counts. short term and long term. if you have more than 5 short term murder counts you're red and you lose a certain percantage of skills when you die (when you resurrect actually. so it's possible to see some red ghosts waiting for short time MCs to be 0). short time murders decrease by 1 per 5 hours of online time. long term counts decrease by 1 per 40 hours of online time. you get 1 short and 1 long term murder count if you kill an innocent. since this thing has statloss which i'm fanatically against, and it might be redundant to add murder count stuff, i converted this to losing karma in all guarded cities.

3) uo has another type of grayness. it's called karma gray. when you have low karma you're gray. the game acts exactly as if you're permagray (blue), npc guards don't attack you unless you attack an innocent (blue) and other players can attack you. i think this would make a hard game even harder. since you're karma gray until, well, you gain enough karma. it might prove a bit difficult when most of the power playing types attacks you on sight.

4) uo has another type of redness. it's called karma red. when you have very low karma you're red. there's no statloss if you don't have 5 short term murder counts. npc guards whack you on sight. (not positive on this) and players can attack you. since i converted murder count system to city karma system, we don't need another karma based redness.

possible problems: (if you think of another possible problems, please let me know.)
when a person is vilified in a town, i think there's no way that he'll ever be accepted again in this system. maybe "some sort of quest to prove your good intentions." might do the trick.

now let's get to pc guard business! i think the captain of the guards should give all the recruits a standard gun, a standard armor, and a standard amount of ammo, maybe 2 stimpacks too. this should be initial and initial only. (and no "i leave now. i sign up tomorrow. gimme me stuff!" business!) then pay them some cash weekly. that's it. no special "you can attack everyone becouse a higher being lets you." power. just an initial payment in supplies, and a salary. and the satisfying feeling of doing the right thing. because doing good is its own reward.

i'd love to join no mater the system by the way. make this happen. =)

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