Other > General Game Discussion
PvP constitution proposal vote
avv:
To allow differend gun roles a new tactical feature could be implemented. It could be sequence which already exists in our SPECIAl. It just hasn't had any use in RT.
So what it means is how fast you can perform an action with certain type of weapon and how fast your character reacts.
For every character the sequence could be around the same, it couldn't be increased greatly with any build. What affected sequence most would be what gun you're using. Pistols gave great bonus to sequence, big guns and snipers could give no plus at all, or even reduce sequence. When you have great sequence your actions with your active item will be performed very quickly. With low sequence there will be a delay because it takes time to turn and aim your gun. With good sequence you would get the advantage of getting to shoot first and switch positions faster to shoot from another direction.
Sequence could be affected by your movement. If you're running, you get very low sequence because you're not prepared to do anything. When you stop moving, your sequence would slowly return to normal depending on your gun. Pistols would regenerate sequence faster. If you're walking, you get again better sequence and while standing still you get the best sequence. We could have a sequence bar to show how fast you will act.
To make big gunners get the first shot even sometimes, we could have third sequence affecting feature: aiming direction. You could take a direction, press certain shortcut and get a field deployed in front of you.
Just like here.
When someone steps on that field, you get the first shot automatically because the person is right on your sights. This is an important principle in a modern infantry warfare.
To make sequence work correctly, we would have to have autoshoot feature that automatically targets and shoots enemies. Right now pvp is slightly dependent on player's reflexes and that's just not the right way in tactical games.
Johnny Nuclear:
about tactics, good thing would be AC bonuses when u are covering yourself, biggest AC bonus could be if you were in building near window. smaller bonus if you were near corner of building, or behind barrel and smallest bonus if you were near tree or street lamp.
these bonuses would be huge for example if you were shooting from window you could have 60 or more AC bonus, because its really hard to hit you if you are shooting from window cover
of course these AC bonuses would depend on weight of weapon you are holding
avv:
--- Quote from: Johnny Nuclear on May 08, 2010, 04:40:49 pm ---about tactics, good thing would be AC bonuses when u are covering yourself, biggest AC bonus could be if you were in building near window. smaller bonus if you were near corner of building, or behind barrel and smallest bonus if you were near tree or street lamp.
these bonuses would be huge for example if you were shooting from window you could have 60 or more AC bonus, because its really hard to hit you if you are shooting from window cover
of course these AC bonuses would depend on weight of weapon you are holding
--- End quote ---
Correct. And trying to flank an enemy who is in good positions would be a key element in pvp.
Lordus:
--- Quote from: Johnny Nuclear on May 07, 2010, 09:36:02 pm ---AP ammo with penetrate perk = DT/5 if you didnt know
so you really think that shotgun should be stronger than minigun in 1 hex fight ? ;D
--- End quote ---
1) there will exist ammo with AP modifier or more DMG modifier in the same caliber.. But it has to be balanced.
2) shotgun should have maybe the same damage on 1-5 hexes like minigun, but minugun should have ability to be powerfull to quite longer distances.
Shotgun should have knockback perk, but i dont know, if this gun perk is usefull (in comparsion with knockdown...)
--- Quote from: Johnny Nuclear on May 08, 2010, 10:58:45 am ---is this RL or fallout ?, i belive that in 2077 were advanceed light , hard set and tough alloys and high technologies which allowed to make portable machine guns and miniguns, we are still in fallout.
--- End quote ---
Johnny, please, look carefuly to the single player progress graph. Fallout was singleplayer one and all weapons and armors and skills were created for this purpose. More advance in game, more powerfull weapons. But this current system leads to situatiom, where you have only 2 reasonable PvP classes: sniper and biggunner burster, because they are on the top of the progress graph line. So this is the problem.
I must repeat, i dont like instakills too much, yes, they should be ingame, but sniper should show his PLAYERS (not avatar) skill: sniper will do damage only at high distances, so he must hold distance, insta kill should aim only to eyes, with penalty of miss if your target will more in direction,...
But BGunners have to be changed too. If not, only solution if we want to balance is to make same damages for assault riffles. Then ok, your BG will be the same, but you will cry more.
In my point of view, there should exist 2 very same type of weapons, one in SG class, one in BG class. AK47 for SG (with 7,62 ammo), and LSW for BG (7,62 ammo). They will use the same ammo, so their damage will be different only by number of bursted bullets. Then we can add ability to shoot AK47 single aimed shot, and the line of fire will be quite longer and direct in opposite of LSW (no chance of aim single shots, less longer and direct line, quite bigger bursts).
But in my point of veiw, miniguns have to be reduced by something.. my ideas.
1) 5mm ammo will be less efective than 7,62, so it wil not have same penetration effect nad will do less damage, BUT you will have to make a choice AP or JHP. Also i suggested 2 different types of armors, so as a biggunner, you will have to make a choice of adequate ammo in the battle (not before).
2) I think that with minigun in active slot, you should not run.. If you want to run, you can choose the LSW, or take both or take any SG for defense. I know that you will protest, but try to understand my arguments.
Because of minugun will have quite shorter distance than other guns, you dont need to spend to many points there like other builds need to. So you will be able to spend some points into SG ... not many for sniper riffles or assault riffles weapons, but enough for average SMG or shotgun.. This will allow you to defend yourself until you will deploy minigun. Dont forget, that you will still have choice to take LSW.
3) Because this is very big reduction for miniguns, i think they need have some advantage too (if you dont think that best damage across all weapons until 15-20 hex is not enough). I suggest, that magazines for miniguns class should be bigger by 2-3 times, and, you will be able to load it with 2 kind of ammo together: AP and JHP. Point is, that you will be able to realtime reload by some key shortcut (or at least by right click on icon) (no AP need to change your ammo type). This will give you HUGE advantage on short distances. The reload time of full magazine should be very long (i.e.8 AP), but because you will have 2-3x times more ammo, it wont limit you to much.
4) If players and devs will be against the point of 2 (unable to run with minigun in active slot), THERE must exist something to stop this kind of weapons, because they will be (they are) overal more powerfull than other weapons.
Miniguns are not basic machine guns.. In machine gun, there is not any electronic. But in minigun, you need power generator to rotate the barrels, to load every barrel, etc. etc. So countermeasure will be EMP grenade. EMP grenade should have then disable weapon for short time (at least 15-30 second), so you will be unable to use it. Maybe special EMP shell for rocket launcher will be better too because no many grenadiers will survive the meeting with minigunner.
--- Quote from: avv on May 08, 2010, 03:33:59 pm ---
Sequence:
--- End quote ---
I like the idea of implementation, but i dont like the limitation in your movement (your movement will be slower).
So, my idea: until your sequence will be normal, your weapon skill will be lower. So if you want to sniper someone, you will have to wait some time (3-5 seconds), until your sequence will be at your normal position. Until this, your skill will raise from cca 50 percent slowly (3-5 sec) to the 95 percent.
SMG, shotguns, pistols will have less requirement for sequence, assault riffles bigger, snipers and BG more..
avv:
Hololasima I don't deny that I might not have as much pvp experience as you do, but I do know that I have much pvp experience with balanced build (skillpoints and perks invested in other than pvp related ones). In these forums it's clearly visible that some people don't have a clue what's it like to pvp with other than powerbuilds.
--- Quote from: Lordus ---I like the idea of implementation, but i dont like the limitation in your movement (your movement will be slower).
--- End quote ---
By movement you mean the delays caused by low sequence or movement (running, walking) increasing ? Because we can't get stances (Lexx said it), differend movement could be made a strategic element. We already have running, walking and standing after all, not using them would be waste of material and everyone would just run and never walk.
--- Quote from: Lordus --- So, my idea: until your sequence will be normal, your weapon skill will be lower. So if you want to sniper someone, you will have to wait some time (3-5 seconds), until your sequence will be at your normal position. Until this, your skill will raise from cca 50 percent slowly (3-5 sec) to the 95 percent.
SMG, shotguns, pistols will have less requirement for sequence, assault riffles bigger, snipers and BG more..
--- End quote ---
So basically it's the accuracy that's reduced. It could work this way too. Yeh, it's probably better that way than not being able to shoot at all. It would be just annoying having to cope with constant delays.
So did I get this straight: a dude with smg decides to shoot a dude from close range. When the player lays his sight on the enemy, the accuracy number starts to raise. It rises depending on the gun and distance. Because the dude is holding an smg, the accuracy rises to 95% very quickly. This would be very good feature if it could be implemented. It would really make the guns good in differend roles.
Another scenario: a sniper is stalking his victim from long range. He sees a big gunner camping a clearing. He lays his sight on the dude and accuracy starts to climb again. It would take few seconds to reach maximum accuracy and then the sniper would choose to fire. He could fire at any time but with less accuracy.
Was this what you had in mind?
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