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Future pvp theme

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avv:

--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 12:24:42 AM ---WHAT? Do you have some kind of need to always intentionally understand peoples typings wrong? If you are smart enuff you know what I ment.

Fallout is fallout becouse it is based on set of rules that you don't seem to have any knowledge of.
--- End quote ---

Well then, explain those rules. Take your time, the more thoroughly we can discuss them, the easier we find understanding.



--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 12:24:42 AM ---About the class system. Why do you want it? What will it do better than this system we already have? Fallen earth already has classless system and it has a monthly fee. Works very well and doesn't restrict players.
--- End quote ---

Because if done right, this class system might just fix pvp so that player's don't need to make powerbuilds and alts to participate. In fallen earth everyone is a fighter, there's no other roles to play.



--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 01:03:09 AM ---Basicly I think you are viewing the game from unrealistic point of view. You can always dream of things happening. But as I have said before: You need to work with the engine that is already there and try to make it work. Altering the whole engine will take moths even years. It might be fun to imagine everything cool. But sorry to break your bubble. Not gonna happen.
--- End quote ---

Hey dude, with that attitude nothing is going to happen. I bet that if there ever was a time when there was no crafting profesions and someone suggested it, certain people just went "nono that's unfalloutish, fallout didnt have profesions, never going to happen."
Besides, taking clear vision for future and slowly developing the game that way is much more effective than trying to find quick fixes for things. For example we've gone back and forth with exping, crit tables and worldmap travelling speed. That's not progress, it's just either testing things and getting feedback or lack of planning. Pvp needs a goal towards which to aim.
For example guarded mines and npc town reputations are sign that devs are actually planning something and slowly implementing features.


--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 01:03:09 AM ---The things that would make pvp hell of a lot more interesting are, more cover and stances. Thats all we need. Now basically its all about two guys trying to race crit each other as stated somewhere in above posts. The whole combat is build around winning the sequence roll.
--- End quote ---

Only stances wouldn't fix it. It would be just balanced between powerbuilds.

Sius:
First of all if you don't agree with ideas posted here then don't take them into personal level.
If they look stupid from your point of view don't try to make them look stupid to everyone else. Because using wow/diablo or unfallouty stuff like "arguments" is just... Well try to see it from this perspective: FOnline is not Fallout as we know him. Same with Fallout Tactics or Fallout 3. FOnline is completely different game that is based on something we loved and admired for ages, but it takes it into whole new level. How do you think FT would end up if it did not introduced new "unfallouty" stuff? But it did and it worked really good all together and FOnline has to take same path. It would be naive to think that you can take Fallout 2, overhaul it into MMORPG and think that it will work out just as it is. There are tons of aspects that simply does not exist in single player gaming and therefore Fallout 2 works as SP but taken to MP it fails hard. Starting with character development in 7 steps and ending with terrible game economics there are things devs have to handle in MMO. And since there are known means how to handle them, then why not to take an example from them? You said that we have to work with engine and not try to change it since it may take months. Yeah but how long will it take to create own rules and stuff that will work in MMO environment and still follow original Fallout mechanics without any additions?  ::)

Back to topic:  Elmehdi that abilities stuff I suggested before does not count on an actual class choice. Instead you would develop into some "class" as you play. Also as it was stated before there are classes already and all that passive/active abilities stuff would be just an extension to current system with familiar mechanics we already have for perks/skillpoints.

iicca:

--- Quote from: Sius on April 18, 2010, 10:22:25 AM --- FOnline is not Fallout as we know him. Same with Fallout Tactics or Fallout 3.

--- End quote ---
Tactics is a very falloutish tactic game, fallout 3 is a very falloutish rpgfps.

Tactics I can't stand becouse it just blows compared to JA2, fallout 3 was awesome until I realized that devs had taken the short path on character development. Mechanic was there but it was plain too simple and you could actually make a character that can do everything. So they kinda screwed it up.


--- Quote from: avv on April 18, 2010, 10:09:01 AM ---Well then, explain those rules. Take your time, the more thoroughly we can discuss them, the easier we find understanding.

--- End quote ---
Oh I see, you are not aware of them. Read fallout bible and then fallout pen n paper rpg rules set. Take your time. Becouse If you don't I can't take anything seriously you are saying. And also it gives your opinions more value to me.

--- Quote from: avv on April 18, 2010, 10:09:01 AM --- In fallen earth everyone is a fighter, there's no other roles to play.

--- End quote ---
That is what you are going to get in a system where you don't need to create alts. People are crafters but they decide them selves how heavy in crafting they want to be or how heavy in support they want to be. In fonline everyone is a fighter also, just depends on the palyer choises how heavy in fighting they want to be.

To actually make things balanced there should be a total remake on the action point system. It's too simple. The system should be 100actionpoints system like in ja2 1.13. Then you could have variety in guns rate of fire, reload times, aiming times etc. you name it. If some one doesn't know how it works. Basically every character has 100 action points. The amount of aps every action takes depends on your stats. Guy with high agility takes less actionpoints to move per hex than someone with low agility. Someone with high dexterity takes less time to aim with his weapon than some one with low dex. List goes on.  But that is Jagged Alliance, I don't want fallout to be like that. Instead:

Classes are not the solution. about agility. It effects too many things. There should be another stat for gunhandling that effects on actionpoints used in firing. Dexterity or something similiar. This way you would need to concentrate in a character who moves fast and acts as scout or, something that can fire with his weapon many times(restricted on weapons rate of fire), OR a balance between these. This breaks up the powerbuilding stuff and makes you choose a "class", how you want to play your character. Best of all it's Falloutish :)

Basically we just need another special to put points in (and full overhaul on the skill system, what specials affect what skills etc). If you don't believe me, do the math.

classes are just restricting and ridiculous. You dont choose a class in real life. What I like about fallout is that it has an immersion. Me walking in wasteland meeting new people and killing new people. More gamey you want to make, less immersion it will have.

Solar:
I think its a pretty safe bet we will never have classes.

SPECIAL is pretty flexible, if anythings needed its tweeks rather than total redesign, imo.

avv:

--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 11:43:59 AM ---Tactics is a very falloutish tactic game, fallout 3 is a very falloutish rpgfps.
--- End quote ---

In tactics everyone was fighter, not an armor crafter or trader. Players might had some side abilities like doctor and driver but in the end, everyone was a figher because there was nothing else to do than fight.
Fallout 3 was singleplayer so it's out of the question aswell.


--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 11:43:59 AM ---Oh I see, you are not aware of them. Read fallout bible and then fallout pen n paper rpg rules set. Take your time. Becouse If you don't I can't take anything seriously you are saying.
--- End quote ---

I've actually read fallout bibble, it's just fallout background story and has nothing to do with game mechanics. And fallout pen&paper didn't have profesions like armor crafter which demanded big skillpoint investments. Besides, where is it even stated that fonline must be faithful to some old role play game? What if someone brought up a superb idea that wasn't faithful to fallout, should we just scrap it because of that?

Besides, you represented your Jagged Allience related idea below, which surely is unfalloutish in every way. So what you do is to draw your "unfalloutish" card when it suits you.


--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 11:43:59 AM ---That is what you are going to get in a system where you don't need to create alts. People are crafters but they decide them selves how heavy in crafting they want to be or how heavy in support they want to be. In fonline everyone is a fighter also, just depends on the palyer choises how heavy in fighting they want to be.
--- End quote ---

If you don't decide to go full heavy towards pvp, you'll find yourself far behind.


--- Quote from: iicca on April 18, 2010, 11:43:59 AM ---To actually make things balanced there should be a total remake on the action point system. It's too simple. The system should be 100actionpoints system like in ja2 1.13. Then you could have variety in guns rate of fire, reload times, aiming times etc. you name it. If some one doesn't know how it works. Basically every character has 100 action points. The amount of aps every action takes depends on your stats. Guy with high agility takes less actionpoints to move per hex than someone with low agility. Someone with high dexterity takes less time to aim with his weapon than some one with low dex. List goes on.

Classes are not the solution. about agility. It effects too many things. There should be another stat for gunhandling that effects on actionpoints used in firing. Dexterity or something similiar. This way you would need to concentrate in a character who moves fast and acts as scout or, something that can fire with his weapon many times(restricted on weapons rate of fire), OR a balance between these.

Basically we just need another special to put points in (and full overhaul on the skill system, what specials affect what skills etc). If you don't believe me, do the math.
--- End quote ---

Doesn't sound too bad honestly. So what you're saying is that shooting big guns cost less AP if you got lots of str. Striking with knife or shooting with pistol costs less if you got lots of AGI?


--- Quote from: Solar on April 18, 2010, 12:08:49 PM ---I think its a pretty safe bet we will never have classes.

SPECIAL is pretty flexible, if anythings needed its tweaks rather than total redesign, imo.

--- End quote ---

That's why I'm more towards adding more perks and allowing player to have more perk slots and kind of forcing them to pick combat perks and luxury perks so that nobody can create a powerbuild capable of doing only one thing very well.

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