Other > General Game Discussion
(report) shotguns in pvp-useless
vedaras:
--- Quote from: Surf Solar on June 12, 2010, 11:06:12 PM ---Vedaras, you used Perks for it. Solar didn't use any Perks.
Your BRoF obviously raises the damage of your avenger, because it shoots more bullets per burst.
--- End quote ---
so we are talking about guns usefulness in battle not in imaginary playground where 2 players will fight with awareness and master salesman... These are numbers from players in battle, these are numbers showing the real truth.
P.s look at topic. Shotguns in pvp are useless, so yeah i made pvp calculations.
Solar:
--- Quote from: Surf Solar on June 12, 2010, 11:06:12 PM ---Vedaras, you used Perks for it. Solar didn't use any Perks.
Your BRoF obviously raises the damage of your avenger, because it shoots more bullets per burst.
--- End quote ---
As has been stated several times. It'd also be a good idea to ignore drugs too. I can only say so many times that we shall consider only the weapon itself since the other things are different topics for balance (as in the are nowhere near balanced).
--- Quote from: Michaelh139 on June 12, 2010, 11:02:04 PM ---*Drugs self to where 50% bodily fluid is a mix of jet, Psycho, and all the other drugs you can imagine*
How about now?
...no, not quite.
--- End quote ---
Not too bad when its an Armour By Pass. The nice healthy 3/1 damage modifier can do a nice job in this situation.
Surf:
--- Quote from: vedaras on June 12, 2010, 11:09:53 PM ---so we are talking about guns usefulness in battle not in imaginary playground where 2 players will fight with awareness and master salesman... These are numbers from players in battle, these are numbers showing the real truth.
--- End quote ---
Solar already said the weapons damage (Jackhammer) is fine. It's that there are specific perks available for Snipers and Biggunners, that's why they are so common. That's why it's always better testing the base damage without any combat perks, to develop some new ones suiting for shotguns.
vedaras:
--- Quote from: Surf Solar on June 12, 2010, 11:11:52 PM ---
Solar already said the weapons damage (Jackhammer) is fine. It's that there are specific perks available for Snipers and Biggunners, that's why they are so common. That's why it's always better testing the base damage without any combat perks, to develop some new ones suiting for shotguns.
--- End quote ---
dont need those bla bla bla... Solar said (too lazy to quote, if you need you can find) that there were many situations in king of the hill pvp tests where jackhammer could be even more useful then miniguns. And here i showed its usefulness by calculations, and i proved that topic statement (its what we are discussing about anyway) is damn correct.
P.s from calculations we also see that as you said guns needs to be balanced. So in first place why the fuck jackhammers range was nerfed by such ammount? It makes underpowered item even more underpowered thats not balance :> (Dont get me wrong, im not blaming devs, neither i am whining, from the very beginning of this topic im just trying to say that jackhammer needs one kind or another boost or lower its crafting requirements and of course price what is also a solution).
Solar:
Well, much as I hate having to go through other peoples stuff and without it being on a spreadsheet, but if you insist:
--- Quote ---Jackhammer attacks result 5 bullets per burst all doing 18-29 damage what is 23.5+2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage perks. Shotgun shells have no impact on it, and bullets meet resistance and we have (23.5 - 12 +2) * 5 * 0.5 = 33.75 damage per burst.
Avenger with AP ammo. 40 bullets per burst all doing 8-11 damage what is 9.5 +2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage. AP ammo and resistance impact on damage results in:
((9.5 +2) * 2/3 - 12/4) * 40 * 0.85 = 158.(66) damage per burst.
Avenger with JHP ammo. 40 bullets per burst all doing 8-11 damage what is 9.5 +2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage. JHP ammo and resistance impact on damage results in:
((9.5+2) * 2 - 12) * 40 * 0. 15 = 66 damage per burst.
--- End quote ---
Jackhammer attacks result 5 bullets per burst all doing 18-29 damage what is 23.5+2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage perks. Shotgun shells have no impact on it, and bullets meet resistance and we have (23.5 - 12 +2) * 5 * 0.5 = 33.75 damage per burst.
Avenger with AP ammo. 40 bullets per burst all doing 8-11 damage what is 9.5 +2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage. AP ammo and resistance impact on damage results in:
((9.5 +2) * 2/3 - 12/5) * 13 * 0.85 = 62.62 damage per burst.
After piercing trait goes to DT/3 instead of DT/5 (This is why I was using CA instead of BA, because this makes no difference to it – changing perks!)
Avenger with AP ammo. 40 bullets per burst all doing 8-11 damage what is 9.5 +2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage. AP ammo and resistance impact on damage results in:
((9.5 +2) * 2/3 - 12/3) * 13 * 0.85 = 40.52 damage per burst. (Jackhammer does 83% of this damage, even though Avengers have their perfect perks and the Jackhammer doesn’t yet - a normal Minigunwould do 77% of this)
Then for completeness JHP is actually:
Avenger with JHP ammo. 40 bullets per burst all doing 8-11 damage what is 9.5 +2 average damage from 2x bonus ranged damage. JHP ammo and resistance impact on damage results in:
((9.5+2) * 2 - 12) * 13 * 0. 15 = 21.45 damage per burst. (Jackhammer does 157.3% of this)
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