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[avv]

Lordus is right, players dont want to play for the whole days just to get something that can be lost in 10 sec - look here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wFIHmOkrwg    
starts at 0:45

so much wasted time, cooldowns, that can be lost in 10 sec, i dont want to spend 10 hours a day just to be able to fight a few times,
u say people had too much stuff, no matter what u do at the end of the day there will be people with tons of armors and other shit on the floor all u do is making them play gather and craft much longer than before

Nice fight, very exciting. Dudes in CA's insert modoc from the east in line formation only to encounter enemy that enters from same place a moment later  
Too bad it was so quickly over.

But the problem isn't necessarily the cooldowns. You say that it takes too long to get "pvp stuff". Well that's because the game encourages pvp stuff to be goddamn super powered plasma rifles and imba top notch combat armors. The shops are full of stuff that could be used for pvp but players don't want to use it because then they wouldn't stand a chance. There's hundreds of shotguns, pistols and rifles in the shops, nothing wrong with them except that only best of the best is good enough. It would be much more realistic, and hell, even cooler if the lower tier equipments would be the main fuel of war. Nothing like sawed off shotguns and tommyguns. Fallout tactics was much cooler in the beginning when you had guys with ak47 and hunting rifles, it became a scifi shooter when every squad member had power armors and gatling lasers.
If lower tier stuff was good enough for pvp, you'd get to fight much more often and it would hurt less to lose.
Other issue is that players can create so powerful fighters that they do terrible damage with those top tier weapons. No wonder the fights are over fast.

[Izual]

avv is highlighting the real problem ; you still think you NEED to be level 21 and to have a super stuff to do PvP (LSW, CA, Sniper Rifle, shitloads of ammo, and so on). Try to think that now, with everything being quite rarer, you don't need to come in CA to fight well. Grab a leather armor and a rifle, because your opponents won't have great gear neither.

Miniguns are painful ? They are rare. Instant Kills are painful ? That's the proof you don't have to take your CA in fights, would be too risky if it's not a big battle.

[Surf]

Simple solution - cut all those high tier equipment down. Make it uncraftable, just obtainable bye some events or so..

[Izual]

Well that's what is happening with top tier equipment already. CA and so on are only middle tier.

[Killy]

Izual u really dont get the problem, u have tiers of weapons and u cannot win with a grease gun agains someone who is using a minigun, now think about armors DT DR and stop saying this bs, u have to have the same stuff if u want to have a chance, then comes skill

[Surf]

Serious? I always thought CA's and BA's are already top notch (cause PA and APA aren't implemented anyway)..
Why is it then that I still see miniguns and CA's everywhere?

[Izual]

You are complaining because weapons are rare, but you also say that your enemies always have miniguns. Right, I don't get it.

[Killy]

IZUAL LOL that was an example, u cannot win with tier 1 weapon against someone wearing a tier 3 armor, b/c DT and DR is making u dealing 0 dmg u dont really get it? only eye shoots can save ur sorry ass but then look at range, all those shitty guns have max 20 range ...

[Killy]

avv is highlighting the real problem ; you still think you NEED to be level 21 and to have a super stuff to do PvP (LSW, CA, Sniper Rifle, shitloads of ammo, and so on). Try to think that now, with everything being quite rarer, you don't need to come in CA to fight well. Grab a leather armor and a rifle, because your opponents won't have great gear neither.

Miniguns are painful ? They are rare. Instant Kills are painful ? That's the proof you don't have to take your CA in fights, would be too risky if it's not a big battle.

dude go play some pvp, already people are using ca bh and miniguns, plasma nades and all max tier weapons, u had ur dream of making them "rare" as i said people already have floors full of them as long as they have no life ..

[Izual]

If you can't win against someone in CA, it's harder to "lose your stuff in 5 minutes" if you're wearing one ! =)

And yes, bottom tier can't win against middle tier, if you don't use criticals - instant kills, for example. That's why snipers are good. But it's a bit off-topic, I thought it was a discussion about the fact you lose your stuff to often in this game ?

Edit : And use Edit, Killy. You say that people have shitloads of stuff, so what is that topic about ?

[Quentin Lang]

Actually, with the instakills back, the gap between low and high tier guns has been shortened, and you can get great kills with 10mm pistol or even BB gun if you get lucky. Same with EW - theres always cheap-ass laser pistol. But what about BG? BG has no cheap alternatives for PvP. Flamer? Yeah right, even if its improved, it has 5 hex range. Thus, even if you can deal around 70 damage, and 150 if its a crit, you cant pursue people with it. Rockets? They aint cheap anymore either.

[Killy]

is about making players play for 10 hours a day to get it, u said u want to have many factions on the server, all crafting changes are leading to 2 big alliances no matter how u look at it, i like the new crafting system but the amount of items must be changed. Making crafting more time consuming is not solving the problem ... the same reducing ammo to 50 bullets

[Neuromancer]

is about making players play for 10 hours a day to get it, u said u want to have many factions on the server, all crafting changes are leading to 2 big alliances no matter how u look at it, i like the new crafting system but the amount of items must be changed. Making crafting more time consuming is not solving the problem ... the same reducing ammo to 50 bullets

So when this issue wasn't affecting you directly you were trolling on my topic about rockets that changes were good, but now when changes are half as much severe and are concerning your interests -  so you're now first to fight for old crafting system - rotfl.

[Killy]

So when this issue wasn't affecting you directly you were trolling on my topic about rockets that changes were good, but now when changes are half as much severe and are concerning your interests -  so you're now first to fight for old crafting system - rotfl.

trolling ,dude u dont know how much is 2x2 go back to school, on top of that u are making stupid mistakes and calling other idiots at the same time, go back re read the topic and just... srsly  just go back to school

[avv]

Actually, with the instakills back, the gap between low and high tier guns has been shortened, and you can get great kills with 10mm pistol or even BB gun if you get lucky.

That's for snipers. Not all small guns users are snipers, or shouldn't have to be.

But what about BG? BG has no cheap alternatives for PvP. Flamer? Yeah right, even if its improved, it has 5 hex range. Thus, even if you can deal around 70 damage, and 150 if its a crit, you cant pursue people with it. Rockets? They aint cheap anymore either.

There you nailed another problem here. The 3 gun skills aren't balanced by means of price and availability. If they were, it wouldn't make much sense that there are as many miniguns as there are pistols. In post apocalyptic world heavy and high tech armament should be quite rare, but that can't be in our game because we got 3 gun categories and everyone has to get their hands on weapons easily. Wouldn't it make much more sense that everyone could use all guns, but eventually strong guys would prefer big guns, accurate guys would prefer long range rifles, agile guys would like to use pistols or smgs and energy weapons would be just rare post-war artefacts?