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[kyborekcz]

I would be happy to know what´s going on? Why are the ammo still harder and harder to make? When making 100 pieces at a time it was still pain because you could loose them easily when meeting some player, or just use them all very fast (even with desert eagle).
So why we make now only 50 pieces of ammo at a time? for same cost of resources?
You want us to be mining all the time just to meet another PKer between mine and town or anywhere else?

Please return number of munition made to normal (100 for small guns ammo)

Or how are we supposed to enjoy game? Because crafting is not fun for me, i cant get any caps. I like battles but i get into normal battles rarely.

[RavenousRat]

Yes, devs wtf? I still can craft NH Needler Cartriges (don't need HQ materials) x100 and trade for sniper rifles, .223, and armor. Make it x50 too. And also I getting too much XP for it.

Best choice is:
If ammo don't require HQ materials = x50 and very low XP,
If require x100 and normal XP.

I know HQ ammo still x100, etc., but it's just to divide x50/x100 with reason. So guarded mine = x50, HQ = x100.

[demel]

This is madness.I dont know how do developers imagine it, but it seems to me that this game is more and more for crafters...they perpaps try to destroy PvP play..I really dont know how else to perceive it..

[gordulan]

wait for it, wait for it, wait for it
BAM
THIS IS SPARTA!
(couldn't resist)

but still, it is quite a pain in the ass with the ammo reduction when crafting, this i guess is one more of those things we miss from pre-wipe fonline : quake edition

[avv]

What's the fuzz all about? You expect to craft loads of ammo without any profesion? Profesionals are the ones who make most ammo, at least sg smiths can do 100 pieces of advanced ammunition. If you don't like that type of ammo, you can sell it and buy the type of ammo which you can only make 50/per craft. For example level 1 gunsmith can make .44 fmj ammo and exchange them in .44 jhp by vendor, you even get surplus.

While under cooldown go blast some encounters or other players, sell the loot and get even more ammo.

[blahblah]

Almost all ammo right now is faster to craft than it was before wipe. Look at the numbers and click the green hyperlink for whole thread:

The differences largely come in terms of the different crafting rates which have been used to provide better comparitive rates for higher professions

Shotgun shell - Level 0
Before wipe $1400 for 100 @ $3000 an hour = 214.3 crafted an hour
After the wipe $480 for 50 @ $2000 an hour = 208.3 crafted an hour
~97.2%

10mm JHP - Level 0
Before wipe $1000 for 100 @ $3000 an hour = 300 crafted an hour
After wipe $480 for 50 @ $2000 an hour = 208.3 crafted an hour
~70%

10mm AP - Level 1
Before wipe $1200 for 100 @ $3300 an hour = 275 crafted an hour
After wipe $600 for 50 @ $3000 an hour = 250 crafted an hour
~91%

(Side note, 10mm ammo was kept higher because p90c was such amazing value before the wipe)

.45 Cal - Level 1
Before the wipe $1300 for 100 @ $3300 an hour = 253.8 crafter an hour
After the wipe $300 for 50 @ $3000 an hour = 500 an hour
~197%

(Significant boost to .45 cal ammo because the guns are uninspiring ... they are now at least cheap)

5mm JHP - Level 1
Before wipe $1200 for 100 @ $3300 an hour = 275 crafted an hour
After wipe $350 for 50 @ $3000 an hour = 428.6 crafted an hour
~156%

5mm AP - Level 2
Before wipe $1400 for 100 @ $3600 an hour = 257.1 crafted an hour
After wipe $885 for 100 @ $4000 an hour = 452 crafted an hour
~176%

(Minigunners!)

.223 FMH - Level 2
Before wipe $1800 for 100 @ $3600 an hour = 200 an hour
After wipe $1445 for 100 @ $4000 an hour = 276.8 an hour
~138.4%


Flame fuel - Level 0
Before wipe $900 for 20 @ $3000 an hour = 66.7 an hour
After the wipe $120 for 10 @ $2000 an hour = 166.7 an hour
~249.9%

Flame fuel II - Level 2 was 3
Before the wipe $2000 for 20 @ $3900 an hour = 39 an hour
After the wipe $990 for 40 @ $4000 an hour = 161.6 an hour
~414.4%

Explosive Rockets - Level 1 was 2
Before the wipe $2000 for 10 @ $3600 an hour =  18 an hour
After the wipe $300 for 1 @ $3000 an hour = 10 an hour
~55%

(Please notice the decrease in profession levels, if it had stayed the same it would hqave been 75%  of old crafting time)

AP Rockets - Level 3
Before the wipe $3000 for 10 @ $3900 an hour = 13 an hour
After the wipe $2000 for 5 @ $5000 an hour = 12.5 an hour
~96.2%



In conclusion, most times either stayed virtually the same (lower levels) or got a lot faster (higher levels) - with the exception of explosive rockets, which went lower a level and recieved a price increase and 10mm jhp which can be lethal in the SMGs, but also need to be low level, so suffer from a decrease in crafting time but having to remain quite pricey due to their unique low/high tech level weapons.

Also note just how much BG ammo was decreased outside of the explosive rocket and the AP Rocket staying the same price.

Later Solar said that maybe indeed the weight of crafting materials may need adjusting.

[kyborekcz]

I am writing the post because they changed it again, lvl 1 SG now can make only 50 pieces of .44 fmj too, when it was 100 it was at least good.

Maybe you can make ammo faster than before but weight is the problem, because you collect by two and not by five, you can be too overweighted and so cant take much resources with you. If you use mercenary then everything is allright but again, it is still slow.
It would give sense if players that have SG 1 would make 75 ammo with same resources, SG 2 would make 100 (normal), and SG 3 150 ammo at once

Making it harder to get ammo means less PVP (not for rich players, ie. good PVPers, so you dont get rid off of overpowered PKers), but it also means less PVE (player versus entity). And by my opinion fallout is not about endless crafting, it is about battles because battles makes fun for players.

And at end i would like to say that today one thing happened to me, i started playing Fallout 2 again and it was more fun for me. Thing about it, evolution or revolution?

[RavenousRat]

Making it harder to get ammo means less PVP (not for rich players, ie. good PVPers, so you dont get rid off of overpowered PKers), but it also means less PVE (player versus entity). And by my opinion fallout is not about endless crafting, it is about battles because battles makes fun for players.

The problem isn't in this.
Opposite, I suggest to make x50 also for Needler Catriges. Only ammo, that requres HQ materials must be crafted at x100, all other ammo x50. Also reduce XP from Needler Catrgides, it gives almost the same XP as .223, but much easy to craft.

[Wichura]

because you collect by two and not by five, you can be too overweighted and so cant take much resources with you. If you use mercenary then everything is allright but again, it is still slow.

Can you count? Let me write this (once again) clear:
- BEFORE wipe - 5 minerals/ore per 6 minutes - 50 minerals/ore per 1 hour
- AFTER wipe - 2 minerals/ore per 2 minutes - 60 minerals/ore per 1 hour
Plus you have now cumulative cooldowns for gathering, so you DON'T NEED to stick like a dick during wedding night next to rock piles. Just dig, dig, dig, go make something useful from these rocks, kill some shit, go back to digging.
Right, to make something with a bit more punch you need "dangerous" materials from unguarded mines. Take some friends with you and kill all yahoos inside or go other time than rush hours. And here you go.


I don't understand. Are people blind, too greed or just plain stupid?

[Hololasima]

Can you count? Let me write this (once again) clear:
- BEFORE wipe - 5 minerals/ore per 6 minutes - 50 minerals/ore per 1 hour
- AFTER wipe - 2 minerals/ore per 2 minutes - 60 minerals/ore per 1 hour
Plus you have now cumulative cooldowns for gathering, so you DON'T NEED to stick like a dick during wedding night next to rock piles. Just dig, dig, dig, go make something useful from these rocks, kill some shit, go back to digging.
Right, to make something with a bit more punch you need "dangerous" materials from unguarded mines. Take some friends with you and kill all yahoos inside or go other time than rush hours. And here you go.


I don't understand. Are people blind, too greed or just plain stupid?

I dont understand. Are you blind ? Or just plain stupid ? Yes they(Devs) have many many good things, but they have many many bad things too, like FA, XP, PvP, and something in crafting. You dont see our problem and we dont see your problem(But you enjoying game right now, you cant have any problems)

[Wichura]

I dont understand. Are you blind ? Or just plain stupid ? Yes they(Devs) have many many good things, but they have many many bad things too, like FA, XP, PvP, and something in crafting. You dont see our problem and we dont see your problem(But you enjoying game right now, you cant have any problems)

Sure there are many bad things (FA + weakness for example, disabling FA in TB mode - I prefer TB and I can't heal my char other than with stimpacks, disabling Science in combats - no more spartan trolling shit :>), but when I read over and over again of how shitty new gathering system is (gathering! crafting definetely needs some ... erm ... adjustments), I just can't stand it. Simply - gathering is now much better than before.
And yes, I'm enjoying game much more now than before wipe. Should I feel guilty?

[Bartosz]

(...)but they have many many bad things too, like FA, XP, PvP, and something in crafting.

And how does it relate?

[Wichura]

Quite simple really - you can't gain XP as fast as before using FA, what causes you are unable to play PvP somehow (below 21 level) and also crafting system doesn't bring as much hi-tec stuff as easy and fast as before.
[tada.wav]

[Bartosz]

Quite simple really - you can't gain XP as fast as before using FA, what causes you are unable to play PvP somehow (below 21 level) and also crafting system doesn't bring as much hi-tec stuff as easy and fast as before.
[tada.wav]

True, but I rather meant how does it relate to the thread and your calculations, oh well...

[Solar]

and something in crafting.

Such as? I only see these nonsense threads which complain about the same thing I explained in the last thread. Crafting is almost universally faster than it was before and in some cases it is only ~40% of what it used to be.

also crafting system doesn't bring as much hi-tec stuff as easy and fast as before.

I'd be surprised if anything hi-tech took longer now than it did before. In fact I'd be surprised if the much lower prices and much faster crafting per hour resulted in anything other than significant reductions in time taken to craft something.

Of course I ignore the fact its harder to Bot out of politeness.


As for FA, I'm playing my Doctor char again ... its far better than the stupidly good and abusable system we had before.

...and the last one, we've already said we will look at xp for critters, not really needed to continually moan about it on a loop.


Thanks for saving me the trouble of quoting myself btw