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[avv]

It would be cool to check from the worlmap what's each town's status.

"This town is under the control of blablabla, they ruling it with terror and despotism"

Dude wtf, They have Miniguns and Zook'as, That pwns.. They could own the shit outta of a Faction.

Npcs are dumb and easy to trick.

[Killy]

well they have 200 hp, and respawn from time to time, once i killed a guy 4 times in a row ...
i said its a problem for single players, not for factions, besides militia is too cheap 1500 is nothing if u look at merc prices, since when militia was intended to be a pk tool?

Oh, and Killy - if Militia's so great, how come your gang doesn't buy any when you take a town? Could it be the fact that you know nothing's wrong with the system ("is fucked up" is a pretty serious argument, truly worthy of a Red Dot field commander!) and you're just angry that the days of trolling and wreaking havoc with a single hunting rifle are over?

one more thing, u can only have 15 guys in a single town that gives 15x 1500 = 22500
well we dont buy b/c we dont want to sit in the town looking at them, its boring and time consuming, im talking about the imbalance when cheap militia is killing anyone u want them to kill, u dont even have to supply ammo for them  ... if we think about the TC, it  doesnt make sense at all, traders would like to have players in their town more than kill them off, someone messed up

[Colombo]

But militia isn't messed, messed is bonus for populated town. Because there isn't.
But Rogues are protecting Broken hills, you can enter and mine there. Not free of course, but making the town safe, because they want happy miners. Happy miner give share more often, thus creating profit for them. This is path, not nerfing militia.

[Nice_Boat]

It doesn't matter what they have. They're still dumb NPCs at the end of the day, and since no faction can watch them 24/7 in military terms they're just dead weight. If a gang wants to take over and it isn't a bunch of half-assed morons we're talking about, they kill the militia without any problems when the owners aren't around or can't immediately react - and that is when the real contest begins (and basically only PCs and mercs are used to resolve it). And no, it doesn't respawn - you have to buy each member.

Since we've established what militia does not factor in, let's talk about what it does:
- it makes a somewhat permament presence of a controling gang possible - before they had to constantly fear snipers and didn't have any influence on their own friggin' town aside from the odd `go in, kill shit` routine
- the controlling gang can dispose of troublemakers and unwanted guests; therefore it is able to make the law and actually GUARD the city without maintaining 24/7 high player presence, which was the dev-declared purpose of the entire TC system in the first place.

tl;dr version - militia won't help you defend against organised attacks, it will just keep some trolls (cause you still can ALLAHU AKBAR or snipe militia members to make the controlling faction's life difficult) and people you want no business with at bay.

[Kilgore]

If a faction is big and powerful enough to take control of the town and place militia there, they should be allowed to do whatever they want there, set their own rules, that's what whole TC thing is about. You don't like, them, take your faction/friends or convince ruling faction's enemies to kill them and take the town back. This game is not supposed to be 100% friendly for the newbies and single players. There are guarded towns where you can trade or do whatever you want, so why not try there to do your shit. It's pathetic to create whine thread and try to change game rules just because you're getting killed by the faction guarding town in game.

I like TC how it is atm, of course it needs few further fixes (for example preventing the possibility to kill militia one by one by just luring them to the other corner of the map), but it's a lot better than before. It would be sad if all work on TC thing was wasted just because of noobs whining because they're getting killed by PK faction guarding the town.

In fact, militia attacking everyone attacked by a member of controlling faction is a good thing: a single guy can make militia attack members of enemy faction before they will take good positions to take whole militia out.

[Killy]

who is whining? u can use that word every time i want to speak about something,the thing is the new TC doesnt make sense at all, people kill all blue suits that are entering a town for free, all they have to do is spend 1500 caps, and they get an unlimited pk machine ...

[Dark Angel]

Old system (No TC time and zone) without Militia is better

[DrapiChrust]

The idiocy of the TC is in making it a pure PvP massacre without any consequences whatsoever. It's not that people shouldn't be able to make TC a massacre if they want to. They should be able to do as they please in their city.

And face some fucking consequences of their actions. Dammit, this is so dumb - how the fuck a town is able to prosper and work the 'tax money' when people are dying on the streets on a daily basis?! Goddamn, how a battleground can prosper ANYHOW?! The answer is - it cannot. Honestly, any economy will collapse under a mountain of corpses.

I won't repeat my suggestions about this, 'cos devs treat such things as ''impossible, won't work, nobody will go for that, no, no, no, we tried sth quite similar once and it didn't work so no connection between mindless bloodshed in the city and it's economy will ever work, never ever, not that it may didn't work at some point, no, not that it was simply first try and first tries never work as they are supposed to, no, it just don't work at all, stop thinking about it (...)''

Honestly, I know it is just a game, but the way some (SOME!) gangs treat their cities, NPCs should just pack their bags and go camping in the desert. No same person wants to live in the middle of a fucking 24/7 battleground.
I would be happy to see some city to turn into a empty ghost town because of their mindless governers. 'Since the UberPawners gang moved in, everybody got shot, starved to death or ran away' - that is fallout man   war never changes - and war has consequences.
--------------
EDIT: don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that TC should be changed or sth. I'm not interested in TC and won't ever be interested as long as TC will be only a way to lure PvP lovers from random killing in the desert. There should always be some large-scale PvP possibilities for bigger and more agressive gangs. I'm just a bit dissapointed, as Controlling a Town has a great potential and so far it is reduced to simple PvP, only with some rules. Now it's just 'you guys go kill each other and we'll give the money to the one who'll win so he could get the fuck out to raise hell in somebody else's backyard'

[Nice_Boat]

...

That's funny, last time I went to a city controlled by The Rogues and met them there it was a matter of exchanging greetings and being off on my way to mine. Same with some other people I know. Oh, and some had to pay a part of what they dug. Oh, and there was that bluesuit nobody recongnised that was told to fuck off and the other one that was shot on sight. Well... sucks to be him.

The point is, TC is working because factions finally are in control and can actually enforce their policies in the towns they control. All the "pure 24/7 battleground" whine is coming from people who are not welcome in some towns and want the devs to override their personal screwups, shortcomings or oversights with a gimmicky gameplay mechanic.

The fact is that current TC is perfectly agreeable for a post-apo setting. A gang takes over a city, takes control of the resources - and wants to make sure only the "right" people have the right to enter. If you don't know the right people, you're obviously screwed and reduced to low-tier stuff. As for the NPC population - since they've been defeated, I guess terror is the name of the game. No sheeple would just leave their comfy houses and go camping in the desert if the only ones being killed were the outsiders and the odd citizen questioning the authority of the chief. That's how it works with warlords or gangs, sorry. Moreover, since some important resources are scarce, killing is no longer done for the sake of killing. It's a war for resources and the ability to expand your groups influence. It's an awesome system - and it should stay and be improved.

[Raegann]

Honestly, I know it is just a game, but the way some (SOME!) gangs treat their cities, NPCs should just pack their bags and go camping in the desert. No same person wants to live in the middle of a fucking 24/7 battleground.
I would be happy to see some city to turn into a empty ghost town because of their mindless governers. 'Since the UberPawners gang moved in, everybody got shot, starved to death or ran away' - that is fallout man   war never changes - and war has consequences.

+1 I think that's a point.
If you treat a town like shit, it's supposed to give you the shit back. I don't like the idea of profit from killing the city and it's economy. If you want the town for yourself, just get only what you produce by yourself.
The real problem probably begins, when you want to implement these more real mechanics.
I would like to see for example if the items, which are spawned in the containers as a reward for TC actually exist somewhere - probably in a NPC merchant - and when they spawn, they're taken from the merchant. Cause now there is no advantage of not killing everyone on sight, except getting share from what he mines. So if you just don't allow anyone to interact in town economy, you should get your rightful reward, which is nearly zero.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree, that someone can be a badass and it's totally a part of the game, but there should also be a consequences, like adequate rewards, which could actually motivate someone to being a sort of gooder (yep, I know, this word by itself is asking for so much lulz from all the badasses ) and thus actually guarding city and it's interests, instead of just blindly killing everybody. So there should be anyway two means of how to deal with a city and it's visitors - kill everything and loot it -> none/ low rewards gained from containers; and guarding the city from scoundrels to help the city prosper -> none/ low loot from players and higher rewards from containers.
EDIT: I think there is simply needed a variety of player behavior, which is supported by game mechanics. What is your reward now for allowing people to trade etc. in "your" city = letting city prosper? Nothing, just "a good feeling". On the other hand if you kill everything you've got the same reward as a gooder + the loot from players. Well, if people here advocate killing everything on sight, I personally think, that we should just give everybody a right for choice and each having it's consequences. It is just a way too oriented on one type of gameplay now.
PS: Also my post doesn't say that controlling gang shouldn't have right to choose who can reach the resources. It's their right for sure, but it's not for the weal of town economy and town inhabitants, who are producing profit eventually, it's only the interest of controlling faction. These interests are not the same. As well as there can be a good ruler, there can be a bad ruler, who screw the whole town bringing it only harm trying to get all the profit for himself. If someone is governing a place like a selfish destructive moron, it just should be a big difference from bringing prosperity, law, development to the whole company/ place/ town.

[Kilgore]

Well, the biggest problem are people who think that they have right to go to northern cities and do whatever they want wherever they want and whenever they want. Wrong, dudes. And it all starts back in NCR, where you can chat/trade or whatever and every player starting a fight or stealing will get his ass raped by guards who stand in every corner of the street (this is "game mechanics supporting peace and dealing with assholes"). Then, people go north and are totally angry because it's not so safe as in NCR and Hub, they got killed, looted and then post a thread "OMG IT'S NOT FAIR". Wasteland is harsh. You want to survive, create/join a faction, start controlling a town and then make it safe, prosperous and full of life.

People need to learn that the only right they have in the north is the right to be killed and looted.

[Izual]

You want to survive, create/join a faction, start controlling a town and then make it safe, prosperous and full of life.

Problem is, nowadays saying northern towns are "full of life" thanks to Town Control would be a bit overrating =p

[Raegann]

Problem is, nowadays saying northern towns are "full of life" thanks to Town Control would be a bit overrating =p

Wasteland is harsh. You want to survive, create/join a faction, start controlling a town and then make it safe, prosperous and full of life.

Anyway my point was to say, that there is really no motivation (in the mean of real and tangible profit) now to make place prosperous and full of life. Cause you can as well make it dead, even more unsafe and poor and you gain more. :p
PS: Also my motivation on this topic is not subjective in any way. I never died in any Northern town since wipe.

And yes, it's totally my right to "go to northern cities and do whatever I want wherever I want and whenever I want" and I'm ready to take all the consequences, another thing is how some folks gonna try to prevent me from doing so and not having any consequences at all for them and TC (and yes, your loot from containers should be highly dependable on the profit of the town for the time period you're ruling the place.. so if you kill the player barters who want to trade there, you just take the whole cake and the town has no profit at all from the killed player).
I think the controlling factions just mostly want to devour whole cake, but this shouldn't happen. They should just get their share of the cake from the town. If you devour the whole cake, the town simply has no way to profit and getting some share of town's non-existing wealth from the containers is totally irrelevant and unreasonable.
Now the town control has actually nothing to do with the town, the town itself is just a sort of coulisse for PvP players/ PKs. But it should be a lot more. It should be a place with it's own mechanism and if you screw it, you really shouldn't get unreasonable benefit. If this would be the case, you still have a right of choice - kill the place and it's economy and get your loot only from individuals OR make the place better and prosperous and get your reward from the system (economy of the town). Gaining both from just being selfish and taking everything for yourself is absurd and it's actually a large con for playing on a good side (and I believe you guys too would have a lot less fun if the dark side has no organized opponent).
PS: The situation now is like on sandpit. The child (controlling faction) just want to tread all the sand castles of everybody else and still have on the end of day a nice view of many great sand castles (reward from containers). But it's not supposed to happen like this. On the end of the day there is only one castle (the one of controlling faction) and "probably" it's even not gonna be the more pretty the more sand castles the child destroyed that day. It's probably gonna be even shitty looking castle, because you invested (almost) all your time on destruction, not on creation.

[Gunduz]

I'm not going to quote anyone, but many of you have said similar things. Factions should be able to run towns as they please. But there should be rewards to encourage them not to massacre everyone. I don't know what the issue is, maybe it's an engine thing, maybe it's complicated to code, maybe the devs just don't like it.

But if x amount of trade occurs in town (trade by faction members would count for 1/4 or maybe even zero), or y amount of materials are harvested in town if that's the case, then the town is pleased with the controlling faction, and provides z number of militia for free (maybe even in addition to the current max), with the number increasing for continued control periods.

And if your faction wants to hold the town for yourself and kill everyone else entering, then you just have to hire the militia as is the case now or try really hard to trade between yourselves and the town.

[Nice_Boat]

Problem is, nowadays saying northern towns are "full of life" thanks to Town Control would be a bit overrating =p

At least they're "safe" for controlling faction's members and friends instead of being completely deserted with 23125232 people waiting on the worldmap and spamming preview