Author Topic: Fonline Origins  (Read 23854 times)

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2016, 10:21:33 pm »
"Town Control" should never be done in a town location but in a custom one. This way you are also free to design it in a way to make it at least partly competitive.

Who did invent Town Control in 2238? You was 2238's developer, so could you tell us more 'behind' stories about development process? I'd like to read something like that.

Offline Lexx

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2016, 06:55:10 am »
Well, not much to tell about it. Originally, TLA had something similar in the cathedral location. A terminal you can use, then reinforcements in the form of a trunk with items would arrive at a certain time. The aim of it is clear: Make people interact with each other, and grand them a bonus for winning. The background story didn't fit for our 2238, though, so we naively thought "wouldn't it be cool if players could manage their own city, care for it and play city guard?" - that was the original intend and of course this never worked. You can't control players like that- no matter how you try to reward them. They do whatever they want simply because. Anyway... as we all know, town control ended up with players camping the main location until reward appears. Ghosthack redesigned the system a few times based on player suggestions, but it never really worked out and just produced ghost towns or never ending battlefields.

Offline Ghosthack

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2016, 10:49:14 am »
Who did invent Town Control in 2238?

I would give Atom credit for the idea, but I implemented the code for it.

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Ghosthack redesigned the system a few times based on player suggestions, but it never really worked out and just produced ghost towns or never ending battlefields.
Yep, there's basically three versions: https://github.com/rotators/fo2238/blob/master/Server/scripts/_town.fos#L70-L72

We probably shouldn't have had it in main locations or maybe restricted it to only one such location with other PvP features instead, but we really were just testing a lot of different stuff, sometimes without any good overall design, some of those features never was released or was pulled quickly, like zone based economy and some other attempts to stop massive inflation.

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2016, 09:42:10 pm »
Zone based economy?

Do you mean the code that looks like it's trying to track items spawned vs lost in each map zone and adjust loot accordingly? It seems like a great idea but I am curious what issues it may have run into.

Offline Ghosthack

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2016, 02:41:02 am »
Zone based economy?

Do you mean the code that looks like it's trying to track items spawned vs lost in each map zone and adjust loot accordingly? It seems like a great idea but I am curious what issues it may have run into.

Yes, to counter farming in specific spots, especially around towns. Basically, each grid has some amount of value and when there is an encounter, this value/currency gets converted into items in encounters and it can get depleted if there's too much farming. Then it'll slowly go up again over time at some rate accordingly to how much total value there is in the economy, I think we tried to count all inventories of all players or something like that combined with bank accounts. I don't remember all the details of what was not working but it was a bit too complex and buggy, there was also a ton of other things to get done so we focused on that instead.

Someone could try to implement some variation on that again, it may work.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 02:43:25 am by Ghosthack »

Offline JovankaB

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2016, 06:20:05 am »
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it can get depleted if there's too much farming

I can already imagine the shitstorm.

But I think the problem with depleting resources is not that it limits farming but that casual players (people who don't have time to check mines or scan the worldmap all day long) are penalized a lot more than than the "serious gamers".

I think farming shouldn't be effortless but it should be at least somewhat predictable. If I put x effort I get y result on average. I mean there can be some minor variation, but if I go to the mine and there is 0 ores there, or I try to find encounter and I can't find anything for 30 minutes because everything is being constantly depleted by pr0 players with army of alts, and then I have to log out because I don't have time to play anymore ...then I think something is wrong with the system.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 11:11:56 am by JovankaB »

Offline Lexx

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2016, 02:56:24 pm »
By now I think that this idea is taking on the issue from the wrong side anyway. There is a reason people farm in that very spot- if you really don't want players to farm it, then fix the issue instead of trying to come up with a super complicated system that basically only tries fixes the result of the issue (and probably fails anyway).

In the end, it's still an MMO and people farm in them. Like it or not, farming will always be a part of it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 02:59:29 pm by Lexx »

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2016, 11:11:17 pm »
Those are valid concerns. Limiting the overall loot will let in concetrate in veteran players hands.

I think to work mechanically and realistically the system would have to be limited to scavenge loot specifically. Literal farming and mining wouldn't be affected, only looting pre-war goods from maps. Overtime the server would move from a looting economy to a production one. That would make sense except in practice I think the system would be gamed and cheap produced goods would be "seeded" en mass to accommodate looting in key areas which would just be weird.

All in all I think I will hold off on pursuing any variant on this system unless a good idea strikes me.

Offline Ghosthack

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2016, 08:26:23 am »
Those are valid concerns. Limiting the overall loot will let in concetrate in veteran players hands.

I think to work mechanically and realistically the system would have to be limited to scavenge loot specifically. Literal farming and mining wouldn't be affected, only looting pre-war goods from maps. Overtime the server would move from a looting economy to a production one. That would make sense except in practice I think the system would be gamed and cheap produced goods would be "seeded" en mass to accommodate looting in key areas which would just be weird.

All in all I think I will hold off on pursuing any variant on this system unless a good idea strikes me.

I think the problem in a game (especially multiplayer) is that you have to strike a perfect balance between all systems. It becomes hard when you have PvE, PvP, solo players, faction players and so on. You also want to avoid hurting new players as much as possible which such a system easily can do.

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But I think the problem with depleting resources is not that it limits farming but that casual players (people who don't have time to check mines or scan the worldmap all day long) are penalized a lot more than than the "serious gamers".
Agreed, again this is where the problem of making a game for "everyone" comes in.

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In the end, it's still an MMO and people farm in them. Like it or not, farming will always be a part of it.
I'd change "farm" to "people will find the way that gives most return for least effort", that can be repeatable quests/task also.

http://www.raphkoster.com/games/laws-of-online-world-design/the-laws-of-online-world-design is always worth looking at when you are designing an online RPG.

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2016, 10:14:42 am »
So, what is current state of the project? How is going? What did you complete/implement? What are you going to develop?

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2017, 04:12:46 am »
Dead? Haven't heard from Marius for a bit.

We actually got a good list of ideas together and I got a chance to get used to the codebase for Fonline but project organization seems to have ceased.

It may sound like I am trying to spin this but I think it was a good experience. I have copious design notes for my next projects and although I didn't actually get much done beyond design and figuring out the code I also didn't waste any time on anything I won't be able to use.

Myself and Striberium are now working with Ravenis on FOnline Forever. It's a bit closer to my personal vision from the outset and I intend to be working on mostly the same things. The only actual bit of code I completed for Origins, tweaking the follower caps, is already implemented.

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2017, 03:53:47 pm »
Project is still in progres we just don't have time to write about changes on forum. Origins is still live.

Offline Ghosthack

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Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2017, 02:57:01 pm »
Project is still in progres we just don't have time to write about changes on forum. Origins is still live.

Sounds familiar, used to be the same thing when we were working on 2238 too. Also you may not want to write too much in case you throw away or change stuff etc.
Any plans for open/closed beta soon or is it further in time?

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2017, 07:23:20 pm »
Then write or respond people that you still alive. Small monthly hint would be cool.

Re: Fonline Origins
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2017, 11:52:12 pm »
We are still here
http://imgur.com/a/a8wCV