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Yes, this is the right step forward.

27 (45%)

No, it is not good enough or not needed.

7 (11.7%)

I have my own solution.

6 (10%)

I saw a pie in the sky!

20 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 58

[T-888]

I will cut corners as much as I can, no fancy, long introduction just straight to the point in first large paragraph, explanations only optional. Please, it is strongly advised you take full consideration of the issue before giving your voice or voting and even find alternative sources of information if you think you lack insight on the problem.

The idling timer once you enter the game first time is unnecessary and ineffective for the purpose it was made.

I don't think any part of the game should be restricted to the player once he starts off the game the very first time in the day. The thing that spoils fun for me that I feel like it is some sort chore to wait out this idling timer, when it comes Town Control, or even smaller fights it is very frustrating as it is only additional time you have to waste until you are able to fully use your character. In practice it is quite a lot of time to organize players for any kind of activity, no matter what you do, so I see this initial Idling timer flawed and just a mere annoyance that could be removed for our well being.

If you agree then you don't need to read any further, if you don't then there might be something that could sway your opinion, so please be open minded, respect others and be objective. Thank you.

The purpose of the initial idling timer can vary depending on point of view and it can be incorrect, but that is besides the point, because we need to look at it how it will affect the whole system integrity when it comes to clean combat, our relative opinion is a lot less worth. So, let us look at something solid.

Upon entering the game the idling timer was meant to prevent some sort of waves, if the player character would use a proxy, in simple words another address to fool the system. So that the player couldn't take advantage of it because the idling timer would apply to any address at all times, rendering the character useless. The thing, the purpose for the timer is flawed because, even so such abuse is highly unlikely because ...

The best thing a cheater can do now is to keep multilogs hidden somewhere in unguarded
locations, which I don't think is very effective except for sneakers.

Doesn't matter where, world map or unguarded location, proxies tend to have massive latency and generally unpractical to use, maybe only for sneakers and then it would render your ability to play normally without unexpected disturbances, lags, disconnections etc. etc. what is the main purpose why proxies cannot be used for waves. Currently the idling timer for a cheater is just the same inconvenience as for a clean player, but he doesn't need to keep them on world map.

And yes they currently can keep them in unguarded locations and if someone really wants to cheat, he will cheat as there always is some percent, it is up to each individual to make piece with that for the greater well being of all other players. I know that is a bold statement, but some truth it holds.

If someone thinks otherwise and there will be much abuse or something like that, well then.

I will believe it when I see it.

[JovankaB]

You really mastered making little point in lots of words...

Upon entering the game the idling timer was meant to prevent some sort of waves, if the player character would use a proxy

Wrong, it was supposed to prevent fast relogging in PvP, period. You can scrap whole proxy from your arguments, because nobody will sit in game all day long and catch normal non-proxy fast reloggers. Even if there were people to do it, it's impossible to catch fast reloggers because... durr, one character is off, and how you want to prove anything now? Who will observe these characters if they were really supposed to PvP or not? You have 180 seconds to react before [off] alt is gone. Or there would be lots of false positives and lots of butthurt on the forum "why my brother was banned".

So you can go back to drawing board.

[davrot]

Current system is just fine, obviously some players need more time to kick their fast relog addiction.

[avv]

You may have a point that it's unfair that a guy who just enters the game for first time of the day is punished, but how often you start fighting immediately after logging in the game, without knowing where enemies are and how many they are?
I believe most players suffer because they are doing something else when the call for action comes. Someone else had scouted the enemy and informs his team about them. Rest of the team has been in a standby mode all the time but they aren't ingame or are using some other character. Being in a state of readiness whilst having one's character safe is what the idle timer tries to punish. So if there was no initial idle timer, a team could just log their characters on wm whilst drugged and avoid the forced encounters, while one of their guys is scouting and tells when to login and spawn.

[T-888]

You really mastered making little point in lots of words...

I might put a lot of words into a little point, if you only see the tip of the iceberg.

I don't write anything without a purpose, some day you will have to understand that.

Wrong, it was supposed to prevent fast relogging in PvP, period. You can scrap whole proxy from your arguments, because nobody will sit in game all day long and catch normal non-proxy fast reloggers. Even if there were people to do it, it's impossible to catch fast reloggers because... durr, one character is off, and how you want to prove anything now? Who will observe these characters if they were really supposed to PvP or not? You 180 seconds to react before [off] alt is gone. Or there would be lots of false positives and lots of butthurt on the forum "why my brother was banned".

So you can go back to drawing board.

No need, I think you need re-think something.

The system already gives you an automatic idling timer when logging/re-logging while you have another character logging/logged/logging off from another client on the same IP or the same client, or if it is not that case, it should have been made that way, that you couldn't avoid idling timer by re-logging if your IP address was active in the last 3 minutes while the character is logging off. So we don't have to wait for the initial idling timer.

I know something about scripting at this point and it seems like another simple artificial CD on 1 variable.

So why is this initial idling timer here?

Proxy issue is on point, besides that I think many players would bring up this issue otherwise.

I really thought you were on point about all of this. That is why I wrote so much.

I will say it again, because maybe you misunderstood. If there is ONLY ONE character in game with YOUR IP
and the IP of the character didn't change, you will not get the 2.5 minute Idling Timer if you logoff for a second.

Unless you were lying about this.

[Brujah]

Regarding the two lines of T-888's post I've read: Your internet must run on coal if one proxy is enough to make you lag and reduce your PING that badly, the biggest lag problem in FOnline is for players away from Europe, the server itself is usually only shitty enough to give you some brief lags.



Regarding everything else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgflscOmW8

[T-888]

I have better internet connection than many people here combined, my country has like the third fastest internet in the world on average and I have a very, very good internet based on the average of my country.

I know what I am talking about, proxies are useless for such activities, there is not issue about how many proxies you use. One is enough for the whole client to run on 300-500MS on average what I have observed, the client you are on with the proxy, that is what matters.

Besides jovanka seems like has hit a wall of the system, because I found a hole in it. Read my previous post.

Nothing wrong with that, we all make mistakes and were here to test the game. Some better than others.

Current system is just fine, obviously some players need more time to kick their fast relog addiction.

Hehe, you don't understand the system and you vote. Besides all my encouragement to fully understand the issue.

[JovankaB]

Your whole argument is "proxies are useless so no need to worry about them".

But this is not true.

The thing is, I managed to ban one proxy in FOnline over the years but I'm quite sure there
was many more of them. It's just in this case I was lucky enough that I knew characters of
the proxy player, so I was sure it was a proxy. So I summoned him for testing.

The problem with proxies is that it's hard to tell if they are used or not. So better to have
a system where they can't be used efficiently. If proxy was the only way to make waves
of alts, that's exactly what would happen I'm afraid. Remember you would only need one
proxy at a time.

And I still don't think that having an alt over town logged off (therefore safe), waiting for
attack for hours or days - anytime - is that great. It's basically playing without playing.
You are ready to kill someone inside without being in the game.

[T-888]

Now we are talking, good.

So better to have a system where they can't be used efficiently.

This is at the cost of this whole waiting, organization problem with the initial idling timer, it is just a mere annoyance and it is the same for cheaters as they can still cheat if they want. I'm sorry, but your statement is bold, it has a point, but how many players clean players will have to play with with it and they can't avoid that, just to prevent an annoyance for the cheaters because fact is they can still cheat effectively and avoid current system? What is effective for you in this context? Players will get used to just about anything, but the thing is proxies really haven't ever effectively been used for waves, not ever in such a scale it was before and not ever it had such a huge impact and not ever it forced the whole server to follow the same play style in order to enjoy the game. Those are facts, real hard ones.

To be honest, our faction already encountered some opposing Russian gang that used second waves somehow against us in New Reno. Doesn't matter, you couldn't catch proxy cheaters before and you still can't, so ...

please, remove this annoyance as it doesn't serve any good purpose, it will not impact the game play on any large scale. If you still aren't sure, remember your own words what you should take in consideration before setting a conclusion.

I will believe it when I see it.

You are ready to kill someone inside without being in the game.

Players have farmed equipment, leveled up characters, made bases, buy cars, made taxi in order to sit extra time on world map? Players have to do it enough already, to just get ready and wait for their friends to join.

Nothing happens in without time, I'm sorry I'm starting to think you have no feel for time. It is here, it exists and it is fluid.

[JovankaB]

But you can play right away after logging, you just can't enter already existing combat zone for 150 seconds.
If you really hate it that much, start TC timer in another town and wait for the other team.

PvP players brought this system upon themselves by abusing alts in PvP to the point of hillbilly ridiculousness.

Now you can't abuse PvP alts. You can't jump at someone in the first 150 seconds of play. I think it's good.

[T-888]

But you can play right away after logging, you just can't enter already existing combat zone for 150 seconds.
If you really hate it that much, start TC timer in another town and wait for the other team.

No I can't play, because it is the only reason I log into this game and so as many other players and all players that have voted positively to this suggestion will agree based on other point of views, so as I can have other one's you should respect just like me and everyone else, you are no different and were asking you to come forward at least one time. Ye, sure make own timer each time when you are the one to enter the city, brilliant solution.

Your ignoring points again, players have to idle somewhere, wait till players get ready for some action, to organize, to wake people up, it all takes time and in practice this idle timer burdens with unnecessary amount of time we have to wait till we can play together, waiting out individual player idling timers till we can even enter city together, it is ridiculous. That time stacks up as individual players joins the game, for example, while we are waiting for enough players to just wake up so that we can have enough players to engage the enemy. I am not the only one who speaks the same point of view, put a fucking face on the players, were not some carpet, neither do I.

PvP players brought this system upon themselves by abusing alts in PvP to the point of hillbilly ridiculousness.

We didn't ask exactly for this. This initial idling timer is again some shady feature that isn't necessary, nobody wanted this, you made the decision in your circle of developers, what about us?

[LittleBoy]

Now you can't abuse PvP alts. You can't jump at someone in the first 150 seconds of play. I think it's good.

There are two things , one is idling time and one is Predator mod over WM. They are good , but not together .

Sometimes take all developers and make TC in city then write what is good...

[JovankaB]

There is basically a butthurt of people who have lots of useless PvP alts now and all they expect
from the game is login, click town in 0s and shoot whatever is inside. I have idea for you: logoff
over Hinkley. Maybe casuals will take over towns and won't be so butthurt about idling

[T-888]

I don't give a fuck about alts, I don't want to use alts and I'm happy that I don't have bring at least five of them each time I want to enjoy some fight and I'm pretty sure that goes for quite a lot of players. Besides that I never ever have leveled an alt in purpose to do FR PvP, I would have the same amount of alts without it or with it, because I'm simply interested in as much variety 2238 combat provides.

No idea what you are talking about, current system can work for it's purpose without the initial idling timer, just so as re-logging gives it and so prevents FR. I really don't understand what is wrong with you? Why can't you reason?

[avv]

No I can't play, because it is the only reason I log into this game and so as many other players and all players that have voted positively to this suggestion will agree based on other point of views, so as I can have other one's you should respect just like me and everyone else, you are no different and were asking you to come forward at least one time. Ye, sure make own timer each time when you are the one to enter the city, brilliant solution.

Personally I voted the wrong option because it was unclear which one supported and which one was against your proposal :>

But honestly how does the idle timer prevent you from attacking a tc team for example? Few minutes is enough to rally your team, then 2 minutes of waiting for idle to finish and you still have time to enter and attack. Ofcourse you can't scout the enemy as effectively as you used to or kill their frontier scouts as before, but that's the penalty for being the attacking team. There's finally some struggle for the attacker.

For example yesterday our alliance with a team of over 12 guys managed to log in, move over den and perform an attack inside 10 minutes no problem and I consider us less organized than TNB when it comes to teamwork.

Want action without restrains? Be the first team inside.