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[Linoleum]

Actually Giftless, that's a great idea!  We need another cap sink, too many people accumulating millions with nothing to do with them...

[Trokanis]

Actually Giftless, that's a great idea!  We need another cap sink, too many people accumulating millions with nothing to do with them...

Well it should be more than just caps, but yes the idea is sound, the fact of putting together a base, a gang, finding the resources, the plans, you should be rewarded with not having to constantly gather over and over, and then build over and over.  Nothing will change big gangs having TONS of items, it's just a fact of the loot system.  How you obtain those items and the rewards for your labors is what we're talking about.  Truth is in a game with full loot drop you kinda need the tons of items, cause if not the game becomes a one shot wonder.  You do pvp for a bit, you eventually die lose your stuff, either you have more, or you're done.

[Jorhan Stahl]

I personally think they need to sort out thievery in regards to pack brahmin. Gathering isn't that big an issue, though I'd like there to be either a few more mines, or a few NPCs that sell and buy ore at a decent rate (there may actually be NPCs that do, still new), and it'd be nice for at least two safe HQ mines, because I know, the risk is a big part of Fallout online, but I hate travelling through harsh zones, scraping by with my gear, only to be shot by a camper who'll end up looting 3 12. gauge shells and maybe a bullet-ridden, hole-filled leather jacket or something.

Oh yeah, thievery.

It should be as if they tried to steal from you, and it should use your perception or whatever the qualifier is for thieving fails/successes. I am getting so pissed off with FINALLY wrangling a brahmin to act as a pack animal, then mining a large amount of ores and minerals, only to have some lazy level 2 thief steal it all from him, without being punished for it.
It should state "[username] tried to steal from you" when a brahmin is being stolen from, too. It'd at least make them think twice about stealing from your carrying animal, rather than YOU do all the hard, tedious work of gathering, then they take it all, no retribution, no repercussions, nothing.


And when I say a reasonable price for NPC traders, I mean less than 1000 caps for ONE mineral or something like that. As a new player, I'd just like to say some of the prices for certain things are total shite. I have no problems with money or gear as I make most of it myself at level 11 or 12 I think, and sell the excess. But time taken to gather the materials + the difference in materials + the hazard in gathering said materials should be taken into account.
I don't mean your individual crafting time. You could intentionally take 20 hours to make a combat shotgun then ask for 10,000 caps for it because of your slow arse, I mean time taken, say, for a tommy gun (not the best gun, just an example here guys)
Depending on where you are, and if like me you camp out near-ish to NCR, I have to trek all the way down to the bottom of the map, gather a tiny amount of junk (my brahmin got shot going down there. It thought it could take on mutants and the like), drag it all the way back, mine some minerals and ore, providing others haven't taken the lot, then find some wood, then craft it all together, provided no one picks my pockets before I get to the work bench, now solved as I have a safe house rather than a tent, but yeah...


Kinda just rambled on a little there rather than said anything useful.

[Trokanis]

Valid stuff

It used to be if they failed on your Brahmin you would get a notice, though I think that was with guards around.  Nothing is gonna stop the thieves sadly every time they change something with them the shit hits the fan.  There is another thread about just gathering in the suggestions right now but some people are forcing it to not go very far.

 I personally understand your frustration with having to go to the unsafe places for the HQ stuff.  I do know that several dev's have stated that they refuse to add HQ to any place safe, and I can understand the reasoning behind it.  If there was a rework of the crafting system to make it so some of the better stuff that isn't really high tier gear could be crafted again with Low quality stuff it wouldn't be such a bad thing.  The fact you can make an m60 without HQ stuff but you can't make the bullets is insane.  Or you can make rockets but can't make a rocket launcher without the BP.  Right now the crafting system is so much of you can only make the most basic of stuff, it's just about useless.  Having Ore and Mineral spawn in the merchant table wouldn't be a bad idea, as you said for a fair price.  The whole system needs a rework. 

Combined with crafting, perhaps adding in that if you do dismantle an item you have a chance of learning how to make it *getting the blueprint*  Cause as you can see in my sig, BP hunting unless you make an Ares farm alt is pretty involved.

[Giftless]

And when I say a reasonable price for NPC traders, I mean less than 1000 caps for ONE mineral or something like that. As a new player, I'd just like to say some of the prices for certain things are total shite. I have no problems with money or gear as I make most of it myself at level 11 or 12 I think, and sell the excess. But time taken to gather the materials + the difference in materials + the hazard in gathering said materials should be taken into account.
I don't mean your individual crafting time. You could intentionally take 20 hours to make a combat shotgun then ask for 10,000 caps for it because of your slow arse, I mean time taken, say, for a tommy gun (not the best gun, just an example here guys)
Depending on where you are, and if like me you camp out near-ish to NCR, I have to trek all the way down to the bottom of the map, gather a tiny amount of junk (my brahmin got shot going down there. It thought it could take on mutants and the like), drag it all the way back, mine some minerals and ore, providing others haven't taken the lot, then find some wood, then craft it all together, provided no one picks my pockets before I get to the work bench, now solved as I have a safe house rather than a tent, but yeah...

I've been arguing for awhile to have a cash purchase option in-game to reflect the kind of player-to-player trades going on outside of the game. The trouble with having the barter value on raw materials too low is that players could just rape the vendor with the usual farmed weapons. A better system would be to allow a direct purchase through the dialog window, caps only. Something like 10 Metal Parts for 300 caps and 10 alloys for 600 caps.

You gotta understand too, that for some of the more established players, the hazards involved with crafting decrease substantially. Taking your Tommy Gun example (which is a bad craft choice anyhow vs. the grease gun due to it's junk cost) I'd still have little trouble with those due to having a car and base network set up. Just one of my trapper camps can yield around 1500 wood, boom that requirement is done. For Metal Parts I just have to bolt a cow to the bumper of my car and enter the right mine immediately adjacent to a base--it takes time but there's almost no risk. Junk is probably the most annoying to gather, but again, I know the areas where players aren't at and I can reach them quickly.

[Jorhan Stahl]

Yes. something like that guy who sells you detonator parts for 500 caps or whatever it is through dialogue.
I know the risk is the whole point of higher tier weapons and armor. Hell, if they had HQ minerals at the safe zone, I'd have a .223 pistol, plenty of ammo, a sniper rifle, combat armor etc. and I'm only level 13
It's the idea that, say, I have plenty of caps to spend on rarer materials, because I can just make any low tier armor and guns I need, and have more than enough ammo for them, so stims, materials and blueprints are all I want to spend my money on right now.

Maybe implement something like level restricted mines. the lower level restrictions for non safe mines means less rarer deposits.
I've tried running into a non safe mine when most other players are sleeping, and there's always a guy camping there (why you'd camp for anything other than XP is beyond me, no one in their right mind would go to a place like that with their best stuff. I'm still pretty much a newbie and even I know that) and I can't really get a gang together due to low xp, not a lot of money, and being considered a "Noob" by people so they won't allow me to come along on a mining trip or whatever.

Yes, trading with players, blah blah blah. That has the obvious draw-back of extortion once they know you really want that specific item.

I only use the tommy gun for it's extra range, really. also gathering junk doesn't really bother me. It's time consuming but with my high perception, cautious nature and lack of anything to lose when I go there to gather, if I get killed, hell, I get killed.
Could be worse. like the actual noob who shot me in NCR, getting his dumb arse killed in the process, just because he was too shit/cheap/idiotic to spend 104 caps on a robe so he killed me for mine.
I've got 10 of the damned things, and I only wear them because I hate the vault suit but that's going off topic.

Basically, they ought to implement a few NPC dialogue options that allow to you but certain rarer ores and minerals instead of having to go out to get shot every other minute. I know that's all part of the fun, but you need to understand, when you're a high level guy, with many 24 alts, with good gear in player gangs, it isn't all that bad.
When you're on your own because everyone you meet is either an idiot, a thief or a murderer who really, REALLY wants that shit covered shovel you're carrying for some odd reason, it just pisses you off.

[John Porno]

(why you'd camp for anything other than XP is beyond me, no one in their right mind would go to a place like that with their best stuff. I'm still pretty much a newbie and even I know that)

You were killed. Somebody achieved their goal.

[Brujah]

I've been arguing for awhile to have a cash purchase option in-game to reflect the kind of player-to-player trades going on outside of the game. The trouble with having the barter value on raw materials too low is that players could just rape the vendor with the usual farmed weapons. A better system would be to allow a direct purchase through the dialog window, caps only. Something like 10 Metal Parts for 300 caps and 10 alloys for 600 caps.

You gotta understand too, that for some of the more established players, the hazards involved with crafting decrease substantially. Taking your Tommy Gun example (which is a bad craft choice anyhow vs. the grease gun due to it's junk cost) I'd still have little trouble with those due to having a car and base network set up. Just one of my trapper camps can yield around 1500 wood, boom that requirement is done. For Metal Parts I just have to bolt a cow to the bumper of my car and enter the right mine immediately adjacent to a base--it takes time but there's almost no risk. Junk is probably the most annoying to gather, but again, I know the areas where players aren't at and I can reach them quickly.

So you craft grease guns?

[Jorhan Stahl]

You were killed. Somebody achieved their goal.

I've never been killed at an HQ mine. Hell, I've never even BEEN to an HQ mine, as I said, no one will take me with them and I've checked one out before carrying absolutely bugger all to get an idea of what it's like. someone shot and missed.  That's what I am saying. Also, even if I did go there and did get killed, XP is rewarded in regards to how powerful the creature is, so wouldn't, say, a level 24 killing me give him less xp than him killing a higher level encounter monster or NPC? Or are XP values different for players and it's more or less the same dependent on level?

[Mike Crosser]

Or are XP values different for players and it's more or less the same dependent on level?

Nope,0XP for players killed.
I believe it was implemented to prevent leveling exploits(IE killing your alts over and over until you are level 24)

[Giftless]

So you craft grease guns?

Not for a long time; it's more fun to farm khans once you have a decent combat character.

[Eternauta]

A bit of thinking about getting resources (ignoring current gathering/mining system):

Quest - Protect farmers to get fruit/fibers/tobacco. Guard mines to get ore/minerals. Protect a group of scavengers to get junk. The resources are sent to the player's tent (which reminds me of the suggestion to start with a tent) or to a base if a team of characters from the same faction come to the mine/fields/scavenging area.

The character(s) get the ad hoc location on their map and have to travel there to defeat enemies and protect NPCs. This way loners' rewards are not mixed with factions'. This brings up a question: what if a group of characters from different factions and/or loners come in a group and get the quest? (for example during TLL activities) - the reward goes to the leader's tent? it get divided into each guy's tent?

The reward should not depend on party size (which would be abusable) but on difficulty levels: there a lot of creatures in the wasteland that could be put in different levels of difficulty: ants, manti, dogs, (giant/pig/mole)rats, geckos, centaurs, floaters, aliens, deathclaws, also tribals, raiders and supermutants. The enemies could depend on location and game lore (wanamingos in Redding, geckos in Klamath, deathclaws in the Boneyard...)

Think about the quest Dogs of L.A. as a references. Just imagine you also gotta protect salvagers NPCs while doing it, and maybe even you get a little bonus for every friendly NPC that survives?

Buying and caravan protection - Talk to a NPC in the location (for example the guy who sells private mines) and buy resources via dialogue (fixed amounts with fixed prices so no Barter alt is used). The resources are yours now but you gotta protect them until they reach your tent or base. There could be different levels of difficulty here as well, so a caravan transporting a smaller amount of resources would not be an attractive prey for raiders, so you just gotta kill some rats you find on your way, while a bigger caravan might be attacked by Khans or remnants of the Master's army. This mode would probably be mostly for factions with a lot of caps.

Protecting mines - This mode does contemplate the current mining system: players go to an unprotected mine and get payed for protecting it. The player should stay in the area for a given time to get minimum (low) reward and get bonus for every unit of recource that exit the map (can't depend on the number of characters that go out alive as that would be abusable). If the character dies before the "protecting mine" cooldown is over, they get no reward. The reward could be in resources or caps (player's choice) and quite attractive so that pr0s got a reason to protect these locations for noobs/lowlevels.

[Giftless]

A bit of thinking about getting resources (ignoring current gathering/mining system):

Quest - Protect farmers to get fruit/fibers/tobacco. Guard mines to get ore/minerals. Protect a group of scavengers to get junk. The resources are sent to the player's tent (which reminds me of the suggestion to start with a tent) or to a base if a team of characters from the same faction come to the mine/fields/scavenging area.

This is good, even if it were a random encounter it would be nice to get a stack of 100 fruit, or 40 metal parts from battling various NPCs. Something to break up the monotony of multiple mouse clicks. I'm thinking you could hit one of these encounters on the world map per hour, and the enemies would scale slightly depending what level your character was at.