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[Sius]

There were many topics about weapon balancing and some of them included ideas about range reduce for some weapons and such but I did not found anything like these suggestions:

1:
Current range of a weapons should be considered as optimal fire range but we should be able to shoot everything with anything no matter how far it is. If we can see it we can shoot at that direction. Every weapon starting with throwing knife and ending with minigun, plasma and sniper rifle would have its own accuracy based on character stats and skills. So lets say that with 10ST+10PE+200% in every combat skill we would have these 4 weapons to test at long range:

Throwing knife - optimal range is lets say 15 hexes, but after crossing this range we would be still able to attack no matter how far the target is. If the target distance is 16 hexes and more we would get dramatically less and less accurate with every hex ending at lets say 20-23 hexes where chances to hit would be almost 0 and our knife would most likely land somewhere between 15 and 20 hexes.
Minigun - same deal only with that crossing optimal range should decide not only if we hit or no but also with how many bullets we hit. Simply point and shoot is not accurate but its still dangerous and that 15hp scratch it will make can decide whenever that next close-range burst will finish you for sure or not. Also there could be some wider bullet spread beyond optimal range.
Sniper rifle - as the most accurate gun crossing optimal range with it would mean hit/miss. Also some mistakes could be done while shooting at long range, like when aiming at left arm I would hit torso instead etc.
Plasma rifle - pretty much same deal as with the small guns only with addition of lower dmg on long distances. I mean that plasma/laser projectiles loose some energy while traveling so longer the distance is, the weaker projectile hits the target (if it hits the target at all). Yet this weaker dmg should not be anything radical like with BG, just some mild reduction.

Small guns should be the most accurate weapons available so their optimal range should be pretty wide and accuracy drop slower compared to other classes. Big guns should be close range weapons more or less with some exceptions (rocket launcher) but still dangerous at long ranges because you will get hit most of the times only for really low dmg. Throwing weapons should be close range backup when everything else fails but maybe something like grenade shrapnels could add some deadliness even at mid range. Energy guns should be pretty much like SG, only little less accurate and loosing effectiveness at long range but also with exceptions (laser gatling).

2:
2.1) I think that SG should dominate over any other weapon class as they are common, effective and easy to operate. I think it takes many changes to reach the point, when BG and EG would be rather rare leaving us mostly with small guns but this one could help. I think that using SG should be encouraged by some skill boost. Something like reading a book in normal Fallouts but in FOnline perspective. So maybe some quest that will reward you with +% or possibilities to get trained for money or something like this. So lets say that character with less than 100% in small guns would be able to get lets say +50% this skill in different ways not only through leveling but as soon as it hits 100% then even if the quest is not done yet it would not add +points (something like I can't teach you more than you know).
2.2) While not using aimed shots its counted as shooting to the torso. I would love some small chance to hit also other bodyparts from time to time, based simply on luck or accuracy (or moreover inaccuracy, since without aiming its logical to shoot at biggest part but yay I missed and I hit your leg instead, sorry...).

[Drakonis]

i loved it. Especialy the part where you can accidentaly hit opponents [other body part] instead of torso ha!
Just concerned about energy weps a bit. Since they are more expensive and more costy to operate- they should actually do more damage on medium ranger than small guns.

[Sius]

i loved it. Especialy the part where you can accidentaly hit opponents [other body part] instead of torso ha!
Just concerned about energy weps a bit. Since they are more expensive and more costy to operate- they should actually do more damage on medium ranger than small guns.

Well they should and they do, its only long range I'm talking about. I mean gun stats would remain the same as they are now with the possibility to shoot anything no matter how far it is. And in that point energy guns will do some nasty dmg at medium range (as they do now) but for longer distances they would loose some of that dmg.

[UbiValkin]

BG and EW really must be rare weapon, also look at thier varieties. EW: laser/plasma pistol/rifle ...that's all, gatling, as I know, almost noone want to use, because of MFCs wasting. BG... rocketlauncher and various support weapons. That's all... because everything developers took from standart Fallout (of couse...), but in FOnline having high skill in BG and EW, but min. in SG is normal... In standart Fallout it's normal only if you "cheating" by going to NCR from Arroyo and stealing bozars, then, of couse, you don't need SG skills, but standart Fallout (Arroyo->Klamath->Den->Modoc, etc.) means, you'll see first BG/EW at late game, and it MUST be more powerful, than SG.
In compare with FOnline... you can craft rocketlauncher (which is very rare in standart Fallout) on 1st lvl prof... flamer without prof, and for minigun 2nd prof. That's really-really easy. As I can remember from Fallout 1, the first time, when you can have laser rifles is 2 Super Mutants near entrance of Mariposa base, it's almost end of the game...
So balancing such weapons for FOnline you don't need to see standart Fallout's weapon characteristics. Devs should remake every weapons' stats for thier game, because it's not like standart Fallout.
So it's kinda "normally" that SG is weakest weapon type, because it considered to be common weapon, and BG and EW advanced weapon. The only thing, which kills EW is armor resistances vs laser, so logically BG must be the best choice for FOnline for now.

[RJ]

What do you expect? SG are most common weapons so they should be weakest.
Now you can kill people in combat armors with minigun by using only hunting rifle and leather jacket. This is completly imbalanaced. You spend a lot of time on crafting/getting big guns and ammo for them, getting good armor and guy with cheap ass SG can kill you...

[Sius]

Yeah guys but don't go too much offtopic here please. This thread is not about balancing but its more or less only about new features for all kinds of weapons. Balancing them is chapter for itself and when you take almost every other MMO then balancing is the main issue with every single patch no matter how new/old the game is. So I don't expect devs to make everything work in next patch, cause its simply all linked together and there is nothing like easy balancing.

I'm just suggesting to add "point-shoot" feature with some "oh shit thats not torso!" stuff too and some small boost for SG (as they should be more common weaponry and easy to handle. So don't go too much into details of current balance problems, this is not the topic for that. Thanks.

[FischiPiSti]

What do you expect? SG are most common weapons so they should be weakest.
Now you can kill people in combat armors with minigun by using only hunting rifle and leather jacket. This is completly imbalanaced. You spend a lot of time on crafting/getting big guns and ammo for them, getting good armor and guy with cheap ass SG can kill you...

Wow, im surprised you didnt bring up the minigun should pwn unarmed blue suits debate.

Same skillpoint requirements means different weapons-categorys or fighting styles should be balanced in some way, let that be range, damage, giving bonuses to survivability(+DR/+sneak), whatever, because...... ITS A GAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

Or...Ok, lets have it your way. Remove SG, EW, Throwing, unarmed, melee, sneak, speech, barter, gambling, ........ alltogether, BUT keep repair and science for crafter alts. Now everything will be perfectly balanced because every men, women and child, even their dogs are going to fire rockets from their asses.

On topik: IMO currently SG/EW has advantage because of range, and aimed crits, and thats the way it should be, because BG will defeat SG in medium range, and thats prefectly fine.
BTW Ubi has a point there

[Drakonis]

acutally BG defeat SG even on long range, duh :/(thanks to 2 fast bursts before somebody can make an aimed shot)

[Sius]

Guys witch part of:

I'm just suggesting to add "point-shoot" feature with some "oh shit thats not torso!" stuff too and some small boost for SG (as they should be more common weaponry and easy to handle. So don't go too much into details of current balance problems, this is not the topic for that. Thanks.

You did not understand? This is not balance topic. Its suggestion to add some more spice, tactics and a bit of "luck" element into the game so balance discussion IS NOT AN ISSUE HERE. I know how such topics end so please stop killing my suggestion with your balance comments and let developers to handle that.

[RJ]

@up

Sius is pretty much right.

@others up

acutally BG defeat SG even on long range, duh :/(thanks to 2 fast bursts before somebody can make an aimed shot)

It's a lie. You don't fight too much, do you?

Wow, im surprised you didnt bring up the minigun should pwn unarmed blue suits debate.

Of course it should. I am saying that as SG and BG user.

If you want to continue this discussion let's make another topic and I shall prove that SG are superior to BG.

[avv]

But wouldn't this just encourage people to spend huge ammount of points in weapons skills and PE to be as accurate as possible?

[Sius]

But wouldn't this just encourage people to spend huge ammount of points in weapons skills and PE to be as accurate as possible?

Well there is some line between character boost and skillpoint waste. So when you cross the point when you have maxed your "optimal fire range accuracy" (aka current weapon fire range) and you would keep spending skillpoints then the effect should be almost insignificant in real combat. Simply with optimal fire range maxed you would get like +X hexes where you have some small chance to still hit and deal dmg. But even with +50% over optimal range maximum it would add only few hexes in addition.
So in the end yes, some mad snipers could sacrifice everything just to get +3% to hit at "base range+x" but that would leave them with default fa/doc/outdoor and for example BG combat builds should not care about possibility to deal 5-20 dmg at long range, when they have their stable range in which they are deadly + they can fa themselves every 2 min.

[Misiolap]

Same skillpoint requirements means different weapons-categorys or fighting styles should be balanced in some way, let that be range, damage, giving bonuses to survivability(+DR/+sneak), whatever, because...... ITS A GAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

The balance is also achieved by the cost of using a weapon.

Small Guns as more economic class should not be as powerful big guns which uses a lot more ammo.

[Drakonis]

@up

Sius is pretty much right.

@others up

It's a lie. You don't fight too much, do you?

Of course it should. I am saying that as SG and BG user.

If you want to continue this discussion let's make another topic and I shall prove that SG are superior to BG.

haven't pvp in 5 months haha . anything changed there? Now people use aim bots to shot faster than 1 click burst from BG or what?