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Sniper rifle.

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T-888:

--- Quote from: Johnnybravo on August 04, 2012, 11:19:20 pm ---Items are thing that works, but it was always supposed to increase the movement distance over turn, you are NOT getting that. That means it is broken. Even more so, because there is an option to play the game so that it works - totally killing any consistency.

--- End quote ---

Real time involves the same turns, you just experience them differently, because of that action point regeneration management is upside down the advantage is still there, but you just don't see it the same way. Character can be in motion always, be fluid as real time itself, but you aren't able to act once you drained your action points, AP has the same purpose as in turn base you just experience its effect differently.

In order to regenerate action points you have to be motionless, witch in practice let's a character with higher action points move farther before they can act, do the same action in the same time as a character with less action points who accordingly would be motionless at the same period of time the opponent would move allowing to accumulate only the same amount of action points in order to act at the same time, but not move because in that case the character with lower AP would accumulate less AP if both characters started to move at the same time before accumulating action points for a certain period of time.

Each player has its own time to do his turn before he can act again, the only difference is that all players can act at the same time because human reaction isn't simulated by sequence, encounters includes bots witch of course have superior reaction time to what the player human has, so that's why you feel punished for that. They spend and manage action points more effectively when it comes to speed, they begin to be motionless much quicker when they need to accumulate AP. There are no reaction flaws involved when it comes to npc's.

CBT - Continuous Turn Based mode = RT - Real Time mode

Johnnybravo:
The situation does not work when both of you move.
This can be best presented if you drop the idea of how long you sit on the place, and imagine that you constantly regenerate AP, and moving consumes it (as it should).
Now if you were running with 14AP max, for 100 hexes, it'd take 8 turns in TB, for 10AP char it's obviously 10 turns. But right now both chars are there in exactly same time.
This basically means that 14AP char lost two turns. He instead should be able to get about 20AP advantage over 10AP char by the time they reach the destination, but this is not happening, the regen kicks in for both in same time, so the character with 14AP gains only 4AP advantage, despite the fact, they've both been spending 100AP to get in there.

The only way to make this working is either make movement really consume AP at the regeneration rate and thus allow people with surplus AP to move faster or at least regenerate this surplus while moving if the speed is supposed to be the same.

T-888:
Can't drop the idea about regenerating action points while being motionless, it's impossible because you aren't regenerating when running in either case your trying to present, your trying to invent a new wheel. Furthermore, it doesn't work that way in practice like your example, trading action points is undeniable in combat and a character with higher action points will be able to move farther whilst accumulating the same action point amount to act as a character with lower who won't be able to travel the same distance to act the same time, that's how the speed is managed in real time combat, combat, take notice that outside of it it's pointless how much faster you run, and that's the situation your presenting. Running in RT combat means that each second you are loosing action points witch are regenerated by the opponent, none has wasted action points? "The turn" hasn't begun, yet, until then it's irrelevant just like in original fallout games where real time outside of combat didn't grant you any actual movement speed, like in Fallout Tactics it was managed just like it's on 2238. The concept is solid, you just want to add another factor witch in my opinion isn't necessary, you want to amplify the existing advantage, don't see how it helps with balance, nor worth the effort. Characters with high action points have enough advantage and in practice most builds out there have almost the same amount of action points give or take. Snipers was the reason why we started to talk, and snipers aren't imbalanced or weak because they aren't able to take full potential of agility like you think it should be.


--- Quote from: Johnnybravo on August 06, 2012, 01:36:00 pm ---and imagine that you constantly regenerate AP, and moving consumes it (as it should).

--- End quote ---

Impossible like i said, unless ... regeneration speed exceeds the speed it decreases upon running, you get an effect like this. It will result either in decrease/increase of AP while moving depending on how fast it increases/decreases, can increase and decrease at the same time, it will give one of those effects and not both or none effect at all, middle ground. Currently it's absolute zero, you are regenerating action points at the same speed it decreases while running, so basically you are not regenerating action points while moving at all and not loosing them either.

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,19102.msg158763.html#msg158763

Not necessary after some time to think.

Johnnybravo:
No I don't want any amplification, I just want the game to be consistent and rules to be exact. The idea of sequence is never likely gonna make it, unless it's added as artificial lag. That's something that needs to be fixed in TB fights instead (for example they could use simultaneous turns to eliminate this), but this is borked in real time, working just fine in TB.
Combat is beyond exchanging shots, movement speed matters. Especially since it was one of the ways how could agile characters deal with bulky melees. Now you cannot ever outrun them, because you simply need to take the beating from them if you want to continue with your attacks. On other hand strong melee pests are virtually useless in RT, because they no longer retain their insane movement speed (eg. floaters, claws or aliens were quite deadly in SP games).

The choice between TB and RT should be purely on player habits, and should never be balance factor.


--- Quote ---Currently it's absolute zero, you are regenerating action points at the same speed it decreases while running, so basically you are not regenerating action points while moving at all and not loosing them either.
--- End quote ---
Which in result equals to using up all the regeneration for movement, that's absolutely fine, if you get more movement for higher regeneration, which is not the case however.

John Porno:

--- Quote from: Kelin on August 03, 2012, 03:38:42 pm ---They don't do damage often which means you can't use them alone, they always have to support some bigger group to KO or cripple enemies. I always played as damage sniper, that's why I think snipers are practically useless now.

--- End quote ---
this.
--- Quote from: T-888 on August 03, 2012, 04:09:58 pm ---I can actually argue about that, have you ever tried running around alone with a sniper in klamath? I haven't, but that could be fun. :) They sure aren't much of use in new reno, also they are pretty neat in TB what i heard from some, let's say experienced players.

--- End quote ---
I did that a lot in the first weeks/months after the update and it was awesome since everyone had 1lk builds. As soon people started to roll with 5lk and snipers were nerfed, they are pretty much useless alone.

In any case, BG got buffed tremendously, snipers virtually not at all.

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