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Yes, I like it

24 (58.5%)

With some changes but yes

7 (17.1%)

I don't know

3 (7.3%)

No, I don't like it

2 (4.9%)

Cooldowns are better

5 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 41

[Raengar]

Not with the FOnline engine in the actual state. Also keep in mind, the Arcanum worldmap was build in many small maps and then merged into one big. We can't do this kind of stuff already because of the limited graphic set. Except if you want to have whole west coast as one flat desert ground.

Um. Lexx, with all respect - What exactly is not possible for the engine in this suggestion? I did not suggest using one big map, rather my idea was to use those "exporable maps sius suggested to actually travel across wasteland - and also I had some tweaks to his original idea in mind... is it still not possible? or we just misunderstood each other somewhere? =)

[Lexx]

It's the same problem. We are capable of creating maps with 60.000x60.000 hex. To compare, Klamath now is approx 400x400 hex. But it's already a pain in the arse just to work with Klamath. I've tested out maps in a size of 2000x2000 some days ago and it was an even bigger pain in the arse, due to performance and overal lack of overview. And really, 2000x2000 is not yet the size that one of the worldmap zones would have.

Additionaly to this comes the graphic problem I've talked about already. Let's take Arcanum... there you have specific mountain walls, that can be used over and over again from _all_ perspectives. In Fallout, there is just front and thanks to modders, the side view. Nothing more. Thanks to this, you would either have to make new walls that don't look repitative or just don't use any mountain walls, which brings me to the next point: The world is flat. Very flat. Not even the real desert is as flat. In smaller maps, like we got 'em now, this problem is more or less not existing, as you never see a really big part of the desert.

Another point is the encounter system. If every zone would be one map and you travel over the worldmap, while you get an encounter, the game doesn't know where you should spawn in the map. So it's either a totally random point or specific points which would be always the same then. Very hard to realize a good effect here.

Also you would most probably be faster with travelling manually from zone to zone than using "fast travel" via worldmap. Always depending on the zone map size and the obstacles in it.

Last but not least, the zones. We have approx 2419 zones. Okay, a lot of them are water zones, but still... Imagine just 1000 zones, this would mean 1000 maps (if you really want to go into detail). All these maps have to be huge, so they will need a lot space, so they will need a lot memory. Also it's very hard to build 1000 maps and _not_ make them look repitative. :>

So to say... the idea is heroic, but very unlikely to ever get done, if one would start such a thing.


I know, I am the destroyer of dreams.

[Badger]

I like the search > reward idea.

Seeing as the biggest contribution people want to make is to make maps, this'd be a great way to channel that.

So everybody produces some interesting maps - abandoned gas stations, diners, caves, pre war bunkers, schools, hospitals, department stores, bars - all of which are abandoned and ripe for scavenging. If we just got ten people to make five maps each, 50 maps would be enough to keep things feeling fresh for a quite a while.

They might be totally empty, overrun with rats, overrun with raiders, or just occupied by friendly squatters. Here would be the primary source of crafting materials, as well as various other items - useful or just junk to sell. The items would spawn randomly - either on floors, in containers, or on the bodies of the occupiers.

Is it possible to have a random item spawning system?

Mechanics wise, I'd suggest you use the same system as special encounters.

The items in the location would be proportional to the place in the worldmap. Klamath has the safest random "scavenging areas" but also the crappiest stuff. The Boneyard has great stuff, but is also very dangerous.

[Sius]

As I've noted in cons its not a one week task. Anyway I've thought about "map square linked together" idea too but it felt somehow strange so I sticked with search -> find instead. So what it does is pretty much same thing as we have now in encounters but its player triggered and a lot more complex. So encounters (current random encounters) are simply hardcoded maps with random events taking place on them right? So we have X encounter maps, that we can see while we are traveling over desert, Y for mountain areas, Z for coasts etc...

So taking it into whole new level means working with more hexes (pain in the ass BUT possible) and with random effect. I don't know how these effects work but I'm pretty sure that engine is already capable of everything that we need to get huge maps working. Getting map itself randomized is something that will require some heavy coding but most of all someone insane enough to try such thing. So that will leave us with hardcoded maps for now. And into such maps we will have to somehow manage to implement randomized events like:
- spawn points for resources
- NPCs and their behavior (so even in same map with same NPCs on same places they could act differently)
- items and additional scavenger loot
- maybe even some small events (slave running from his slaver begs for help: a) you help him he tells you his former master looked for some "treasure" here b) you stop him, slaver gives you some cash c) you ignore them d) you "undo" both of them, you are here for experiences for Christ sakes! and so one)

Also these maps should have different entrance points so people could get into same one without even knowing they are not alone. That could be done by random encounters so someone from world map enters already created map where he as the one who gets random encounter spawns at upper right corner with some NPCs attacking him, but at the other end of the map someone would be happily farming stuff. Or when you try to enter map by world/town you will have chance to get into the same location as people who are already in such map and on same world map square.

Anyway if this gets into the process and devs start to working on such feature there are 2 major drawbacks. Maps size with the need for not-boring-maps-worth-exploring is the mapping related drawback. The second thing is graphic content so the dessert will not look flat. Anyway I think there could be some nice maps done even with current game content. But it would require some deeper thoughts, plans and sketches to be done before some actual work starts.
But it would be nice to know how many encounter maps are there right now. How many for certain environments like desert, mountains, cities etc...

[Lexx]

I just can say, that it's very unlikely to see something like this in 2238. But well, as soon as the server files are released, the way is open for other teams to try it. I would like to see how it works out in the end, but for sure, this will need a lot time and work. I don't know, maybe it would be better to do something else then directly from the beginning.

[Sius]

 

Is it the idea that has flaws or is it because of technical reasons? I would like to know whats yours and other devs opinion on it (we already know who voted for cooldowns ).

[avv]

http://www.deadfrontier.com/

That's a pretty cool zombie-related browser based game. It basically has one bigass city full of zombies and loot. The city is divided in blocks so that when player walk towards the border of that block, he switches area. It works pretty well, but has a bit too much walking for my taste.

[Badger]

What about adding scavenging? Is that deemed worth considering?

I'd argue that it would be the 'active' way to get crafting materials that people seem to want. It requires the player's attention and active participation, but also rewards them with more than just the crafting materials if they're thorough.

It encourages teamwork - some places will obviously have too many enemies for one person.

If a little more work was put into it, it would also require diversity in character builds. If you want to start up an elevator, you'll need someone with repair. If you want to talk squatters into letting you have a look around, you'll need speech. If you want to make use of the medical terminal, you'll need a doctor. So on, and so forth. Hell, you could even have the odd place that will give you hefty rewards if you've taken traps or gambling.

[avv]

What about adding scavenging? Is that deemed worth considering?

What do you mean by scavenging? Getting random loot from gathering locations? It would rock too. People could not farm specific things, but they would have to search a bit and then keep what they need and sell the rest.

It's always bothered me a bit that why do we go whack some stones when the world is full of scrap metal.

[Raengar]

You still dig iron ore? sucks to be you =)


Only Minerals are worth digging, perioud =)

[Badger]

What do you mean by scavenging? Getting random loot from gathering locations? It would rock too. People could not farm specific things, but they would have to search a bit and then keep what they need and sell the rest.

It's always bothered me a bit that why do we go whack some stones when the world is full of scrap metal.

Yeah, basically. As well as random encounters there are random locations, such as bars. These contain the crafting materials, like ore, randomly placed either on the ground or in containers. There's also other stuff that can be looted or may need to be stolen from the NPC occupants. That kind of thing.

[Tyler]

Scavenging was brought up in the TLA thread too and i mentioned it a while back after I spent a couple of months playing on the russian server.After a while a couple of the more friendly russians who spoke english took me around and showed me all these places around the map that contained different items.What type of items you found depends on where in the world you were at the time.I found gas stations near Reno with junk and metal parts,farms near Modoc with hides and fruits,forested areas near Broken Hills with a shack contianing a knife and some fibers for rope.I enjoyed looking for things and exploring the map for hidden materials,it gave me a reason to leave the towns even though i knew i might die.This is kinda like what Sius is suggesting except the maps were no larger than any we have here for encounters now.They even had maps with manholes that led to sewers filled with molerats that were a bit tougher to kill on your own,but if you managed to beat them you could find 3 or 4 useful crafting items.I would personally love to see this in 2238 as an alternative to mining and looking for plants.

[bipboy]

yeah, people have already explore caves and harvesting ripper/small guns from those cave dwellers. The only thing we need is to have raw material/more stuff/critter/maps/small repeatable quests from those encounter maps. So no fundamental change to the current encounter map mechanism.

Also check out this thread
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1891.0

[Sius]

Well PvE pretty much does not exist right now. But encounter maps could also introduce group "dungeons". Just imagine it!

***

Guys I'm up for some ore runs. Anyone coming with me? Count me in. Only one? Hmm OK, lets go.
/ 10 minutes later:
Ok m8, I'll search this part, you search yours but keep it close. I don't want to die from those stupid slavers like last time got it?! Ok so lets get busy...
/ few moments later:
You might wanna take a look at this! What? WTF?! Man lets check it out! Yeah!
Shit there is nothing down here. Hmm too bad. But have you checked that elevator? Sure I did. Its broken. Never mind lets get back.
Hey check that description when you want to use it. We might be able to get it running! Whats your repair and science? Damn it! I have my fight char here. I really hope you have radio on you...
/ later on that day:
Ok ok I'm here. Yeah, finally. Whats your problem? I have more important things to do than hang around with you two so whats the deal? Erm... fix that elevator. What? Fix that elevator... please? And how am I supposed to do that?! Dunno just try repair or science on it. Oh god, thats what I get for listening to you. OMG just do it! Ok ok, here we go...
Oh shit! It worked! Sweet! How does it come, that its still not moving? We have to power it up dumbass! Go check that terminal up there. Consider it done.
/ few seconds later:
Give it a try now. We are ready to go!
/ moment later, few meters under ground:
Woho! Thats it? Just a cave? Man Vault 13 is in the cave as pretty much any vault. Lets search this place. Hey guys whats that? Whats what? Dunno something is there in those shadows. Its probably nothing but we are already here so. I'm going to check it out. Me too.
Guys its dead end here, did you find anything? Guys? Can anyone hear me? We are wasting our time here so don't make me go there and drag your sorry asses out of here! I need my materials omg! Where are you you idi... OH F*** WANAMIN... . . . .

[Badger]

Well PvE pretty much does not exist right now. But encounter maps could also introduce group "dungeons". Just imagine it!

I hope to get the part of 'Red Guy' in the film adaptation. That was fun to read.