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Yes.

19 (57.6%)

No.

10 (30.3%)

Critical burs- uhm ... what?

4 (12.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

[Johnny One Hex]

Johnny One Hex , youre totally wrong about mechanics and also we dont give a fuck about bs getting lazored.

Lets face it, even if the chance to bypass is 0.01%, it will happen and youll be damn pissed if that happens to you. So either completely remove bypasses or make them a lot weaker (frequency has nothing to do with them imo)

Here you go read this thank you. It has happened to me plenty of times to me and it was worse before this update. Its bull shit yes but there is a mechanic and math behind this and not "oh my godz criticalz I have 10 luck why diz happun itz must be bugz and abuse!?."

http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables

The table is differnt in this game but that is the basics of how these things work. There is nothing changed about this mechanics just numbers. And all we know is that its x3 for a 100+ crit roll and now we know that it has chance to bypass. Gee these critical thingies sure are complicated! We have -crit modifiers on armors and perks for defense agiasnt criticals. Take man of steel +10 critical defense, attacks well crit roll lower on your character, solution who would have thunk it?

[T-888]

There is nothing changed about this mechanics just numbers.

How do you know that? Do you develop this game?

Date Registered:
    Today at 06:26:07 pm

Man you are so experienced, we should listen to you and rely on your extensive knowledge of the game.

And all we know is that its x3 for a 100+ crit roll and now we know that it has chance to bypass.

Simple logic, a developer showed a chart where it clearly shows that there is 0% chance to get bypassed if you have 10 luck, roll has no effect for bypassed torso shots.

[Johnny One Hex]

How do you know that? Do you develop this game?

Date Registered:
    Today at 06:26:07 pm

Man you are so experienced, we should listen to you and rely on your extensive knowledge of the game.

Without going into technical details, if you do a critical shot on a human and you didn't aim any body part, the damage will be slightly lower now than before (for example damage*3 not damage*4).

I am somebody has been here for a while I am just using a sock puppet account because I want to post and not wait for my reply to come up and nobody read it when the threads goes 10 pages.

But you always do this T-888 I try to explain from my knowledge stand point even to you as an enemy of my faction and you say basically STFU noob you know nothing. You always do this and wonder why nobody likes you. Time to register a new account because I'll probably get blocked agian as usual for posting this.

[Sarakin]

Then it seems youre either not wanted here, or youre afraid to show your real identity. How can we discuss something with you, if were not sure how much experience you got ?

[T-888]

I am somebody has been here for a while I am just using a sock puppet account because I want to post and not wait for my reply to come up and nobody read it when the threads goes 10 pages.

Does it say something about roll affecting bypass? I will start showing random quotes for some mechanics too hoping it will prove my point, though i'm not sure what are you even talking about.

[Johnny One Hex]

Does it say something about roll affecting bypass? I will start showing random quotes for some mechanics too hoping it will prove my point, though i'm not sure what are you even talking about.

Well if I am completely wrong then I would like to know where I am wrong in my understanding of criticals. But yes lower luck does = well get bypassed more often than having more luck that is what started this yes? But critical bypasses are going to happen no matter what your luck is.

You can defend agiasnt these type of critical rolls with man of steel it well lower a persons critical roll on your character so instead of x3 damage it might only do x1.5 with man of steel or some shit. Not every critical on the table is a bypass, I would assume the bypass would be with a higher roll, so defenses like man of steel in theory should not cause somebody to roll bypasses on you with a critical burster unless you have lower luck as you stated. Maybe 1 luck man of steel may prevent these bypasses now I have not tested it but its my theory from my understanding of this game

 10 or 1 a bypass is a bypass, but 1 luck well cause more bypasses to happen, I am not argueing that. Point I was making unless the gattling laser damage gets lowered on blue suits or some how blue suits get laser resist they are going to bypass for 600 damage.

[T-888]

Well if I am completely wrong then I would like to know where I am wrong in my understanding of criticals. But yes lower luck does = well get bypassed more often than having more luck that is what started this yes? But critical bypasses are going to happen no matter what your luck is.

Does this guy just came here to troll me?

False, incorrect, wrong, go try and test it out, better just go play the game.

[Johnny One Hex]

Does this guy just came here to troll me?

False, incorrect, wrong, go try and test it out, better just go play the game.

Then how does this work Mr. Know it all? Please do tell if you do not explain then I well assume ignorance.

[avv]

There's a reduction of critical power modifier on armors already, for CA it's 10% and it applies to all critical hits, bypass with 20% or without, it's going to be a insta kill. Better to just alter the frequency of them.

But critbursters all have spray and pray.

Even if you decrease the frequency of the bypasses, gatling laser will surely instakill everyone with bypass and likely will 3brd avenger and m60 aswell. It'd be better for gameplay to get rid of instakills, no matter how rare they are.

[Johnny One Hex]

But critbursters all have spray and pray.

Even if you decrease the frequency of the bypasses, gatling laser will surely instakill everyone with bypass and likely will 3brd avenger and m60 aswell. It'd be better for gameplay to get rid of instakills, no matter how rare they are.

But spray n pray ignores armor crit modifier, man of steel gives an extra +10 crit defense and doesn't count as armor. This could be a viable solution to this problem.

[T-888]

Tests, reading forum, confirming information by tests and actual in game experience.

Silent death was popular once with plasma grenades, i assume you know that. I realized sneakers never did a bypass on 10 luck characters, also a developer that makes this game showed a chart where it's clearly shown that with 10 luck it's 0%. Now why are you trying to force unconfirmed info as some truth? Have doubts? I assure you, you can go clear them with making simple tests that the chance to get bypassed is none existent with a character that has 10 luck, that is only for torso shots, for all other body parts it's different because characters with 10 luck get bypassed in all other body parts, values shown in the charts are equivalent to what it's in game.

I'll be damned.

But critbursters all have spray and pray.

Even if you decrease the frequency of the bypasses, gatling laser will surely instakill everyone with bypass and likely will 3brd avenger and m60 aswell. It'd be better for gameplay to get rid of instakills, no matter how rare they are.

There is critical chance modifier and critical power modifier, as far as i know spray and pray reduces only chance modifier.

The values i suggested make it possible to gain close to an immunity from bypasses, you invest points into luck and profit, choices and consequences(6 luck for immunity, just like the same requirement for perks previous session). No matter if it's a bypass from gatling gun, minigun, light support weapon, m60 that's going to be an insta-kill.

As i said, remove bypass protection from luck entirely = new dump-stat, no consequences. Is that supposed to be better?

[Johnny One Hex]

I think you just want to make power big gunner without conquences, you take lower luck face the conquences its balance. I think it was better when bonus range damage required 6 luck. But basically you want less bypasses with 1 luck, or suggesting to throw this away entirely so you can get your 240-280 hp x2 burst 3brd and not have any weaknesses.

This is like saying I think I should have 100 carry weight no matter what my strength is or it should be 50 hex sight no matter what my perception is.

[T-888]

I think you just want to make power big gunner without conquences, you take lower luck face the conquences its balance. I think it was better when bonus range damage required 6 luck. But basically you want lower bypasses with 1 luck, or suggesting to throw this away entirely so you can get your 240-280 hp x2 burst 3brd and not have any weaknesses.

are you kidding me?

I was thinking about the actual values, somehow i ended up with those numbers and the reason for them i think is because i support the choice and consequence principle, upon lowering a stat to a certain level it should leave you with a disadvantage, in this case lower bypass protection. Though i think the gap is too high at the moment as many builds just hardly benefits from luck, except the bypass chance. I wanted the values to mirror a state where the player character doesn't feel all too much punished for low luck, but at the same time make it worth while to increase it by few points gaining close to an immunity, whether in comparison with current 60% with 1 luck or 30% with 5 (in both cases just unreasonable).

[Roachor]

IMO only sniper builds(aimed shots) should be able to bypass, they depend on crits to deal dmg where burst weapons are supposed to be regular, reliably high amounts of dmg.

[Spotty]

Maybe there is something i haven't thought about, so if someone has some ideas, i'm all ears.

How about keeping current system as it is, and adding a new benefit to luck?
Luck*5=damage reduced in %

Say a laser gatling smacks you for 400 crit bypass, you got 1 luck and get 20 points less damage, still die.
5 luck? 100 points off, 3 lifegivers and you can be stimmed back to health.
7 luck, 140 points off, 2 lifegivers can be stimmed back, 3 lifegivers stim themselves.
Take Dead Man Walking and your chances improve a bit more.

I think of this as implemented vs crits in all its forms, but added vs all damage, could make fights longer, low HP PvP like snipers with 10 luck could survive a bit longer with crit bypass protection and 50% damage reduction.